Totally new to the world of CNC.... Not yet received my machine

[MikeS]

Hello to ALL on the forum...

I'm totally new to the world of CNC machines... spent the best part of 3 weeks watching and listening to various you tube clips on the subject and visiting various sites for cnc resellers... Set myself a budget of under £1000 for the purchase of a machine, but wanted something bigger than the 400mm x 180mm that seemed to be in the basic or hobbyist range.... I settled on an x carve... aware of its advantages and shortcomings... I then set about finding a machine for the price range I had set myself... I came to the conclusion either a 1000mm x carve or custom build a machine through buying parts... Online I found an x carve clone... all well sourced parts and after making an offer bought it for £775... it is now on its way...

Am prepared for setbacks, problems, a steep learning curve and at some stage some upgrades or modifications. One common upgrade seems to be stiffening of the x axis and both y axis...

I'm constructing my own worktable to mount it on.... got some good local steel suppliers and I have a drop saw that will cut light steel and a drill press... A track saw will help me cut the work surfaces to suitable sizes.

Hoping to learn lots on these pages.

[Kitwn]

Welcome to the forum Mike. You'll certainly find plenty of advice here!

It is a steep learning curve, but an interetsting journey. Have you decided on software for your design work yet? Plenty of options out there to choose from, Fusion 360, Vectric and CamBam to name a few.

Kit

[MikeS]

Hello Kit, Thanks for the friendly welcome... I've not made any decision on software yet.
I'd like to create my own designs... or use downloadable files if it is something I want to do.
As I understand it there is a two part process .... creating the design and then determining the cutting paths/depths/speed of cut etc

I thought I might use the free trial option a lot of software offers before buying... or use open source software.

Always open to suggestions.... Someone told me I needed a 'gaming standard' laptop to run suitable software.... So one of the first things I need to do is find a suitable laptop... probably s/h.... My 17" HP is ancient and runs as slow as a no.4 bus on a wet week when there is a ton of roadworks... It may not, most likely isn't, even be upto the task.... I have a Lenovo Thinkpad... but that is supplied by County and I don't have admin rights to install software etc.

[MikeS]

Yeah... just tried to download CamBam on my Lenovo.... 'The administrator won't let you install this software.'

[indulisap]

When it comes to a suitable computer for diy cnc, then my recommendation is to use a computer from a cash register. If you are looking for an ebay, a used one can be bought for about ~ 200 euros with a licensed WIN7. (Switching from 64-bit to 32-bit license remains)
They have a touch screen IN ONE HOUSING with a PC and better durability than home computers 2969029691

[indulisap]

29692

[Doddy]

Someone told me I needed a 'gaming standard' laptop to run suitable software.... So one of the first things I need to do is find a suitable laptop... probably s/h....

Why a laptop and not a desktop?, laptops tend to be configured to run low-powered, throttling performance and periodic health/battery management activities which make then a little less ideal than a more conventional desktop for CNC (where, if you're using the machine as the CNC motion controller you need more deterministic behaviour).

Also, what's the interface between the PC and the CNC?, if a parallel-port BoB then you need to make sure the laptop has a parallel port - few modern ones do. And there could still be problems with 3v3 operation (though I think that's not as much of a problem as has been made in the past).

I'd urge caution with the PoS units - again, make sure that they have the parallel port (if needed); their touch screens are generally robust but they can be very low performance, or thin-clients. The latter I've had some experience of and rejected for use in a CNC machine.

Your first job whilst waiting for delivery is to understand the interface between machine and PC, and that then helps to define the back-end of the tool-chain. Is there any indication of bundled software such as "mach3" ?

[routerdriver]

Ignore whoever told you that a gaming standard computer is necessary.Just about anything will do the job.In the distant past I was using a 450Mhz Pentium 2 with a mighty 64Mb RAM to generate 5 axis toolpaths with Windows NT.You would find it almost impossible to buy a computer that isn't light years ahead of that.Clearly a super high spec machine will do in hundredths of a second the things that a more humble computer would take tenths of a second to accomplish.Which in the overall timespan of completing a hobby project is of very little significance.

The challenge thats looming will be to resist trying to use the machine while gaining a level of competence with whatever software is chosen.Good software is essential and often expensive but you absolutely have to have something.A few troglodytes insist that typing Gcode is as good as it gets and like to sit in front of a keyboard with a print of a part and a calculator as they input Gcode for the tool centre path.They tend to have encountered CNC in the eighties when such stuff was common and have never seen how much more can be accomplished if you let the machine that otherwise gets used for posting nonsense on social networks do the same task in a fraction of a second.I know nothing of CamBam but it has ben around for a while,Fusion was extremely popular until the subscription model was introduced and I suspect a good number of people are paying up rather than learning the quirks of another piece of software.Vectric is something I have little knowledge of as a pal has it and it is very quick at generating toolpaths,it does use quirky vocabulary and the CAD side is less than stellar at least at Vcarve level.For my hobby machine,I went with Freecad,in part because I had some prior experience with parametric software and also because it had a post processor for the LinuxCNC that runs my hobby machine.I am very happy with it but for a newbie to 3D modelling it might take some getting used to.

One way to have a bit of low cost fun is to download F-engrave and Camotics.The first will allow you to create toolpaths for engraving lettering or clip art and the second will allow you to watch the simulation.Its always a good thing to run a simulation just in case a retract height is insufficient or some other woe is lurking to snare the unwary.Have fun.

[Kitwn]

Hello Kit, Thanks for the friendly welcome... I've not made any decision on software yet.
I'd like to create my own designs... or use downloadable files if it is something I want to do.
As I understand it there is a two part process .... creating the design and then determining the cutting paths/depths/speed of cut etc

I thought I might use the free trial option a lot of software offers before buying... or use open source software.

Always open to suggestions.... Someone told me I needed a 'gaming standard' laptop to run suitable software.... So one of the first things I need to do is find a suitable laptop... probably s/h.... My 17" HP is ancient and runs as slow as a no.4 bus on a wet week when there is a ton of roadworks... It may not, most likely isn't, even be upto the task.... I have a Lenovo Thinkpad... but that is supplied by County and I don't have admin rights to install software etc.

Several others have offered you advice already and you will see there is sometimes more on offer than you want! In order...

Creating the design is Computer Aided Design (CAD). This involves making a drawing of what you want and can involve any 2D or 3D drawing package.

Computer Aided Machining (CAM) is the next stage of creating the instructions your machine will follow to cut out the design. CAD and CAM are combined in all the software I mentioned earlier and I don't think many serious players are doing these two stages in separate packages these days. CAM produces what is called 'G code' instructions. These are simple text instructions which originated with manual programming (Numerical Control or NC) of machine moves just after WW2. Now we use computers to generate the code hence Computer Numeric Control (CNC). The individual instructions are for simple moves but if you combine many tens or hundreds of thousands of tiny moves you can cut some very complex shapes. You would not code that by hand!

The final stage is machine control. A list of G code can be fed into almost any machine but how those instructions are converted into physical movements of the machine itself depends on the specific hardware. How many motor revolutions per mm of movement on eac axis? What's the maximum speed and acceleration YOUR machine can move at? This is completely separate from CAD/CAM and can involve a built-in controller as part of the machine you buy or software that runs on a computer and talks to the machine via an interface such as USB (not generally regarded as reliable), Parallel port (works, is cheap, but not found on laptops or recent PC hardware) or Ethernet (preferred by many on this forum for new equipment).

Re the computer for CAD/CAM: I use a ten year old HP laptop with an early i7 processor which I've upgraded to Windows 10 and it works fine with CamBam which does not have fancy graphics but works well for me. Upgrading to a solid state HD and adding some more memory (8GB is much better than 4) will liven up an old machine quite well. I also use a similar vintage, not expensive DIY desktop machine which works well and have a lovely 32 inch XHD resolution monitor on it which is great for drawing and the best single upgrade I've ever made. Fusion 360 has some fancy rendering capabilities which will require more graphics power but 'gaming' is way above the level were talking here for anything but highly detailed sculpture work.

More waffle than I intended, but one last point: What is best for you will depend partly on what kind of things you want to make. Bass relief carvings, signs for houses and businesses or mechanical parts? The best advice for your needs will come from people who are experienced in making the same kind of things you want to make. Which isn't necesarilly me.

Kit

[MikeS]

The challenge thats looming will be to resist trying to use the machine while gaining a level of competence with whatever software is chosen...
... Heh heh heh heh heh... I expect fully to be creating some interesting pieces of 'scrap,' for the iron burner we have in the garden...
But... I do see your point concerning the type of interface and suitable computer. I'd prefer a laptop (touch screen would be nice)... reason being whatever I use needs to serve dual or threal purpose... Also portability... I expect to be doing the computer based work in the comfort of indoors rather than my garage.... Not fussed about battery life... my old HP gave up the ghost on its battery several years ago, so when I use it, I keep it plugged into the mains so battery life isn't a problem... but I do think I'll need a newer machine.... I'll contact the seller and find out about the type of interface in the meantime....
Some amazingly sound advice coming thru on this forum... I joined a couple of FB pages but they seem to be more focussed on 'look at what I made,' rather than any useful advice or discussion.
Thanks

[routerdriver]

Now I've done a quick search I see that an Xcarve runs via an arduino.I know almost nothing about them,beyond having bought a couple for experimenting when I was deciding what software would be best for driving my machine.I didn't like the brave new world of sketches and writing them so I bought the box and monitor from ebay for a total of £28 to run LinuxCNC on my homebrew machine.Other than being a bit bulky I am very happy with the solution because I also installed Freecad on it and configured the post processor to generate the correct code.I can also listen to online radio as its just within wifi range of the house.Although it might attract a bit of tut-tutting,I can model the part and listen to the radio while the computer is running the machine.I can also halt the program and edit feed rate if I wish,without having to wander indoors and take a footful of sawdust with me.All with a 2.7GHz dual core box with 4Gb Ram.

I really don't recommend putting blanks on the machine with an approach that says they could still be firewood if anything goes wrong.At some point in the early stages it [I]will [I] go wrong .You need to determine a way to unravel the situation before ever doing any machining.Pressing Estop should stop the spindle being moved,will it stop the cutter turning?Then you need to know how to disengage Estop and get the stub of the cutter out of the mess.You might be able to jog the machine back to it's home position and re-home it or you might find it wise to check the tramming of the spindle.To start with;simulate and watch carefully then run the first sequence or two in fresh air then maybe progress to polystyrene or similar foam.When you are happy that the piece coming off the machine will be what you intend it to be and the machine will still be in working order its time to make sawdust.

[MikeS]

My firewood comment was very tongue in cheek... Do intend to take the whole process seriously... Some excellent points RouterD... In fact I'm going to need to go over all the responses so far and make some notes... in an old fashioned pencil and notebook way... of key points and advice.
I cannot believe the amazing responses compared to the FB pages... which essentially have been non existent.
Yep... like the idea of a radio... My garage (not big) doubles as workshop and gym... have a discarded (by one of my sons) 32" HD tv with usb and hdmi inputs... been thinking of wall mounting that as a sort of extra monitor...can also access radio thru it... far less distracting than tv

[MikeS]

I'm guessing that having made an intro on the new members pages I should be moving more into the other discussion areas... Tried to make a post on one of the other pages... but everything came up blank.... Am I doing something wrong???
Oh!.... The first part of my x carve style kit arrived today (Tues)... the actual makita router... the rest should arrive tomorrow (Wed 16/03).... Yay.
Oh... and to all the responses received to my introduction... so much information and advice.

[routerdriver]

Exciting times!Any progress with creating designs and simulating toolpaths?

[MikeS]

Not yet.... my tablet (Samsung isn't upto running the software, my old HP totally incapable of running the software and my County supplied Lenovo Thinkpad I don't have administration rights to install software... My elder son... B Sc in computer science and a very well paid software engineer for a currency company says I need a new laptop... I was going to buy a sort of newish s/h one from fleabay... but got outbid on a promising one...BUT... here's the good bit... my son says he is going to buy me a new one in the easter IT sales... he is a very generous and good hearted lad (earns by far more than me)...So I will have to wait...heh heh.... Meanwhile my younger son is already planning on how we can use the machine, once we learn how.... to make some electric guitar bodies, and possibly necks and fret boards.... He has about 7 or 8 here at home and another half dozen in LA... Both my lads have returned to the family compound since the start of this covid business.... I also need to build a new shed... Which I'm doing from scratch to replace a little tinny... this will create added storage and or work space... I've designed a shed and can build it ... with a concrete floor not wood... for a fraction of the cost of a pre manufactured shed.

[routerdriver]

If guitars are a consideration,take a look at this video it takes a lot of the legwork out of the process.You still need to learn the machining part and could watch the machine cutting air or foam before committing a piece of quality hardwood to the machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeRDKbk4zXg

[MikeS]

Hello Router D.... Excellent advice... will watch the clip closely... I think my son should be forming a band... heh heh heh.

[MikeS]

Tried to put a new thread on General Discussion... Wouldn't let me ??? Am back onn this thread again so I know I'm logged in.

[MikeS]

My machine finally arrived last week... DPD could not deliver it... They simply could not. They said they had no contact details for me and could not collect the VAT on import owing. Yet I exchanged well over a dozen, probably two dozen emails with them... All they coulddo was to send it back to the seller I bought it from. He sent me a replacement straightaway while the first was on the way back... This came via Fedex... They had no problems collecting the import VAT and had it to me, tout suite.

[MikeS]

I have not assembled my machine yet... My first step is to build a work station for it to go on... This makes sense to me rather than build the machine and then put it to one side while I make a work station. Have made detailed drawings based upon a work station I saw on You Tube... Once complete this will give me a surface on which to build my machine... I'd upload photos of my design, but cannot see how this is done... Hmm... still can't post to general chat or other pages.

[Kitwn]

I have not assembled my machine yet... My first step is to build a work station for it to go on... This makes sense to me rather than build the machine and then put it to one side while I make a work station. Have made detailed drawings based upon a work station I saw on You Tube... Once complete this will give me a surface on which to build my machine... I'd upload photos of my design, but cannot see how this is done... Hmm... still can't post to general chat or other pages.

Now you have made more than 10 posts you should be able to add pictures. Click on the 3rd from left icon on the top bar of the quick reply box (hover over it and it opens a label "Insert Image") You should get a box with 'Browse' and 'Upload Images'. Not all formats are supported, JPEG works OK and I think from something I've read before that there is an image size limit. I usually crop everything to no more than 1000 pixels wide before uploading.

I'm not sure why you are having problems posting to other threads, there's nothing special about this one that I'm aware of. My only sugestion is to try a different browser or even a different computer if you can.

Kit