AXBB-E to Sunfar E550 VFD Terminal Connections

[JohnnyCimino]

Hi,

I am a CNC enthusiast in Canada and am building my most ambitious project todate: a 1.5M X 3.0M CNC Machine with ATC Water Cooled Spindle.

I have come across a problem and hoping for some guidance through this forum.

I have wired up my CNC Spindle and it operates fine through the VFD panel. I also have wired it up to a potentiometer and again it operates as expected. I am having trouble operating it through the AXBB-E via UCCNC.

I am able to operate all three degrees of movement (X, Y, and Z) via UCCNC and have also tested all limit switches. Only the spindle is yet to be automated

First some references:

1. Controller is a AXBB-E which is running a recent version of UCCNC. The manual is easily available on line.
2, VFD is a Sunfar E550-2S0037L. This unit is rated at 3.7KW. 220 V Single Phase. 24000 RPM at 400Hz. The manual is easily available on line.
3. The Spindle is Jiaken JGL-100/2.5R24. This unit is rated at 2.4 KW and is water cooled with pneumatic auto tool changer.

Some background info:

1. Spindle can be run via the VFD Potentiometer Knob

The following config was used:
- AXBB-E A01 pin connected to VFD AI
- AXBB-E 5V0 connected to VFD GND
- VFD Parameter F0.00 = 3
- VFD Parameter F 0.02 = 1000

2. Spindle can be run via an external Potentiometer.

The following config was used:
- Pot Terminal 1 connected VFD AI (10V)
- Pot Sweeper Terminal 2 connected to VFD A01
- Pot Terminal 3 connected VFD GND
- VFD Parameter F0.00 = 1
- VFD Parameter F 0.02 = 1000

As tests 1 and 2 are successful I know the Spindle operates and the Power wiring is good.


3. I have not been successful in operating the Spindle via UCCNC

- I have attached the VFD config used. This is a subset of all config and hopefully I have captured the ones that are significant. The ones I was not sure of are:

F0.00 should this be 1, 2 or 4?
F0.02 should this be 1000 or 1001?
F1.08 should this be 11 to set X1 terminal to Forward
F1.09 should this be 12 to set X2 terminal to Reverse

- I have attached the VFD to AXBB-X wiring diagram

I need guidance on how to wire the VFD CM terminal. I believe this is the digital ground. On my system 5V0 and 24V0 are interconnected. When I check the VFD there is no continuity between the analogue ground (GND) and the digital ground (CM). In some tests I've tried connecting the CM to 24V0 ground and UCCNC does not like this (it creates a limit switch alarm even though the machine is not close to these switches).

- UCCNC Config for this arrangement.

On Spindle Configuration Screen:

- PWM is active
- Spindle relay output is enabled with M3 (FWD) to AXBB-E O7 and M4 (REV) to AXBB-E 08.

On I/O Setup Screen

- Spindle PWM analog ch: set to 1.

Not sure if I am missing anything on the UCCNC Config end.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John

[JAZZCNC]

I have attached the VFD config used. This is a subset of all config and hopefully I have captured the ones that are significant. The ones I was not sure of are:

F0.00 should this be 1, 2 or 4?
F0.02 should this be 1000 or 1001?
F1.08 should this be 11 to set X1 terminal to Forward
F1.09 should this be 12 to set X2 terminal to Reverse

I use the same VFD's on the ATC spindles we use and sell so below are the settings which work for us.

F0.00 = 1
F0.02 = 1001
F1.04 = 400 (This is the max operating frequency of the spindle when at 10V, the default is 50hz so if you didn't change this when you called for 24,000 rpm the AXBB-E would give 10v but you would only get 3000rpm because to the VFD 10v = 50hz)
F1.08 = 11
F1.09 = 12





I need guidance on how to wire the VFD CM terminal. I believe this is the digital ground. On my system 5V0 and 24V0 are interconnected. When I check the VFD there is no continuity between the analogue ground (GND) and the digital ground (CM). In some tests I've tried connecting the CM to 24V0 ground and UCCNC does not like this (it creates a limit switch alarm even though the machine is not close to these switches).

- UCCNC Config for this arrangement.

On Spindle Configuration Screen:

- PWM is active
- Spindle relay output is enabled with M3 (FWD) to AXBB-E O7 and M4 (REV) to AXBB-E 08.

On I/O Setup Screen

- Spindle PWM analog ch: set to 1.

Well, the Setup is correct regards 0-10V
All you need for 0-10v analog output on AXBB-E is PWM Spindle enabled in Spindle Config, none of the settings in PWM matter, and Spindle PWM ->analog ch=1.

Break this down into 2 parts for testing, so start with speed control first and leave F0.02 = 1000 and start the spindle from the VFD panel but control the speed from UCCNC software.
Connect Axbb-e AO1 to VFD AI and Axbb-e 5v0 to VFD GND

Then look at the Start/stop.
Now I don't use the Axbb-E Outputs directly to the VFD inputs and prefer to control relays using the outputs. This way I can use spare contacts on the relays to do other things like turning water pumps on or external Led's etc.
In this case, we just connect 24V+ to relay coil (V+) and output O2 to the (0v) coil then run VFD CM to the Com contact and X1 to the NO contact.
I only ever use forward rotation so don't bother with reverse because mostly using ER collet holders which are not safe to run in reverse.

I can't really help with the direct to output setup but I also can't see why it wouldn't work because all the output is doing is providing a path to 24v-0v and with 24V-0v connected to CM then all your doing is shorting X1 to CM which should start the VFD.?

Maybe try separating the 24-0 and 5v-0 just in case you are getting feedback.?

[JohnnyCimino]

Thank-you Dean for your quick reply. I will try the two tests and let you know how that goes. I will need to purchase a relay so my response may be delayed by a few days. In the meantime I would be interested in feedback by others as well.

[JohnnyCimino]

I was able to run the two tests as directed by [email protected]. This was the result:

Speed Control through UCCNC

In this test I set F0.02 = 1000, F0.01 = 1 ;
Connected Axbb-e AO1 to VFD AI and Axbb-e 5v0 to VFD GND

I initially started the spindle from the VFD panel by pressing the "run" command and was then able to control the speed from UCCNC software using the "S" commands in the MDI field. This test shows that the PWM signal between the AXBB-E and the VFD is working. It should be noted that the M3 command had no effect in this mode (when toggled between "on" and "off" it did not change the spindle operation).

Spindle On/Off Via a Relay

For this test I used a OMRON LY2NJ relay. This relay does not appear to have polarity for the 24V DC supply to the coil as markings on the coil did not specify "+" or "-". I did try the wiring both ways just in case.

For this test I connect as follows:
- VFD 24V to Relay port 8 (coil power)
- AXBB-E Port O3 to Relay port 7 (coil power)
- VFD CM Port to Relay port 1 (COM)
- VFD X1 Port to Relay port 2 (NO)

I changed F0.02 to 1001 for this test

Port 03 on AXBB-E was configured for M3 (FWD) in UCCNC
Port 04 on AXBB-E was configured for M4 (REV) in UCCNC

Please note that although I am not planning to ever use REV motion on the spindle I configured it so the "two line mode 1" set in VFD Parameter F0.02 command would have the correct number of inputs to make a decision . I did not physically wire Port O4 to X2.

VFD F1.08 was set for 11 (FWD)
VFD F1.09 was set for 12 (REV)

This did not work. For example the spindle did not respond to a M3S1000 command.

When I clicked the M3 button in UCCNC the LED light up on the AXBB-E board. I checked continuity between O3 and 5V0 on the AXBB-E board. With M3 not active, LED was off and there was no continuity. With M3 active , LED was on and there was continuity. It seems that M3 allows a path from O3 to ground which what I expected.

When I checked the voltage across the relay it was always 0 volts. The state of O3 did have any effect on energizing the coil.

Port 03 on the AXBB-E contains a high speed 10Mbit/sec optocouplers and an N-channel Mosfet transitor. Perhaps I am not understanding how this device works.

Any further guidance would be appreciated.

[JAZZCNC]

sounds to me like you have the relay wired wrong or it's faulty. Again break this down into 2 halves.
Also, the OUTPUTS provide a path to 24V rather than 5V so test between 24V-0, not 5v-0.

#1 Test the VFD parameters are correct by touching a wire between CM and X1, if the parameters are correct the VFD will start, make sure there is a speed set in UCCNC first and do an M3 (start spindle) so the VFD see's the 0-10v).
#2 Remove the coil wires and put a meter between and measure the voltage. You should see 24V, if yes then you have a faulty relay or miss wired it. Also, check the relay coil is DC rather than AC which is a common error when buying relays.

The instructions I gave you last night regards the relay on/off and UCCNC setup are not a maybe, I do this on every machine I build so it's well-proven.

[JAZZCNC]

For this test I connect as follows:
- VFD 24V to Relay port 8 (coil power)
- AXBB-E Port O3 to Relay port 7 (coil power)
- VFD CM Port to Relay port 1 (COM)
- VFD X1 Port to Relay port 2 (NO)


Ok looking at your post again then think I see the problem. You are taking the 24+ for the relay coil from the VFD rather than the 24V PSU.

Connect the 24V+ from the PSU which powers the AXBB-E rather than from the VFD.

[JohnnyCimino]

Thank-you [email protected].

I feel like I am making progress but not quite there yet. I appreciate you assistance.

I tested the relay separately with a separate 24V power supply. I am confident that it is working properly and that the wiring is done correctly. I tested the NO contact and it was open with no power on the coil. It successfully closed with power on the coil. I can hear the coil click as the contacts connect and disconnect.

Please note that on my system the power supply that supplies 5V and 24V has a common ground (5V0 and 24V0 are at the same reference). I cannot easily separate them. When I am testing continuity from AXBB-E O3 to AXBB-E 5V0 it would be the same as AXBB-E O3 to 24V0. Maybe I should try to connect VFD CM to AXBB-E 24V0 so we have the same reference across the two boards?

Test #1

This was successful. When i jumpered X1 and CM the Spindle started up.

Test #2

I am not getting 24V between AXBB-E O3 and VFD 24V+ when M3 is activated in UCCNC. The LED lights up on the AXBB-E panel and I can verify continuity between AXBB-E 24V0 and AXBB-E O3 but it doesn't result in 24V potential between 24V+ and O3. So the relay coil never energizes and thus CM and X1 never closes.

Do you have any other ideas?

[JAZZCNC]

See post #6

[JohnnyCimino]

I changed the wiring to the Relay as suggested. Everything now works. The spindle spins clockwise when I put in a M3 command in UCCNC. When I put in a M4 command it spins clockwise as well which is not a problem as I do not want to run the spindle in REV (please note that I did not wire to the X2 terminal on the VFD for REV spin).

I think this is a great way to start/ stop the Spindle as the relay I used gives me another set of terminals to perform another function. In my case I would like to disable the "release" of the ATC whenever M3 is active. This is to stop me from inadvertently releasing the collet when the spindle is spinning (which would not end well).

What I am finding is that with my Relay wired per guidance the NO / NC terminals are not operating as expected when the coil is wired but there is no M3 call.

These are the three tests:

#1 No Power to the Relay COM-NO --> No Continuity COM-NC --> Continuity
#2 Power to the Relay No M3 Call COM-NO --> Continuity COM-NC --> No Continuity
#3 Power to the Relay M3 Call COM-NO --> Continuity COM-NC --> No Continuity

Test #1 and #3 are as expected. I was expecting Test #2 to be same as Test #1. Strange thing is that the Spindle still operates as expected (it starts when M3 is active and stops when M3 is inactive) but It is causing me issues in using the Relay second set of poles to lock out the ATC release.

Am I doing something wrong?

Once again - here is the wiring:

Relay 24V+ to PSU 24V+
Relay 24V- to AXBB-E O3 (which is configured for M3 - FWD in UCCNC)
Relay COM to VFD CM
Relay NO to VFD X1 (which is configured for FWD in the the VFD - P1.08 = 11)

John

[JAZZCNC]

Can you link to the relay you are using.?

[JohnnyCimino]

It is a OMRON LY2NJ. The Spec sheet is easy to find on the Web.

[JohnnyCimino]

30452

This is the wiring set up.

[JAZZCNC]

It is a OMRON LY2NJ. The Spec sheet is easy to find on the Web.

Ok, this is the same relay we sell and use so I know it well.

Now tell me the pin numbers you are using for the Com and the NO and NC contacts for each set of contacts.?

Edit: forget that I've just seen your post

[JAZZCNC]

So testing the spindle with NO POWER you should get continuity between #6 - # 2 and #5 - #1. with NO continuity between #6 - #4 and #5 -#3.
Then with power applied you should get continuity between #6 - #4 and #5 -#3 with NO continuity between #6 - #2 and #5 - #1.

If you get anything else then you have a faulty relay.

Also, you don't need to use the second set of NC contacts for the ATC release, you can just use the NC of the first set of contacts because it will change over when the relay turns on. HOWEVER, if you are using this to actually release the tool rather than just forming an inhibit to the solonoid it's a very bad idea because every time the spindle stops it will drop the tool.?? . . . Surely this is not what you meant.!

[JohnnyCimino]

Thank-you [email protected] for you continued support.

Let me explain some more of my issue.

I tested 3 states on the relay.

State #1: All wires disconnected from the Relay (NO POWER) and got the results noted in Test #1. All was as expected and consistent with your guidance.

State #2 All wires connected to the Relay, AXBB-E, VFD and PSU energized, but no M3 call from UCCNC. This is the one that gave me the unexpected results in Test #2. I expected State #1 and State #2 performance of the relay to be the same. The relay should only be energized when there is a M3 call.

State#3 All wires connected to the Relay, AXBB-E, VFD and PSU energized, plus M3 call from UCCNC. This gave me the results noted in Test #3. Again this was as expected and consistent with your guidance.

My ATC has 3 pneumatic valves which operate as follows (the manual is unclear so I've deduced this operation with much testing):

MODE #1 LOCK: This mode is activated while the momentary push button is in normal position (i.e. not pushed). This mode injects air to keep the Spindle locked. I connect the solenoid as NC (on loss of DC power this valve will continue to keep the spindle locked). This is why when the CNC is powered off the collet does not drop from the machine. Even if I disconnect air pressure the collet will not drop from the machine because you need to activate the REL mode to disengage the clamp spring. The clamp spring alone will prevent the collet from dropping.

MODE #2 REL and DUST: This mode is activated while the momentary push button is momentarily pushed in. This mode will cut DC Power to the Lock solenoid and is the first step to unlocking the Spindle. Subsequently air is injected in the spindle that disengage the spring clamp plus pushes the holder out of the spindle. At the same time there is another air feed that clears any dust from the spindle. The REL and DUST valves operate together in a NO fashion. On loss of DC Power they are not active.

Now I don't want MODE #2 activated by accident while the Spindle is spinning (M3 command) so I connected to the second set of poles on the relay as noted in the updated wiring diagram. I am using the second set of poles to open and close the 24V circuit to the solenoid valve. I want the 24V circuit to the REL and DUST solenoids open when there is a M3 call so that pushing the momentary switch will have no effect.

Here is the confusing part. The spindle "on" - "off" through UCCNC works. My original request for assistance is resolved.


The second set of poles is not working. The ATC works properly if the solenoid valves are wired to bypass the relay. When I wire as noted REL and DUST valves continue to operate regardless whether there is a M3 call or not. To test the M3 used MDI command M3S0 (activate the spindle but run the spindle at 0 RPM). Maybe this is not appropriate?

John30462

[JAZZCNC]

Well, I can't help much more now regards the relay without being there, relays are simple things and are either on or off and by nature of the beast either in a NO or NC state dependant if powered or not. If you have both contacts in the same state then I would say it's faulty.!

Regards the ATC then you would usually use a 5way valve for the open/close (Lock in Chinglish) so would only require one NO contact which you would turn on to open the drawbar.

For the REL (Taper clean) you would use a separate two-way valve with another set of contacts, this could be on a separate relay or on the same relay as the drawbar. Personally, I use a separate relay so I can control the Airblast independently from the drawbar. This allows me to only turn the air on when required so saving Air and power.

The Dust usually relates to the Air seal which protects the bearings while the spindle is running. Again this is operated with a 2-way valve but using separate NO contacts on the Spindle on/off relay.

But without seeing your ATC spindle manual then it may be different from how I describe above.?

[JohnnyCimino]

Just a quick note to let anyone following this thread know that I was able to resolve this issue by simply changing to another output pin. I was using output pin 3 and it was not working. When I moved to output pin 2 the system works as expected. Not sure if I damaged output pin 3 or if it was an out of box defect. Sending a M3 command to pin 2 will now energize the relay. When I was connected to pin 3 the relay was energized regardless of whether there was an M3 call or not.

One final question for [email protected]: Do you usually install diode protection when you use the OMRON LY2NJ relay? From the diagram on the plastic case it appears to have an internal diode but I'm wondering if the lack of diode is what damaged pin 3. If the answer is yes can you please advise how to wire it? Output pins 2 is optically isolated but I'm not sure if that provide protection from voltage surges.

[JAZZCNC]

One final question for [email protected]: Do you usually install diode protection when you use the OMRON LY2NJ relay? From the diagram on the plastic case it appears to have an internal diode but I'm wondering if the lack of diode is what damaged pin 3. If the answer is yes can you please advise how to wire it? Output pins 2 is optically isolated but I'm not sure if that provide protection from voltage surges.

No never needed to fit a diode and never blown an output on the AXBB-E under normal conditions, I have fit around 30 AXBB-E in the last 3 months with each controlling 4 Omron LY2NJ relays so I'm confident this won't be why you have a faulty output.