Boxford v190 cnc

[BernieNUFC]

Hi All

I see there are a lot of posts to go through about this machine so i am not asking at the moment :-)

It will arrive next week and i can go over it and in the meantime read up and see whether the recommendations are to leave as is or get it up to date.

So why am i posting? well i am bound to need help even with the posts so its only fair that i can make an offer too anyone on this forum.

I read the comments about old PC's being used/needed, well i currently scrap lots of old style PC,s regular so if anyone want to pay postage i am happy to see if i can help, (hoping i don't get a flood :-) ) but by all means drop in here or pm and i will accommodate if possible

Malc

[John11668]

Hi Bernie
Happy to help if I can. Although most on here are far more experienced than i am

I have put together a CNC mill of sorts using a compound table on my old German mill, and am now on a project with a Boxford TCL 125. I failed to get it going on the Boxford boards .

I will be looking for a PC shortly as I am being told I need to Install Linux and best to do so on a "clean machine "
It seems linux does not need anything upmarket so if you have something you think might be suitable I would be interested .
Postage would not be a problem. And recycling is good!:thumsup:

[BernieNUFC]

Hi John
Just this minute finished ready your posts :-), some good help there from the forum.
I am happy to supply a PC to you, do you want me to give spec range or easier just let me know the min you want for linux

Malc

[John11668]

Hi Malc and thankyou.

I havent even got to thinking about what I need . I did fall foul of a graphics problem with UCCNC on my mill with poor graphics spec on a Dell SFF. But I dont know whether Linux CNC is very demanding on graphics . Maybe one of the other guys will step in and help but I dont want to hijack your thread .

I will try to do some research

John

[BernieNUFC]

jack away as it will contribute and i read everything i can anyway :-)

I can probably put a spec up tomorrow on here for all and sundry :-)

[John11668]

I understand that one of the primary considerations is a parallel port so bound to be an oldish spec , and someone suggested two ports are better than one .
No doubt an extra port can be added though.

[BernieNUFC]

Might have some parallel cards lying around, will check

[John11668]

Other than that

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/system-requirements.html

I expect some of the guys here will add to that:thumsup:

[BernieNUFC]

i can meet that

[Doddy]

Other than that

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/system-requirements.html

I expect some of the guys here ill add to that:thumsup:

John/Bernie, Not wanting to tread on anyone's toes here, but if you wanted to look at LinuxCNC, then you're more likely to want to meet the OS requirements for a modern installation, the Desktop version of Ubuntu 20 comes at:-

(Source: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements)

"Ubuntu Desktop Edition
2 GHz dual core processor
4 GiB RAM (system memory)
25 GB of hard-drive space (or USB stick, memory card or external drive but see LiveCD for an alternative approach)
VGA capable of 1024x768 screen resolution
Either a CD/DVD drive or a USB port for the installer media
Internet access is helpful"

LinuxCNC doesn't need much in the way of graphics support.

[BernieNUFC]

I have tried linux various distros as my gaffer is a linux guru, but i have been windows since inception (win 3 and 3.11 :-) ), i also tried linuxcnc instead of mach3 for reasons stated here many a time and i just can't work out why i struggle so much but i do, that said, i will try again as it has to get easier as time goes by :-D :-D

Cheers Doddy

[John11668]

Thanks doddy
I just knew that there had to be some appropriate experience to temper what I linked .
Trouble with t'internet is that all the old stuff is still up there .

I am quite happy to go with that.
Just hope Bernie had something to fit the bill

[BernieNUFC]

Thanks doddy
I just knew that there had to be some appropriate experience to temper what I linked .
Trouble with t'internet is that all the old stuff is still up there .

I am quite happy to go with that.
Just hope Bernie had something to fit the bill

I will :-)

[Clive S]

I have tried linux various distros as my gaffer is a linux guru, but i have been windows since inception (win 3 and 3.11 :-) ), i also tried linuxcnc instead of mach3 for reasons stated here many a time and i just can't work out why i struggle so much but i do, that said, i will try again as it has to get easier as time goes by :-D :-D

Cheers Doddy

This is the version I would go with Mint 19.3

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38932-linuxcnc-package-repos-for-mint-19-x-ubuntu-18-04-aka-bionic-beaver-mint-iso?start=0

[John11668]

Will go that way Clive . Thankyou!
Hopefully Bernie will turn up a suitable cheap box to put it in .

[BernieNUFC]

So i have a box for you, if you pm me your details

[depronman]

Seconded on mint 19.3. Been using it on my vmc190 without issues. Linuxcnc v2.8

I’m actually running linuxcnc v2.9 something on the orac lathe but that was trying to get a usb pendant to work, however it’s been rock solid so it’s staying on v2.9 with it’s working pendant

I’m using the par port on the m/b on the orac plus one pci add in par port for external buttons inputs

The vmc190 is using a rather more modern m/b with no par port but I managed to get a pci card off eBay second hand that as two par ports so all is good
One think to watch out for when setting the par port in linuxcnc to ‘in’ mode is that a lot of the pins now work as input pins as against the std configuration of output pin, this is great as you get a lot more of the precious input pins but the BOB’s are configured to have the pin as in output pins and as such the option couplers are the wrong way around
This had me fooled for a long time as it appeared that the BOB was not working in ‘in’ mode when it actually was

Paul


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[BernieNUFC]

Paul, if the 190 is fully function with the boxford software would you still recommend changing it to linuxcnc?

bernie

[Kitwn]

This is the version I would go with Mint 19.3

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38932-linuxcnc-package-repos-for-mint-19-x-ubuntu-18-04-aka-bionic-beaver-mint-iso?start=0

Clive,
What's the advantage of this over the generic clean instal of LinuxCNC itself?

Kit

[depronman]

Paul, if the 190 is fully function with the boxford software would you still recommend changing it to linuxcnc?

bernie

If you have the boxford software and it’s all functional then maybe not
I’ve never tried the boxford software myself. I was told it was about £600 and the boxford would deal with educational establishments so even if my pockets had been deep enough then boxford would not sell it to me anyway

Also bear in mind that it was aimed at education as against industry and as such may be far from std in terms of G code etc
Are there any post processors that spit out boxford std g code ? As without this your life will be much harder

Linuxcnc is at least current and if there are any hardware issue then the electronics being replaced with new stepper drivers etc makes it all new and compatible
This is the root that I chose but I didn’t have the boxford software as an option


Paul


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[Clive S]

Kit
It is the same kernel as the Buster one. But uses Mint and has a bit of other stuff installed as well like wifi dongle .

I just prefer it. I have tried both.

[depronman]

BernieNUFC - a massive thankyou for the PC's that arrived todays. I have cleared them out with an airline and installed LCNC on the better specced one.
Not conencted to the mill yet, but running the jitter test it looks very good at well under 20,000

Thanks again
Paul

[BernieNUFC]

great news thank you, glad to have helped

Bernie

[John11668]

Likewise Bernie !
Thanks from me . I havent got it up and running yet . Tells me Boot mgr is missing but I presume I will get some advice from here on how to deal with that, and I am guessing that a Linux install will have different requirements anyway !

John

[depronman]

Likewise Bernie !
Thanks from me . I havent got it up and running yet . Tells me Boot mgr is missing but I presume I will get some advice from here on how to deal with that, and I am guessing that a Linux install will have different requirements anyway !

John

Ya the hdd will have been wiped so the pc doesn’t see a boot manager which is normally part of the windows install
When you load linuxcnc it will then provide the linux boot manager and all will work perfectly

Paul


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[BernieNUFC]

If you have the boxford software and it’s all functional then maybe not
I’ve never tried the boxford software myself. I was told it was about £600 and the boxford would deal with educational establishments so even if my pockets had been deep enough then boxford would not sell it to me anyway

Also bear in mind that it was aimed at education as against industry and as such may be far from std in terms of G code etc
Are there any post processors that spit out boxford std g code ? As without this your life will be much harder

Linuxcnc is at least current and if there are any hardware issue then the electronics being replaced with new stepper drivers etc makes it all new and compatible
This is the root that I chose but I didn’t have the boxford software as an option


Paul


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Its better than i thought, its in brilliant condition and has all the cd's with manuals and software v10, it is loaded and working via usb on a win 10 pc and i have downloaded a 260 post processor for fusion that has been created by someone and i have asked the question if this will work on my 190, i am in a very very new area to what i am used to so need to go slowly, but i have to say i am excited :-)

[depronman]

I see no reason why the post processor would be different between the 190 260 & 300 vmc
They are all just larger versions of the smallest 190 machine
The addition of a tool changer would add complexity but not really to the post processor

I’ve never used the boxford software but suspect it is written for its target audience which is education and training but I see no reason why it will not be ok for the capabilities of what is a fairly small mill
A 4th axis (rotary table) may be the deal breaker but equally may be a capability in the boxford software

Let us know how it goes
Get yourself some polystyrene sheet to practice on it’s much cheaper that breaking cutters [emoji16]

Cheers and best of luck with it


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[BernieNUFC]

I think i might try to learn the intricacies of the machine with its own software have the manuals etc, i then hope that i can go Linux or mach3 and increase the capabilities i.e. 4th axis.
With that said if i can get to grips easier than expected maybe there will be a path to sell this on and get a bigger one that i can use at work as opposed for just my hobby, who knows ?
Polystyrene, nice one :-)
Cheers Paul

[depronman]

The foam insulation material in about 50mm thick is ideal

Paul


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[Doddy]

The foam insulation material in about 50mm thick is ideal

Paul


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Best advice I heard recently was Kingspan or similar - a better structure than polystyrene (okay, the dust will kill you - but that's better than the polystyrene balls electrostatically sticking to the inside of your workshop) and builders (around here at least) tend to sell on excess on the local Facebook sales sites.

EDIT: Actually, think I just repeated exactly what depronman had said (apologies - I saw "foam" but read "polystyrene"...and the Kingspan should be attributed to ngwagwa)

[BernieNUFC]

Thanks doddy, i have just pulled some out of my garage loft that was hanging around, will give it a try.
I have used a cnc router without too much problem as it was with vectric so most of the work was done and made some nice carvings and acrylic jobs but metal is a bit more difficult with fusion and this pp as i have no idea at that depth :-)
thank you

[depronman]

Update on the HP small format PC that Bernie kindlt sent me - it may help other
I have spent all evening trying to get linux to see two parallel ports

There is one onboard from the motherboard and I installed another PCI parport in the only avialable slot (White slote at the very right hand side of the m/b)
Firstly the PCI card MUST be a slim height one as the HP is not very tall, not a problem as the ones I bought from ebay a few weeks ago are slim enough but I will need to modify the mounting bracket or back plate of the card as its meant for a full height case

having fitted the card and rebooted fire up terminal and type in lspci -v
this reported the PCI cardat address 1100 and 1108
from past experience I know that you use the latter of the two addresses with 0x before it in linuxcnc hal file, so this means the pci card is seen at 0x1108
so far so good

now in termin type dmesg | grep parport
This reported -
parport0: 0x378 irq7
lp0: using parport0

So happy days linux can see both parallel ports

so, run a dummy stepconfig wizard, set to 2 parallel ports, crash any data in the rest of it
Start Linux and it crashes, stating it cannot find a parallel port
no great problem, i've had this issue before as Linuxcnc tries to define the parallel ports as 0 and 1, but this sometimes works and sometimes doesn't work, but you can amend this in the HAL file by using the actual address instead of 0 and 1

loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x0378 out 0x1108 in" this should do it

try to start linuxcnc, still crashes with same error

I spent 3 hours going round in circles, removing the pci parport, changed it for another one, tried another pci card in the slot on the M/B with a spare sound card, all worked perfectly
What the hell is going on !!!!!

Into the BIOS and set the parport on the M/B to bidirectional - same problem, set it to all possible setting, still the same problem, until I set it to disabled
You read this right DISABLED
saved BIOS setting and rebooted linux
run the above two terminal commands and was surprised that the PCI card AND the M/B port was still seen (even though the BIOS was told to disable the onboard parport)
Started Linuxcnc and no errors this time, into HALSHOW, pins, parports, 0, show all input pins (10, 11, 12, 13, 15) then port 1 show all input pins (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15)
connect a parallel cable to each port, using a jumper wire in pin 25 touch pin numbers above and HALSHOW lit up each pin
So, all is working correctly

But would you 'adam and eve it', it only works if the onboard parallel port is DISABLED in the BIOS

I thought it was worth posting my findings to save others getting frustrated / giving up

On another note - I cannot get linux mint to install from a pen drive, it will never start from the pen drive even after F9 for the boot menu and selecting USB Boot
The pen works on other PC's / laptops perfectly so its not a pen drive issue
Any help on this would be appreciated.

I installed Linuxcnc from a DVD, but only had the mint version on a pen drive. I can't find my stock of blank DVD disk to burn the mint iso to a DVD to try, will have a look tomorrow when her in doors is at work (sure she as put them somewhere safe)

Cheers,
Paul

[John11668]

I found something similar when installing a second Graphics card om a SFF pc.
Had to nominate one or the other

[depronman]

I found something similar when installing a second Graphics card om a SFF pc.
Had to nominate one or the other

The strange think though is in the bios the mb par port is disabled but is still seen by Linux and used
Makes me think that either Linux is cleverer than the bios or the bios as a bug in it and is not actually disabling the par port but it is doing summit as with it enabled Linuxcnc will not use the blinking port
Paul


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[NB70]

I don't know if you have tried the linuxcnc forum - but I've always found them really helpful
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/
(https://forum.linuxcnc.org/)

[John11668]

I tried to install linux via a pen drive but comes up with an error message (Hal file missing)
I was wondering about going this route ,, doesnt break the bank
https://www.softwarerepairworld.com/products/ubuntu-linux-14-04-32-bit-operating-system-install-live-bootable-dvd?variant=21858960199&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=Bing%20PLA&utm_campaign=United%20Kingdom&utm_term=linux%20operating%20system%2032%20bit&utm_content

Having said that it is almost bewildering the number of options available to download on the linux site and I wonder which to go for .

[depronman]

I tried to install linux via a pen drive but comes up with an error message (Hal file missing)
I was wondering about going this route ,, doesnt break the bank
https://www.softwarerepairworld.com/products/ubuntu-linux-14-04-32-bit-operating-system-install-live-bootable-dvd?variant=21858960199&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=Bing%20PLA&utm_campaign=United%20Kingdom&utm_term=linux%20operating%20system%2032%20bit&utm_content

Having said that it is almost bewildering the number of options available to download on the linux site and I wonder which to go for .

I may be wrong but I do know that the Linux version you need must have a real time (RT) kernel
I know that latter versions of Linux had issues with this I also think this is only important when using a parallel port as a Mesa card will generate the real time pulses where as when using a par port linuxcnc must generate them hence the need for RT kernel

If you go to the linuxcnc web site you can download an iso file. Use rufus in windows to burn this to a dvd. Rufus makes the iso bootable
You can then trial linuxcnc on any pc laptop etc with a dvd drive. Just put the dvd in and turn on the pc. Assuming the bios boot order is disc then hdd it will load up Linux from the dvd but NOT install it onto the hard drive. If all goes ok and you want to install Linux then reboot with the dvd still in the drive and there is a menu option to do a. Graphical install Takes about 10 mins to install
This will give you Linux and linuxcnc
You can then upgrade linuxcnc to the latter versions if you want to. V2.8.0 being the latest official release.
Give me a call and I can talk you through this if it’s still not clear

Paul


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[Muzzer]

You should be able to boot off a USB pen drive but did you make it a bootable drive first? Many (most?) laptops don't have DVD drives these days, so it's a common thing to do.

Installation gets easier each iteration it seems. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40216-installing-mint-19-3-linuxcnc#184773

[depronman]

You should be able to boot off a USB pen drive but did you make it a bootable drive first? Many (most?) laptops don't have DVD drives these days, so it's a common thing to do.

Installation gets easier each iteration it seems. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40216-installing-mint-19-3-linuxcnc#184773

No it appears the pc in question doesn’t like the booting from a pen drive
The same pen drive boots a laptop and a MacBook Pro without problems so certainly a pc issue

I have this afternoon burned the iso image to a dvd and now started the pc perfectly and installed mint19.3 with linuxcnc v2.8.0
Happy days
Paul


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[John11668]

I must admit that I get mightily perplexed by the jargon these software folks speak .
I am not illiterate , nor am I unintelligent , but I am totally at a loss with their instructions , and the software I have looked (like Rufus ) is anything but intuitive.
I am an engineer , I can do a bit of wiring, and have a passing aquaintance with rudimentary electronics . I am also English..
Why cant the software guys speak english too?

Or better still produce a bootable disc which does the equivalent of a windows disc. Lets face it we want to make our machines work.
We dont want to be software gurus.

[Clive S]

Or better still produce a bootable disc which does the equivalent of a windows disc. Lets face it we want to make our machines work.

Sorry but it can't be more simple than this that I posted earlier in the thread

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38932-linuxcnc-package-repos-for-mint-19-x-ubuntu-18-04-aka-bionic-beaver-mint-iso?start=0

it is an ISO so you can copy it to a dvd or use Etcher to make a bootable USB you might have to go into the bios to change the boot order for the usb.

You have to remember that cd and dvd drives ore disappearing .

Edit: To use Etcher download the iso then fire Etcher up and use that to flash the usb

https://www.balena.io/etcher/?ref=etcher_footer

[Doddy]

I must admit that I get mightily perplexed by the jargon these software folks speak .
I am not illiterate , nor am I unintelligent , but I am totally at a loss with their instructions , and the software I have looked (like Rufus ) is anything but intuitive.


I've a wry smile on my face as I type this. If you think that is bad... welcome to LinuxCNC :)

Yes, I know you're talking about the ISO burner, and I'll admit to not having tried that particular package, but you're gonna need a cup of tea and a pack of HobNobs if you're going to get your head around LinuxCNC. Standard setups are fairly straight forward, but go off piste and you'll be grinding your teeth.

[depronman]

I must admit that I get mightily perplexed by the jargon these software folks speak .
I am not illiterate , nor am I unintelligent , but I am totally at a loss with their instructions , and the software I have looked (like Rufus ) is anything but intuitive.
I am an engineer , I can do a bit of wiring, and have a passing aquaintance with rudimentary electronics . I am also English..
Why cant the software guys speak english too?

Or better still produce a bootable disc which does the equivalent of a windows disc. Lets face it we want to make our machines work.
We dont want to be software gurus.

Hi John
I would be happy to burn you a dvd with the mint Linux and linuxcnc 2.8.0
I have used this very dvd today to set the HP of that arrives this week
Instal could not be simpler. Power on the pc. Open the dvd tray and pop in the dvd disk
Power off and then back on and press f9 and f10 repeatedly
You will get a boot selection screen. Select disk and wait a few seconds
Mint will start to boot up from the dvd

Once into the mint desktop there is disk icon on the desktop that you click to install mint and linuxcnc onto the desktop

Cheers. Paul


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[BernieNUFC]

No it appears the pc in question doesn’t like the booting from a pen drive
Paul
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Come on...im not going to send you a PC that works :-D

[depronman]

I've a wry smile on my face as I type this. If you think that is bad... welcome to LinuxCNC :)

Yes, I know you're talking about the ISO burner, and I'll admit to not having tried that particular package, but you're gonna need a cup of tea and a pack of HobNobs if you're going to get your head around LinuxCNC. Standard setups are fairly straight forward, but go off piste and you'll be grinding your teeth.

I could not agree more Doddy
Every time I think I understand linuxcnc configuration I realise that I don’t
But I am getting there and the linuxcnc forum is excellent

The stepconfig wizard gets you the basic machine up and running then you built it up from there. I’ve eaten more than one packet of chocolate hobnobs [emoji23][emoji106]

Don’t forget the parport configuration that I posted yesterday this tool me all evening to work out that the parport must be disabled in the bios This allows it to be seen along with a pci parport by Linux
This makes no sense to me but it worked on both versions of Linux and on linuxcnc 2.7.14. 2.7.15. 2.8. 2.9


Paul


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[depronman]

Come on...im not going to send you a PC that works :-D

It works perfectly Bernie, just doesn’t like booting from a pen drive
Give it a dvd with the iso on it and it was as happy as Larry
It just took me some time to find my box of blank DVD’s. The mrs had put them somewhere safe

I guess bootable pen drives were not a thing in 2009 [emoji23][emoji2957]

I still can’t get over how quiet the HP PC is you can hear a pin drop when it’s on

Cheers. Paul


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[depronman]

You should be able to boot off a USB pen drive but did you make it a bootable drive first? Many (most?) laptops don't have DVD drives these days, so it's a common thing to do.

Installation gets easier each iteration it seems. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40216-installing-mint-19-3-linuxcnc#184773

Yes the pen drive is bootable. It’s been used to boot into Linux on numerous different PC’s laptops and even a MacBook Pro

I also entered the PC’s boot menu just after the bios

When I burned an dvd with the iso the pc booted up find using the dvd

Paul


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[John11668]

Hi folks and thanks for the flurry of constructive help.
I have managed to make a boot drive , installed linuxmint as an OEM install wiping all other stuff on the way, and am accessing this forum via LM.
Will clearly get used to it and when I do I will download linux CNC.

May need a socially distanced gathering to set up CNC but could just about manage that with someone sitting on top the Bantam, the washing machine (for overalls ) would be a comfortable perch in the other corner , and if someone doesnt mind sitting on the Khasi then we could just about manage ,:smile:

Hobnobs or pasties depending on preference , and tea for man and beast.
Who would need a Forum??

All I need now is to get this "Effing" TCL 125 into running order and I think I am getting close .
Maybe still need some help on the spindle relay to get there :smile:

[Clive S]

I have managed to make a boot drive , installed linuxmint as an OEM install wiping all other stuff on the way, and am accessing this forum via LM.
Will clearly get used to it and when I do I will download linux CNC.


Did you do it from the link I gave you.
.

If so you also have linuxcnc.
.

I must admit that I get mightily perplexed by the jargon these software folks speak .
You mean like this:-
and am accessing this forum via LM.

[Doddy]

Might need a LinuxCNC expert here - can LinuxCNC and the real-time kernel be easily installed on a Mint base installation? (I've only ever installed the LinuxCNC/Debian prebuilt package?

Reason I ask, John, is if not you may need to install the LinuxCNC ISO image similar to what Clive links to, in which case I wouldn't go too far down the path you're following, if you find yourself re-installing down the line

[Clive S]

Might need a LinuxCNC expert here - can LinuxCNC and the real-time kernel be easily installed on a Mint base installation? (I've only ever installed the LinuxCNC/Debian prebuilt package?

Reason I ask, John, is if not you may need to install the LinuxCNC ISO image similar to what Clive links to, in which case I wouldn't go too far down the path you're following, if you find yourself re-installing down the line

The link I put up is https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38932-linuxcnc-package-repos-for-mint-19-x-ubuntu-18-04-aka-bionic-beaver-mint-iso#165631 the RT version with Mint with linuxcnc and wifi support and is simple to upgrade .

In a terminal type

sudo apt-get update
then
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

will get you the latest packages


If you want the official version :- http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc-2.8.0-buster.iso The Debian 10 Buster ISO uses a PREEMPT-RT patch

But in my opinion the mint one is a lot more user friendly.

[depronman]

My understanding is Doddy is correct
Linuxcnc needs the RT kernel
The link provided is for an iso of Linux mint 19.3 which also includes linuxcnc 2.8.0 already installed
This means that someone (beagle brain from memory) as already done the hard work and integrated linuxcnc into Linux mint

If I was John I would take the easy route abs use the iso with all of the hard work already done for you

Paul


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[John11668]

Will have a look again in the light of day .
In all honesty Clive I got so lost amongst what google threw up that I "muddled "my way through, but no harm done as I can easily go back to square one and start afresh. With a clean box little is lost.
At least I now know that Bernies box works ( Thanks again Bernie) and I now know how to make a bootable drive , So at least one step forward when I go your route Clive .
.
I quite like the clean desktop of linux so will try to keep it that way and leave all the rubbish on the windows machine.
I still have Mach3 and UCCNC on there for the mill , so maybe have to get used to switching. between operating systems

[Clive S]

Will have a look again in the light of day .
In all honesty Clive I got so lost amongst what google threw up that I "muddled "my way through, but no harm done as I can easily go back to square one and start afresh. With a clean box little is lost.
At least I now know that Bernies box works ( Thanks again Bernie) and I now know how to make a bootable drive , So at least one step forward when I go your route Clive .
.
I quite like the clean desktop of linux so will try to keep it that way and leave all the rubbish on the windows machine.
I still have Mach3 and UCCNC on there for the mill , so maybe have to get used to switching. between operating systems

John
Its no use to try and download linux from anywhere but from the linuxcnc site that is where the links came from that I gave you.

The site that you linked to is charging you £9 for a 32 bit version of linux which is FREE . You need the 64 bit version from the linuxcnc site as it need a real time kernel.

Please re read this post from the beginning. It is not as complicated as you make out. I will even post you a usb stick with linuxcnc on it and it will load linuxcnc in 10mins

Sorry to be pedantic but these days linuxcnc has never been easier to load.

[Doddy]

John
Sorry to be pedantic but these days linuxcnc has never been easier to load.

Sorry to hijack the thread - Clive - I'm keen to try Mint - do you know if it's possible/easy to install alongside another (Debian) install?, I really don't want to trash my Deb. install just yet, but I do prefer Ubuntu to Debian, and I guess Mint will provide a closer experience to Ubuntu.

EDIT: And, apologies Clive - the link you pointed to (I'm there now to download your recommended ISO) also includes the instructions how to update a base Mint install to include the RT kernel, LinuxCNC etc, although I do think a clean install from an ISO provides the lowest risk hassle-free install.

[Clive S]

EDIT: And, apologies Clive - the link you pointed to (I'm there now to download your recommended ISO) also includes the instructions how to update a base Mint install to include the RT kernel, LinuxCNC etc, although I do think a clean install from an ISO provides the lowest risk hassle-free install.

IF I am not mistaken you can boot the iso and it will load a live version to see it and won't overwrite the HD until you click on the iso button on the desktop. It is a good idea to be connected to the internet when installing .

In your case why not just swap out the HD for another and test it out on that. Then you can always put the other HD back.

One very good think with linux is that you can generally move HD's around from machine to machine without issue.

If anybody is interested.
I am considering making a post about the HAL and INI files to simplify or try to explain what they and how they work as I know there is a lot of confusion around this. But as you know I am not good at explaining stuff.

[Doddy]

IF I am not mistaken you can boot the iso and it will load a live version to see it and won't overwrite the HD until you click on the iso button on the desktop. It is a good idea to be connected to the internet when installing .


I'd prefer to install - then I can go a long way to breaking things with other package installs etc, configuration, customisation, but with a view of stepping back from the cliff and recovering back to normal if it all goes wrong.


In your case why not just swap out the HD for another and test it out on that. Then you can always put the other HD back.

One very good think with linux is that you can generally move HD's around from machine to machine without issue.


Sigh!, you must think I've hard-drives just lying around.... Oh!, I do. Fair point, will take that approach (though will need to copy my machine installation first.



I am considering making a post about the HAL and INI files to simplify or try to explain what they and how they work as I know there is a lot of confusion around this. But as you know I am not good at explaining stuff.

Happy to review technically if you want a second pair of eyes. No ulterior motive other than knowing it can be useful having a second pair of eyes/perspective. Does it belong here?, possibly not, but although there is substantial documentation on LinuxCNC sites/forums, it's very regimented and fragmented, and doesn't bring different topics together well.

[depronman]

IF I am not mistaken you can boot the iso and it will load a live version to see it and won't overwrite the HD until you click on the iso button on the desktop. It is a good idea to be connected to the internet when installing .

In your case why not just swap out the HD for another and test it out on that. Then you can always put the other HD back.

One very good think with linux is that you can generally move HD's around from machine to machine without issue.

If anybody is interested.
I am considering making a post about the HAL and INI files to simplify or try to explain what they and how they work as I know there is a lot of confusion around this. But as you know I am not good at explaining stuff.

I can confirm that when you start the pc with the mint iso from either a pen drive or dvd it does not install mint instead it loads mint and lets you look around and run linuxcnc but will not save any configs. You can run the jitter year etc but I did get slightly worse results until I installed mint on the hdd
If you are happy with mint then there is an ‘install to hard disk icon’ icon on the desktop. Click this and it’s all done in a matter of 10mins

All the best. Paul


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[Doddy]

I can confirm that when you start the pc with the mint iso from either a pen drive or dvd it does not install mint instead it loads mint and lets you look around and run linuxcnc but will not save any configs. You can run the jitter year etc but I did get slightly worse results until I installed mint on the hdd
If you are happy with mint then there is an ‘install to hard disk icon’ icon on the desktop. Click this and it’s all done in a matter of 10mins

All the best. Paul


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Cheers depronman (hey!, you're local to me!), I do foresee a reboot or two during configuration, so would want to install to disk before making my mind up. I was hoping there was a positive "no worries - just dual-install/boot through grub", but it does feel safer to swap out a HD (that I had to remove a spare HD from my keyboard at 6am this morning kinda amplifies this as a solution).

[depronman]

Yes we live not very far away from each other
Not sure I fully understand you last post

Paul


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[Doddy]

Yes we live not very far away from each other
Not sure I fully understand you last post


Unwarranted concern that I'd have to make system changes that would need to be committed to disk and rebooted (e.g. network configurations across twin NICs, including static configuration for the Mesa-based LAN interface (separate to the main interface) - usually if you have to tweak system files you're either restarting services or rebooting. My expectation was that the install was booting from a read-only filesystem into ram - I think that's what the Debian install does (can't remember now), BUT... just tried a boot from USB and was able to copy my machine config over, rebuild my custom HAL components, uplift my machine configuration automatically) and got the lathe running under Mint/LinuxCNC 2.8 within about 10 minutes.

Too late to cancel the same-day order for the removable drive-bay adapter.

Mint looks, for the 15 minutes I've played with it, much more comfortable than Debian.

[depronman]

Yes I would agree on the mint look and feel over Debian

Good result on the swift changeover
I have a couple of hard drives with a Debian setup on my orac lathe. I’m feeling the need to move that to mint as well. But really need to concentrate on the boxford atm

Paul


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[clutchslip]

Hi All,

Just adding my name to the Linux / Mint / LinuxCNC party going on here. This will be the basis for my Boxford tcl240 conversion that I know a few of you have already commented on (thanks). I snagged a PC yesterday, and have collected a screen and some other bits and pieces together, and now have the prepackaged Mint/Linux iso waiting on a usb drive (thanks for the link) and GParted on a CD ready to get to work on an old hard drive..... I'll let you know how I get on once Ive located a VGA cable to plug my monitor in!

Ade

[depronman]

I made another attempt using ‘etcher’ to copy the mint iso to a pen drive
All very straight forward to use etcher and the pen drive worked perfectly even on the
HP pc that previously did not like the pen drive

Etcher 1. Rufus 0. I k ow which I’ll be using in the future

Made good progress today getting a hb04 wireless pendant working and set up
Still got a small problem with the step size selection which is not working quite as it should


Paul


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[John11668]

I didnt find rufus user friendly.
I used win32 disc imager and downloaded mint from clive's linked site
Not being used to linux (never seen it before) it took me a while to find the linuxcncfiles and select lathe from the plethora of configurations , but I have it now with a desktop Icon.

Still puzzled a bit as to how to configure it though .

No problem for now as I need to finish the wiring yet and as I said before I will check this out using Mach 3
Then will come back for specific tuition on Linuxcnc

[Clive S]

Not being used to linux (never seen it before) it took me a while to find the linuxcncfiles and select lathe from the plethora of configurations , but I have it now with a desktop Icon.

I think you may have got a sim working. If you have that lets you play about and use the gui but won't drive a machine.

If you are going to use a P/port the you need to use the stepconf wizard to get started http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/stepconf.html

[depronman]

I think you may have got a sim working. If you have that lets you play about and use the gui but won't drive a machine.

If you are going to use a P/port the you need to use the stepconf wizard to get started http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/stepconf.html

I think you will be right there (sim only)
Paul


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[John11668]

so this is what I was looking at

28996

Maybe I just need to send Clive a pen drive .

[Clive S]

so this is what I was looking at

28996

Maybe I just need to send Clive a pen drive .

Pat yourself on the back :applouse: you have the pendrive

Ok you have linuxcnc loaded but what you have there is the sim. :yahoo: you have Linuxcnc but the error is showing that the pc might have to be setup by changing some setting in the bios

Now find the wizard and use stepconf to make a real working config.

are you going to use a P/port ?

See my post with the link to stepconf

[clutchslip]

Thanks for the heads-up on Etcher Paul, I used this and the iso booted first time.

My jitter readings are crazy high with my Dell. Going to try with external graphics and see where that get me but may need to change to a different motherboard, we shall see

Ade

[John11668]

Should I be looking at my "Jitter" readings
Until this thread started I did not even know I had any ????

[Doddy]

Crazy high = ??, out of curiosity.

[clutchslip]

Hi Doddy.

With everything I can shut down in bios shut down, excepting a pair of rear panel usb ports, with the machine at IDLE, I have 'Max Jitter' figures of Servo 122,194 and Base Thread 52,639....

[depronman]

Hi Doddy.

With everything I can shut down in bios shut down, excepting a pair of rear panel usb ports, with the machine at IDLE, I have 'Max Jitter' figures of Servo 122,194 and Base Thread 52,639....

That is very high
I think on the HP slime PC I’m seeing 15,000 to 34,000
If was thrashing the pc. Gear display running and on internet opening and closing web pages etc

I have set max jitter in the linuxcnc configuration at 50,000 to be on the safe side

Paul


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[depronman]

Crazy high = ??, out of curiosity.

You should be looking for < 40,000
On a lathe a CV little higher will not hurt
You are running the same HP pc as I will be using (yes). If so then the max jitter is really quite low
Can likely be improved with an external graphics card as linuxcnc is not recommended with onboard graphics which share system ram
But having said that I’m getting quite low max jitter readings anyway so I think all will be ok

It’s an option from the linuxcnc menus to run test max jitter
Set it running then abuse the pc as best you can and come back to the results after about 10 mins and use the result displayed in your linuxcnc config
What it actually does is inform linuxcnc how much resource is available to process things. When it runs out it would be bad so it limits movement speed to a slower love per second to fit within the available resources
You are not going to hit this on a small lathe as first only two axis are being moved at any time and secondly the steppers are not micro stepping down to really low values. I think I run mine at 4 micro steps which means one Rev of motor (4mm true movement) is a total of 800 pulses
You can imagine as the micro stepping is increased, some run 64 micro steps, that the number of step direction pulses increase very quickly for the same amount of physical movement
Then
Multiply this by three axis movement potentially all at the same time on a mill and you can see that pc resources are a lot more critical on a mill than a lathe

Paul


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[BernieNUFC]

Anyone tell me what these buttons are for please?
29043

[depronman]

Anyone tell me what these buttons are for please?
29043

I would think trip reset buttons for various thing
Maybe axis movement is one. Spindle / cutter rotation would be another

Paul


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[depronman]

Any change of a picture or two of the front of the machine please


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[BernieNUFC]

Mine is identical to this
29044

[depronman]

So a slightly newer version than mine is
What does the blue button at the large section of the control panel do. Mine does not have that

Paul


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[BernieNUFC]

That powers it up, main isolator round he side, you then have to operate the Em stop and then last the blue button before you can do ANYTHING :-)

[depronman]

Bloody he’ll need a degree to power up the bloody thing
Ya gotta love Boxford
That will explain why the schools never used the machines they would never figure out how to turn it on[emoji2957]


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[BernieNUFC]

Well its a good safety feature for them then :-D

[Kitwn]

I've said this before but it's worth repeating:

Many tears and hours of work can be saved when playing about with new operating systems or any other changes to an existing, working computer by buying a dual bay USB docking station and a spare HD as Clive has suggested. THE VERY FIRST THING YOU DO is use the docking station to make a clone of your currently working drive and put it somewhere safe. Now you can mess about to your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that it's all reversible.

I've used this process several times over the years and the cost is negligible in comparison to the time and anguish it saves.

How often have we all wanted there to be a nice big "UNDO LAST MISTAKE" button in our lives? For computers this is it.

[BernieNUFC]

Hi Kitwn

Thank you for a reminder, the first thing i did after getting it was to clone the hard drive :-) so i can relax a bit now

Cheers

[Kitwn]

Hi Kitwn

Thank you for a reminder, the first thing i did after getting it was to clone the hard drive :-) so i can relax a bit now

Cheers

You're welcome. Good luck with the project.

[John11668]

Pat yourself on the back :applouse: you have the pendrive

Ok you have linuxcnc loaded but what you have there is the sim. :yahoo: you have Linuxcnc but the error is showing that the pc might have to be setup by changing some setting in the bios

Now find the wizard and use stepconf to make a real working config.

are you going to use a P/port ?

See my post with the link to stepconf

OK so I have been otherwise engaged for a day or two but looks like Boris is giving me some time on my hands .
I have been using Mach and UCCNC with the UC100controller ( I was led to believe it was needed for Mach 3 to run on 64bit machine )
Is it OK to use it with linux or am I better to use just a straight parallel lead .

I will see if I can get into the the stepconfig stuff but dont be be surprised if I come back screaming for help and looking for someone to hold my hand.

[Clive S]

I have been using Mach and UCCNC with the UC100controller ( I was led to believe it was needed for Mach 3 to run on 64bit machine )
Is it OK to use it with linux or am I better to use just a straight parallel lead .

I don't know anything about UC100 controller. I don't think it will work with linuxcnc as Lcnc is a controller.

Also you can not use Lcnc to control a machine through the USB port.

So you can use a P/port or a Mesa card or Pico.

Have you got Lcnc up and running and found the stepconf wizard ?

[John11668]

Not yet clive . Just preparing to have a go Will go with the parallel port .
Let me give it a try and I will come back.