Newbie Novice

[WoodKnot]

Good morning to all -

I am sure you have been asked this question so many times - its a 'oh not again!!

I have not got a Scoobie Doo about CNC, have fancied having a go for some years, but been investing in 'other kit' for my workshop, making jigs, storage etc for my home workshop.

I am looking to make signs and craft style projects out of MR MDF and Birch ply.

I have looked at the workbee and several other 'off the shelf' hobby cnc machines.

The first issue is the machine itself, then the software and costs escalate rapidly.

Any advice would be really appreciated - looking at about 2K for the machine and software - already have the router.

Thanks

[WoodKnot]

Good afternoon all -

based on the threads that I can see about the kit models - there is another 'much more substantial kit that i have been looking at - an goes well over my budget, considering its just for the frame. Here's the link: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Machines/CNC-Router/ERS8080BB
What sort of cost do you think i will be looking at to get this operational? Thanks in advance

[phill05]

Looking at that for that price £1800 I would say you would be much better off buying the components and building it yourself or with help from others on here.

Best bet sit down and design out what you want for your machine, plenty of builds on here to look at try it you could save yourself a lot of trouble and money.

Phill

[Clive S]

Good afternoon all -

based on the threads that I can see about the kit models - there is another 'much more substantial kit that i have been looking at - an goes well over my budget, considering its just for the frame. Here's the link: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Machines/CNC-Router/ERS8080BB
What sort of cost do you think i will be looking at to get this operational? Thanks in advance

According to their website the same model with all the motors drive etc comes out at £5800 + vat+ del.

For that price Dean Jazzcnc could possibly build you one twice as good with propper motors and drives.

[WoodKnot]

Hi Clive

I thought that was because of the bed etc to be fair. This is a large site with a huge amount of posts, can someone point me in the right direction of where I should be looking at the builds to start figuring out what I need?

[Clive S]

Hi Clive

I thought that was because of the bed etc to be fair. This is a large site with a huge amount of posts, can someone point me in the right direction of where I should be looking at the builds to start figuring out what I need?

OK. Joe is on here and has built a fine machine this is his Youtube channel for his build it is also document on this forum.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1FIADAKba_uTgFU5qqS3i705fuSogBXT

I would not purchase anything until you have a good understanding of what you want. Just ask questions, yes lots of them.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks Clive for the pointer, I thought this was thing I could do quite quickly?

Obviously not!

[WoodKnot]

Just watched the video Clive, that's a huge machine and some serious engineering involved. I was looking for something way more simplistic. To be fair I don't want to spend the next few years building one! That's a lot of work!

[reelman]

According to their website the same model with all the motors drive etc comes out at £5800 + vat+ del.

For that price Dean Jazzcnc could possibly build you one twice as good with propper motors and drives.

As Clive S as said talk to Jazzcnc he is the man to speak to on here, there are a lot of posts and recommendations about the quality of the machines he builds. I personally don't know dean but I've followed a lot of his post and he says it as it is, follow this thread (my new machine Guess the make)

[JAZZCNC]

Good afternoon all -

based on the threads that I can see about the kit models - there is another 'much more substantial kit that i have been looking at - an goes well over my budget, considering its just for the frame. Here's the link: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Machines/CNC-Router/ERS8080BB
What sort of cost do you think i will be looking at to get this operational? Thanks in advance

Hi and welcome,

First to say is don't be fooled by the price of these kits, and I don't mean just from this company as most others are the same, they are not cheap, the truth is they actually work out more expensive by the time you have added all the missing pieces or invest in the upgrades offered, which more often than not are what should be on the machine anyway at the price they ask for the kits alone.

For instance, this kit in particular, look at each axis and how many linear bearings are fit.? One bearing per axis is completely unsuitable for a decent machine so even after spending £5800 for a fully working machine you will have a machine that is weak and lacking.

The amount of engineering that goes into these profile kits is so basic anyone with a half-decent workshop could build the frame for much less, however, the frame alone doesn't make a good machine. The design and the engineering along with the components used are what makes a good machine and these cost a certain amount of money so trust me when I say this, NO company can build a machine for less than £2k or even £3k and make a profit unless they have cut corners which compromise the machine and its usability.

As people have pointed out to you I build machines but I'm not saying these things to steer you in my direction, I don't need to do that, I just don't like seeing people unwittingly buy the wrong machine or be mislead into buying a machine that isn't all it appears to be.

So my last word of caution is to watch out for machines and one steel-framed machine in particular that you may see on eBay which looks cheap, it's not and it would be the worse purchase you ever made.

Now I'm more than happy to help and advise you on building a machine if you want to take this route, in fact, I often encourage people to take this route if they have a limited budget that can't be increased. Because It's very possible to DIY build a machine that will knock the spots off many commercially available machines and nearly all the numerous kits like Workbee's Oznest etc.

However, if you can increase the budget and don't have the time or skills/tools required to DIY build then I'm also happy to help with either building a machine or offer honest impartial advice on any that you may have seen so just get in touch by emailing me here [email protected].

Cheers
Dean

[WoodKnot]

Good morning Jazzcnc - i would like to build one, as that way i can build the knowledge for when things go wrong, but looking for a project that i can build this year. Whilst i do have some engineering skills and woodworking skills, I have never welded, I am not set up to cut metals either. If you could recommend profiles, motors etc that would be great - and where to purchase them from? I don't ever foresee me needing a machine bigger than 1mtr x 1mtr to be honest. I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

[Clive S]

I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

Do you not think that the above is over ambitious. I think you are under estimating the weight and size. Lasers have to be able to run very fast that's why a lot of them are belt drive rather that ball screws.

Have a good read through some of the build logs http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/282-Gantry-Router-Machines-Building.

[JAZZCNC]

Good morning Jazzcnc - i would like to build one, as that way i can build the knowledge for when things go wrong, but looking for a project that i can build this year. Whilst i do have some engineering skills and woodworking skills, I have never welded, I am not set up to cut metals either. If you could recommend profiles, motors etc that would be great - and where to purchase them from? I don't ever foresee me needing a machine bigger than 1mtr x 1mtr to be honest. I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

Ok well first let me say I strongly agree with Clive S that you are being a little over-ambitious here, however, I will try to steer in the right direction when the time comes but unfortunately, you are very far from me or anyone being able to recommend anything at this point.

To advise accurately on important and expensive purchases like motors, drives, controllers and all the other related components requires you have a design to work with. There are many variables that come into play to choose the right components so without the design, I or anyone else can't possibly tell you what to buy.

My advice at the moment is to read and search out as many of the threads and build logs as you can, find a design that you like, and use this as a guide for your build, or simply just copy it. No one here would mind you if you straight copied their build, they probably did the same.!

Now the best advice by far and can't be stressed enough is DO NOT BUY ANYTHING, not so much as a nut or bolt until you have a firm plan and design in mind and have done the due diligence and research required. Rushing out and buying parts or Kits of parts is THE single biggest mistake new builders make and it's a very easy trap to fall down.

When you have done the research and have a design in mind then start a build thread and give an outline of what you have in mind. Ask all your questions in this thread so all the info and advice given is in one place rather than scattered around the forum, this will help you months down the line when you are trying to find any recommendations or advice given.

Now I won't blow smoke up your jacksy and say that DIY building is easy because it's not, a good machine requires careful planning and careful selection of components. It requires you have an all-around skill set of average electrical and mechanical knowledge and lots of patience.

However, it's very doable and many people with limited tools and engineering background have built some excellent machines, but in all cases 100% of them they all did the planning and research, most took many months or years to complete them.

Good luck and do the research.:thumsup:

[WoodKnot]

Hi Jazzcnc, thank you for your advice. I am not going to spend hundreds on cad and teach myself how to use it. Whilst I really do fully appreciate really well engineered machines, is there a point where you can over engineer something? I have seen a build that I do like, it's called indy build. I have been on open builds as well and looking at parts suppliers etc. I am starting to get my head around some of it, but the most basic element is the extrusion. Can someone at least point me in the right direction of whose is the best.

There are a lot of machines out there that do have good reviews, I agree that I can save money self building and taking ideas, upgrades etc from others builds

I am still happy with the size I want, its just who's is the best build to follow.?

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

[dazp1976]

Hi Jazzcnc, thank you for your advice. I am not going to spend hundreds on cad and teach myself how to use it. Whilst I really do fully appreciate really well engineered machines, is there a point where you can over engineer something? I have seen a build that I do like, it's called indy build. I have been on open builds as well and looking at parts suppliers etc. I am starting to get my head around some of it, but the most basic element is the extrusion. Can someone at least point me in the right direction of whose is the best.

There are a lot of machines out there that do have good reviews, I agree that I can save money self building and taking ideas, upgrades etc from others builds

I am still happy with the size I want, its just who's is the best build to follow.?

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

I think you need to find some suitable CAD/CAM software you can use and are happy with BEFORE you buy anything else.
I think your jaw might drop at the cost of some of it.
I'll be honest and say I only started messing with this cnc stuff because I was lucky (or unlucky, because as a hobby it's a bottomless £ pit). Lucky to have been gifted some decent software.
I would never have touched a machine otherwise.

[WoodKnot]

Good afternoon all -

I know its fast, but really like the Indybuild and have decided that as i will not be milling anything other than MDF, PLY and maybe some light weight aluminium, i think it should do me fine. I have done some quick calculations and it looks like i can build a far superior machine than the workbee for less money! I have already purchased his plans for just $12 and his instructions, parts list videos are all very good. I know a few engineers that can cnc some plates up for me - going for 8mm thick plate. In terms of software, i have yet to make up my mind and may look at the electronics of others, but for the machine itself, i think that will do me just fine.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks Daz - yes, £1500 upwards for some of them and a whole new learning curve as well. There is a lot to learn, not just the machine build, the motors, electrics, software, speeds, tooling, but there is a lot more taking to it. With the help on here and other similar sites, there is a staggering amount of knowledge, its just also atkes huge amount of time sifting through it all. Love Youtube and have used it for years as a resource. What software are you using by the way? is it intuitive? Is it worth the money?

[JAZZCNC]

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

It will be a good starting point to learn, however, I wouldn't call it substantial by any means and it will show when you start to take deeper cuts with larger tools, it will especially show in harder materials like Aluminium or Brass and even some hardwoods.
The problem with machines made like this with a relatively small profile is the vibrations that affect the tool when cutting. The resonance thru the frame causes chatter at the tool which at best leads to poor surface finish and excess tool wear but more often than not tool failure, esp in materials like aluminium or brass.

Don't underestimate the strength needed for a good CNC router, you don't need the strength because you are going to mill huge heavy lumps of material, you need it to dampen vibrations and stop flex etc. Designs like these just don't have the mass, bracing and strength to allow cutting material correctly.

It's a common mistake new users make to think that they can cut at any speed they like so if the machine is weak they will just slow down because they are not in a rush and it's just for fun.! . . . . Well as anyone who has built a weak machine will tell you it's no fun snapping cutters like carrots and wrecking expensive material and quickly gets frustrating not to mention expensive.
Every material and tool requires a certain feed and speed to cut correctly and the machine plays a large part in this, so if the structure can't handle the required feeds then your always going to struggle.

However, as a learning exercise then it's a fair design for a first build, just don't expect too much from it.

[Kitwn]

There's a wide choice of software available for designing the components you want to make and one of the criteria to consider is what type of pieces you want to make. If you are thinking of more 'engineering' shapes that are mostly cutting out holes or pockets at fixed depths then I would suggest you look at CamBam. You can download a free trial and I've used it for years and been very happy with it. It isn't expensive and the license is pay once, upgrades for life. There's a very good support forum and many excellent plug-ins available free which significantly extend what it can do. The learning curve is not too steep.

For more arty stuff, carving bass-relief designs in particular, Vectric is the go-to product for most people. I've just got the basic Desktop version to try out. This is more expensive, especially if you want to do your own 3D designs but comes in three flavours (Desktop, Pro and Aspire) so you can work your way up the cost tree if you want to start small (no larger than 600 x 600mm) and see if you like it. There is no cost penalty for this as the upgrade price is simply the difference in the basic cost of each package. Again there are free trail downloads which, though very restricted, let you try before you buy.

Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists, extremely capable, though the limitations for non-paying users have become more restrictive recently, and it has, for me, proved difficult to learn how to make it do what I want. I've tried it and given up a couple of times and stuck to CamBam instead. Other users have much more success with it.

You can pay more for software than for the machine if you want to buy the full professional capabilities but there are plenty of us making useful stuff without having spent that much.

Kit

[WoodKnot]

It will be a good starting point to learn, however, I wouldn't call it substantial by any means and it will show when you start to take deeper cuts with larger tools, it will especially show in harder materials like Aluminium or Brass and even some hardwoods.
The problem with machines made like this with a relatively small profile is the vibrations that affect the tool when cutting. The resonance thru the frame causes chatter at the tool which at best leads to poor surface finish and excess tool wear but more often than not tool failure, esp in materials like aluminium or brass.

Don't underestimate the strength needed for a good CNC router, you don't need the strength because you are going to mill huge heavy lumps of material, you need it to dampen vibrations and stop flex etc. Designs like these just don't have the mass, bracing and strength to allow cutting material correctly.

It's a common mistake new users make to think that they can cut at any speed they like so if the machine is weak they will just slow down because they are not in a rush and it's just for fun.! . . . . Well as anyone who has built a weak machine will tell you it's no fun snapping cutters like carrots and wrecking expensive material and quickly gets frustrating not to mention expensive.
Every material and tool requires a certain feed and speed to cut correctly and the machine plays a large part in this, so if the structure can't handle the required feeds then your always going to struggle.

However, as a learning exercise then it's a fair design for a first build, just don't expect too much from it.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks again Jazzcnc


I had thought of upgrading it and using C frame and also thicker rails (15mm) and also thicker ball screws (8mm)

What I am struggling to come to grips with, is that there is a huge amount of hobby CNC guys out there that have purchased these 2 to 3K machines that appear to be 'not up to the task'

All these open builds appear to be built on the same or similar profiles.................

[WoodKnot]

Hi Kitwan, I am struggling with the software to be honest and just cannot decide which option i should choose. I laid out half a sheet of 22mm MR Medite MDF last night as i want this to be under a workstation. Although i have a big workshop, space is still a premium and i think the largest machine i can get away with is 800 x 800. I dont know what that means in terms of actual cutting area. But an 800x800 machine takes up more space than that once you factor in the motors etc. I have allowed 100mm all the way around the machine, is that reasonable or not?

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks again Jazzcnc


I had thought of upgrading it and using C frame and also thicker rails (15mm) and also thicker ball screws (8mm)

There you go you see you are already upgrading and haven't even built it.! . . . Plus you would be upgrading it with components that are not ideal.
This is why we tell people to do the research and check out build threads so they can see the differences and why we fit and recommend the things we do.!


What I am struggling to come to grips with, is that there is a huge amount of hobby CNC guys out there that have purchased these 2 to 3K machines that appear to be 'not up to the task'

All these open builds appear to be built on the same or similar profiles.................

Well often it's because they don't know any better, often it's the first machine they have experienced and indeed it does cut, but that doesn't mean it's cutting correctly or efficiently.
Only when they get a better-built machine do they realise just how poorly it was cutting and what can be achieved with a stronger machine. I see this all the time with customers who have started with work-bees or open build type machines, their jaws drop when they see a 12mm cutter cut through 18mm MDF in one pass. Only after they have had one for a few weeks do they realise just how compromising and limiting the machine was to them.

We see this happen on the forum when people have built machines from plans and the CNC Bug truly bites them, they upgrade and waste money only to eventually realise "you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still pork at the end of the day" only when they start to listen and do the research and build a better machine do they understand how bad the old one was.!

Also, very few want to admit they have bought a lemon because they want to sell them on. Ask anyone who has bought one and moved onto a properly built machine and you will get the true answer.

Now I realise when I say these things people will think I'm just saying these things to sell machines or steer people in my direction and indeed it does at times stop me posting some things I could, but this honestly isn't the case.

I say what I say so people go into buying these things with their eyes wide open and fully aware of what they are buying because the last thing I want is new CNC users being turned off CNC because they have bought inferior machines thinking they are capable of much more than they truly are only to be frustrated and give up.
Again I see this happen all too often and ALL my advice is based on real-world experience with helping people and not just customers, people on various forums who have sought me out.

However, at the end of the day, it's down to the individual to whether they believe or trust what I'm saying. Sooner or later they find out one way or the other.

[Kitwn]

Hi Kitwan, I am struggling with the software to be honest and just cannot decide which option i should choose. I laid out half a sheet of 22mm MR Medite MDF last night as i want this to be under a workstation. Although i have a big workshop, space is still a premium and i think the largest machine i can get away with is 800 x 800. I dont know what that means in terms of actual cutting area. But an 800x800 machine takes up more space than that once you factor in the motors etc. I have allowed 100mm all the way around the machine, is that reasonable or not?

I wrote a long load of blather to try and help but I've just been reading back over it and noticed you said you do have a big workshop. I've deleted it all and instead would seriously suggest you have a good look at whether there are other less serious compromises you could make elsewhere and NOT try to build a CNC router that fits under a work station. Your spine will not thank you for either lifting the machine out onto a bench to use or for grovelling about on the floor to use it in situ (I've spent part of today pushing a wheel-chair, I mean that last comment seriously). Put castors under your bandsaw and improve the shelving for more floor-efficient storage instead of going down what could prove to be an over-expensive and ultimately disappointing and painful path with your router.

Kit

[WoodKnot]

Hi Kitwin, thank you very much for your comment, which i do take seriously!

However, my plan is to build a new workstation and have the cnc under the top, The top will be about 95cm high, the same height as all my other benches. My next job was to be to figure out the total height of the cnc machine. Its a b it like chicken and egg this, i just always seem to be at the embryonic stage and not knowing exactly what I am looking at!

[WoodKnot]

Wow, that's a lot in a single pass. I probably would not do that with my large 1/2 inch DeWalt or Makita routers to be fair. I want something in between. I could get a top of the range Range Rover, but a reasonable Land Rover would get the job done just as well. I am sure your machines are very impressive, but what is middle of the road for you? Or do they always have to be the best specification?

I could buy Festool, but love Dewalt and Makita products - if it does the job and works well, that's good enough for me.

I want to make a few cute signs, some Christmas stuff, i am not looking for something that will 'make a living'

[WoodKnot]

Hi all - Software -

Been having a play with Easel and it seems very intuitive, takes a lot of the painful calculations out of the equation and very easy to use. Anyone using it and without paying gazillions more, is there anything better in that price range? Thanks

[WoodKnot]

Hello all again - OK, seen another nice build - Piranha based on C beam - looks best build so far based on what I am looking for. So, thought I would order all their plates as a kit and save myself a lot of hassle, until i worked out the price - £460.00 just for the plates - Jeez - i think that is really expensive!

Also motors and spindle - Nema 23 stepper motors, what are the angles all about? - is nothing straight forward?

Sprindle, does it need to be water cooled, i thought people just used a router like Makita or Dewalt.

Anyone used the Openbuilds Blackbox for the controller etc?

Sorry, i was trying to keep it simple, but the more you read, the more complex it becomes!!

Has anyone got a build using C Beam, with a reasonably priced Plate kit that i can purchase please.?

Its like you need a CNC to make CNC - self defeating observation.

[dazp1976]

Its like you need a CNC to make CNC - self defeating observation.

This statement pretty much hits the nail on the head :nightmare::emptiness:

[JAZZCNC]

Wow, that's a lot in a single pass. I probably would not do that with my large 1/2 inch DeWalt or Makita routers to be fair. I want something in between. I could get a top of the range Range Rover, but a reasonable Land Rover would get the job done just as well. I am sure your machines are very impressive, but what is middle of the road for you? Or do they always have to be the best specification?

I could buy Festool, but love Dewalt and Makita products - if it does the job and works well, that's good enough for me.

I want to make a few cute signs, some Christmas stuff, i am not looking for something that will 'make a living'

To be fair while the machines are very capable of doing this, in reality, you wouldn't really cut that aggressively to be fair, but the point of the comment wasn't for bragging rights to how good my machines are it was to make the point that a properly built machine is much more capable.

I understand what you think your needs are at this moment in time are simple, but experience has shown me and many others on here will probably agree that when the CNC bug bites you will quickly want to do more advanced projects and it's at this point you start to realize the weaknesses of these low-end kits and electronics/software. Nothing more frustrating than wrecking materials and tools along with wasting many hours because the machine just can't handle the job.

Now obviously, can see I'm wasting my time trying to steer you in the right direction and away from these weaker machines and kits, you also seem to be ignoring the advice to do research to learn what does what and why it's required. So all that's left to be said is good luck.!!

[WoodKnot]

Now obviously, can see I'm wasting my time trying to steer you in the right direction and away from these weaker machines and kits, you also seem to be ignoring the advice to do research to learn what does what and why it's required. So all that's left to be said is good luck.!![/QUOTE]

Thank you Jazzcnc - your the engineer - I am not even an apprentice

However, i have neither the funds nor the time to spend on a top machine and I am having to sell off some older woodworking equipment to fund my build.

I cut a 22mm MR MDF sheet last night to 1000 x 1000, allowing 100mm around perimeter of the base (100mm base, top and either side) with an 800x800 centre box area for the machine. That's not a big machine at all from what i have seen.

Where do i get decent plates from? Unless i make them from 18mm birch ply?
Do i get my C Beam from Oozenest?
Best place to get the motors and Nema 23's any good?
Ball screws & rails, best place to buy?

[routerdriver]

I haven't ploughed through all of this thread,so I might have missed some stuff.You can use a normal router to spin the cutters,but be aware that it needs a bit of care.The plates for the support can be almost anything that is stiff enough and if it isn't initially stiff enough you can always bolt a piece of steel angle to it.Far too many first timers seem to want a copy of a machine they have seen promoted by the originator as a wonderful thing,which it may be compared to marking out a sheet with a pencil and cutting it out with a jigsaw.What it never seems to be is remotely comparable with an entry level professional machine.

How about posting a CAD model or even a decent sketch of your design for a critique?There are enough experienced eyes here to spot any defect if you are mature enough to accept the comments and not inclined to fly off into the territory of "yes but....." and plough on with the original and it's shortcomings.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks routerdriver -

That's effectively what i have decided to do. Whilst i fully appreciate what is being said here - the machines here are serious builds, being engineered on big box section, huge completed weights for relatively small machines. I do have a good understanding of engineering, but think the machines on here are way, way over spec for my needs. Whilst many on here would baulk at the open builds site, I do feel that that site is better suited to my aspirations and requirements.

I am not going to do a 'yes, but....'

Decision made!

[routerdriver]

I saw the reference to Easel,never used it myself and not very likely to.I do however use Freecad and the associated Path workbench,which has a post processor for LinuxCNC.Which means that the software costs precisely nothing.Perhaps not the most intuitive software around,but if you dig around on youtube there are some useful videos to be seen.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks routerdriver - i have had a good look, however, many of them need quite a bit of knowledge about the entire process and was looking for something that would enable me to create, hit the 'carve' button and off we go!!

[routerdriver]

Thanks routerdriver - i have had a good look, however, many of them need quite a bit of knowledge about the entire process and was looking for something that would enable me to create, hit the 'carve' button and off we go!!

You may be in for a shock then.Any program will require an amount of input to function.They may be located in all sorts of places,but they all need similar information regarding cutter geometry and feed speeds.The most basic letter carving program I have used is F-engrave and you need to supply tool geometry and feed rates.

[routerdriver]

Thanks routerdriver - i have had a good look, however, many of them need quite a bit of knowledge about the entire process and was looking for something that would enable me to create, hit the 'carve' button and off we go!!

You may be in for a shock then.Any program will require an amount of input to function.They may be located in all sorts of places,but they all need similar information regarding cutter geometry and feed speeds.The most basic letter carving program I have used is F-engrave and you need to supply tool geometry and feed rates.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks routerdriver, ironically, you put in your cutter dimensions, intended depth of cut, router type etc and it works out all the feed rate etc. It even shows you if use different sizes of cutters what it will miss out on the final carve because the bit is too big etc

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks routerdriver, ironically, you put in your cutter dimensions, intended depth of cut, router type etc and it works out all the feed rate etc. It even shows you if use different sizes of cutters what it will miss out on the final carve because the bit is too big etc

Do you honestly think it's that easy.? IF you do then you are in cuckoo land.

No software and I mean NO software, not even software costing £10k+ can work out the correct feed rates and spindle speeds as there are far too many variables involved.

The best they can do is offer speeds and feeds based on tool parameters just like a speed and feeds calculator does, these are notoriously way off most of the time because they are based on industrial machines and spindles.
Anyone who has used one will tell you at best they are a guide which you use and tweak based on your own machine's strengths and weaknesses. At worst they are miles off and you'll just snap cutters like carrots if you follow their suggestions.

Speeds n feeds is a whole learning curve in its self and each machine, cutter, and material combination will change the settings. This is why what works for one person often doesn't work for others as there are just too many variables that come into play.

[WoodKnot]

I will let you know how i get on :-)

[dazp1976]

I will let you know how i get on :-)

It'll likely base everything on trying to run flat out and the machine will shatter.

I have a small and a mid sized bench mills.
The small one ate itself even when running at 1/4 of what a program suggested for aluminium, and that was only at a 1mm doc with a 8mm cutter!.
I still haven't even got fully to grips with SFM, DOC, WOC, Feed, Chip load, etc... etc.... Then you have cutter material to take into account. Then there's flute count.... :confusion:

[WoodKnot]

Hi dazp1976 -

It changes the speed and feed rate according to the size of cutter, depth of cut, material being cut.

If the software was that flawed, no one would use it.. Its widely used in the hobby sector

As i have been using an inverted router table for many years, experience of size of cutter and depth of cut and feed rate is reasonably straight forward - but it does in fact calculate these elements. I will of course check the parameters prior to making any cut.

I presume you always use upcut cutters for rapid clearing of bits as oppose to normal routing.

I always buy good quality cutters and blades and even crap machines can be transformed by using good blades and cutters

[JAZZCNC]

Hi dazp1976 -

It changes the speed and feed rate according to the size of cutter, depth of cut, material being cut.

If the software was that flawed, no one would use it.. Its widely used in the hobby sector

As i have been using an inverted router table for many years, experience of size of cutter and depth of cut and feed rate is reasonably straight forward - but it does in fact calculate these elements. I will of course check the parameters prior to making any cut.

I presume you always use upcut cutters for rapid clearing of bits as oppose to normal routing.

I always buy good quality cutters and blades and even crap machines can be transformed by using good blades and cutters

Well, all I can say is get ready to break tools because the best quality tools won't save you from wrong speeds and feeds on a CNC machine.
You really do need to start listening if you want to help yourself because 3 very experienced people now have told you it can't and won't do what you are expecting but yet you don't seem to believe this.!!

If you are not going to listen or believe what's said to you why bother asking.?

[WoodKnot]

Thanks and no offence is intended to everyone.

I apologise for asking questions and from the responses I assumed that no one had actually tried the software?

Maybe I am wrong to assume that a piece of software was actually capable of what it is intended for.

I have to start somewhere, I like the way it quickly creates what you want and that's what I was looking for.

I will wind back the speeds and feed rates and depth of cut per pass until I get to where the machine behaves and cuts like I expect it to.

I do appreciate the comments, but until I start having a go, I will never learn anything.

A problem is not a problem, it's a solution waiting to be discovered

[m_c]

I have tried Easel in the past.
I suspect the big part of it's popularity is down to X-Carve, rather than the software being popular in it's own right.
I'd guess things like Vectric have far larger user bases, as they've been around for far longer. It's just they don't do shiny videos extolling how easy it is to setup a business from your garage :rolleyes:

From what I remember, Easel was pretty limited in how much you could customise things, as it is aimed more towards beginners.
That's not a bad thing, as it helps reduce the learning curve (or totally eliminate it, if you never venture beyond the basics), but for those wanting to improve how parts are machined, it's certainly not a good thing.

The only thing Easel does in regards to speeds/feeds, is makes it a bit easier to adjust speeds/feeds in the software.
Any decent CAM package lets you adjust them, it's just that you need to know how to get the numbers.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks M_C

For me, its when you have a go on the free trials and find what you like as a user of the software -

The problem stems from the fact that the whole 'cnc' aspect is a huge learning curve, is very expensive and fI am trying to learn a lot in a short space of time.

I am a beginner, so maybe it is perfect to get me going - the cheapest way to subscribe is on a 12 monthly basis, so worst case scenario, its just that one off cost,

This is cheap in comparison with some of the others that i have tried.

[m_c]

The thing is, what you might like as a beginner, who is often just thankful they've managed to do 'something' useful, you may quickly come to hate once you learn more and become aware of any limitations.

I'd suggest you try out as many software options as you can.
What you'll often find is where one package may work well for one thing, another will work better for something else. It all depends on your own personal work process, to a certain extent your machine, and what you're trying to machine. Things which you'll not really learn until you've actually ran your machine and machined a few items.
I'd want to produce some physical parts before parting with any money.

Personally, I liked CamBam when I got my first mill, and even though I had experience with CNC lathes, milling CAM was a new learning curve.
Now I mostly use Fusion360, as it keeps everything in the one place.
It all comes down to what functionality you need, what functionality you'd like, and how much money you're willing to spend.