SIEG iKC4 Lathe - ATC issues and refit

[PeterE]

Hi,

I have been running an SIEG iKC4 lathe which was an ex-demo from Axminster but several months ago the ATC stop rotating and the machine hangs.

Several months of discussion with SIEG over email has concluded the KT510 CNC controller has an issue but they have advised that this is $1100 to replace (plus VAT, import duty and shipping.)

I cannot spend this type of money at the moment but really want to get the machine back up and running!

I was considering trying to source a used KT510 or replace the ATC controller with a new motion controller. (I can pause code and change offsets in the SIEG software still.)

The Yako stepper motor driver all works fine but I was not sure about the best route for a controller board, break out and motion controller software to just rotate the ATC. (I do not have access to an old parallel port PC so Mach 3 is not an option.)

Any advice on where I should start?

[JohnHaine]

You can use M3 with a usb motion controller such as the uc100 under win10.

[PeterE]

You can use M3 with a usb motion controller such as the uc100 under win10.

Thanks John, I will take a look at the UC100 coupled with Mach3.

[JohnHaine]

I have two, running my lathe and mill. But how many stepper motors do you need to run? The UC100 is limited to 4 I think.

[needleworks]

I have a denford orac which runs off a UC100, everything runs fine (well as fine as Mach3 will allow) in fact I would say it runs a lot smoother since I moved to the UC100

[Neale]

I suspect that with an ATC in the picture, the UC100 might not have enough I/O ports which would suggest looking at the UC300 or UC400. And if you are doing that, then I would certainly go Ethernet rather than USB. Ethernet ports are a lot more common these days than parallel ports - and a whole lot better !

[Doddy]

Having banged my head against another forum member's ATC (Matron!) for a goodly while, I'd suggest that you'll want to research exactly the control/state-machine/timing required by the ATC and have a considered plan for how you want to go about this. Particularly, if the control system for the ATC is provided by the KT510 (probable), replacing with a generic motion controller is unlikely to offer an out-the-box solution.

Having said that - I know nothing of the ATC on that Lathe.

[m_c]

Before I make any suggestions, I'd like to see some photos of the lathe in question, and any information on the turret.

Personally, I'd say it's more likely to be some kind of electrical failure (what actually rotates the turret?), rather than the controller. It would be good to know what checks have been done to establish that it's a controller issue.

[PeterE]

Before I make any suggestions, I'd like to see some photos of the lathe in question, and any information on the turret.

Personally, I'd say it's more likely to be some kind of electrical failure (what actually rotates the turret?), rather than the controller. It would be good to know what checks have been done to establish that it's a controller issue.

I'll send some photos in my next reply as I am away from it at the moment.

I worked through the issue with SIEG and checked that there were no conflicts with other applications occupying UDP ports as as firewall issues between the PC and the lathe. (PC and Lathe are connected over a Ethernet connection.)

As directed by SIEG:
Checked the voltage from the switching PSU used by the ATC
Increased the current from the Stepper-Motor Driver (number turns suggested by SIEG)
Then replaced the switch PSU used by the ATC and verified the voltage was in the correct range

I spoke to another engineer in the UK that has some experience with the iKC4 and he suggested updating the firmware version as this has resolved these issues in the past. Unfortunately this did not work. He then suggested a visual inspection of the motion controller board to see if there were any obviously blown ICs. There are none.

I will reply with some details regards stepper motor drivers, etc. shortly.

[PeterE]

Having banged my head against another forum member's ATC (Matron!) for a goodly while, I'd suggest that you'll want to research exactly the control/state-machine/timing required by the ATC and have a considered plan for how you want to go about this. Particularly, if the control system for the ATC is provided by the KT510 (probable), replacing with a generic motion controller is unlikely to offer an out-the-box solution.

Having said that - I know nothing of the ATC on that Lathe.

Hi Doddy, yes I appreciate it will not offer an OTTB solution as well as giving me issues as I would have to pause code on one controller while I rotate the tool with a Mach3 solution. I really do not want to go down this route but SIEG have suggested a new KT510 will be $1100 plus VAT, duty and shipping which is money I cannot spend at the moment.

Yes, the KT510 is control system and I would have to resolve timings, etc. Again, not a route I want to go down but may not have a choice if I want a working lathe.

[PeterE]

Here is a picture of the lathe:

31141

Its an 8 position ATC driven by a Yako YKA2404MA stepper motor driver.

https://www.yakotec.com/index.php/proview-21-15.html

ATC Schematic:

31142

[Muzzer]

If you remove the stepper motor from the ATC, does it spin unloaded? I'm asking because Sieg seemed to be suggesting you should play with the driver settings. Didn't work but can you get ANY life out of the motor when it is free to spin? Failing that, would it be worth spending a few quid on a generic Chinesium stepper driver to see if the Yako thing really is the problem? Changing out the CNC controller itself is a big move, so you'd want to be 100% certain the driver and motor are OK first.

[PeterE]

If you remove the stepper motor from the ATC, does it spin unloaded? I'm asking because Sieg seemed to be suggesting you should play with the driver settings. Didn't work but can you get ANY life out of the motor when it is free to spin? Failing that, would it be worth spending a few quid on a generic Chinesium stepper driver to see if the Yako thing really is the problem? Changing out the CNC controller itself is a big move, so you'd want to be 100% certain the driver and motor are OK first.

Hi Muzzer,

You make a good point and I started thinking back through after my last post this afternoon whether I really had ruled out other issues before going with SIEGs suggestion of replacing the motion controller and considered trying another stepper motor driver.

I will do some more investigating as you say (and I had done some more tests this afternoon too. e.g. I ran several hundred lines of code with tool changes removed to see if the motion controller threw any problems and all was fine.)

First I will remove the stepper motor and try spinning it unloaded and work back from there. Updates to follow.

[JohnHaine]

If there is only one stepper in the ATC then you might just switch to using a UC100 and Mach3/4

[m_c]

I'd also go with Muzzers suggestion first.

The chances of the controller physically failing are pretty slim, but given it's a pretty unknown controller, it's hard to make suggestions.

[PeterE]

Quick update:
I took the ATC cover off ready to remove the stepper so I can try it unloaded and there are no mechanical issues as I can rotate the ATC by hand by rotating the shaft with the machine/steppers powered off.

[PeterE]

If there is only one stepper in the ATC then you might just switch to using a UC100 and Mach3/4

Thanks John. I'll see if the issue is down to the stepper motor or stepper motor driver and if not will head down this route.

I'm hoping it is one of these though because swapping out the offending component would cause a lot less headaches than a new ATC controller.

[m_c]

So things seem to be mechanically OK.

Next easy test, can you rotate the stepper motor with the lathe powered up?
This will tell us if the stepper driver is doing anything.

[PeterE]

So things seem to be mechanically OK.

Next easy test, can you rotate the stepper motor with the lathe powered up?
This will tell us if the stepper driver is doing anything.

The stepper motor driver and stepper motor are definitely doing something as they can partially rotate the tool but stop after about 30 degrees at which point the lathe hangs and disconnects from the PC running the turning software.

When I get some time this weekend I was going to remove the stepper motor from the ATC to see if it can complete full rotations without load.

[m_c]

That does sound far more like a controller issue.

Do you have any kind of manual for the controller?
How do you home the Turret?

[PeterE]

Update:
I removed the stepper motor and tried moving it unloaded - same problem
SIEG gave me some further tests to put the software in debug mode and disconnecting the motor from the driver - same problem in that the software hangs at the same point

Therefore it looks like a controller fault.

Regards a simple motion controller for rotating an ATC only which might be the best route:
Mach3 demo (since limited code would be required) with a Mach3 card like:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motion-Control-Interface-Breakout-Stepper/dp/B076VFT59G/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=9946HAE3Y6L7&keywords=usb+Cnc+motion+controller&qid=1659010699&sprefix=usb+cnc+motion+controller%2Caps%2C59&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&smid=A5QX2SUPA7LK7&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMDEwTDE4TjZVRVlVJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjg4MjU2MjA4NktHVElJMjYyRCZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTAxMzU5MVRTNkwzREdUOFY0TSZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

or an Arduino controller with some development

[Doddy]

.

[m_c]

To me it sounds like the controller is hanging waiting for something to happen (and pretty rubbish programming, in that it locks up rather than timing out).

Are there any sensors on the turret?
And is there anything connected to the Origin terminals on the driver?