6040Z controller

[RichardR]

29001
29002
Dummy back in, a new day, so I will try and post some pictures, my questions are
1 can I wire home switches to this pub and if so where
2 corresponding to the hole marked Probe on the back of the case there is some empty holes on the PCB marked Probe, can I solder a socket for one on it and will it work, looking at the underside of the board there is not any tracks from these holes to any components
3 will I need to alter the switches on the units marked XYZ?
Regards Richard

[Clive S]

Richard. I think you will need to post a better picture as it seems to be out of focus and for me it is impossible to read anything on it .

Can you post a bigger pic. from the top and bottom?

Just noticed you have started another post this makes it confusing for people to follow please keep all the questions in one place.

[RichardR]

Sorry for starting another post but it was the only way I could post a picture, as it does not seem to give me the option of how to post another picture on a reply, I can take a better picture with my camera then transfer to the computer to post it, but can you tell me how to actually post a picture without starting a new thread?

[Clive S]

Have you tried the advanced tab?

[Doddy]

Re. Clive - Yes, the picture of the top of the board is particularly bad. Also, agreed with post-in-one-place, but we're here now so let's move onwards.

OP: You have to acknowledge the image is difficult to interpret, but we can deduce the following:-

It's a parallel port interface (the big black 25W connector on the left of the image as viewed). That immediately gives us options in terms of a replacement BoB, if necessary, although the board looks to be rather compact - we can't tell if a replacement board would actually physically fit, but we can play with that with a better photo.

If I take my glasses off, the image swims into... less focus... okay, worth a try. But, I have to admit that the connectivity to the board appears just to be power (lower right) followed by 4-axis drivers (the four four-wire interfaces above that). And NOTHING ELSE?! The circuitry around the lower-right connector I would guess to be a local 5V logic supply for the board (hmmm, maybe... pretty heavy duty if it is), and board silkscreen printing appears to show a power jack (not fitted), some jumpers - not fitted (although there's a two-pin jumper fit, but can't read the silkscreening around that). What isn't evident are the usual 5x digital inputs - used for E-Stop/Probe/X-Limit/Y-Limit/Z-Limit (conventionally, although can be used for practically any function). Nor any suggestion of the usual opto-isolated inputs to support these.

We do need a better image and to understand how much you're prepare to play with this. I'm half guessing (through squinted eyes) that the board does not support additional inputs, as would be required for the limit switches. A cheap Chinese BoB will likely work well (if we can work out the pinouts for compatible connectors to the existing wiring looms), and would cost less than a tenner, and give you a more conventional interface. That would work almost as a plug-and-play swap for the existing board - though you'd have to map the new input(s) through onto Mach3/whatever-you-use. It's an option.

For now though - as much as a buggeration as it is - clear photos would really help.

[Doddy]

29004

Crude arrow pointing to where you attach a photo.

[RichardR]

This is about as good as I can get, I hope this works

29005
29006
29007
29008

[Doddy]

Perfect. However the connectors that you need are not fit to board - just the solder pads for them. That's not bad, it's 10 minutes work to add the connectors if you want to persue this. My question - how's your soldering?

erm, just a point - the 25W connector is missing it's shroud (steel "D" shaped form that surrounds the pins) - is that still attached to the case?

[RichardR]

My soldering is near on perfect, I have Two temp controlled, fine tip irons, heat sinks etc., just lacking the electronics capability, but was a white goods and small appliance repair person for 50 years, so I can do as I am advised so long as I have some sort of diagram to follow

[RichardR]

The two pin E stop plug is in the loom, I had to unplug it to pull the pcb out

[Doddy]

There's some silk-screen printing on the board (first pic) - a box surrounding a 2x3 grid of holes filled with solder, with XYZ printed against these. You'll need a bit of solder wick to clean the solder out of the holes/pads, then get a 2x3 0.1" pitch header, insert into the board and solder in place. Then you need a a cable form to connect into there (many choices, google Dupont connectors) - to make off the cables for the axis sensors. and run these to each of the three axis microswitches.

[Doddy]

Something like


29009

Is all you need, and could be in the post tomorrow if you can't source them yourself.

[RichardR]

Thanks, What about the Probe, I presume I need to get the correct socket for the probe lead, solder that to the three holes and take two wires to the solder pads marked Probe

[RichardR]

I have had a look on amazon but there are so many sizes, but cant seem to find anything 0.1 in size, I would like to fit some sort of connecter on the back of the unit so I can actually plug the wires to the limit switches into that

[Doddy]

Looks like, from here, a 3.5mm jack socket, or a barrel-jack, something like...

29011

But without measuring kinda guessing.

You'd use EITHER that or add another 2-pin connector to the Probe inputs, then take the wires to the probe.

EDIT:

Okay, just read your reply - yeah, it could be a good idea to eat some holes into the case and mount some appropriate chassis connectors, then route these back to this board.

[RichardR]

Thanks for your help, sourced the parts I needed and you were spot on with the pitch of the pins,I got all I need from radio spares except the jack socket for the probe, I think I failed to add one to my order and never noticed.I
The six micro switches are all fitted, just need to wire them up, can you tell me the best way to wire them bearing in mind the controller I have and the Mach3 operating software, in parallel or series?

[Doddy]

You don't "need" the jack - you could just use a pair of the 0.1" headers and a 2-way socket. But horses for courses.

You don't need independent X/Y/Z inputs - you could wire all microswitches, normally-closed contacts in series. Or, keep it simple and wire each pair for each axis in series.

I would recommend reading the Mach3 manual - it deals with this quite well. In particular read up on homing switches and soft-limits.

[RichardR]

Thanks for that, the pcb has three holes for a Jack socket and a hole in the cabinet that lines up with it also marked probe, so I thought I would use it, I have decided to take things one step at a time, however I have been reading older threads dealing with limit switches and Home switches, I am now not sure whether I am doing things correctly, as I initially thought they were the same thing, on the pcb it has a 2x3 pin header marked XYZ is this for home switches or limit switches?

[RichardR]

Just re-read your reply now I am confused, limit switches, homing switches and soft limit switches?

[Doddy]

Limit switches I think you understand already. Home switches are used to establish a position on an axis. Soft limits are software imposed limits, given a known reference point (eg home position). So with homing sensory/switch and soft limits you don’t “need” limit switches. It’s all in the manual.

[JAZZCNC]

The other advantage of soft limits is that mach3 won't let you jog into the limits and slows the machine to a nice controlled stop. It also checks your G-code and if you are going to pass the soft limits warns you.

Home switches are priceless and if you are going to the trouble of fitting limits you'd be silly not use them as home switches as well.

[Doddy]

Just to add to Jazz's comment, and possibly to head off the next question, apart from position (limit switches on the extremes of travel, home switches at some arbitrary position within the extremes of travel - possible a limit switch) - the distinction is made within the Mach3 settings - you'll bind an input (Pin 11/12/13 - assume X/Y/Z, according to the silk-screen printing on the board) to a function (limit/home) within the Mach3 inputs, then Mach3 takes over from there.

[RichardR]

Thank you both, I have read some of the manual, but was watching some utube clips by the Guru Brew and he explains it really well and I think I am getting to understand things more, re pin numbers and setting up that to mach3, anyway I have fitted the switches and hoping to wire them up this afternoon once I have finished refitting the pcb and the 4pin plug and socket I will start to set it up again, I have forgotten Everything I manager to do in 2016 before my operation stopped me doing anymore hopefully I can refer to the U tube clips to go forward, if I get stuck then I hope I can ask on here again

[RichardR]

A quick question about the jack socket, the ring that you screw on to fix it will be ground, as it is part of the connection, now the ground on the pcb is not connectted to the chassis, so if I fix this to the cabinet will it affect anything?
I hope that makes sense

[Doddy]

Hmmm, To be honest, I don't know. Chances are it'll be okay, provided that barrel is expected to be the probe "-" line. But, I wouldn't claim that I know.


EDIT: Just a thought - is the steel shroud of the DB25 connector not also connected to the board ground, and is this not bonded to the enclosure?

[RichardR]

Not sure what a DB25 connector is

Just call me thick, but I have fitted and wired the micro switches and followed the set up instructions and also watched a utube video of how to configure them as limit and home switches, but it is not operating on the switches.
I got to the part where it says go to the diagnostic page and the three home led's should light up when the switches are operated, they are on permanent and do not even go off when the switch is operated. I have played about with the settings to no avail.
I have tried setting X to pin 10 and Y to pin 11 and Z to pin 12 in configuration that makes no difference so have set them back to pin 10 as per the manual.
I have control of X Y Z on the keyboard so I know that is working
What am I doing wrong?

[Doddy]

DB25 -- sorry - that's the connector that you plug the PC into.

Okay, no drama with what you've said so far. I've not used Mach3 for a while so some of this detail may be a bit off (someone will correct me!), but on the Diagnostic page there's indication of the various pins (not necessarily the ones bound to functions like Home - but the input pins 10,11,12,13,14) - observe those with the switches you've added. The silk-screen printing on the board indicates that X is input pin 11, Y=12, Z=13 - just look to see if those change in response to the switch actuation.

If not - pull the sockets from the board and just short the adjacent pins for X (then separately for Y, then Z) - should be evidenced on pins 11/12/13.

If that works then we know the wiring is good, and the rest is just Mach3 settings.

[JAZZCNC]

The LED's being on isn't an issue it just means you need to change the Active Hi/Lo for each switch. However, the fact it doesn't go off when you operate the switch shows something is wrong.

What type of switches did you fit and what polarity ie: NO (Normally open) or NC(normally closed). If the LED's didn't change when you changed the switch state then I would suspect your BOB hack isn't working or the wiring is wrong.

[Clive S]

10,11,12,13,14

Just for the sake of others this should be 10,11,12,13,15

[RichardR]

Not sure what a BOB hack is, anyway I went back out to the garage and started from the begining, only this time the home let's did not even light, so again I am getting in a muddle, I tied to do an auto detect on the switches, that didn't work. I will check out that the pins I soldered on the board where it said XYZ to to, looking at the DB25 which is pin one, I assume it is top left.
I have a manual as well as the configuration guide, but I am having trouble understanding the manual, I need a Mach3 for dummies book :-)
I have put a post on my village Facebook page asking for help, but I doubt it anyone is daft enough to have a cnc machine and also want to get involved :-)
I am getting to think at 71 I may be too old too old for my brain to learn much more
Still tomorrow is another day

[JAZZCNC]

The board you soldered the pins to is a break out board BOB hence the BOB hack.

Richard don't get disheartened it will be something simple.

You need to break this down into small pieces.
First you need to verify the wiring is correct so check this first.
Then you need to detemine if the signals are getting through and the BOB Hack worked.

Now Mach3.!

Mach3 or any other controller for that matter all work the same in that they need to communicate with outside world through some external device, in your case the parallel port which is connected to the BOB you messed with. They do this by taking the PIN #'s which are connected to physical devices on the machine and assigning them to functions the controller deals with.

Now Mach3 can be broken down into 4 separate sections which control the working of the machine. INPUTS, OUTPUTS, MOTOR OUTPUTS and SPINDLE.
You are only interested in the INPUTS section because a LIMIT is telling mach3 to DO SOMETHING.

I'm going to give an example just setting up the X axis, just repeat for the other axis and change the PIn #.

So first you need to know which PIN # you connected the X axis Limit switch to. I'm going to use PIN 11 in this example.

So go to the PORTS N PINS / INPUTS section of mach3 and you'll see X++ and X-- enable these with green tick. Next is the port # this will usually be 1 if using parallel port.
Next is the PIN Number, in this example I'm entering 11.

Finally the Active Low.
This is toggled depending on how you wired the switch. ie: NO or NC
If you wired NC (normally closed) switches then you want Mach3 to DO SOMETHING when the switch goes LOW, or put another way when it sees the voltage on PIN11 switch OFF.
If you wired them NO (normally open) then mach would only DO SOMETHING when it sees voltage appear on the PIN. The PIN goes HIGH.

It's that simple and if your BOB is letting the Signals through and the wiring is correct then Mach3 will see them and respond.

HOWEVER if any of these settings is wrong then Mach3 knows nothing and will DO NOTHING. It's common with new users to Blame Mach3 but mach3 only does what YOU tell it so if you give it Duff Info or it doesn't see the Signals getting through then it won't work now matter how much they bitch about it.

If you are sure you have the correct PIN # entered and the Port # and it still doesn't work then it's 99% either the BOB or the Wiring not letting the signal through.

[RichardR]

Thank you for all your advice, as long as the boss allows me back out into the garage, :-) I have been hiding in there a lot and ignoring her.
I will see if I can trace the wiring from the BOB to the plug and see if it has linked through to it, if it has I will note the pin number, am I correct in thinking that it goes from left to right from the top row ( the one with the most pins) as to look at the plug. I know that the wiring to the switches is correct as it is wired n/c and I have already checked that.
I did wonder if the BOB was not suitable for the mod, but I will know later this morning I hope :-)
I did try to search for another controller putting 6040S in the search box but nothing came up I was hoping to find one with a connection for switches.
I will get there,

[Doddy]

My opinion : The BoB should be suited for the mod.

Squinting at the PCB images, it appears that there's a SIL resistor package that pulls-up the parallel port "inputs" (X/Y/Z/E-STOP) to the onboard 5V, and the pin-pairs allow the connected switches to ground these through to ground. Apart from a failure on the board there's not much to go wrong.

29064

Power OFF, disconnect limit switches, disconnect computer cable:

1) Verify the three pads marked "GROUND" have low resistance between each (100% confident they will)
2) Verify continuity between pad marked "11" and pin 11 on the DB25 connector. Yes, the long row are pins 1-13, the short row 14-25. The pins are usually marked in the connector, but at 51 years old I can't read them. Pin 13 is the one closest to the jack socket that you want to add.
3) Verify continuity between pad marked "12" and pin 12.
4) Verify continuity between pad marked "13" and pin 13.
5) Verify no* continuity between pad marked "11" and the adjacent "Ground" pad.
6) Verify no* continuity between pad marked "12" and the adjacent "Ground" pad.
7) Verify no* continuity between pad marked "13" and the adjacent "Ground" pad.

(* : "No" - certainly a lot higher than a few ohms - these signals are pulled to the onboard supply line, so there can be/will be some measurable resistance but would expect this to be >1kR)

8) Verify high resistance between pad marked "11" and "12" (high = at least 2kR, depends on the SIL resistor values)
9) Verify high resistance between pad marked "12" and "13" (high = at least 2kR, depends on the SIL resistor values)
10) Verify high resistance between pad marked "11" and "13 (high = at least 2kR, depends on the SIL resistor values)

If you're prepared to test "powered" - reconnect all power, computer and switches:

11) X-Axis switch "closed" - voltage on pad "11" = 0V (measured, with respect to the ground plane on the board.
12) X-Axis switch "open" (or removed from board) - voltage on pad "11" = 5V.
13) Y-Axis switch "closed" - voltage on pad "12" = 0V (measured, with respect to the ground plane on the board.
14) Y-Axis switch "open" (or removed from board) - voltage on pad "12" = 5V.
15) Z-Axis switch "closed" - voltage on pad "13" = 0V (measured, with respect to the ground plane on the board.
16) Z-Axis switch "open" (or removed from board) - voltage on pad "13" = 5V.

If all these measure okay - and I'm confident that without a failure on the board that they will, then the BoB is okay.

As an suggestion for your experience yesterday, with nothing working, double-check that your supply voltage to the BoB was present - the BoB depends upon the pull-up to the local board supply to get the "logic 1" (switch open) sense level.

[RichardR]

Thanks Doddy,. I have taken the BOB out as I was not getting continuity between the XYZ header and the db25, you are correct there is a resister pack, well I think that is what it is, I am going to wait until my neighbours come over to read your post, as honestly I don't understand what you are telling me to do, with regards to resistance values and what scale the meter should be set on.
Can you verify what you mean when you say pad marked 12 & 13 to pin 12 & 13 as there are no pads marked 12&13
So I will wait until then and let you know

[JAZZCNC]

Can you verify what you mean when you say pad marked 12 & 13 to pin 12 & 13 as there are no pads marked 12&13
So I will wait until then and let you know

Look at the picture Doddy posted he's marked the pins for you.

[ZASto]

You have already pins for limit switches on DB-25 connector:
XLimit - pin11
YLimit - pin12
ZLimit - pin13

For probe, just solder a barrel connector to the board. Central pin is the probe input and it IS connected to the rest of electronics.

29069

[RichardR]

Thank you Jazzcnc and ZASto I did see the marking that Dodgy did, and I have the probe wiring sorted, I could not work out what size barrel connected to get, so I got wired the pads and brought the wires out to a connected strip on the back of the control box.
With Doddys help we have confirmed the board is working and the limit switches work, unfortunately the switches activate the BOB at regular intervals, due to noise interference, again with Doddy's help we are sorting that out, then the next step will be setting up the home switches, followed by the soft limits then machine coordinates, but I am getting ahead of myself.Thank you all

[RichardR]

Good news I have set the limit switches to work, also the home switching on the same switch as well as the soft limits, so with Doddy's help I am hoping to sort out the noise issue which keeps on putting it into emergency stop, then I can try and do some test work.
Regards to all Richard

[JAZZCNC]

Good news I have set the limit switches to work, also the home switching on the same switch as well as the soft limits, so with Doddy's help I am hoping to sort out the noise issue which keeps on putting it into emergency stop, then I can try and do some test work.
Regards to all Richard

Hi Richard,

If you want a quick workaround then Mach3 as a debounce option which will filter the noise, it does slow reaction time but will get you going until doddy gives you a electrical method of dealing with noise.

To use it go to General config and in top right corner you'll see Debounce interval, each amount is in 40 milli second blocks so start low with say 1 or 2 and keep increasing until your system becomes stable.

[RichardR]

Thanks I have already found the debounce setting and even set on 1000 it still drops out, however the time it takes to do that has enabled me to play with the settings, I am now going to wire the switches with screened cable, also I am going to earth bond all the axis on the machine

[Doddy]

Thanks I have already found the debounce setting and even set on 1000 it still drops out, however the time it takes to do that has enabled me to play with the settings, I am now going to wire the switches with screened cable, also I am going to earth bond all the axis on the machine

Well, earth the chassis / spindle of the machine at least. Then we'll introduce opto-coupler isolation on the limit switches, and take it from there. Listening to Richard, and his neighbour on the phone, I think things are starting to fall into place a little and their understanding and navigation around Mach3 is reassuring - gives me some confidence that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Experiments with debouncing made it quite clear the controller/PC is rather susceptible to noise (even without motors/spindle) - I think this does need to be belts-and-braced.

[JAZZCNC]

I am now going to wire the switches with screened cable, also I am going to earth bond all the axis on the machine

Careful with the earthing as you can easily introduce ground loops, I'm sure Doddy will have mentioned this but make sure you take all earths back to a single ground point.

[RichardR]

No I was not aware of that, so I need to take all the earths separately to a connection on the back of the machine, choc strip, then one wire to the bolt on the control box?
While I am on I wonder if you can help with the amount of travel of the Axis, for instance the machine is set up for mm however the actual movement on the axis's do not correspond with the amount that was inputted. I presume that if I enter G0 X10 then it should move 10 centimetres but it only moves approx. 6 centimetres. Am I correct in thinking that if I enter a code of G0 X0.05 then it should move 5mm. I get very confused with Metric but I have a feeling that the 6040 has a metric screw thread, although I cannot find any information on it now.

[JAZZCNC]

No I was not aware of that, so I need to take all the earths separately to a connection on the back of the machine, choc strip, then one wire to the bolt on the control box?
While I am on I wonder if you can help with the amount of travel of the Axis, for instance the machine is set up for mm however the actual movement on the axis's do not correspond with the amount that was inputted. I presume that if I enter G0 X10 then it should move 10 centimetres but it only moves approx. 6 centimetres. Am I correct in thinking that if I enter a code of G0 X0.05 then it should move 5mm. I get very confused with Metric but I have a feeling that the 6040 has a metric screw thread, although I cannot find any information on it now.

Ok I'll start with the Earths first.

Only earth one end of the screen on each cable to the single Gnd point in the control box. Likewise, any other earths should be taken or run from this single point.

Now the movement. Any commands like G0 X10 are in MM's not Cm's so G0 X10 would move 10mm.
If you are not moving the correct distance this will be because your Steps Per setting is wrong in the Motor tuning section.
The steps per amount is a calculation based on the amount of Micro stepping used in the drives and the pitch and if used any ratio applied.
So lets say you have 1600 micro steps set on the drives and the ballscrew pitch is 5mm and the motor is direct drive so no ratio the Step per calculation would 1600/5=320 steps per mm.

Now you probably don't know the Micro steps and if your not sure about the ball screw pitch then Mach3 does have feature where it will calculate the steps per based on distance travelled.
Go to the Settings tab and just above the red Reset button you'll see a button that says Set steps Per Unit. Click this and it will ask which axis to calibrate, then it will ask you to enter a distance to move in mm's, enter a distance and when you click enter the machine will move, then it ask you to enter the actual distance the machine moved, from this it will caculate the steps per unit.
So before doing this make a reference mark some where on the machine or the bed which you can acurately measure from. For a first try I suggest you enter a small amount just in case your settings are way off target and measure the distance it moved. Then repeat this over the longest distance you can accurately measure, the secret is accuracy in your measuring. A tape measure is NOT accurate enough, If you have a digital vernier gauge then you can use this by opening it up wide and zeroing it out, then let the machine shove it to see how far it moves. ie: 150mm vernier then opens wide and set the distance to 100mm and see what it actually measures. Enter this value into the steps per calculator when it asks for distance travelled.

Do this for each axis.

[RichardR]

Thanks I will play with that tomorrow, I have a digital defined so can be accurate

[Doddy]

Just for clarity - the conversation on the phone as I recall was related to exporting an earth to the machine, not to provide shielding (after all, we're providing galvanic isolation with the opto-isolator board). For this (and broadly aligned with Jazz's advice), provide an earth line back from the machine to a central earth point on the control box connected to the protective earth provided through the IEC (mains) connector.

Screens (rather than earths) I'm not going to get excited about.

[RichardR]

I did what you said for the Y and X axis and that was ok but it would not move on the Z axis but mach 3 asked how far it moved, also it is now not operating on the G code I put in G0 Y20 X20 also when I tried a manual jog it moved a minute distance but only every time I pressed the keyboard jog button. I had a look around mach 3 but could not find what the problem is

[JAZZCNC]

I did what you said for the Y and X axis and that was ok but it would not move on the Z axis but mach 3 asked how far it moved, also it is now not operating on the G code I put in G0 Y20 X20 also when I tried a manual jog it moved a minute distance but only every time I pressed the keyboard jog button. I had a look around mach 3 but could not find what the problem is

Ok regards the Z axis then you need to enter a negative number, all Z moves are usually negative moves. So try something like -20. If you don't enter a value after it moves then Mach3 will default back to what was entered before.

I'm not clear on what your saying regards it not moving.? I think your saying it's NOT moving when you enter g0 Y20 X20 into the MDI.? If this is the case then make sure you are not at those coordinates already as this about the only reason I can think of why it wouldn't move.!

Best thing to do is ZERO each axis then enter G0 Y20 X20. If it doesn't move then I can't imagine why not as just setting the steps per with the calibration tool shouldn't stop it moving unless something went badly wrong. What are the numbers entered into the Steps Per for each axis.?

Regards the tiny move distance then make sure you haven't accidentally put it into Step Mode. Click the TAB key and the Jog tab will come out from the side. In there you will see JOG MODE button which will cycle between Step and continous Mode.

[RichardR]

I don't know what I did but I got it all moving on the manual jog , then realised that it was a negative movement, so all working, I checked the amount it moved after my G code input and it was within a 0.??mmm I guess that due to the pitch on the screw thread it is as near as possible, or should I change to inches and try that?

[Clive S]

I don't know what I did but I got it all moving on the manual jog , then realised that it was a negative movement, so all working, I checked the amount it moved after my G code input and it was within a 0.??mmm I guess that due to the pitch on the screw thread it is as near as possible, or should I change to inches and try that?
You can work in mm or inches by using G21 or G20 at the top of the gcode.

How near is 0.??mm. Now you have it running cut a square out and measure the square with a vernier
Also you can measure the diagonals to see if the gantry is out of square.

Edit: Joking aside you have coma a long way from spitting the dummy out. :joker: :applouse:

[RichardR]

Not quite ready to do any cutting, I need to understand how to set coordinates, also I need to fit a sacrificial board and do a levelling sweep which will be good practise, I think a probe plate would be a good idea, then I would know the exact distance the top of the tool is before I start any job, all this will take me a little while.
It's a shame I did not get the CD with it as I understand it has some test programmes which would probably have given me some idea of programming jobs.

[JAZZCNC]

Not quite ready to do any cutting, I need to understand how to set coordinates, also I need to fit a sacrificial board and do a levelling sweep which will be good practise, I think a probe plate would be a good idea, then I would know the exact distance the top of the tool is before I start any job, all this will take me a little while.
It's a shame I did not get the CD with it as I understand it has some test programmes which would probably have given me some idea of programming jobs.

Richard, you are along way from needing a probe plate, it's not just a case of pluging in the probe plate. You need a macro that works out the tool offsets and some other magic behind the scenes, you will also need a modified screen set.
Also you will be better learning how to set it manually as the probe plates are not always possible to use on some jobs so understanding how it all works is worth the time it takes to learn.

Now regards the movement and whether to use MM's or Inch then it doesn't matter because if your Steps per setting are wrong they will be wrong for both. It's also more involved because you will have convert metric pitch to imperial which uses turns per inch.

The steps per setting isn't something you can guess at, it's a calculated figure based on several components like I mentioned in my last post. If it's wrong by even a few digits then it will affect the accuracy. If you don't know the ballscrew pitch and the micro stepping so it can be calculated then you have to use the measurement method like I showed you. The accuracy of the Steps per then depends on how accurately you measure the distance it moved, measure it wrong and it will move the wrong distance.
This is the Same whether you use Imperial or Metric units so changing to INCH units won't make a jot of difference. It will still be wrong in either units.

Clive's suggestion to use G20 for inch is a workaround if you are using imperial G-code but it's less than ideal if you are using on a machine set for Metric units because it only takes into account the coordinates and not the feed rates. To see this in action try one of the G-code files included with mach3 like the roadrunner.
This code was written for Imperial units and if you run it on a machine set in metric units using G21 then it will cut very small, 25.4 times smaller to be precise, because when it commands a move like X10 it actually means move X 10 inch but instead will move 10mm.

Now if you use Clive's suggestion and type G20 this will put you into Imperial units and the size will be correct as X10 will move 10inch but what it doesn't do is take into account the feed rates. The imperial code will command a feed based on imperial units so lets say it calls for F100 it actually means move at 100 inch/min ( 2540mm/min) but because your system is set and tuned to metric units the feed will actually be 100mm/min and the G20 code doesn't do anything to change this.
To get around this and use imperial code the best approach is to create another separate profile with the machine tuned for imperial units. Then when cutting imperial G-code you just load this profile and all will work correctly.

If you would like me to explain how the coordinate systems work and how to setup cutting a job just ask.

[RichardR]

Thanks Jazzcnc I used my digital vernier, which is not a cheap one and is accurate, it has to be when I am working on the lathe or any of the m/c engines I rebuild, I can assure you I did it as you said using the mach3 programme for measurment, I actually did the x axis and a axis three times and did test runs inbetween and the distance it moved was never spot on, it showed the correct distance on the screen but it varied by 0.12mm or near to that each time. Ok did not fully understand the probe, just saw it being used on a urine video and thought ,oh that looks easy, but you know what thought did :-)
I will take you up on your offer of help and will ask later, but ask if you can imagine me as thick, and explain things simply. Or in simple steps.
I was given a downloaded version of Mach3 by the Chinese eBay seller so never got the CD with forerunner and the other test programmes.
I will leave things as metric, having to input different codes to change things at the stage I am at will be a disaster.
All the best
Richard

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks Jazzcnc I used my digital vernier, which is not a cheap one and is accurate, it has to be when I am working on the lathe or any of the m/c engines I rebuild, I can assure you I did it as you said using the mach3 programme for measurment, I actually did the x axis and a axis three times and did test runs inbetween and the distance it moved was never spot on, it showed the correct distance on the screen but it varied by 0.12mm or near to that each time.

Ok well in that case you could have some backlash or play in the bearings which hold the ballscrews, It's not unknown for this to happen on these chinese machines as they use cheap bearings with a less than ideal method of fixing.


Ok did not fully understand the probe, just saw it being used on a urine video and thought ,oh that looks easy, but you know what thought did :-)

It's not difficult to get working but it's also not just simply case of plugging in a wire. When your ready we can guide you threw it and help with Macro code etc but I suggest you learn the manual method first.


I will take you up on your offer of help and will ask later, but ask if you can imagine me as thick, and explain things simply. Or in simple steps.

You've got this far so your certainly not thick but don't worry I'm used to helping new users and it's not as difficult as you probably imagine it to be.
Ounce you under stand the difference between the two coordinate systems, which are MACHINE coords and WORK Coords , and how they relate to each other it all starts to make a lot more sense.
Most of the time you are in WORK coordinates and the actual process of setting up and cutting a part is very very simple. In a matter of 1 or 2 min's from firing up the machine you will be cutting.


I was given a downloaded version of Mach3 by the Chinese eBay seller so never got the CD with forerunner and the other test programmes.
I will leave things as metric, having to input different codes to change things at the stage I am at will be a disaster.


Ok well this could be some of your problem.? These Chinese sellers are giving you pirated copies and very Old one's at that. What version of the software are you using.? you will find this info by going to the Help menu and ABOUT option. In there it will tell you the version number and the name of the license holder.

You can download newest version of Mach3 free of charge from Artsoft. It will function and run the machine but is limited to 500 lines of G-code untill you buy the license file.
If you do this I suggest you Rename the current Mach3 Folder to something like Mach3_OLD before installing then you don't risk losing your working setup.
After it's installed you can copy your settings over to the new mach3 by copying the XML file of the profile you used before and dropping in the new Mach3 folder. Or you can just setup a new profile and enter all the settings in manually.

Regards the Road runner G-code if you look in the Mach3 folder you will see another folder called Gcode, the road runner and a few other example files are in here. They have been included with Mach3 since time began and are part of the install so I'm sure they will be in your mach3 folder.

[RichardR]

Thanks, I will play :-) :-)

[Clive S]

Thanks, I will play :-) :-)

Yes just stick a bit of crappy mdf on the bed and use that to play on. Then it does not matter if you wreck it. The motors will stall before you do too must damage

[RichardR]

Only the best MDF will be used, am going to try not to wreck anything, my hand will be next to the stop button untill it finishes 😂😂😂

[Doddy]

Cutting air is very cheap, and a good way to play with the machine. ESPECIALLY whilst you have noise in the system.

[depronman]

Cutting air is very cheap, and a good way to play with the machine. ESPECIALLY whilst you have noise in the system.

Plus one for cutting air
Another option is to cut insulation foam board it’s normally in 50mm thick prices cuts with a bread knife and machines good enough to see what you have cut and measure it reasonably accurately but if the shit hits the fan it’s normally soft enough to not break the cutter

I’ve seen 5axis machines at work cut a block of foam for 20 hours or more before the cutter is introduces to a £20k worth of titanium billet [emoji2957]

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RichardR]

Having set the programme and machine up so the limit home and soft home all worked I fitted a noise filter as per instructions both having been supplied by a forum member, now the limit and Home switches do not work, it had gone into e stop mode
I have gone through the line and port settings and all is correct, however if I set the XYZ limits to active low the machine does not go into e stop but the limit switches do not work, in diagnostics the limit led do not light up, if I uncheck the active lows the programme is in e stop but the diagnostic shows the led as lit, but they do not go out when the limit switch is activated, I have checked the wiring circuit of the limit switches they are all correct, I have checked the wiring to the Bob from the switches all correct, I removed the filter and replaced the original XYZ leads and went through everything it is exactly the same,
On manual jog if I manually activate a limit switch it goes into e stop, so that must prove the switch circuit
Has to be something simple, I know it is difficult without being on the actual machine, but can anyone throw any light onto this please
Regards Richard

[Doddy]

Having set the programme and machine up so the limit home and soft home all worked I fitted a noise filter as per instructions both having been supplied by a forum member, now the limit and Home switches do not work, it had gone into e stop mode
I have gone through the line and port settings and all is correct, however if I set the XYZ limits to active low the machine does not go into e stop but the limit switches do not work, in diagnostics the limit led do not light up, if I uncheck the active lows the programme is in e stop but the diagnostic shows the led as lit, but they do not go out when the limit switch is activated, I have checked the wiring circuit of the limit switches they are all correct, I have checked the wiring to the Bob from the switches all correct, I removed the filter and replaced the original XYZ leads and went through everything it is exactly the same,
On manual jog if I manually activate a limit switch it goes into e stop, so that must prove the switch circuit
Has to be something simple, I know it is difficult without being on the actual machine, but can anyone throw any light onto this please
Regards Richard

Okay, Richard, there's a lot of information missing for people outside of our conversation here, and in particular what a "filter board" is in this context. Let me fill in the blanks that people will otherwise ask, and perhaps ask a few questions myself...


Having set the programme and machine up so the limit home and soft home all worked I fitted a noise filter as per instructions both having been supplied by a forum member

"Having wired the machine with independent X,Y,Z limit switches, each axis wired with two switches in series in a Normally-Closed mode, onto a modified BoB (shown in images on page 1 of this thread), there were problems experienced with noise on any/each axis limit switches that generated spurious limit triggers with Mach3. We did try to address the noise issue by increasing the 'Debounce' value in the Mach3 configuration settings, however, whilst increasing 'Debounce' did reduce the occurrences of spurious limit trips, they were still evident.

Some kindly soul suggested that, in reviewing the board layout, the BoB simply presents the limit-switch input straight to the parallel port interface with nothing but a pull-up resistor (and privately, possibly a filter capacitor). This means that any electrical noise picked up by the wiring in the machine is presented directly to the parallel port input into the computer, and could be a mechanism for noise susceptibility.

To try to counter this, it was suggested to introduce a commercially-available opto-isolator board, in this case a 4-channel device. In reviewing the schematic for the opto-isolator board, noting the positive-side switching, a wiring scheme was introduced (and modifications made to the board) to support 24V switched limit switch inputs to attempt to improve noise immunity, thus:

29084

and provision of cable assemblies, thus:

29085

and finally with a special-to-type cable assy to connect the opto-isolator board directly onto the board, previously modified with pin headers to access the X/Y/Z limit switches...

29086



now the limit and Home switches do not work, it had gone into e stop mode




I have no e stop fitted yet, should I connect the e stop connection to the 24 common so it looks as if one is fitted

It’s a plan, or set it active high/low in Mach3. ESTOP is normally N/C so wiring 24V to the ESTOP filter board input would work




I have gone through the line and port settings and all is correct, however if I set the XYZ limits to active low the machine does not go into e stop but the limit switches do not work, in diagnostics the limit led do not light up, if I uncheck the active lows the programme is in e stop but the diagnostic shows the led as lit, but they do not go out when the limit switch is activated

At this point, I explained that Mach3 is not an area that I've comfortable advising upon simply because I've not used for several years. Forum members may be able to help.

However, Richard, I did ask for screen shots of the Mach3 Ports&Pins Input configuration settings that covers the axis limit/home switch settings. I believe people will require that to help further.



I have checked the wiring circuit of the limit switches they are all correct, I have checked the wiring to the Bob from the switches all correct, I removed the filter and replaced the original XYZ leads and went through everything it is exactly the same,

Okay, a new request - can you provide a good photo of the wiring loom added into the BoB



On manual jog if I manually activate a limit switch it goes into e stop, so that must prove the switch circuit

Now, I need to ask you to be precise here. Mach3 will enter a fault mode, and identify the cause of this (E-Stop, Limit Switch, etc), that you have to then clear. You say "e stop" - is that true?, that Mach3 scrolls a message that E-Stop is pressed?, or does it identify that the Limit Switch is triggered?, this is quite important to understand clearly.



Has to be something simple, I know it is difficult without being on the actual machine, but can anyone throw any light onto this please
Regards Richard

Very difficult without being on the machine. I keep looking at the map and we're still 150 miles apart. However a 6 hour trip is starting to sound more and more attractive, if it wasn't for this damned Covid crap.

I'm concerned now with the wording of your message that the E-Stop is triggered when a limit switch is activated, because that behaviour as described is unexpected - yes Mach3 should enter it's fault mode identifying the Limit Switch is triggered. This bit, for me is critical to understand better, and part of the reason above I've asked separately for an image of the wiring of the opto-isolator board to the BoB (I want to see the wiring connection onto the BoB - for the 3-way limit switch, the 2-way scavenged 5V supply and the 1-pin E-Stop input). Back into email, I will be asking you to measure signals on pins on the BoB.

But, in asking for help from the forum a context is required which I hope I've half completed - but would be assisted particularly with the image of Mach3's input port configuration page.

BTW, if I come across as being a pedantic sod - I am - as part of my career I've had incredibly highly trained people try to explain technical problems to me - the English language is a poor medium for diagnosis, inevitably when you look under the hood you find that there's critical information missing or misunderstood which only a Mk1 Eyeball will pick up. If I continue to ask questions it's to try to understand more clearly (and at a distance) the problem. And if you don't answer the questions I'll keep asking them (at least until one of us gets bored).

There's also this bit from our email conversation...



The situation is this, everything was set up to work on home switches and limit switches, nothing was altered and the filter fitted and double checked it is connected as it should be. On the diagnostic screen the led lights operate when triggered and show the three different axis. So the filter board must be working as far as signals go.

which appears at odds with the description above. I need to probe you further on this, and the current behaviour of the machine.

[Clive S]

Mike.
Would it help to suggest to almost start again and just get one circuit working. Ie take the e-stop out of the out of the loop.

I have been following this and can see that bits are not being clearly reported.

I would suggest that he makes bullet points to be precise and a screen shot of the lights.

To the OP. I know it is always difficult to relay info when you have never done this sort of stuff before.
You will get there in the end You have the correct tutor :friendly_wink:

[RichardR]

Ok just to clarify things, I do not have the actual E stop connected and I unchecked it in Mach 3 or altered the active switch so it is out of the conversation, what I meant was that it goes, and says emergency stop, I used E stop as an abbreviation, my fault.
I am going to start from scratch again once as I have informed Doddy by pm that having removed the filter and gone back to just the bob, I am going to measure to see if I have 5 volts from the limit switches, if I haven't then more than likely the bob is now faulty, if I have I am going to reinstate the filter and give Doddy the required information he has asked me.
That will be later on so I will post the outcome as and when

Quote Originally Posted by Richard - private email
The situation is this, everything was set up to work on home switches and limit switches, nothing was altered and the filter fitted and double checked it is connected as it should be. On the diagnostic screen the led lights operate when triggered and show the three different axis. So the filter board must be working as far as signals go.

which appears at odds with the description above. I need to probe you further on this, and the current behaviour of the machine.


Its very difficult to convey exactly what I am actually trying to say and the exact order of things, I do not have Wi Fi in the garage where the machine is and by the time I get into the office to write these posts, I have forgotten small things and the order I did them in, its an age thing and very frustrating, but bear with me and I will try to get information to you as best as I can

[JAZZCNC]

Sorry but How can we help if you are having private conversations that we are not privy to.? and only giving us half the information.!
Either keep it all on the Forum or not at all because your always going to get conflicting info if we don't have all the facts.

If you want my advice then throw the bloody hacked up BOB in the bin, spend £5 on a new one and start again. Or better still invest in a Ethernet controller and dump the parallel port altogether.!

Doddy is correct that if you trip a limit in Mach3 then it should say "Limit exceeded" not "Emergency Stop" we know E-stop and Emergency stop are the same thing, but If it say's E-stop then you must be using the same Pin as the E-stop for the limits. Otherwise it would say "limit exceeded", when the pins are shared E-stop will always take precedence over limits in the messages. However in diagnostics you will see all the LED's light together if they are using the same pin.

[RichardR]

Sorry but just before I posted Doddy had said that his knowledge of Mach3 was rusty as he used other systems, I then wrote my post out giving all the information as to what had happened, or so I thought, then after that he came back with more suggestions which I carried out.
It's alright for you to have another go at me, I probably asked for it, (I don't think,)
You are a very helpful chap but a bit touchy and prone to being abrupt.
What you need to understand is that you know what you are talking about, I am trying my best to just learn how to use a machine I have had for at least 3 years that cost me in excess of £1100, but due to illness and health problems I am only just trying to get to grips with.
I have looked at other BOB's and know they cost £8 upwards, but room to fit another BOB that may be larger is tight and would mean me moving things in the control box, more technical problems for me, then I would need to know how to connect everything as the connections are different to my existing one.
Therefore if its all the same to you I will try to get the Bob repaired.
I will stay on this forum but hey honestly you don't have to reply to my posts or help me, if there is no one else that can then that's fine, I will succeed I assure you.
As an aside it didn't show limit exceeded,but was showing an emergency stop activated, due to the Bob being faulty and not switching XYZ 5volt to 0 Bolton pins 10 11 and 12, so again you made me look like a complete Pratt again.
Thanks for all your input though

[JAZZCNC]

Richard, you need to stop being so touchy, I wasn't having a go at you or trying to make you look a pratt, just pointing out that if you are having private conversasions and only giving us half the info how can we help.

Regards being abrupt then you are asking for our help, I'm watching and replying, giving you my time and years of experience for free, all with the intention of helping you.
So when I see post's where you are only giving partial info and clearly working behind the scenes with others but not giving us details on what's been done then asking for more help then I have two choices, ignore it, not reply and move onto helping someone else, or post telling you that it's not helping.

Now if you see this as Having a go or being abrupt then that's your problem snow flake. As for my advice then that's for you to take or leave, I don't really care. But rest assured you won't get any more and I wish you good luck.!

[RichardR]

That's fine with me Jazzcnc looking through the posts I did give the information as I saw it, then Doddy by kindly came in and supplied all the information in a polite way,before you replied with your abrupt reply,
I object to being called a "snowflake" which I am certainly not.and regardless of disagreements this forum is not a place to call each other names

[Doddy]

I do need to hold my hands up here, Jazz - as Richard said - I did advise him to ask on the forum for specific help on Mach3 (in this case the configuration for shared limit/home switches - I think from reading the PDF that is all managed by Mach3 / Input configuration, but without a working installation to test that I'm flying blind).

Yeah, there's a lot of conversation behind the scene here which I did try to help catch up with the relevant bits on the forum with my post (and discard the obsolete/rabbit-hole info), simply, it's a lot of noise that would have run to many pages and with many threads. State of play time-now is I'm going to verify/test the board/opto-isolator config to demonstrate the current (it's changed) behaviour - if its behaviour is as Richard has measured (I trust only my eyes), then to condemn the BoB and replace; the reluctance to date is due to the physical build of the controller box - but to recover that we're talking of mounting a ribbon extender to a DB25 on the panel and relocating the BoB somewhere all together more accessible within the enclosure. And in doing so the BoB will be selected with the standard opto-isolated limit switch inputs, and then we'll all be back to a nice, known state, and Richard can hopefully move forwards with a working machine.

[Doddy]

.

[JAZZCNC]

I do need to hold my hands up here, Jazz - as Richard said - I did advise him to ask on the forum for specific help on Mach3 (in this case the configuration for shared limit/home switches - I think from reading the PDF that is all managed by Mach3 / Input configuration, but without a working installation to test that I'm flying blind).

Yeah, there's a lot of conversation behind the scene here which I did try to help catch up with the relevant bits on the forum with my post (and discard the obsolete/rabbit-hole info), simply, it's a lot of noise that would have run to many pages and with many threads.

Ye I get that Doody and I weren't having a pop at you, like me you give your time for free and out the kindness of your heart so I would never have a Pop at anyone for this but Richard came back asking for more help and gave virtually Zero Info knowing so much had happened behind the scenes, Saying he's new is NO excuse because he's the one who's done the pyshical modifications you told him to do.

You know me I don't pussy foot about with my words, I haven't got time to waste being all PC just so someone, who I'm trying to help for Free, doesn't gets offended.



That's fine with me Jazzcnc looking through the posts I did give the information as I saw it, then Doddy by kindly came in and supplied all the information in a polite way,before you replied with your abrupt reply,
I object to being called a "snowflake" which I am certainly not.and regardless of disagreements this forum is not a place to call each other names

Richard, I wasn't complaining about what you wrote I was making the point that by doing this ON and OFF the forum doesn't work and makes it difficult for Us not privy to what's happened so far to help. So my point was do one or the other not both because I haven't got time to go back thru dozens of posts trying to catch up on what's happened or read an update post that is 10,000 words long.

More than Twice now on two separate threads you have gone off the handle at reply's which were never said or meant to offend only help, but you read them differently and got offended. In my world, this makes you a snowflake.

Now here's the last piece of advice you'll get from me.!. . . If you are going to hang around Forums asking for help you are going to need to realise we are all different and text is easily misread and took the wrong way, getting upset at the words being said or asked is only going to isolate you from the people who have the knowledge and experience to help fix your issues.

Good luck.!

[JAZZCNC]

.

You Pussy... :hysterical: :joker: