mach3 wont reset keeps saying external emg stop requested

[Geoff57]

my boxford 250 cnc lathe running on mach3 running ok yesterday fired it up today mach3 turn wont reset getting a message external emg stop requested checked switch all seems to be ok iam a machinist not a electronics expert any pointers as what to check
thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

Do the drives turn on.? It's difficult to help without knowing how it's wired so what I'm trying to determine is if the e-stop is hard-wired and running through a relay that controls the whole system and then just sends a message to Mach3 that E-stop happened. Or if it's wired directly to the controller, in which case if the switch is ok it should reset.

If it's hard wired through a relay then you could have a dead relay or blown fuse which is stopping it power up so mach3 won't get the OK and won't reset. But also the drives won't power up or will power up so easy to spot.
A safe system would use such a setup and it fits with mach3 not coming out of reset if the E-stop switch is ok.

The other thing it could be is a broken wire on the E-stop loop so even thou the switch is ok the signal is still not getting thru. Check the E-stop loop at the BOB with a meter for continuity.

But Like I say it's difficult to tell you where to look without knowing more about how it's wired.

I presumed you've tried this but just in case close down the computer and restart. Not just Mach3. If you are using a parallel port then check the cable hasn't come out as well because mach3 could see this as charge pump failure and E-stop.

[Geoff57]

thanks for the reply
all the electronics and computer are in the back of the machine when i sited the machine it is against the workshop wall i knew i would need accesses so it means removing the metal shed outside wall and two ton of crap stacked against it will let you no how i get on
Geoff

[Geoff57]

now the weather is find and we are in lockdown i have moved all the crap and taken back wall of the shed out to get to the electrics please see pictures cant see any fuses and two relays
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two of the black boxes have leds showing green the other box does not have leds on it
thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

Tell us exactly what's happening or not, please.

How do you normally start up the machine.? Step by step, so I can get an idea of how it might be wired.

[Geoff57]

hi Jazz thanks for the reply
first off a lot of the setting up and homing is done with a play station controller
the start up sequence is as followers
switch on 240 at the wall socket
switch on playstation
switch on computer remote button on front control panel of lathe
click mach 3 loader
current profile mach 3 click ok
mach 3 screen
all fires up computer side but cant reset emg stop so icant move forward on homing machine etc
hope this helps thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

Erm ok well the PlayStation controller and it's plug-in is a prime suspect because it probably handles the E-stop as well, but I've never used one so not sure on that.
If it was me I'd be disabling the PS controller plug-in to verify it's not this.

However, try this first and see if you get movement. Go into ports n pins then Inputs and look for E-stop. Change the Active Low to the opposite of what it's set to now. ie If a tick toggles it to an (X).

This is basically by-passing the E-stop and tricking Mach3 into thinking it's working, so be careful because you effectively haven't got a E-stop.

If this works then it's either something on the E-stop wiring (or the BOB as blown an Input) or the PS controller or it's Plug-in are broken.

Without knowing a little more about wiring and you tracing wires etc then it's hard to say for certain.

[Geoff57]

thanks jazz will try this tomorrow not a fan of the play station control but thats what it came with
thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

thanks jazz will try this tomorrow not a fan of the play station control but thats what it came with
thanks Geoff

You don't have to use the PS controller it's just another method of operating the machine for jogging etc, rather than using the keyboard. It could be disconnected and just use the keyboard to jog etc.

[Geoff57]

morning Jazz hope you are well
i disabled the ps controller with no change
next i bypassed the es now i can move the machine but the homing switch normally light up when i tried to home they are not working i ran a simple prog it ran ok put spindle will not run even tried mdi
thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

Ok regards the PS controller that's about what I expected because it's just software driven and your problem is hardwired. So, unfortunately, you are going to have to do a bit of detective work and start tracing wires.

Now because the Home SW doesn't work and Spindle won't start I'm thinking your problem could be the BOB(breakout board) and it's I/O (input/outputs).
Looking at the pictures I'm pretty sure this breakout board needs a separate voltage source for the I/O to work. The pictures also show 2 PSU, the smaller one will be the low voltage for this and the relays, etc, the large one for the drives. So first check you are getting power out of the smaller PSU, it's probably 12 or 24Vdc.
and that it's getting to the breakout board.

To be honest I'm quite confident your problem lies here with the voltage to the I/O but if you are getting voltage to the BOB then I'd 99% say your BOB is dead. But it's always worth tracing wires for damage or loose connections.

After this I can't be much more help without being infront of the machine.

EDIT: The two middle connectors on this block is were you need to test for voltage. 3rd from end near USB is Gnd and 4th is Vcc.

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[Geoff57]

hi Jazz
is the BOB, in my second picture the board in the middle i noticed today there is a red led lit up
sorry but what is PSU i have a multimeter so i can check voltages
Geoff

[Clive S]

hi Jazz
is the BOB, in my second picture the board in the middle i noticed today there is a red led lit up
sorry but what is PSU i have a multimeter so i can check voltages
Geoff

PSU = power supply. Also check if you have 5V as it seems you have a usb providing that and some usb's don't supply enough current.

As Jazz says you need to supply the bob with two sources on power ie 5V and another somewhere about 12-24V where Jazz indicated on the picture

Edit: do you actually have a 5v power supply in there because if you do you don't need the USB cable connected

[JAZZCNC]

hi Jazz
is the BOB, in my second picture the board in the middle i noticed today there is a red led lit up
sorry but what is PSU i have a multimeter so i can check voltages
Geoff

Yes Geoff, PSU = power supply unit. It will be the small one in this picture and test the V++ V-- highlighted in pic. The PSU will probably have sticker telling you the voltage Output. 12 or 24Vdc

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Edit: Opp's didn't see Clive beat me to it, same as what he said...Lol

[dazp1976]

I have the same board matey.
Do you have a 12v-24v supply in there?

These boards limits, probe, spindle and e stop are supplied seperately on these to keep the inputs isolated on the 5v.
You need a 12v-24v to supply all of the above.

It's on the right in the picture:
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[dazp1976]

I have the same board matey.
Do you have a 12v-24v supply in there?

These boards limits, probe, spindle and e stop are supplied seperately to keep the inputs isolated on the 5v.
You need a 12v-24v to supply all of the above.

It's on the right in the picture:
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[Geoff57]

morning all
on the two psu s there is a green led on the larger unit it is lit up on the smaller unit it is not, does this mean the unit is dead ?
thanks Geoff

[Clive S]

morning all
on the two psu s there is a green led on the larger unit it is lit up on the smaller unit it is not, does this mean the unit is dead ?
thanks Geoff

Geoff. Do you have a DVM ? a meter to test the voltage AC and DC . If so can you check what voltage you are getting from each PSU on the DC terminals.

The smaller PSU should be putting out about 12-24V if it is not doing so then you need to check if it is getting 230V AC on the input. There may be a loose connection or a fuse blown.

[Geoff57]

hi Clive
yes i have dvm i assume L N are 240 volt but how do i check the v- v+ do i put the black probe on v- and red on v+ sorry im not up on electronics
thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

morning all
on the two psu s there is a green led on the larger unit it is lit up on the smaller unit it is not, does this mean the unit is dead ?
thanks Geoff

Ok, then you have found the source of your problem. If the small PSU as a fuse checks this, also check wires are not loose(do this with power off). If not fuse or wires then it's dead.
To replace you will need to find what power output it was giving you. The BOB will take between 12-24Vdc but it could also have been powering things like relays so it's important to know the output and replace with the same size. Looking at the relays in the box I'd guess it's 12Vdc because they look like Automotive relays which will be 12Vdc.

[JAZZCNC]

hi Clive
yes i have dvm i assume L N are 240 volt but how do i check the v- v+ do i put the black probe on v- and red on v+ sorry im not up on electronics
thanks Geoff

Yes Geoff black on V- Red on V+ but you'll need to change the meter from reading AC to DC.

[Geoff57]

Jazz thanks for that i will go out to the shop and check these yes the relays come from VW

[Geoff57]

ok i have 240v going in but nothing on the output so it looks like the unit is dead goes with the led not lighting up out of interest what normal goes on these psu
once again many thanks for your help Geoff

[Clive S]

hi Clive
yes i have dvm i assume L N are 240 volt but how do i check the v- v+ do i put the black probe on v- and red on v+ sorry im not up on electronics
thanks Geoff

Yes. If you get them the wrong way round it will just measure -ve. make sure the meter is set to DC and AC for the mains side. Be careful .

Edit: I had not refreshed by browser so didn't see Jazz post.. Just to make sure that there is not a short on the output make a good pic. and remove all the wires on the DC side and check again.

[JAZZCNC]

ok i have 240v going in but nothing on the output so it looks like the unit is dead goes with the led not lighting up out of interest what normal goes on these psu
once again many thanks for your help Geoff

I'm not that deep into the electronics of how PSU works but it's worth taking out to see if it's got a fuse built into it. After that, I'd just buy another for sake of £10-15 quid.

[Geoff57]

hi Jazz
i will check to see if there is a fuse but something must have blown as you say might just as well get a new one at that price will let you know how i get on
Geoff

[Geoff57]

no fuse inside going to buy a new one looking on ebay there a loads of then could one of you good gentlemen point me in the right replacement see pics

Geoff
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[Geoff57]

no fuse inside going to buy a new one looking on ebay there a loads of then could one of you good gentlemen point me in the right replacement see pics

Geoff
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[Clive S]

no fuse inside going to buy a new one looking on ebay there a loads of then could one of you good gentlemen point me in the right replacement see pics

Geoff
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Here you go:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-3-3V-5V-9V-12V-18V-24V-36V-48V-Universal-PSU-DC/151886747221?hash=item235d27d655:m:mw6z29sNgNrg9qr 7WY2EZng

[dazp1976]

no fuse inside going to buy a new one looking on ebay there a loads of then could one of you good gentlemen point me in the right replacement see pics

Geoff



May be worth going for a bigger wattage. These don't fail very often imo. See how much is connected to it.
Mine only powers the 12v-24v part of my BOB and that's it, but I still stuck a 24v-60w on there. I can always get a step down unit if I ever need to add a 12v line.

So with yours being a 12v as long as you get the same voltage unit a bigger current and wattage rating won't matter.

[dazp1976]

Here you go:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-3-3V-5V-9V-12V-18V-24V-36V-48V-Universal-PSU-DC/151886747221?hash=item235d27d655:m:mw6z29sNgNrg9qr 7WY2EZng

I'd get the 12v -6.5A -78w one myself. May as well for the extra few pennies. Gives you the option to add stuff.
My control box has got 60v, 36v, 24v & 5v in there!!!! If/when I need 12v I'll get a step down unit from my 24v. It's looking a bit ugh with psu's :nightmare:

[Clive S]

Sorry I just don't see the point.
all you are doing is just burning electricity up and putting heat into to the control box

[JAZZCNC]

I'd get the 12v -6.5A -78w one myself. May as well for the extra few pennies. Gives you the option to add stuff.
My control box has got 60v, 36v, 24v & 5v in there!!!! If/when I need 12v I'll get a step down unit from my 24v. It's looking a bit ugh with psu's :nightmare:

Why so many.? . . . You are just melting down the other electrics and heating the planet with all that wasted electricity.!

Regards a larger PSU for Geoff then he's only controlling a few relays and the BOB, He'll be lucky if pulling 1A total so he's still got 2.5A spare with 40W 3.5A PSU.

Geoff go with Clive's suggestion the 36W will be fine.

[dazp1976]

Why so many.? . . . You are just melting down the other electrics and heating the planet with all that wasted electricity.!

Regards a larger PSU for Geoff then he's only controlling a few relays and the BOB, He'll be lucky if pulling 1A total so he's still got 2.5A spare with 40W 3.5A PSU.

Geoff go with Clive's suggestion the 36W will be fine.

They only use what they need.
60v for the Nema 34's.
36v for the Nema 23's. (Although I now know they could probarbly go on the 60v fine).
24v for BoB spindle, estop, limits.
5v for the BoB pul/dir etc and SSR relays.

It's been added to over time and I'm still learning. In reality I could ditch the 36v as suggested above and also ditch the 5v by using a step down module from the 24v for the needed 5v. Only recently realised they existed lol. I'll wait until they fail and re-jig it all later on. That's why I got the larger than needed 24v supply for when this change occurs.

[Geoff57]

thanks everyone for your help and advice great forum ordered a psu today i will let you know how i get on
when it arrives and i have installed it in, the current situation we are all in it may be a while before i receive it
thanks again stay save thanks Geoff

[cropwell]

Just a note that automotive relay coils generally take a lot of current compared with GP electronics ones. I haven't looked at your wiring, but I wouldn't use oneanywhere but on a vehicle.

[Clive S]

Just a note that automotive relay coils generally take a lot of current compared with GP electronics ones. I haven't looked at your wiring, but I wouldn't use oneanywhere but on a vehicle.

Plus one :thumsup:

[Kitwn]

My controller has -3.3V, -5.0V, -12V, +3.3V, +5.0V, +12V, +24V and +36V supplies available so I win!!


There seems to be some misunderstanding in the last few posts about the significance of current/power rating of supplies. To clarify...

If you install a 12V supply rated at120W then the unit CAN deliver a current up to 10 Amps but in practice will deliver the current required by the load. If that is only 1A, the supply will deliver 1A. This is a power of 12 Watts. The power drawn from the 240V mains will be 12W divided by the efficiency of the supply. Switch mode supplies like the ones in the photographs typically have an efficiency around 85% so you will draw 12/0.85 Watts from the mains, about 14W. That gives 2W of waste heat.

If you decide to install a 12V supply rated at 240W instead, the maximum current it can supply rises to 20A. ALL the following results, including electricity used and waste heat stay the same. The only changes are that the supply will be physically bigger and cost more.

[Doddy]

Trying not to stray too far off topic, and knowing we have SMPSU engineers in here who could wipe the floor with me. Whilst Kitwn is almost completely correct in what he's saying I'd also throw in that voltage regulation can be compromised, particularly with poor design (for that read "cheap") if the presented load is completely inappropriate for the PSU rating.

The conversation about efficiency - the SMPSU efficiency would be measured at a given load - maybe 100%, maybe 80%. The efficiency at low % loads will be horrendous (consider that off load the efficiency tends towards 0). It'd be worth considering the efficiency under load and rule-of-thumb and assume that this is the worst-case thermal load and budget for that in your design.

All I'd say is that AS WELL as cost and size, I'd consider whether a PSU rating is appropriate using a wet fingered order-of-magnitude approximation - I would avoid a 1kW design for a 1W load. I'd be happy to use 1kW for something that could be expected to draw a couple of hundred watts. Common sense applies.

[Kitwn]

Doddy,
Agree with everything you've said. Though common sense isn't as common as we'd like it to be!

I was concerned that some readers trying to grapple with this stuff for the first time could get the impression that a 75W supply will waste a s**tload more power than a 40W one in the same real-world application. This just isn't the case.

[JAZZCNC]

If you decide to install a 12V supply rated at 240W instead, the maximum current it can supply rises to 20A. ALL the following results, including electricity used and waste heat stay the same. The only changes are that the supply will be physically bigger and cost more.

There is NO misunderstanding Kit we know this very well, the point was why use an oversized PSU that costs more money when not coming close to using the maximum output of the original.?
Regards your and DazP # of PSU's, which was the other point of my objection, you are still producing heat and burning electricity that isn't required. Heat is the enemy of electronics so anything that lowers it can only be good.!

. . . . Next you will all be telling people Bigger steppers are better.! :joker:

[cropwell]

I would presume that an SMPS when off load only draws enough input power to keep the output stage at voltage. Off load the efficiency will therefore be 0. The current drawn from the mains will be enough to compensate for leakage in the output capacitor(s) and this will depend on the design of the unit and the quality of the output stage electrolytics (in the main).

Similarly in a transformer based supply, in an off load situation the self inductance of the primary will limit the input current, but not as much as an SMPS in the same state. Again the idle current will be dependant on the transformer design.

Are these valid assumptions?

Rob.

[cropwell]

. . . . Next you will all be telling people Bigger steppers are better.! :joker:

I have got a couple of Nema 17 steppers fron a 3D printer extruder bar, will these be OK if I build that steel tubed gantry mill? :confusion::confusion:

[JAZZCNC]

I have got a couple of Nema 17 steppers fron a 3D printer extruder bar, will these be OK if I build that steel tubed gantry mill? :confusion::confusion:

Depends on the tube wall thickness.? Anything below 0.3mm and you'll be fine...:whistle:

[dazp1976]

There is NO misunderstanding Kit we know this very well, the point was why use an oversized PSU that costs more money when not coming close to using the maximum output of the original.?
Regards your and DazP # of PSU's, which was the other point of my objection, you are still producing heat and burning electricity that isn't required. Heat is the enemy of electronics so anything that lowers it can only be good.!

. . . . Next you will all be telling people Bigger steppers are better.! :joker:

Nooooooo. :smile: Bigger steppers are crap! unless you supply them with a very large voltage. Especially those 1700oz things with 8mh inductance from China. Seen a few make that mistake.

As for the PSU I don't see many of them that have failed unless they're running close to or over capacity. If the machine has car type relays in use and/or a few of them, then they may suck life out of it. If this is the case you're either replacing all the relays or going with a bigger supply (what's cheaper). (At least I only went 38w more! lol) Trace your wires and check what's in use.

[cropwell]

My point about automotive relays is that they draw a lot of current, some of them nearly 1 amp. That may damage the electronics that feed the coil. I am not concerned about PSU capacities, more than the BoB. In this case I do not know where the relay is fed from.

In fact I have spotted two of the little buggers in the photos, there may be more.

[Doddy]

Gods I'm bored being home-bound. Bored enough to look on Farnell and RS at both power relays and automotive - to be honest there's not an awful lot in it - which looks to be more around the switching capacity (not really surprising) and what you could imagine the associated switch gear and return springs, and with most of the 50A relays around the 90R coil resistance (around 130mA). Automotive are likely more suited to the environment (high vibration, humidity and corrosion resistance) as well as providing economic switching of the high capacity PSUs we all tend to have knocking about.

[Geoff57]

afternoon all hope you are all keeping well
psu arrived lunchtime all wired up machine working as it should
many many thanks to jazzcnc and Clive your persistance with me has now got my machine up and running sorry i was a pain but with your help and knowledge we got there when all this lockdown is over if you are down my way Barton on sea give me a shout i owe you guys a beer or two
Great Forum
thanks Geoff

[JAZZCNC]

Your Welcome Geoff pleased your making chips again. Take care and stay safe.

[Geoff57]

thanks jazz