Problem with Boxford TCL lenze controller

[John11668]

Just seemed to stop working for no visible reason. No DC to motor at all

29524..

Ignore the red circle here, the culprit stuff is at the RHS of the circuit

Mains supplies into it seem sound at 245 v on my cheap multimeter.
Analog voltage input correct . But motor will just not start. (have tried a seperate input from rheostat which I have used to test before and still no go)

Have tried on both linux cnc , and also on Mach 3 (on seperate computers) and still no Joy

Transformer on iso board gives 2 x 120v outputs but nothing at all at outputs A,B,C, at the other end of the board, and of course all the electronics are totally beyond me.

Any ideas please anyone ??

[Lahdiel]

not very helpful i know but i had mine die the other month and just ended up replacing it with a 60v switch mode and a cheap dc motor controller
i suspect if the lenze isn't popping the CB in the back of the machine its in better shape than mine was

[John11668]

I am hoping that I can save the lenze system..
Maybe just so I have more to spend on my next project :smile:

[depronman]

John
Are you saying there is no 0 to 10volts coming out of the isolation board which is attached to the end of the lenze controller ?
If so disconnect the isolation board to the lenze controller and connect your test potentiometer directly to the lenze controller
The spec for the lenze controller is on line a google search finds its instantly
For testing purposes you can use a 3 volt cell to feed an input into the lenze
Also note that there is a pair of terminals which must be bridged together to allow the lenze to work
I used these to connect to the relay on my BoB to turn the spindle on/off and then the voltage from the battery will set a speed or alternative to the battery is the potentiometer
Just be careful as the terminals for the potentiometer are floating at around 110volts at speeds zero to 120 volts at full speed
This is the purpose of the isolation board to but a isolated ‘bridge’ between the BOB and the lenses controllers high voltage

On my boxford vmc190 the lenze was perfect but the isolation board was toast
I used a diycnc.com board to provide the isolation between the lenze and the BoB

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John11668]

not very helpful i know but i had mine die the other month and just ended up replacing it with a 60v switch mode and a cheap dc motor controller
i suspect if the lenze isn't popping the CB in the back of the machine its in better shape than mine was

Is this the type of controller you are using lahdiel
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400W-Adjustable-Motor-Speed-Controller-DC-0-220V-50HZ-220V-Knob-Lathe-Control/393030193582?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5b826cd1ae:g:xY0AAOSw6tNeVJdB&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252 Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkyMJZWL%252BqFSgQ3TOOe%252FN r7stdUvrii6LSBJ6YhW2NRvpR6F4DblO3CxGpTevGYYphXnbP% 252FNZ3uVHxIN%252Fl6FsehMx7nF5nuLPXC9b1Wf1GpGbUpVW 4cVtjyeLAoZRHY%252F3h5MiXkmIn7FS4dpW4fdHdBVRUlGInQ JzhON%252B29W0iFfA1mO4Yp720FVfdRlf%252FbgyDwqUYeFL s7uYfr7%252BlfTM%252BfFR7hd1Oe6OEUihFT06sBlutZpwS7 iOR%252FNjALcU4HcuiFxqznrXvPMOfvJa5YcLxib2yksby1nf CRnfIAkk9tHb0K75pQT%252BrhIJ9YtN5geKKxrHVblveqeTCR AUrA54RrfLk38S%252BP9c4s3piXrnLkxcn9uCctKFWmXfSX46 4rGgCnDgtHXjbK1nJX0SNwqB4YmKpibsCKcRMnm85x0L%252FX j8UEZuuBmaC%252F0G18H9n0euih6lC%252BCH7G8xqTT2%252 FGbbvw8BLOzg3TOJb4f7Gs5eDiOtYxmlzqqr6Z%252F%252Fpo R9iczXkmhXISwvVgl0q9m15GNFfl6jdr6bwJHDQ4EMG3KCCgyD cTSChvdSH33fM4vYkVf2I9AN8M8wDfMj1SrjOdYeYBRRJuWck0 KfkhtqJTBI9u%252F4RclCnnx7%252BDyb7YrV2XP%252Bny4m 5L9szRoA4iiN5UBwI%252BXLpnCVl3evkXtwgpVutb5o0Rdo4E ulQlocPGkx4GqJurf7QBqppa%252FTCJ5G%252BeMZ4zx%252B ls4QrwfppAGQhfIDtDHPkevvs1ji9KSOm9YWt%252BDuOLLkTf XoSg5pQ2T9pQA4naXudyNGeVXoMmEVk1QywKE8%253D%7Ccksu m%3A39303019358291637c9a09ac4c1ba2a3c29e87b084f4%7 Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
I have tried one in the interim and it seems to handle my TCL motor although I am not trying to flogg it .
Havent tried it yet with cutting loads .

[John11668]

Ran it today and at about 40 % with a pully gearing of about 1- 2.5 and it ran fine . Switched on by my Bob relay, and handled some pretty reasonable cutting loads without stalling or apparently overheating and its on board fuse did not appear to be challenged by half an hour of running.
So it will allow me to play while I decide on a more permanent option.

Looks pretty uncomplicated inside too . It has a pot too so wonder if PWM could be added instead .
Clearly it is not designed to handle the TCL Motor but wonse what it might take to build a beefed up version.

[John11668]

But then several hours later i tried again
Bang, tripped electricity , blew its own internal fuse , so clearly not quite up to the task.

Any better suggestions anyone ?

There are controllers for treadmills for not silly bucks .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-PCS-Brand-New-Control-Board-For-Yijian-9003DC-Treadmill/114385911728?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Anyone got experience of them?

[Lahdiel]

well, actually mines for the spindle of a 190vmc not a lathe, i'm using a dc powered pwm controller

[John11668]

well, actually mines for the spindle of a 190vmc not a lathe, i'm using a dc powered pwm controller

Where did you source yours Lahdiel

[John11668]

Was looking at this
https://inverterdrive.com/group/DC-Thyristor-Drive/Sprint-340-3A-Drive-DC-1PH-LV60-Non-Isolated-1Q/

Guys at inverterdrive reckon it should handle the motor which I believe is 490 w , so will report back .

[Doddy]

You'll hate me for saying this - I threw one of those away a while back (was originally attached to a Denford Starmill).

I thought (could be wrong - you know my memory!) your motor was rated at 120VDC?

[John11668]

[QUOTE=Doddy;123436]You'll hate me for saying this - I threw one of those away a while back (was originally attached to a Denford Starmill).
/QUOTE]

Have just added you to my "Hate " list

Lenze controller output is 170v dc (to armature) with a seperate field output if needed although this is a permanent magnet motor so field not used and up to 12 A . No details on the motor at all.

Was just looking for starmill motor details but unable to find .

[Lahdiel]

i built my own but you can find similar to what i'm using looking up 60v pwm controller, not sure what voltage yours will be but i've seen over 100 intended for those spindles on routers

[John11668]

Turns out that when I blew the cheap chinese controller I took out the Bob too, so when I installed the new driver strange things went on including motor running slow , pulsing on and off . When I checked volts at the relay and pot terminals the motor started and the circuit breaker in the machine blew. Alsofound that the the Bob relay was continually made . Replaced BoB and tried again and this time the controller does not work at all . I dont know whether it is duff or whether I have blown that too. They are unisolated units with a floating pot input like lenze so not suitable to connect the pwm direct from the computer . I hadnt been bothered as I hoped to use the DIYCNC board to overcome that but now when ordering a replacement and after some consideration I have decided to go for this .
https://inverterdrive.com/group/DC-Thyristor-Drive/Sprint-340i-3A-Drive-DC-1PH-LV60-Isolated-1Q/

A bit more pricey but will take the computer pwm output
Arriving tomorrow so will have another go then.

[John11668]

Amazingly the new driver arrived today ( Sunday lunchtime via Dpd) so installed and tested .
Works a treat.
It is neat, isolated so should work with pwm staight from BoB , and has lots of options for trimming ramp speed, max speed max current so all in all I am pleased with it .

Having some difficulty getting the spindle speed control working in Linux . (am sure we will get there) but going back to mach tomorrow just to prove to myself that The spindle index function is still working OK there , in which case it should be configurable in linux.

One thing which concerns me and am not sure if it is my mistake , but if I havent yet switched on my computer but have switched on the machine , the spindle relay is energised ,
This means that the spindle runs with no call for it to do so .
Is this a general problem or is it me ??
Why is the spindle relay energised when there is no demand for that.????

[Kitwn]

John11668,

I have recently had a problem where my spindle started unexpectedly after the LinuxCNC PC closed down when I didn't expect it to. I suspect it was the cheap Chinese BOB that closed it's relay with the lack of a definite ON or OFF voltage from the computer. I plan to add an interlock switch to the spindle control which will interrupt the line from the relay and protect against spurious starts during tool changing.

[Doddy]

John,

If that DIYCNC board is the one with the dodgy PSU (private conversation) - that has a charge-pump circuit on it which, if enabled, will inhibit the outputs until it detects the charge-pump signal (just a toggling signal) from linuxCNC. That might be an easy win for you.

[John11668]

John11668,

I have recently had a problem where my spindle started unexpectedly after the LinuxCNC PC closed down when I didn't expect it to. I suspect it was the cheap Chinese BOB that closed it's relay with the lack of a definite ON or OFF voltage from the computer. I plan to add an interlock switch to the spindle control which will interrupt the line from the relay and protect against spurious starts during tool changing.

Hi Kitwn
I can own up to having a cheap chinese board (one of several)
If I shut down Mach3 the spindle pulses .
With the same board I shut down Linux cnc and the spindle runs, and would run forever unless I turn off the mains to the machine. The only difference is that Mach runs through a UC100 controller but the computer is switched off .
Linux runs through PP but once again the computer is off.
When I switch on the relay light on the Bob is illuminated.

[John11668]

John,

If that DIYCNC board is the one with the dodgy PSU (private conversation) - that has a charge-pump circuit on it which, if enabled, will inhibit the outputs until it detects the charge-pump signal (just a toggling signal) from linuxCNC. That might be an easy win for you.

Hi doddy
I killed that board a while ago , Cant remember what I did to it. Maybe it was when I blew up the 12v PSU
I seem to have blown up more things than Blaster Bates. :hysterical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6otv8fyaG8

Is there a cheap replacement out there? (I have ancestors from yorkshire) or do you want to see if you can revive this board again :lemo:

[Kitwn]

Hi Kitwn
I can own up to having a cheap chinese board (one of several)
If I shut down Mach3 the spindle pulses .
With the same board I shut down Linux cnc and the spindle runs, and would run forever unless I turn off the mains to the machine. The only difference is that Mach runs through a UC100 controller but the computer is switched off .
Linux runs through PP but once again the computer is off.
When I switch on the relay light on the Bob is illuminated.

It might be possible to prevent this problem by fitting a resistor somewhere on the BOB to pull the relay control line to ground but without a circuit diagram it would be difficult to work out where it should go. Under normal working conditions you don't expect the PC to shut down suddenly but a safety interlock for tool changing is definately a good idea. I'm sure there is a discussion about this on the forum from a year or two back.

[Doddy]

Hi doddy
I killed that board a while ago , Cant remember what I did to it. Maybe it was when I blew up the 12v PSU
I seem to have blown up more things than Blaster Bates. :hysterical:


I was biting my tongue to not comment on that :)




Is there a cheap replacement out there? (I have ancestors from yorkshire) or do you want to see if you can revive this board again :lemo:

It's easy to say - that you should be able to source a standalone charge-pump circuit, but I did struggle to find a UK source given a couple of google searches. I'm sure they're still available somewhere. It does make a bit of a hash of your cabinet with spurious boards... but I think that you're not afraid of that.

Happy to look at your old board, though there comes a time when you just have to let go!, if it does float my way then I think this time I will recover that 12V on board supply despite your earlier protestations. Alternatively I might knock up a few charge-pump relay boards - if/when I get roundtuit I could throw a couple in the post. But there's a timeline for that which involves china.

[John11668]

I had actually ordered one of these .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Breakout-Board-CNC-6-axis-Interface-Adapter-DIY-Engraving-Machine-MACH3-USB/252018088125?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Mainly with a view to having a couple of relays if I wanted to use coolant (or even reverse )
Similar boards on ebay specifically mention the CP as one of their features . This one doesnt mention one but it does have the same jumper and you can clearly see "pump" alongside one of the jumpers ( clear in last pic)

Space is not really an issue now that I have removed the Lenze along with its Iso board and relay.
New controller is much more compact. and has a lot less wiring
https://inverterdrive.com/group/DC-Thyristor-Drive/Sprint-340i-3A-Drive-DC-1PH-LV60-Isolated-1Q/

I may have to leave space for the latching relay to go back in if I am ever choose to use reverse and should fit on the din rail alongside my new controller
If this BoB is suitable then it wont take up much more space than the current one anyway.