Hand feed XYZ cube

[John McNamara]

Hi All

This old Tony posted a video on heat treatment However What caught my eye at 16:41 min in was a novel to me XYZ Cube for hand feeding a CNC machine. Using three hand wheels. instead of the usual one with a selector switch to choose which axis to use it on.

29358

I rather like it.

The video is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Fo7mfZg7k&ab_channel=ThisOldTony

Regards
John

[depronman]

Hi All

This old Tony posted a video on heat treatment However What caught my eye at 16:41 min in was a novel to me XYZ Cube for hand feeding a CNC machine. Using three hand wheels. instead of the usual one with a selector switch to choose which axis to use it on.

29358

I rather like it.

The video is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Fo7mfZg7k&ab_channel=ThisOldTony

Regards
John

Great idea just a pity the selector switch is needed it would be very intuitive if there was no selector switch just like a manual machine
Is the selector switch not for adjusting feed speeds ?

Paul


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[pippin88]

Great idea just a pity the selector switch is needed it would be very intuitive if there was no selector switch just like a manual machine
Is the selector switch not for adjusting feed speeds ?

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere is no selector switch. That is the point.



Downside is you need electronics capable of accepting 3 MPG / encoder inputs.

Other downside is cost. One MPG and a multiposition switch is substantially cheaper than 3 MPG.

[John McNamara]

Hi Depronman

Unfortunately Exactly how the knobs are interfaced is not clear in the video.
Hopefully he will show more in the future on how he retrofitted the very nice MAHO mill. Note the position of the Z axis Not the normal setup used in a conventional say Haas CNC V mill.

I wonder if there are other examples of this interface?

Regards
John

[Doddy]

ToT likes the odd joke or two - highly entertaining videos, and (without listening to the video) it wouldn't surprise me if that's a bit of a prop for the video.

That said - I'm heavily involved in repurposing the fixed pendant on my mill with something more CNC-based/useful, including axis-feeds, DROs, probing etc, and - at least with UCCNC (and the plugin interfaces) - that 3-axis cube control would be pretty straight-forward to implement (particularly if you only wanted one-axis-in-motion). As Paul suggests - there's more required for a controller - like feed rates.

[depronman]

There is no selector switch. That is the point.



Downside is you need electronics capable of accepting 3 MPG / encoder inputs.

Other downside is cost. One MPG and a multiposition switch is substantially cheaper than 3 MPG.

Read the post again it clearly says 3 hand wheels and a selector switch to select the axis being moved
The cost of mpg’s is only around £10to£15 each so whilst a consideration it’s not a major one in my eyes

Paul


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[Muzzer]

I believe Andy Pugh on the LinuxCNC forum fitted 2 MPGs on the apron of his original lathe conversion but IIRC he says he never used them. As noted, you need a controller that can handle several encoder inputs AND the means to process them. The various Mesa Electronics cards that are used widely in LinuxCNC can provide that expansion but they would significantly increase the budget beyond the cost of a few Chinese MPGs, not to mention the trial of configuring them.

This may be like retaining handwheels on a conversion - seems like a good idea at the time but turns out not to be so valuable in practice - speaking as someone who retained handwheels on my first machine. A wireless MPG is soooo much better on various fronts.

[depronman]

I believe Andy Pugh on the LinuxCNC forum fitted 2 MPGs on the apron of his original lathe conversion but IIRC he says he never used them. As noted, you need a controller that can handle several encoder inputs AND the means to process them. The various Mesa Electronics cards that are used widely in LinuxCNC can provide that expansion but they would significantly increase the budget beyond the cost of a few Chinese MPGs, not to mention the trial of configuring them.

This may be like retaining handwheels on a conversion - seems like a good idea at the time but turns out not to be so valuable in practice - speaking as someone who retained handwheels on my first machine. A wireless MPG is soooo much better on various fronts.

Could not agree more I have a WiFi pendant that I move between my Orac lathe and Boxford vmc190. I also have proper buttons on the control panel of both machines
I don’t miss the mechanical handles at all and the single mpg is fine for the amount of time that I operate the machine manually

It is an interesting concept though - would linuxcnc support it if sufficient inputs where available - at face value I see no reason why not

Paul


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[Doddy]

Muzzer, all good points, and I’ve also got two encoder on my Mesa 7i76e /lathe, and very useful it is as well, I do use them all the time (as far as I use the lather, that is)

There are more controllers with one or two axis encoder than there are with 3 or more (these latter ones being some thing of a rarity). As far as the wireless pendants go, if these plug into your PC (rather than directly into s control card) with the machine running UCCNC or Mach, then you still have machine-in-loop and the machine is taking instantaneous demands from the handheld mpg and translating these to fragments of motion commands to the underlying controller. In which case you can manage multiple axis through the driver software. Been there, worn that tee shirt. I might just order three mpgs to demonstrate that.

Ironically, and tangential to this thread, my wired pendant (I don’t trust Wireless) appears susceptible to electrical noise now... if I walk it to my machine, the little led “tx” indicator will flicker from time to time as an unsolicited command gets sent. I’ve had it randomly turn the spindle on, and separately commands a Z-Ptobe. Maybe I need to try a wireless one! Or finish this dammed pendant.

[Clive S]

Read the post again it clearly says 3 hand wheels and a selector switch to select the axis being moved
The cost of mpg’s is only around £10to£15 each so whilst a consideration it’s not a major one in my eyes

Paul


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I have 2 mpg's on my lathe and 3 on the mill. I find them very handy for quick jobs like drilling the the Z on the mill etc.

[JAZZCNC]

Ironically, and tangential to this thread, my wired pendant (I don’t trust Wireless) appears susceptible to electrical noise now... if I walk it to my machine, the little led “tx” indicator will flicker from time to time as an unsolicited command gets sent. I’ve had it randomly turn the spindle on, and separately commands a Z-Ptobe. Maybe I need to try a wireless one! Or finish this dammed pendant.

I've just recently built a machine and fit UCR201 wireless pendant and must say I'm massively impressed with it, so much so I ordered 6 more to keep in stock.

Like you, I don't or didn't, trust wireless until I used the UCR201. At first, I was reluctant to provide it but the customer wanted a pendant and didn't want wires, so I reluctantly fit it with a Big warning of "On your head be it".

But this wasn't enough for me and I wanted to prove if it was stable or not so I set out to affectively break or trip it up. So the first test which usually blows wireless devices and most sensitive electrical devices is to fire up the TIG welder next to it.? Nope, didn't bat an eyelid. Next was the Plasma cutter and MIg welder, the same result.
The acid test was when I walked to the other end of my unit, approx 40mtr's, into my office, shut the door, and controlled the machine looking through my office window while my son was welding next to the machine with a MIG welder.

Nothing I did made this thing wobble and we even controlled the machine from outside the building. I'd recommend the UCR201 to anyone using UCCNC.

[pippin88]

Read the post again it clearly says 3 hand wheels and a selector switch to select the axis being moved
The cost of mpg’s is only around £10to£15 each so whilst a consideration it’s not a major one in my eyes

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkPaul,

I think you missed the word "instead"



What would be the point of 3 MPGs and still needing an axis selector switch?

The MPG cost is not huge but you need interface electronics also. The common MPGs are 100 count encoders.

May be worth it but certainly more expensive than a single MPG and selector switch.

[depronman]

Paul,

I think you missed the word "instead"



What would be the point of 3 MPGs and still needing an axis selector switch?

The MPG cost is not huge but you need interface electronics also. The common MPGs are 100 count encoders.

May be worth it but certainly more expensive than a single MPG and selector switch.

You are correct I speed read it and missed the ‘instead’
Would still like to understand how the feed rate per mpeg click is set. Eg fine feed medium feed fast feed

Paul


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[Muzzer]

I have an XHC PHB04B-4 wireless MPG in my Centroid Acorn system and I've never had a problem with interference. The closest I've had is loss of signal due to the pendant being shielded from the receiver. At that point, the handwheel doesn't do anything which is a sort of failsafe outcome. The solution is not to pile metallic objects on top of the receiver and/or position the receiver in line of sight of the machine.

I have the control PC at my desk a couple of metres away from the machine so I can also do Fusion work and of course play music, surf etc while it's machining. The latter is something that should never be done I'm told but it works for me....

[Neale]

I also use a similar wireless MPG with similar performance - never had interference issues. I like the ability to use its magnets to put it where I like for one-handed operation, and I can use it while looking at the tool-workpiece distance, including moving between axis switch/step size switch/MPG knob. My concern with the three-knob device is how easy it would be to accidentally knock the wrong knob, especially as you will presumably still need a step size switch at least. My current machine came with some clever-looking pendant-like device that was almost usable when stuck to its Velcro pad on the control panel but was too light to put down and use one-handed. I quickly reconfigured to use my trusty wireless device. OK, familiarity counts for a lot but I would like to hear how people get on with this device. I can't twiddle two dials at once with any accuracy so would only do that for rough positioning anyway - and on my CNC machines I normally use the MDI input for that - so it's not immediately clear what the advantage is.

Have to confess that I'm also a bit influenced by a small whoopsy last night - knocked the MPG dial by accident and drove my touch probe into the workpiece. Have to remake the stylus probe - again... The idea of three knobs that might get knocked accidentally would worry me!

[Muzzer]

Haha yes I've had a similar scare a couple of times where I've nudged the handwheel when it's been sitting on my bench or the machine table, particularly when it's been set to x100. Now I have got into the habit of setting the axis selector to off when I put it down after each move.

The main drawback of the magnets is the buildup of vicious swarf around them when you've been machining steel or cast iron. But I like to park mine on the front of the cabinet when not in use, so to me the magnets are overall a useful feature.