Drivers operating in erratic way

[John11668]

My mill is a self build but despite that has worked pretty well as I started to get into cambam.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/13746-Compound-table-conversion-of-an-old-Deckel-mill

I did rebuild the control panel , changed a driver and fitted some plugs in the motor cables but the machine has worked OK since that.
But strange things have just started to happen :distress:
For example the z axis would jog in the positive direction but not in the negative . Restart the computer and it would be ok for a while
Then home all the axes and z would go in the negative direction when home is positive . Restart and repeat and now Z actual motion would stop at the switch but the DRO continued as if the computer didnt recognise this had happened.

I ran a program that operated OK last week and the Y motion stopped despite the computer thinking it was continuing, Both Y DRO and the toolpath indicate all is well but Y has stopped at 30 when the display thinks it is at 50 . It traverses back properly though but of course goes back beyon Y 0 so it hits the limit

I have rechecked all the wiring and the green plug connectors at the drivers and all seems OK
But it looks like what is happening on the screen is not happening at the motors . I tried increasing motor currents (thinking it might be missing steps ) but other than making the motors run hotter this has made no significant difference.
I have a 64 bit processor, so output is through a UC100 controller . All the drivers are showing green lights but seeming to please themselves whether to mirror what the screen is asking them to do. I am running Mach 3 .

Is it the software ? or the controller?? Bob maybe ???
Could the drivers be shot ? .They are all fairly new , some brand new , but we have to wonder about the quality of the kit..
Is the cheap chinese stuff a load of cr@p and what do you get for paying more to a British shop , who in reality must be importing chinese stuff anyway .

Where do others get their Kit, and how would you suggest I go about trying to analyse what the heck is going on here .
I could really use some help here folks.

Thanks in anticipation

[Muzzer]

Sounds as if the drivers are not registering all of the step pulses the controller is sending them. What pulse frequency and pulse width are you sending them? You might try to slow down the frequency to give them a chance.

I found that I had to slow the frequency down to 100kHz before the Chinesium stepper drive I was playing with would work consistently. Apparently that is about right for many of these things. The fact it used to work but now sort of doesn't suggests that you were marginal to be begin with. That might have required only slight changes in things like the wiring, temperature and age of the components to mess things up.

I'd suggest you lower the stepper frequency (in the controller setings) as a first step and see where that gets you.

[John11668]

Will try that then come back and report.
May not get to it today !

[JAZZCNC]

The first question to ask is it a genuine UC100 from CNCdrive motion controls or was it bought from eBay.?

Next, I've seen this happen many times with various controllers, and often it's a corrupted Mach3 XML. Either create a new profile using the same settings or go into the XML backup folder and use an old one that you know worked. Personally I'd set up a new one.

Or better still invest in UCCNC as it's now much better than Mach3.

[John11668]

The first question to ask is it a genuine UC100 from CNCdrive motion controls or was it bought from eBay.?

Next, I've seen this happen many times with various controllers, and often it's a corrupted Mach3 XML. Either create a new profile using the same settings or go into the XML backup folder and use an old one that you know worked. Personally I'd set up a new one.

Or better still invest in UCCNC as it's now much better than Mach3.

The UC100 was obtained from CNC4you and I am assured that it is the genuine article .
I dont have a problem with the £60 or so for a UCCNC licence but slight concern about familiarization with a new bit of software.
Will I find it easy to convert ?
Is there a trial option?

[John11668]

I have downloaded and installed UCCNC onto my office machine, win XP pro and looks good.
So tried to do the same on shop machine with UC100 attached (and Win 8.1) and it wont install,
Comes up with an error message about unhandled error and refers to a box about Jit debugging which I have to say is a foreign tongue to me .
Anyone know what to do to get past this problem???:witless:

[JAZZCNC]

I have downloaded and installed UCCNC onto my office machine, win XP pro and looks good.
So tried to do the same on shop machine with UC100 attached (and Win 8.1) and it wont install,
Comes up with an error message about unhandled error and refers to a box about Jit debugging which I have to say is a foreign tongue to me .
Anyone know what to do to get past this problem???:witless:

Try installing it as Administrator. "Jit" stands for Just in time debugging.

[ngwagwa]

The UC100 was obtained from CNC4you and I am assured that it is the genuine article .
I dont have a problem with the £60 or so for a UCCNC licence but slight concern about familiarization with a new bit of software.
Will I find it easy to convert ?
Is there a trial option?

I moved from Mach3 to UUCNC earlier this year and it is a doddle, the only thing you may need to look at are the Constant Velocity settings. UUCNC is also a lot faster when you need to restart a program part way through taking seconds to restart instead of ages like Mach3. The standard probing functions are great.

[John11668]

Try installing it as Administrator. "Jit" stands for Just in time debugging.

I am the Administrator Jaz.
It is the only account on this machine .
Tried uninstalling and reinstalling all to no avail. Tried with and without UC100 but throws up the error .
Yet Happily installs on an XP pro or a Win 10 machine neither with UC100.

Process of editing the registry sounds dangerous to me

[Doddy]

Try installing it as Administrator. "Jit" stands for Just in time debugging.

...often as part of a Java installation. Try installing/updating from Oracle.

[John11668]

Still cant install UCCNC despite trying various settings
Will see if CNCdrive can offer a solution.
WRT The erratics I was about to change cables anyway . Will fit new screened cable and and ensure screen is well earthed and then see if any difference. Changing the controller frequency did not seem to help sadly.
Any other suggestions would still be welcomed though.

[John11668]

Much as I appreciate your advice doddy , you could be talking chinese as far as I am concerned .
Can you expand a little on the process (preferably in words of one syllable) for those who( like me) are IT challenged

[Doddy]

Much as I appreciate your advice doddy , you could be talking chinese as far as I am concerned .
Can you expand a little on the process (preferably in words of one syllable) for those who( like me) are IT challenged

Apologies.

I'm largely guessing here but, whilst Jazz is correct that JIT is an acronym of Just-In-Time, this technology is frequently and commonly associated with the Java JIT compiler. Java, being a programming language and development environment common for cross-platform development.

Because you mentioned you was getting run-time exceptions that referenced the JIT debugger, it's one possibility - and just that - of an issue wrt to the installed version of Java on your Win10 machine. Just a possibility, not a hard diagnostic.To this end if you go to Oracle's site (Oracle bought out Sun Microsystems, who developed Oracle), then you can download the latest and greatest version of Java. See here (https://www.oracle.com/uk/java/)

This is just an idea - for the reason given above, and that I, and you also, have already got UCCNC working on other machines without problem.

I'd also suggest giving the full details on the UCCNC forums - they are active.

[dazp1976]

That's the forth person I've seen that's been having problems and been using a UC100.
That thing really seems like fitting a band aid that was quickly bought out when PC's started removing the parallel port.
Connector converters have never been very reliable.

Dump the junk and get a UC300 or 400ETH, a couple of cables and bob's. Save yourself hassle.

This is the way I'd go in the future when I eventually need more pins. UCCNC / Servo spindle / Toolchange etc.
As it is my £40 Dell refurb (with actual p,port), WinXP, £7 bob & Mach3 have been faultless for over 3 years on 3 axis.

[Doddy]

The UC100 is not a connector converter, it is a motion controller, similar to the UC300/400 that you recommend.

[John11668]

I understand too that it is needed to make Mach3 work on a 64 bit processor. Mach 3 was ok on 32 bit machines but 64 bit machines needed them.
Or is someone going to tell me different?
This machine actually does have a parallel port if anyone can tell me how to make it work

[the great waldo]

Hello John
I would like to recommend that you get yourself onto the uccnc forum
http://forum.cncdrive.com/viewforum.php?f=2
There should be someone there that can help you out and Balasz (uccnc drive) the chap that produces the UC100 is available there.
Regards
Andrew

[John11668]

I have registered there Andrew but I do not seem to be getting a confirmation email ( this has happened on a few forums recently)
Can this be brought to the attention of Admins over there ??

[the great waldo]

Hi John
If you can let me have your email( you can pm it) i'll pass it on to them.
Cheers
Andrew

[dazp1976]

I understand too that it is needed to make Mach3 work on a 64 bit processor. Mach 3 was ok on 32 bit machines but 64 bit machines needed them.
Or is someone going to tell me different?
This machine actually does have a parallel port if anyone can tell me how to make it work

I always thought that the 64bit processor count doesn't matter as it is backward compatible to 32bit. So a 32 bit OS can be installed with no issues. The difference is the ram usage allowance.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-32-bit-OS-work-on-a-64-bit-processor-Does-it-decrease-the-processors-performance

[John11668]

Being honest Daz I dont really understand the ins and outs.
I was advised by a chap I met at the Alexander palace model show( member of the society of experimental engineers and I understand he was their CNC guru) that in order to run Mach 3 on a 64 bit machine I needed a UC100 . It would not drive even a single stepper when I first tried .
I took his advice and it then worked.
Same gentleman guided me here so his advice seems sound enough. :angel:
He may well be reading this thread !

[the great waldo]

Hi John
Just a thought , have you tried registering from a smart phone ? Or set up a gmail account.

Cheers
Andrew

[John11668]

Hi Andrew
I am in touch with Balazs via the CNCdrive page and he tells me the software is not recognising a video card which is adequate for the software ,
Unfortunately it is a Dell machine , and the Video card is integral on the motherboard .
In such circumstances I am not sure whether I can add a better video card into one of the card slots and let it find its own driver , or whether I am stuck with what is there .

[dazp1976]

Hi Andrew
I am in touch with Balazs via the CNCdrive page and he tells me the software is not recognising a video card which is adequate for the software ,
Unfortunately it is a Dell machine , and the Video card is integral on the motherboard .
In such circumstances I am not sure whether I can add a better video card into one of the card slots and let it find its own driver , or whether I am stuck with what is there .

Laptop or desktop?
Most laptops can't have one added.
Most desktops can.
My Dell desktop is a 780 and has a PCI express port. I added a Radeon 7470 to it (low profile).
Have a look at the spec of your machine to see if it mentions internal PCI ports.

[John11668]

Desk top Daz. Del optiplex 380 upgraded to win 8.1. The Dell help page doesn't help much.
Looks to have three empty card slots at the base of the motherboard.
Will one of those accomodate a graphics card,?, Which one ? , and what is a decent card to get ?
Will it be plug and play or will it need configured

[the great waldo]

Hi John
Maybe installing older graphics card drivers might fix the problem?
Cheers.
Andrew

[John11668]

Hi John
Just a thought , have you tried registering from a smart phone ? Or set up a gmail account.

Cheers
Andrew

So many options Andrew .. Will maybe give it a go

[John11668]

Hi John
Maybe installing older graphics card drivers might fix the problem?
Cheers.
Andrew

Win 8 is weird Andrew so in all honesty I have never found how to do that!

[dazp1976]

Desk top Daz. Del optiplex 380 upgraded to win 8.1. The Dell help page doesn't help much.
Looks to have three empty card slots at the base of the motherboard.
Will one of those accomodate a graphics card,?, Which one ? , and what is a decent card to get ?
Will it be plug and play or will it need configured

I'm not familiar with Win 8.1 (wasn't around for very long though, hmmmm).

Checked my optiplex 780 earlier. Just to prove a point:
Has a 64bit processor, Core 2 duo E7500, 2.95ghz.
DDR3 ram, 4gb.
Radeon 7470 upgrade.
Running WinXP, Mach3 through parallel port.
Faultless.

Is this the motherboard below?
If so the black slot 3rd from left after the 2 white ones is a PCI express x16 graphics slot.
As suggested, try updating existing driver for on board chip first.
If still no good then my 7470 works great so anything around those spec should be good enough.
(I'd go for a 2gb DDR5 if you do some 3D type cutting with long code) you don't need spend too much.

380 board?
https://images.esellerpro.com/3459/I/819/4/2006-01-13%2012.42.57.jpg

Radeon 7470
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-hd-7470-oem.c299
Cost me £15 at the time.

[John11668]

Do you think this one would be up to the job
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-AMD-ATI-Radeon-R5-340-PCI-E-Graphics-Card-2Gb-DVI-DisplayPort-P-N-Y7XRF/331934132712?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[the great waldo]

Hi John
Before you get a new graphics card you are going to have to check if your computer takes a half height or a full height card.
Cheers
Andrew
Ps Maybe going to windows 10 or backwards to windows 7 (now obsolete but much easier to work with (at least for an old fart like me)) might solve your driver problem !

[John11668]

Hi again to all!
I was actually wondering that and actually wondered if I should go back to 32 bit. This machine is 32 bit and seems to have decent graghics (sufficient to handle UCCNC anyway)
Am I correct that with 32bit I do not need a controller ? I seem to remember that Mach3 would self set up on certain functions with the simple parallel port connection.
There are reasonable computers on Ebay for £80 or so .
So what is best for this task ? It is primarily to run this CNC function
32 0r 64 bit ?
Win 10 or one of the older versions
What do I look for if I want graphics which UCCNC will be happy with?
It would be dead easy to spend a lot of money and still have troubles.

Simple question is "what works best" ?

[the great waldo]

Hi John

If you haven't got a load of programs on the pc I would reinstall the operating system win 10 or 7 and see if the driver problem sorts itself out. I don't think for UCCNC it matters 32 or 64 bit . By the way did you get the registration on the uccnc forum sorted out.
Cheers
Andrew

[John11668]

So a quick report!
Have loaded a new Mach 3 profile which does not seem to help.
I have checked connections and cant find errors , I have even run a new cable to y axis direct from driver to stepper and no improvement .
Havent yet managed to install UCCNC but working on that.

I am beginning to doubt the quality of kit I have , UC100 was obtained from a trusted source but could it have been spiked by other duff gear?
I have had a couple of dubious Breakout boards , How do I know this one is OK?
I have bought drivers from cheap sources as well as trusted sources but how do I know where even the trusted gear is being sourced ????
I did have a failed motor , but all seem to run sweet now ,
But all this kit seems to come from china so how on earth do I know what I am getting? and it is all so fragile anyway so if I get a failure then it is inevitably my own fault cos i must have shorted it ???
Is it worth paying the extra for gecko say? Should I get new motors too and from where ??
This seems to be a satisfying hobby but more than frustrating if things are going wrong.
Rant over

[John11668]

Hi John

If you haven't got a load of programs on the pc I would reinstall the operating system win 10 or 7 and see if the driver problem sorts itself out. I don't think for UCCNC it matters 32 or 64 bit . By the way did you get the registration on the uccnc forum sorted out.
Cheers
Andrew

Got that sorted Andrew , Thanks for your help on that. . But still need to get the graphics sorted to see UCCNC working

[John11668]

Right so!
Heres the latest... I could still see that Y axis appeared to have a mind of its own . Sometimes would go , then it would stop.
Wired the motor direct to the driver with no plug in the line -- No better.
Found that Z axis would jog up , but not down. So changed the driver and that cured that problem.
And lo I now find that Y axis is working fine too WTF:witless:
Since then I have run two cam programs , the second quite a long one , with no fault. So why?????
Why should changing the Z driver cure a problem with the Y motion.
I am beginning to think that CNC is a black art which I have yet to master.
I also wonder if I have got some cr@p drivers .
Which drivers would you guys recommend ?
Is it worth paying for Gecko?? Advice appreciated

[Neale]

Being honest Daz I dont really understand the ins and outs.
I was advised by a chap I met at the Alexander palace model show( member of the society of experimental engineers and I understand he was their CNC guru) that in order to run Mach 3 on a 64 bit machine I needed a UC100 . It would not drive even a single stepper when I first tried .
I took his advice and it then worked.
Same gentleman guided me here so his advice seems sound enough. :angel:
He may well be reading this thread !

Probably me, although "guru" is putting it a bit strong. Sorry I can't help with UCCNC issues as I have never used it for real, just had a look at the demo version. I have had graphics card issues myself, although installing the latest graphics driver helped the last time this happened. Glad you found this site - great source of help and sounds as if someone is now guiding you.

[John11668]

Hi Neale , and nice to hear from you again. Sorry if you feel that guru is too strong a term (I did not set out to cause embarrassment) but your colleagues on the stand on that day clearly felt you were their specialist , and therefore the man to advise me . I certainly appreciated your advice . Thanks again

While UCCNC will be an interesting sideline for me, the urgency has abated due to the fact that Mach 3 seems to be working for me at the moment.
I still do not fully understand why but I suspect that the quality of Kit was my main Issue, so am keen to explore that topic
I can see that this thread has now run its course, so maybe i need to start a new one for advice on which kit will give me a robust control system .

[John11668]

The first question to ask is it a genuine UC100 from CNCdrive motion controls or was it bought from eBay.?

Next, I've seen this happen many times with various controllers, and often it's a corrupted Mach3 XML. Either create a new profile using the same settings or go into the XML backup folder and use an old one that you know worked. Personally I'd set up a new one.

Or better still invest in UCCNC as it's now much better than Mach3.

I took your advice on this Jazz and was quite happy with what I got until this week .
I lost my licence as a result of a crash and having to reinstall Windows .
UCCNC license disappeared too . I have asked them to resend email and two days later with much discussion on CNCdrive forum I am no further forward .
As I said there it is like buying a new car and finding yourself calling for help from manufacturer then getting ignored .

I am in no way trying to blame you jazz but just noting that while their software looks good their customer support can be second rate .
This seems to be borne out by some reviews .

[JAZZCNC]

I took your advice on this Jazz and was quite happy with what I got until this week .
I lost my licence as a result of a crash and having to reinstall Windows .
UCCNC license disappeared too . I have asked them to resend email and two days later with much discussion on CNCdrive forum I am no further forward .
As I said there it is like buying a new car and finding yourself calling for help from manufacturer then getting ignored .

I am in no way trying to blame you jazz but just noting that while their software looks good their customer support can be second rate .
This seems to be borne out by some reviews .

If you go to your Email server you may still have the email if you didn't delete it.? . . . But this should serve as a lesson to back up to an external source ie: USB stick or offsite drive like Dropbox.!!

[John11668]

lesson learned Jazz, but still doesn't alter the fact that their customer service is appalling

[JAZZCNC]

lesson learned Jazz, but still doesn't alter the fact that their customer service is appalling

Possibly but have you considered we are not the only country struggling with Covid and they might be short-staffed.?

[the great waldo]

lesson learned Jazz, but still doesn't alter the fact that their customer service is appalling

I had the wrong license file for my controller and emailed Balazs with some screenshots where he spotted that I had the wrong license for my particular controller on a Sunday morning and got the correct file in 15 mins. I would check your spam filters as they can be unpredictable.
Cheers
Andrew

[John11668]

Been there - checked all spam too
License file arrived at 3AM No apology, no excuse , or anything

[the great waldo]

Well life's not so bad after all. At least you've got your license file and can move forwards.
Cheers
Andrew