Recommendation for motors and controller with rotating nut

[Ale]

Hello!

It took me a while to get this build close to finish (changed 2 jobs, got 3rd child...) but only major decision left to make is what motors and controller to use. So I would like some help from more experienced members, please...

I purchased 3232 screws for X and Y and went with a rotating ball nut design inspired by Jonathan and others (from this thread
( http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/3340-Rotating-Ballnut-design-ideas ). Z is 1605 screw.

I would like a recommendation for motors and controller.
Initially, I was thinking to go cheap and easy mach3 controller and nema34 motors motor kit from Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193727267081?hash=item2d1b0b8109:g:ArwAAOSwmYhcuAR F

4x 5.6N.m nema34 motors and drivers with power supply and controller for about 500EUR.
Inductance is 4.1 nH.
I have an old Dell pc with a parallel port which I was planning to use for this.I have similar Nema24 kit from ebay installed on my first learning machine and it worked well. Wish I knew about motor inductance then tho :p

My gantry is about 50-60kg and will be belt driven by two motors.
There will be 2:1 reduction (20:40 teeth) and I am aiming for 10m/min rapids, that means that I would require about 600 rpm from motors.
Dimensions of my machine will be 3m x 1.8m, z travel 20cm.
I have bought ATC 3.2kW spindle.
This machine will be for cutting wood and doing 3D relief in wood.

So I guess that those motors would be enough for this purpose? Should I go for Nema24?

I was also considering Lichuan Nema34 3Phase 220V 10N.m LC86H3129+LCDA2260H Closed loop steppper motor & drive from Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174065401431?hash=item28871b3e57:g:vYsAAOSwRmldpWf t.
But is that overkill for rotating nut? They are pricy but were recommended by JAZZ in my other thread (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/14175-Gear-reducing-kit-recommendation)and elsewhere on forum. Also,I guess I wouldn't need such powerful motor for Z (it will be also belt driven 1:1, if not suggested otherwise).

I am open for suggestions.

I was thinking to spend about 1000 EUR for motors, drivers and controller. Not looking for absolute best, just best buy option (bang for buck).

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[JAZZCNC]

I was also considering Lichuan Nema34 3Phase 220V 10N.m LC86H3129+LCDA2260H Closed loop steppper motor & drive from Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174065401431?hash=item28871b3e57:g:vYsAAOSwRmldpWf t.
But is that overkill for rotating nut? They are pricy but were recommended by JAZZ in my other thread (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/14175-Gear-reducing-kit-recommendation)and elsewhere on forum. Also,I guess I wouldn't need such powerful motor for Z (it will be also belt driven 1:1, if not suggested otherwise).

These are the only motors I would fit on this machine, even though you are using rotating ball-nuts, you will need plenty of power to stop that gantry from high speed. Also, large motors like these need high voltage and these drives are mains powered so they spin fast and stop for very little. The slight extra cost will be well worth it believe me.

Regards the Z-axis then you will need a large motor if you are using an ATC spindle, the spindle alone will be close to 20Kg with the tool and holder. you will also need a brake on the Z-axis motor otherwise the spindle will fall under its own weight when motors are powered down.
.
Also, if you plan on using dust extraction then you have to think about the dust hood and accessing tool holders in the tool rack, you need some way to raise the dust hood for tool changes. This is often done using pneumatic cylinders, so between the spindle and all these extra bits, the Z-axis gets heavy quickly so don't underestimate the motor size required.
For simplicity's sake then I would fit the same size motor as the X and Y axis, while they might be slightly overpowered they won't be by much and will be well on top of the job.

Regards the motion controller then the only one I would recommend if using ATC and definitely would be the best bang for your buck is the UC300ETH with UCBB breakout board using UCCNC software. I would stay away from Mach3, it's outdated and unsupported now, UCCNC is far far superior in every way now and cheaper.

[dazp1976]

Hello!

I would like a recommendation for motors and controller.
Initially, I was thinking to go cheap and easy mach3 controller and nema34 motors motor kit from Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193727267081?hash=item2d1b0b8109:g:ArwAAOSwmYhcuAR F

4x 5.6N.m nema34 motors and drivers with power supply and controller for about 500EUR.
Inductance is 4.1 nH.
I have an old Dell pc with a parallel port which I was planning to use for this.I have similar Nema24 kit from ebay installed on my first learning machine and it worked well. Wish I knew about motor inductance then tho :p

So I guess that those motors would be enough for this purpose? Should I go for Nema24?

I was also considering Lichuan Nema34 3Phase 220V 10N.m LC86H3129+LCDA2260H Closed loop steppper motor & drive from Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174065401431?hash=item28871b3e57:g:vYsAAOSwRmldpWf t.
But is that overkill for rotating nut? They are pricy but were recommended by JAZZ in my other thread (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/14175-Gear-reducing-kit-recommendation)and elsewhere on forum. Also,I guess I wouldn't need such powerful motor for Z (it will be also belt driven 1:1, if not suggested otherwise).
I am open for suggestions.


First off. If JAZZ recommends, you're best off following it.

Secondly. If you're happy with the old Dell and Mach3 then go for it. I use the same combo at present on WinXP and it's been fault free.
However: It depends on how many I/O you will need for the servo type drives to use their switch inputs / fault outputs / encoders, etc. I'm switching to UCCNC, UC300eth, UCBB, because of the servo I plan to put on my mill spindle.
There are options of connecting servo drive fault outputs to isolation boards and daisy chaining the outputs from those into a single bob input. Or things like that.

Finally. I have 1080oz nema34 with 4.2mH ind using 60vdc on my mill Z. I had them all round to start with and it was crap. Resonance central. Swapped x,y, for nema24 566oz and kept them at 60v. The nema24 hit 600rpm easy. The Nema34 only just hits 450rpm without issue. Upping it to 80vdc when all my new wiring box is complete.

Your 878oz linked will be poor on 48vdc, better on 60vdc, maybe get nearer where you want on 80+vdc. By the time you swap drivers and up the voltage you may as well have gone straight for the 220v Lichuan anyway.

[Ale]

Thank you both for informative replies.

JAZZ, I didnt even think about all that you mentioned, thank you.

It would cost me about 300EUR per motor (including VAT and shipping), so 1200EUR for 4 of them without break for Z axis and extra cables. Is that price ok?

JAZZ, do they sell directly from the factory or only ebay/aliexpress? Do You have any for sell?

[JAZZCNC]

Thank you both for informative replies.

JAZZ, I didnt even think about all that you mentioned, thank you.

Yes, it's not uncommon if you have never experienced ATC before which is why I mentioned it, these not so obvious extra's are what pushes up the price and complexity of ATC.


It would cost me about 300EUR per motor (including VAT and shipping), so 1200EUR for 4 of them without break for Z axis and extra cables. Is that price ok?

JAZZ, do they sell directly from the factory or only ebay/aliexpress? Do You have any for sell?

They sell direct from the factory via Ali/express, I buy direct from the factory outside of Aliexpress but I'm buying 100's of sets at a time. I do have the standard motors in stock but not any with brakes. However, with you being in Croatia and with us leaving the EU I probably couldn't supply them any cheaper.

If you Contact Annie cheng here [email protected]; and mention Dean from JAZZCNC recommended you to them and ask for a Quote, she may give you some discount from the advertised price. Annie is a very trustworthy and helpful person so you won't go wrong.

[dazp1976]

Damn this is tempting for 3 of these.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173853467774#shpCntId

Do I get a loan and keep it quiet from the Mrs?.

[Doddy]

Do I get a loan and keep it quiet from the Mrs?.

Always.

[Ale]

Damn this is tempting for 3 of these.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173853467774#shpCntId

Do I get a loan and keep it quiet from the Mrs?.

But how do they compare to those steppers Dean recommended?
Because they are cheaper and also use 220V AC...

[JAZZCNC]

But how do they compare to those steppers Dean recommended?
Because they are cheaper and also use 220V AC...

They don't compare really, Servo's and Steppers can't be compared because they work so very differently.
However, as it happens I have those same Servos on my plasma machine and I wouldn't recommend them for a slaved axis machine because they are a nightmare to sync up.

They work nicely and are smooth and powerful enough for their size with 3000rpm but they wouldn't match those 10Nm Lichuan steppers in terms of torque where it matters, which is cutting. Also, they are much much harder to set up compared to the Closed-loop Stepper, which is pretty much plug-n-play.

If you are going to go for Servo's then buy better quality, like Yaskawa, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, or Delta they are more money buy but better supported. The Chinese servos are nice and cheap and quite good in some ways considering the cheap price but not very well supported or intuitive regards setup, so for the experienced builders only who are prepared to spend hours tweaking and tuning them.

The closed-loop stepper system is simple and just gets the job done, no fuss, no drama, the downside is they are a little slower and not quite as smooth as servos. But if you are only chasing 10-15Mtr/Min they work perfectly fine and will do everything the same machine fitted with Servo's would.

So save yourself the headache of using servos is my advice and stick with Closed-loop steppers.

Edit: Actually just noticed these are Lichuan Servo's which are not the same as mine, which came from BST (Fred) but still most of what I wrote above applies the same.

[Ale]

I have took your suggestions and ordered 12Nm Lichuan steppers LC86H3156 from Annie (there were no 10Nm ones).
4 motors with drives, brake, extra cabling and shipping 1200USD. VAT and customs fees not included.I don't know why shipping is so expensive. It costs more than 2 motors, 435USD. Makes me sad...

Also ordered UC300ETH-5LPT + UCBB breakout board + UCCNC. Found deal for 270EUR including VAT and shipping.

Thank you.

[JAZZCNC]

I have took your suggestions and ordered 12Nm Lichuan steppers LC86H3156 from Annie (there were no 10Nm ones).
4 motors with drives, brake, extra cabling and shipping 1200USD. VAT and customs fees not included.I don't know why shipping is so expensive. It costs more than 2 motors, 435USD. Makes me sad...

Also ordered UC300ETH-5LPT + UCBB breakout board + UCCNC. Found deal for 270EUR including VAT and shipping.

Thank you.

You will have a very nice setup with that selection of components. :encouragement:

Shipping is sky-high at the moment and has been since Covid started, We ship by the sea in large Qty's to save money but this has also gone up dramatically compared to before Covid. A Container that used to cost approx $2000 increased to $10,000 within weeks of Covid starting and at its height increased 600%. With lead times going from 8 weeks to 14 weeks and higher. This was then compounded by some idiot crashing a ship into the Panama Canal, the after-effects of which we are still seeing today because ships are not going through the Canal due to massively increased insurance cost's so they are taking the long way around and adding 6-7 more weeks to delivery times.

Hence why there is a shortage of many things in the UK and Europe.

[Ale]

Hello!
Just to post update.
Machine is almost done, it took me a while, almost a year to assemble everything.
Here is a short vid.
Here is vid of first cut.

https://youtu.be/A8vdV0PcW8w

There are still some things left to do (waiting for some parts to finish ATC, then will attach 100mm hose for chip excraction).

Machine is solid and precise, and I am really happy with it.
There is only one slight issue: i do have some wobble on screw when nut is rotating. Is that normal?
I did try to flush nut with rotating sleeve as much as I could, but I still get some, maybe 2mm in middle portion of screw.
Any suggestions about that?

Thanks