Sprint 400 driver board

[jolyonjenkins]

Hello

Can someone help me with the wiring of a Sprint 400 driver board. The manual is here

https://www.sprint-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/HG105270EN00-issue-1-400_800_1200-web.pdf

I want to connect it to the spindle on my Denford Micromill. The datasheet gives 4 outputs, two as "armature" and two as "field". I have to admit that I don't really know what these mean or how to identify the four on the spindle. However, when I apply mains power to the board, there is 0V on the "armature" pair, and 200V DC on the "field" pair. If I connect the 10V reference on pin 1 to the input on pin 3, nothing changes. What I need is for the DC output to go from 0 to 90V (the spindle maximum). Would appreciate some guidance

[dazp1976]

Hello

Can someone help me with the wiring of a Sprint 400 driver board. The manual is here

https://www.sprint-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/HG105270EN00-issue-1-400_800_1200-web.pdf

I want to connect it to the spindle on my Denford Micromill. The datasheet gives 4 outputs, two as "armature" and two as "field". I have to admit that I don't really know what these mean or how to identify the four on the spindle. However, when I apply mains power to the board, there is 0V on the "armature" pair, and 200V DC on the "field" pair. If I connect the 10V reference on pin 1 to the input on pin 3, nothing changes. What I need is for the DC output to go from 0 to 90V (the spindle maximum). Would appreciate some guidance

Something sounds amiss. Did you blow yours up or was the drive not supplied in the first place???.


I can't see it happoening myself. The 0-90v units look like they run off 115vac input. (u.s. ver input)
On 230vac input they give you 0-180v (looks like this is what you are finding). (u.k. ver input)

PLEASE NOTE:
There is only one board that puts out 0-90v on a 230vac input and that is the:
KBIC-240DS
This is extremely likely the one you need.
https://www.axiscontrols.co.uk/products-services/products/dc-variable-speed-drives/kb-electronics-dc/kbic-range/kbic-240ds-dc-motor-speed-controller

Who put you onto the sprint???.
The sprint is for the 180v motor types that exist, or the u.s. 90v types.

The official boards are these by the looks of it:
https://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbic_oem.pdf
http://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbic.pdf
https://www.axiscontrols.co.uk/products-services/products/dc-variable-speed-drives/kb-electronics-dc/kbic-range/kbic-240ds-dc-motor-speed-controller


(sounds like the motor would be the u.s. standard one and they threw a quick fix board in for u.k voltages if you weren't given the control).

There's 3 options here.
1. you find a 180v motor for it.
2. have to resort to the buying the KB control board.
3. get 115Vac input to the sprint 400.

[jolyonjenkins]

Something sounds amiss. Did you blow yours up or was the drive not supplied in the first place???.


I can't see it happoening myself. The 0-90v units look like they run off 115vac input. (u.s. ver)
On 230vac input they give you 0-180v (looks like this is what you are finding). (u.k. ver)

The official boards are these by the looks of it:
https://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbic_oem.pdf
http://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbic.pdf
https://www.axiscontrols.co.uk/products-services/products/dc-variable-speed-drives/kb-electronics-dc/kbic-range/kbic-240ds-dc-motor-speed-controller

PLEASE NOTE:
There is only one board that puts out 0-90v on a 230vac input and that is the:
KBIC-240DS
This is extremely likely the one you need.

(Initially the motor would be the u.s. standard one and they threw a quick fix board in for u.k voltages). Because it was cheaper!.

There's 3 options here.
1. you find a 180v motor for it.
2. have to resort to the buying the KB control board.
3. get 115Vac input to the sprint 400.

I might have blown mine up. There was a cascade of errors which led to me basically replacing a lot of the electronics.
I got a second hand board from ebay. It looks identical to the original board, and identical to the ones that I've seen in photos of other Denford micromills. The sprint board has a jumper which lets you set the input voltage to 230V (or 110V) so I'm not sure why you think I need the KB driver.

[dazp1976]

I might have blown mine up. There was a cascade of errors which led to me basically replacing a lot of the electronics.
I got a second hand board from ebay. It looks identical to the original board, and identical to the ones that I've seen in photos of other Denford micromills. The sprint board has a jumper which lets you set the input voltage to 230V (or 110V) so I'm not sure why you think I need the KB driver.

Your pdf has a typo. This is the proper one:
https://www.transdrive.co.uk/media/1157/sprint-electric-400-800-1200-manual.pdf
The sprint 400 is: 110/240 = 90/180
So: 110v = 90v and 240 = 180v

The switch is just an input voltage selector like on a meanwell power supply.
However. Unlike a meanwell, a speed control is relative to it's input.
So if it gets 240v it'll put out 100%. If it gets 110v it'll only put out 50%.
Ergo 180/90.

Unless you have the actual 180v version motor for it I'm afraid you likely need the KB.
(basically a bodged voltage board worked out cheaper to get u.k. sales)

Yours may look the same to others but they'll likely have the 180v motor too.
Like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393622606533



I may have updated previous post too while you responded.

[jolyonjenkins]

Your pdf has a typo. This is the proper one:
https://www.transdrive.co.uk/media/1157/sprint-electric-400-800-1200-manual.pdf
The sprint 400 is: 110/240 = 90/180
So: 110v = 90v and 240 = 180v

The switch is just an input voltage selector like on a meanwell power supply.
However. Unlike a meanwell, a speed control is relative to it's input.
So if it gets 240v it'll put out 100%. If it gets 110v it'll only put out 50%.
Ergo 180/90.

Unless you have the actual 180v version motor for it I'm afraid you likely need the KB.
(basically a bodged voltage board worked out cheaper to get u.k. sales)

Yours may look the same to others but they'll likely have the 180v motor too.
Like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393622606533



I may have updated previous post too while you responded.

Ah, this might explain why I can only get 100V out of it. Hmm. There do seem to be fairly cheap PWM DC-DC controllers on Ebay which I could maybe bolt on

[dazp1976]

Ah, this might explain why I can only get 100V out of it. Hmm. There do seem to be fairly cheap PWM DC-DC controllers on Ebay which I could maybe bolt on

Did you have it running before?.
Did you plug it in and pretty much blow the lot by any chance?.

Everything I look into so far is showing me schematics with 110v input.

This suggests to me that there should be a 220v-110v transformer in there for use with u.k. supply.

[dazp1976]

Did you have it running before?.
Did you plug it in and pretty much blow the lot by any chance?.
Everything I look into so far is showing me schematics with 110v input.
This suggests to me that there should be a 220v-110v transformer in there for use with u.k. supply.

Okay so. From what I said previously.

On this Denford data page in the 4th post down:
https://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2929
The schematic shows the 'power transformer' which converts u.k. 240vac into 110vac for the machine.

Micromill-electrical-feb-2000.pdf
https://www.denfordata.com/bb/download/file.php?id=2796
Micromill-denstep-electrical-June2000.pdf
https://www.denfordata.com/bb/download/file.php?id=2795

Look for this in your machine. Could be the overall culprit.

[jolyonjenkins]

I had it running before. The guy who had the machine before me had converted it to run on Mach 3 rather than the proprietory Denford software. I ran it on LinuxCNC and never bothered trying to get variable speed working so I don't know whether the spindle maybe always getting a constant 100V. The smoke came about when I idiotically tried to fix a disconnected wire to one of the steppers while the power was on. This blew up one of the transistors on the Baldor stepper driver board. Every time I tried to replace something or troubleshoot it with the 'scope I blew up more of the Baldor board though clumsiness, so I ended up stripping out all the original electronics and putting in new stepper drivers. In the process I disconnected the spindle and the connections between the Sprint board and the Baldor board, and when I came to try to reconnect the Sprint board (some months ago) I couldn't quite work out how to do it and I thought maybe the Sprint board was dead so I got a new (second hand) one.

In the mean time I replaced the spindle with a low powered one which has its own PWM driver, but I would like to get the original one working again

[jolyonjenkins]

Ah our posts overlapped. There is indeed such a transformer. Yes I should probably be powering the board from that.

[dazp1976]

Ah our posts overlapped. There is indeed such a transformer. Yes I should probably be powering the board from that.

Yes.
There should be 100v output on the trandformer for the sprint. (hopefully, from the drawings). May even still be connected?.
Now you have all the schematics hopefully you can figure out the driver board for 0-10v control. All below:

Sprint:
https://www.transdrive.co.uk/media/1157/sprint-electric-400-800-1200-manual.pdf
Micromill/Novamill:
https://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2929
https://www.denfordata.com/bb/download/file.php?id=2796
https://www.denfordata.com/bb/download/file.php?id=2795



Be careful. There's bits in there from both the Micromill and the Novamill.


Took me most of the bastard morning to research this machine.
All the info is basically buried.

[jolyonjenkins]

Thanks for devoting your morning to this!

I'm still stuck.

Giving the Sprint Board 100V AC and switched the jumper to 110V
On the F- and F+ pins I get 90V DC
On the A- and A+ I get about 3V
The reference voltage of 10V is there on pin 1
But putting this 10V on the input pin (pin 3) makes no difference to either output
I have the Run pin 5 connected to COM

[dazp1976]

Thanks for devoting your morning to this!

I'm still stuck.

Giving the Sprint Board 100V AC and switched the jumper to 110V
On the F- and F+ pins I get 90V DC
On the A- and A+ I get about 3V
The reference voltage of 10V is there on pin 1
But putting this 10V on the input pin (pin 3) makes no difference to either output
I have the Run pin 5 connected to COM

This is how it looks to me.
The circuit on pins 1,2,3 are basically a diagram of a 10k 3pin manual potentiometer.
P1= 10v into pot (to power pot)
P2= 0v from pot (vmin)
P3= the pot wiper (0-10v variation)

This tells me that if you have control board with it's own 0-10v & GND outputs for spindle control.... You would omit the 10v pin1 and put the GND on pin 2 and the 0-10v on pin3.

Next is P4 & P5. This looks to be to switch it on. Power comes from P5 logic, through switch, back to P4.
You need spindle on/off relay or switch here. If you just bridge it alone to get it active it may just throw up an overload error. (bit like on my sieg X2).


Now bear in mind I have only looked at this very briefly and have no guarantee.

[jolyonjenkins]

Yes so that's pretty much what I've got except that I assumed that if I connected P1 direct to P3, I would get the maximum output voltage. However P3 doesn't seem to respond to different voltages
I take your point that powering it up with P5 and P4 connected may cause a problem.
I'm puzzled why I get the 90V on the "field" pins and not the "armature" pins, but that's because I don't really understand how motors work. As far as I can tell, the motor only has an armature winding.
However, I cannot do any more on this for next week. Thanks for your help so far

[dazp1976]

I'm puzzled why I get the 90V on the "field" pins and not the "armature" pins, but that's because I don't really understand how motors work. As far as I can tell, the motor only has an armature winding.


I don't think it works without being switched on via 4&5.
Regarding the motor. Look around at information about...
'Armature controlled dc motor'... For both 2 and 4 wire / pole.
Field is the stator and armature is the main rotor.

What about the original motor?. Is that 2 or 4 wire?.

I'll do some reading as well and see if I come up with anything else.
I looked at sherline regarding a replacement motor but due to micromill being originally built as a manual pot... They supply it with a pre-wired little box that has a pot control on it. Not very useful really.


I'm in process of changing into using a proper AC servo on my medium sized mill atm.
I'd have likely got fed up with the Denford by now and considered swapping the motor out to a servo system for it.

[m_c]

If your motor only has two wires, then it's a permanent magnet motor, so you can just ignore the field supply, as it's only for if you have a wound field motor, which needs a continuous supply to create the stationary magnetic fields.

Bridging the Run/Com, with a jumper between I/P and +10V should then get the motor spinning.

One thing not clear from all the posts, is do you have a motor connected?


And just in case you're not aware, unless you have an isolated drive, all the logic terminals float around 50% of the input voltage. At 110VAC it's not too much of an issue for yourself, but it'll kill any non-isolated electronics you connect to them.