Down Sizing to 5 axis.

[Mister Mills]

Howdy..... I have made a decision that most on here would think to be a crazy idea. Totally strip down a full size and fully working home built 3m x 1.5m Cnc Router and build smaller machine !! Some may think it madness as most people tend to make their machines bigger over time. This is exactly what I did a few years back. I went from a small desktop machine bodged together from scrap and started building bigger better parts until I reached the point of a full size machine capable of cutting full sized 2.4m x 1.2 m sheets of mdf etc.

The reason for my madness is simple...... Space!

My machine has been pretty much Idle for two years since I completed her. It got to a stage that I had run out of space in my small garage. I had no room to move or to actually bring in full sized sheets due to the layout. Anything stored underneath the machine was getting covered in sawdust, metal shavings and cutting fluid.

When I started this adventure many years ago I had this insatiable urge to have a full sized machine but when I got there I realized I did not have any need for such scale. What was I going to make with it??? I still don't know!

A few words of warning to those who want to go big big big. Make sure you have the room to build such a beast and plenty of room for sheet storage and an assembly area for stuff you make on it, otherwise you will end up like me. One final word of warning. Make sure you can walk around or easily access all sides of your machine. One of my biggest issues was that i had built right next to two walls (Back and complete side of machine)and found I had no way to fix or lubricate should the need arise. "And it did"........ Given the fact the she was several hundred KG at that stage and impossible to move.

With the above in mind I have made the decision to downsize and maybe make her 4 or 5 axis. For the moment I will concentrate on 3 axis as I would need a functioning machine to make parts for the additional axis upgrades down the road.

Current spec.


Aluminum profile construction.
3 Axis.
3m x1.5m. machine size.
2.4m x 1.2m cutting area.
2.2Kw Water cooled manual tool change Spindle
Mod 2 Rack and pinion.
25mm Round lineal rail.
Mist cooling.


Aspirations for the down sized machine.


High speed.
Servo drive. ( steppers for the moment but design for easy swap over )
ATC.
Automatic tool height measurement.
Possible inclusion for plasma cutter/water table integration.(Maybe)
Ethernet control.
Video camera for remote viewing.
Lighting.
1.5m x 1.5m (No larger and maybe smaller in one direction.
5 axis. (Start with 3)
800mm x 1000mm Cutting area( I will never need anything bigger) I think?? hmmmmm Might go bigger.:excitement:
Ball screws.
Linear rails.( 25mm square but budget dictates ) I have some ISEL LSF 2x12 dual round rails and WS-5 200mm carriages (Salvaged) to try first.
Fully enclosed for coolant and swarf containment.
Flood and mist cooling for aluminum part cutting.



It's a big wish list but we shall see.

I'm going to stick with the aluminum profile as a build material as I can change the design should it be needed.

I will attach some images of the current machine and update as I make progress. Let the fun begin!

[dazp1976]

Sounds good.

...........'Video camera for remote viewing'.

Might need a remote Estop switch too then :eek:

[Mister Mills]

It's on the bucket list ! haha. Easy enough to implement via Ethernet. I don't fancy standing in the garage for 14-15 hours while milling out a statue!

[driftspin]

Howdy..... I have made a decision that most on here would think to be a crazy idea. Totally strip down a full size and fully working home built 3m x 1.5m Cnc Router and build smaller machine !! Some may think it madness as most people tend to make their machines bigger over time. This is exactly what I did a few years back. I went from a small desktop machine bodged together from scrap and started building bigger better parts until I reached the point of a full size machine capable of cutting full sized 2.4m x 1.2 m sheets of mdf etc.

The reason for my madness is simple...... Space!

My machine has been pretty much Idle for two years since I completed her. It got to a stage that I had run out of space in my small garage. I had no room to move or to actually bring in full sized sheets due to the layout. Anything stored underneath the machine was getting covered in sawdust, metal shavings and cutting fluid.

When I started this adventure many years ago I had this insatiable urge to have a full sized machine but when I got there I realized I did not have any need for such scale. What was I going to make with it??? I still don't know!

A few words of warning to those who want to go big big big. Make sure you have the room to build such a beast and plenty of room for sheet storage and an assembly area for stuff you make on it, otherwise you will end up like me. One final word of warning. Make sure you can walk around or easily access all sides of your machine. One of my biggest issues was that i had built right next to two walls (Back and complete side of machine)and found I had no way to fix or lubricate should the need arise. "And it did"........ Given the fact the she was several hundred KG at that stage and impossible to move.

With the above in mind I have made the decision to downsize and maybe make her 4 or 5 axis. For the moment I will concentrate on 3 axis as I would need a functioning machine to make parts for the additional axis upgrades down the road.

Current spec.


Aluminum profile construction.
3 Axis.
3m x1.5m. machine size.
2.4m x 1.2m cutting area.
2.2Kw Water cooled manual tool change Spindle
Mod 2 Rack and pinion.
25mm Round lineal rail.
Mist cooling.


Aspirations for the down sized machine.


High speed.
Servo drive. ( steppers for the moment but design for easy swap over )
ATC.
Automatic tool height measurement.
Possible inclusion for plasma cutter/water table integration.(Maybe)
Ethernet control.
Video camera for remote viewing.
Lighting.
1.5m x 1.5m (No larger and maybe smaller in one direction.
5 axis. (Start with 3)
800mm x 1000mm Cutting area( I will never need anything bigger) I think?? hmmmmm Might go bigger.:excitement:
Ball screws.
Linear rails.( 25mm square but budget dictates ) I have some ISEL LSF 2x12 dual round rails and WS-5 200mm carriages (Salvaged) to try first.
Fully enclosed for coolant and swarf containment.
Flood and mist cooling for aluminum part cutting.



It's a big wish list but we shall see.

I'm going to stick with the aluminum profile as a build material as I can change the design should it be needed.

I will attach some images of the current machine and update as I make progress. Let the fun begin!Have you concidered flipping it on its side? It sounds like a waste to scrap the very good looking machine..

Grtz. Bert.




Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk

[Mister Mills]

Hi Bert,

Yes I did consider it but going forward I want to do more aluminum cutting using flood coolant and maybe one day 5 axis with ATC. I had no real need for a full sized machine to just cut large sheets.

[Mister Mills]

I actually have more than 300 mm space in the garage now !!! I didn't realize there were so 28101281022810328104many machine screws in her...

[driftspin]

I actually have more than 300 mm space in the garage now !!! I didn't realize there were so 28101281022810328104many machine screws in her...NOOOOOO!!!

:-)

It does make an attractive pile of raw materials.

Do you have plans drawn up for the new machine?

Will be following this one with interest!


Grtz Bert.



Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk

[Mister Mills]

Hey Bert, Yes it nice to look at and I am lucky in a way that a lot of the required tapping etc is already done. I'm guessing I made the neighbors a bit unhappy today with the metal saw!! The design is going to evolve.. I kind of have the idea in my head but because I am hoping to spend zero money on this make over it will change quiet a bit. I plan to use as much stuff as possible that I have about the place. Bits and pieces of older scraped machines and skip salvage etc.

So today I started the base and at least I have some Idea of the dimensions. Although I had a good bit of profile to play with the sizes were not ideal.

After a diet of tungsten carbide saw teeth she has slimmed down from 3m x 1.5 m to 1.450m x 1.2m Approx. This is a much more manageable size for me due to space restrictions.

For now I have the base frame mostly done. ( bottom supports to be added shortly ) and as soon as they are added I will level and square off the base before proceeding with the table supports.

The legs are higher than the base as i will attach an enclosure to stop coolant/chips flying out of her when cutting. This will happen towards the end of this phase of the build as it will help with access for the moment.

That is it for the minute!!28108281092811028111281122811328114

[Evengravy]

Looking forward to seeing this progress, I hope you don't inspire me to build a 5 axis before I've finished the current one.

[Mister Mills]

It's going to take a while!!! This dam lock down has me starved of materials. One of my main goals is to have flood coolant for this baby. I'm thinking about a fiberglass "Well" to cover the base just under the table to catch fluid. No idea how much this will cost as I have never delved into fiberglass before. There are several places in Dublin "All Closed" to get fiberglass materials. All going well I should be able to get something in a month or so. Plenty of time to design and build the other bits. Realistically I need to the the 3 axis setup running in order to make the 4th and 5th axis setup. Bit of chicken and egg at the moment. If I had of been clever( which I seldom am) I would of machined all the necessary parts BEFORE dismantling the working machine!!! DOHHHHHHH. Ooh well, thats the fun of it I guess. How is your base build coming along?

[Evengravy]

Hey, that sounds like a plan.

On the fibreglass front, strange coincidence but I'm planning something similar for the front of mine regarding catchment for flood coolant. I'm building the base out of two solid concrete walls and and cast glass fibre reinforced UHPC bed too on top of those walls (at least that's the plan). It'll be the beginning of second week of June before workload eases up enough time to get to building it, but.... The reason I mention is that I just got some raw glass fibre strands from a crowd in Northern Ireland (Newtonabbey) for the UHPC mix, if you're stuck, and I know they're still open and shipping as I just received my order. They are specialists in all manner of resins and glass fibre products. Cost to the republic shipping wise wasn't too bad to be honest. mbfg.co.uk if you're interested.

[Mister Mills]

So your going for a solid base then... :toot: Yeah I guess I'm luck as I am still working at the moment so time is scarce at the minute. Few days booked off next week so I will tear into it then. Cheers for the fiberglass link. I need to read up a little on whats needed etc as I have not worked with fiberglass on something so large.I may well use something else to fabricate the "Well" but it's a little lower down on the priority list. Next week it's the Y axis and Table supports for sure!!!

[routercnc]

It's a brave step but sometimes you need to build something to understand what you really want.

If you open the workshop door and just the sight of the CNC machine doesn't fill you with joy then it is time to re-assess, so well done on taking the first steps.

My only thoughts are the availability of true 5 axis controllers / CAM software (at least low cost/free), but someone may know different as I haven't looked into them much (!). Of course a 4th rotary axis is fairly common.

[Mister Mills]

Fusion 360 supposedly does 5 axis cam. I have never really used it and I'm sure its a ball breaker to use unless you have learned a bit about it. As for the controller, There has gotta be something out there for reasonable money. Anything is possible if you bang your head off a wall for long enough!!! I will keep you all in the loop when I figure it all out.

It can be done, It has been done............................It will be done again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Evengravy]

Fusion 360 supposedly does 5 axis cam. I have never really used it and I'm sure its a ball breaker to use unless you have learned a bit about it. As for the controller, There has gotta be something out there for reasonable money. Anything is possible if you bang your head off a wall for long enough!!! I will keep you all in the loop when I figure it all out.

It can be done, It has been done............................It will be done again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder controller wise if the Mesa cards would be worth a look. They seem to be well regarded by folk over on linuxcnc due to the configurability, performance and input/output count. When I get re-started on the lathe cnc I'm going to go that route for encoder and turret as a single parallel port just won't cut it for everything. I've seen other folk do 5th axis with that hardware, so I know it's possible.

This one's pretty neat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51jICcUkhhM and runs on mesa hardware

I'm not sure how solid it would be though...

[the great waldo]

Are you in Australia by any chance ?
Cheers
Andrew

[Mister Mills]

I have a UC300ETH and dual break out board on the way. Uccnc to run the machine as opposed to mach3. I have never used either of them so fingers crossed! :) She's also getting a full Square rail, Ballscrew and Motor upgrade. Not exactly what I had in mind when I started, but thats the buzz of building I guess. None of the Items have arrived just yet so I have just been pottering about with some design Ideas. All going well I should be able to post some updates in the next few weeks.
How are things your end of the world these days?

[Evengravy]

I've heard of UCCNC but that's about as much as I know about it, be keen to follow along.

[Mister Mills]

To be honest I never heard of it until Jazzcnc mentioned it in a comment. The controller (UC300ETH) appealed to me. Ethernet, 6 axis, high stepper pulse frequency, analog outputs and a load of I/O makes it pretty flexible for what I have in mind over the next few months. It's only Approx. 60 euro for a licence ( only works with their controllers ) That said you can hook up the controllers to Mach3/4 also. The BOB is very good spec also.

http://cncdrive.com/UC300ETH.html

http://cncdrive.com/UCBB.html

Both currently sitting in the cardboard box!!!!

One thing I need to invest in is patience......... Currently like a kid at christmas waiting for santa to arrive.

[Mister Mills]

A little update. Due to the whole corona thingy delivery of materials and parts have been very slow indeed. She has grown a little from what I had originally planned but it is well within the space available in the garage 1500 x 1700 including the side mounted ball screws and motors etc.. Her predecessor was way too big for practical use. I am slowly getting through my wish list.

To do for the moment:

The table bed supports have yet to be pinned together and I will do this as soon as the machine is squared.(currently 1mm off square in one direction). Dam wobbly crooked floor!!!! Water table/Coolant containment to be fitted as soon as the table is pinned and squared. I plan to sandwich the polyethylene sheeting between the table supports and the mounts for vices etc. Might be a crazy idea but I will try it none the less.

Finish off fitting both y axis ball screws/mounts and as I have only started the gantry so still a lot of work to do on that side of things. The new motors and ATC are still at least 2-3 weeks away from being delivered so plenty to do in the mean time. I will use my existing z axis for the moment and when she is cutting I will be able to machine the bigger/better z axis that i need for inclusion of the ATC.

Thats pretty much it for the moment. Lots to do!:tennis: 2841028411284122841328414

[Evengravy]

Coming together quickly. Any hint to how you'll put the 5th axis together? Or maybe that would spoil it...:)

[Mister Mills]

Hey John, I can't really give you any update on the 5 axis just yet. I need to get the xyz up and running first off to machine the bits I need. It will be table based ( 2 rotational axis) as opposed to rotating the z axis and a rotary table. I have finally got a notification that my motors are in transit and all going well I should have them next week at some stage. Fingers crossed. The atc will arrive early next month. :(. Still a ton of stuff to do before then. How is the base coming along for your setup?

[Evengravy]

Ah right. Well you're getting stuff done much quicker than I did that's for sure.