Converion based upon my old Deckel Mill

[John11668]

Have had an old Deckel FP 1 mill in my shop for years and it still does good work. (Pics attached ) but I have been tempted for some time to use it as the base for a CNC conversion

Rather than interfere with a classic, I have planted an Axminster compound table onto it https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-ct1-compound-table-400385 and converted that table with stepper motors and Chinese ballscrews.
I built my panel and with all sorts of problems along the way. I then downloaded a licensed version of Mach 3 and with a few more problems managed to get the table moving in X Y plane. That is a very abridged version of what went on, but with a simple routine I managed to cut a pocket.

Clearly I needed a Z axis ( not easy on a Deckel where the usual Z motion lifts the whole table)
The quill has very little backlash, so I have added a Heath Robinson drive to give me the Z motion and it all seems to work fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpDV7Lj5mTY
Sooooohh, I know this is a rough project, but If I can get an understanding of the processes then I will move to building something a little more refined .

So I now want to make the machine loop through the same repeated routine to a given depth.
I am told that IF and GOTO instructions are not supported by Mach3 and if I try to use a parameter to define the depth , increased at the start of a subroutine I get a vague error message which tells me it does not understand the word .

How would others program this to cut progressively down to say a depth of 6mm
Please go easy on me . I am a total newbie and struggling with the tutorial manuals .

[Doddy]

Heath Robinson?, hey it works. Actually the ball-screw adaptation of the XY table would be an interesting write-up for anyone here looking to produce a CNC mill on the cheap.

I guess you're manually writing the G-Code?, many/most here will use a CAM processor (e.g. CAMBam on PC) to generate the tool paths, including the decreasing Z depth, and the output from the CAM processor will be the G-Code to feed into mach3,or similar. I'd be going this route, personally.

To answer your question - I've never tried this with Mach3 (though have done similar with LinuxCNC), you *could* (many ways to skin a cat), use a subroutine to perform your pocket operation at a single depth, and use a loop and G-Code incremental mode to create the increasing depth.

Something like (and this will be full of errors - so use it to understand the concept, not to test, -- prefix = my comments, not valid G-Code) It's nasty, it's probably naughty but it might give you ideas. But see (a) above - look at CAM processing instead! Again, don't run this at all!!


O0001
G90 -- Absolute mode
G0 X0Y0Z10 -- Move to 0,0,10mm
M98 P02 L60 -- 60 Loops, (60 x 0.1z = 6mm) ... Z will start at 10mm and ultimately drop to 4mm safe clearance height.
M30 -- program end



O0002 -- subroutine to perform one pass on the pocket
G0 X0Y0 -- reset to X=0,Y=0 - if your G-Code returns the spindle to the start position of the pocket then you don't need this, but you must be positioned to XY that's safe to plunge into the work piece
G91 -- incremental mode
G1 Z-10 F100 -- plunge down 10mm
G90 -- absolute mode

-- << do your pocket stuff here... NO Z movements!!!! >>

G91 -- incremental mode
G1 Z9.9 -- retract 9.9mm, the difference between this and 10mm is your plunge depth, here, 0.1mm
G90 -- absolute mode

M99 -- return from subroutine

[John11668]

Thanks for the reply Doddy.
Late now so will look at it in the morning to see what i can make of it

John

[John11668]

I thought i would need some understanding of coding before I embarked upon the Cam stuff.
I did try using Autocad but havent really tried too hard to get into it yet.
I will be hoping to machine pieces to my own designs and nothing too complex . Are you saying it would be better to learn to draw them on paper, rather than code what is in my head?

[JAZZCNC]

Hi John,

If you use programs Like CanBam or any of the CAD/CAM programs like Fusion360 etc then you don't need to write a single line of G-code. That is the purpose of them to makes things simple and easy.

However, if you are using Mach3 there some wizards that will do basic operations like Pockets, Hole patterns, surfacing, etc and all you do is enter in the parameters like depth, length, width, etc. You can even build the code up by using a combination of the wizards.

[John11668]

If I am going to look at CAM then which version is best for a novice .
In particular which has the best tutorials.

[Muzzer]

For tutorials for all abilities and applications, you couldn't do better than Fusion. Can't imagine anyone arguing with that.

[Doddy]

I'm a big fan of Fusion (especially as I hate Windows machines), but you'd be running into a wall of learning curves. CamBam allows you to go from a single point to a machine drill operation, through basic primitives (lines, circles) to more complex machining operations (pocketing, etc). It's a really useful and pretty capable.

Fusion et all are great but not an easy-in on CAM. Get the basics understood first, learn to walk before you try running.

...or maybe that's just me

[routercnc]

I think you’ve made a good point Doddy and I agree. I have used CAD and CAM packages for years so when F360 came out it was an easy transition.
But if you are starting from very little experience it could be too much.

Coming from the other end I think starting with the gcode is equally challenging and I think you are better off letting the CAM software generate the magic code leaving you free to concentrate on what you actually want to make.

Are you familiar with the steps that are required in the whole process as there are actually quite a few?

Have an idea
Draw it in CAD
Export the file out as something like .IGES format (assuming CAM is a separate program)
Load the file into a CAM program
Select the lines and circles and tell the software which tool you want to use and how you want it to be cut (inside the line , outside the line, or drill a hole etc)
This generates the toolpaths
Export out these toolpaths as gcode (.txt format)
If you like you can view these in an editor as see what code it created
Load the gcode file into your control software (Mach3) or whatever
Assuming machine is homed and ready then hit cycle start

When you write it out in a list like this there is a lot to step through so start simple and get practising. There will be set backs and frustrations but it will start to become clear.

[John11668]

Hi guys
Have downloaded Cam Bam (9.8)
And had a quick look through the tutorials
Have to say I was quickly lost. The tutorials seem to go far too fast for a total novice to follow and by the time he had copied and pasted 3 items i was so far behind him it was hard to catch up.
Are there any step by step tutorials for us old fogies to follow at our own pace .
I will give it another shot later but are there others out there that dont find it easy to keep up?

[Clive S]

Hi guys
Have downloaded Cam Bam (9.8)
And had a quick look through the tutorials
Have to say I was quickly lost. The tutorials seem to go far too fast for a total novice to follow and by the time he had copied and pasted 3 items i was so far behind him it was hard to catch up.
Are there any step by step tutorials for us old fogies to follow at our own pace .
I will give it another shot later but are there others out there that dont find it easy to keep up?

If you are watching them on You tube just keep your finger on the space bar and press it for pause then press it again for play

[Doddy]

I'd cut my teeth on the basic documentation just to get used to how the software works first, before worrying about the exotics....

http://www.cambam.info/doc/plus/cam/Basics.htm

[Kitwn]

Note that v1.0 is now preferred. There isn't much difference from the outside but when you come to add some of the very useful plug-ins in future many of them only work on 1.0.

I'm with Doddy on starting with the basics. Use the menu on the page he linked to for instructions. This is a good starter..

http://www.cambam.info/doc/plus/SimpleExample.htm

The site forum is also very good with lots of helpful people and a big archive. And help is always available here of course.


Kit

[John11668]

Heath Robinson?, hey it works. Actually the ball-screw adaptation of the XY table would be an interesting write-up for anyone here looking to produce a CNC mill on the cheap.


While I spend a few days (weeks) getting into Cam Bam I will put together a thread about the alterations to the compound table and my thinking in going this way.
Will start a new thread to avoid polluting this one further and hopefully will come back to this point when Cam Bam sinks in a bit

[Kitwn]

Don't be afraid to ask questions about CB if required. I don't claim to be an expert, but I've been using it to make things for a few years now.

[John11668]

Had a play today and managed to do a rudimentary drawing (keeping it simple ) Managed to create a toolpath and a bunch of G code on my office machine .
Then tried to email the Gcode to my workshop machine so i could try it out on Mach 3 .
What is the process. I can save a *.cd file . but cant seem to attach it to an email.
Cant copy and paste cos the code is tens of pages and i cant copy all at one go. What is the best way to send a Gcode file to another machine ?

Are there off the peg bits of code to play with while I am getting the hang of Bam Bam?

[driftspin]

Had a play today and managed to do a rudimentary drawing (keeping it simple ) Managed to create a toolpath and a bunch of G code on my office machine .
Then tried to email the Gcode to my workshop machine so i could try it out on Mach 3 .
What is the process. I can save a *.cd file . but cant seem to attach it to an email.
Cant copy and paste cos the code is tens of pages and i cant copy all at one go. What is the best way to send a Gcode file to another machine ?

Are there off the peg bits of code to play with while I am getting the hang of Bam Bam?Hi john,

Try rightclick zip and email.

When it is still over 10mb orso zipped.
Just copy it to an usb stick.

Walk it to the machine.


Grtz Bert.


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk

[Kitwn]

Gcode is nothing but text so you can save it with any extension your email will allow. .txt for example and change it to whatever MACH3 wants on arrival. If it's the file size that's the problem then try some simpler shapes! Even the Aztec Calendar at 400mm diameter is only 6MB and I've just had a look at my collected files for all sorts of projects and most of them are only a few tens of Killobytes with some (cutting out gears for wooden clocks as an example) still under 1MB.
Alternatively save each part of the machining as a separate file (right click on each machining operation in turn and click on 'Enable/Dissable MOP' to turn them on and off).

You can always attach a CamBam project file to a post here as a .zip file if you want us to have a look at the work in progress (You may also be able to cheat and simply change the file extension from .cb to .jpg or .zip as long as you tell us exactly what you've done, but I've never tried that in practice).

In practice I do as driftspin suggests, design everything on my desk computer and carry a USB stick with the Gcode to the dedicated machine computer.

Kit

[Doddy]

Don't confuse the CAMBAM project (.cb) with the GCode. I'm doing this blind and haven't used CAMBAM for a while, so this might be a bit awry, but lets try...

When you define your graphic primitives, then create the machining operations to "do" the CAM, by this action you create a second branch in the "tree" on the far left of the CAMBAM window labeled "Machining", and under this "Part1", then the individual CAM operations. If you click on the "Machining" branch (this will set this for the whole project.... you can also, I think, do this under the "Part" branch - just depends on how much you want to automate the CAM generation), then under there there'll be an "Out File" - or something similar that you specify the path/filename that you want, then hit the menu option Machining/Create GCode File - that'll generate the G-Code and write this to the filename specified. As others have said - you can designate this as .txt or whatever you want.

[John11668]

Thanks guys
I managed to save the G code file onto a stick , carted it off to the workshop, and loaded g code directly into Mach 3 from the stick address (without copying elsewhere ) and all seemed to appear as required into the Mach 3 . So lookin good :encouragement:

Doesnt look like Cambam and Mach 3 speak the same dialect though !

So when I click start , the process begins and looks promising until it stops and I get I get an error message .
Says "Radius to end of arc differs from Radius to start (with block reference )
Block is G2 F800.0 X180.0 Z-0.0856 I-12.5717 J58.6681
No radius in there to trouble us , is there ????

And if i go to edit the .txt file come up with pages totally delineated load of code . Not a list , just pages of consecutive text, so finding the offending block to edit is nigh on impossible.
:sorrow:

[Kitwn]

This forum entry refers to the problem and sugests a solution.

https://cambamcnc.com/forum/index.php?topic=1218.msg6459#msg6459

To change the post-processor click on the 'system' tab, and select the correct post-processor from the list in there. If this doesn't work then try a search on the CamBam forum. Copy and paste the error message into the search box. There are plenty of results to choose from!

[JAZZCNC]

So when I click start , the process begins and looks promising until it stops and I get I get an error message .
Says "Radius to end of arc differs from Radius to start (with block reference )
Block is G2 F800.0 X180.0 Z-0.0856 I-12.5717 J58.6681
No radius in there to trouble us , is there ????



Go into mach3 general config and change the I/J settings that should get rid of the message.

[John11668]

This forum entry refers to the problem and sugests a solution.

https://cambamcnc.com/forum/index.php?topic=1218.msg6459#msg6459

To change the post-processor click on the 'system' tab, and select the correct post-processor from the list in there. If this doesn't work then try a search on the CamBam forum. Copy and paste the error message into the search box. There are plenty of results to choose from!

Been to the forum and this does seem to be a common problem, but there are hundreds of similar blocks in the code so editing isnt going to be the answer.
Have tried changing the PP to Mach 3 but the indicator ( green arrow )stays at default . Does this only work on licensed version perhaps ?

[John11668]

Go into mach3 general config and change the I/J settings that should get rid of the message.

Will look at that Jazz but immediate question is What do I change them to? Remember I am a raw newbie :witless:

[John11668]

Got it !
Config/ general config/ then change IJ mode from absolute to incremental and that seems to have done the trick
Starting to make some progress now . (I hope )
Thanks Guys.

[JAZZCNC]

Got it !
Config/ general config/ then change IJ mode from absolute to incremental and that seems to have done the trick
Starting to make some progress now . (I hope )
Thanks Guys.

Yep, that's the one.