Art Work I’ve produced so far (Constructive Criticism encouraged)

[Fivetide]

Hi guys after some long hours and many failed experiments I have decided to showcase some of my creations on a web site gallery. I hope you like them and I would like any constructive criticism you may feel like offering.


Everything is made from my own designs expect the small Greenman you see in the frames I just used that to highlight the frame and won’t be making anymore as I don’t have commercial rights to do so.


I have used various materials from American Walnut to tiger oak and resins to swath and can pulls in my projects.

Please be patient as it’s a freebee server and takes a while to load. :grumpy:

This is the website FreckArts.com (http://www.freckart.com/)

[GEOFFREY]

Fivetide, that's an impressive gallery. Thanks for showing. It actually loaded immediately, no delay whatsoever. Must ask as I haven't a clue, but what does swath and can pull mean? I'm sure I wont be the only one that doesn't know. G.

[Fivetide]

Think its spell check lol Swarf as in metal shavings and Can-Pulls as in off the the top of beer cans. Thanks for the comment Geoff

[GEOFFREY]

Thanks Fivetide, now we all know!!! I would never have known, I guess it must be the sheltered life I lead. G.

[Lee Roberts]

I'd like to order a "Sitting Man 2 (http://www.freckart.com/?p=18)" please ?

.Me

[Fivetide]

I'd like to order a "Sitting Man 2 (http://www.freckart.com/?p=18)" please ?

.Me

Hi Lee, this is the next problem I have, how much do I sell them for, all in all theres over a days work for one piece although noe I have done the artwork I can reproduce them more quickly, in your hosnest opion and I would only proably make 10 of them how much would you pay for one.. I know its a hard thing to judge?

[WandrinAndy]

That's great stuff you've made there FiveTide!

Must say I particularly like the Kneeling Girls, they remind me of something similar I did with copper sheet back in high school days......

There's something rather pleasing about the female form.... though I haven't worked out what exactly it is yet ;-)

[Ricardoco]

There's something rather pleasing about the female form.... though I haven't worked out what exactly it is yet ;-) Oh that's easy.. they lack nuts...Rick

[Ricardoco]

Hi guys after some long hours and many failed experiments I have decided to showcase some of my creations on a web site gallery. I hope you like them and I would like any constructive criticism you may feel like offering.


Everything is made from my own designs expect the small Greenman you see in the frames I just used that to highlight the frame and won’t be making anymore as I don’t have commercial rights to do so.


I have used various materials from American Walnut to tiger oak and resins to swath and can pulls in my projects.

Please be patient as it’s a freebee server and takes a while to load. :grumpy:

This is the website FreckArts.com (http://www.freckart.com/) They are really nice, can you give us a bit of insight as to how you designed and produced them please.. Rick

[Lee Roberts]

Hi Lee, this is the next problem I have, how much do I sell them for, all in all theres over a days work for one piece although noe I have done the artwork I can reproduce them more quickly, in your hosnest opion and I would only proably make 10 of them how much would you pay for one.. I know its a hard thing to judge?

Humm,

It depends what you want for them, are you going to sell them in art galleries full time as much as you can with the plan to make only 10 of each then move onto something else, in turn making them possibly rare or sort after? People pay allot of money for Art dont they...

As we know art is in the eye of the beholder, because of recent events in my life and events that are waiting to happen, i can relate to the expression "Sitting Man 2" is giving off, this is of course from my own interpretation of the piece. I can also appreciate it for just the art that it is, regardless of the meaning i can find with in it.

I lost my mother-in-law less then 12 months ago and i'm coming to terms with the fact that my grandfather is now taking his last breaths and its just a matter of weeks rather than months, i'm VERY close to my grandfather and was close to the mother-in-law, for me "Sitting Man 2" portrays the devastation and pain i'm going through at times at the momment.

While i say the above, i'd also like to own art created by "one of the guys i know on the forum", it would be nice to hang it and have people ask if i made it and tell them "no a guy i know made it, isn't it nice, there was only ever 10 of them made".

I wouldn't want to insult what the piece means to you Five by offering you a price. Try to work out what you would be happy to let one go for, as i would like to own one.

.Me

[kingcreaky]

That's great stuff you've made there FiveTide!

Must say I particularly like the Kneeling Girls, they remind me of something similar I did with copper sheet back in high school days......



reminds me of somthing I did in schooldays aswell :hysterical:


excellant work david. If I hadnt spent all my money on a cnc machine id definately buy
Fame (http://www.freckart.com/?p=37)easily my favourite.

Dont want to offend either by putting a value on it.

keep us posted with these creations... would be good to see more work from other members aswell.

[martin54]

David, putting a price on something like this is always going to be difficult, it is with any sort of art but you could start by pricing them as a normally manufactured item & if your happy with what that works out to then sell them at that & if your not because it is artistic then add a bit more on.
You might have to bump your labor rate up a bit though as your working from home & won't have a lot of the usual stuff required to work out a labor rate.
As for the design & toolpath creation side of things if you intend to stick with 10 of each piece then just divide the time it took by 10 to give you a price for this part of the process that you can add to the other costs.

[D.C.]

You could always check to see what similar work sells for on craft sites and similar places

wood on Etsy, a global handmade and vintage marketplace. (http://www.etsy.com/search?q=wood) carving&view_type=gallery

Folksy - Search results (http://folksy.com/search?t=items&q=wood+carving&commit=Search)

A list of some other similar UK sites:
UK Sites Like Etsy (http://earner.hubpages.com/hub/sites-like-etsy)

As for honest artistic feedback, Greenman is always good, the sitting men, standing man, theo and girl 2 are really good, girl kneeling one looks like she has a huge blister on her arm which is a bit freaky and I have no idea what is going on with the blue paint on top of your knots, is it a symbol with meaning that I'm not aware of?

[Fivetide]

Thanks DC those are very helpfull and thanks for all others feedback I have 4 more to add I'll post here first .. just whittleing away lol

[martin54]

One thing to remember when working out what to charge is where you intend to sell & how, reason I say that is because some people selling on the internet will work on volume alone & if your only going to produce a limited run of each item you don't want to be selling at the same price as the guy that is mass producing something.
Have seen some of the prices people charge on the auction sites & they must be working for nothing or next to nothing, sure some of them don't think about a lot of the costs involved & look purely at material cost.

[Fivetide]

Hi Martin looks like you're another one of those late-night workers. That's me all over, I tend to keep some stupid hours. Anyway yes you make a very good point there, and it just so happened that on Friday I was going through a handover former mates company as he's going on holiday well actually years now in South Africa and I'm looking after his callouts related to IT. Anyway I met a guy at one of the companies he looks after who specialises in marketing on the Internet and we were discussing this exact same problem. One of the problems with art is that it tends to be I'm searching for the word but is a personal thing whether it's disliked or liked. Oh yes subjective. So market response to showing people your work often lets you know the types of people that like it, and those that don't really give you much feedback because it's not their kind of art. So for instance , the girl next door she is in her early 30s and thought that the figure carving was brilliant whereas her husband was indifferent, so I'm starting to realise my audience. Getting back to the marketing guy he did have some quite interesting things to say such as if you sell a piece on eBay for say £50 then you'll be lucky if your sell any piece again over that cost because there is ability in eBay to trace back what people are selling products for. And as you said mass production is a different ball game compared to what I do. So we spent a coffee talking about similar types of products that his company worked with. One of the suggestions is like a lot of artists to sell limited amounts of prints copies of your work. In my case I have the opportunity to sell castings of my carvings and I can limit them to a certain number. Although none of this is set in stone, there's a chance that you can make money out of the original and therefore make the original worth more. There's also product placement, an example of which he was saying someone had sent some baby clothes to the Princess of Wales which she was photographed looking at and admiring them, there was a big search to find out who had produced them and it turned out to be some old woman who had handmade them. But if it had been an up-and-coming small business they would probably have been swamped by orders. Also entering art into competitions and hopefully getting positive criticism through the competitions can help. There was an artist who was unknown who had entered the Turner prize and was in a small section of the BBC's culture show, those that didn't quite make it. But to not quite make it is a massive achievement when it comes to something like the Turner prize and can be seen as may be an up-and-coming artist that is collectable. He was also talking about the fact that even in harsh economic times people still speculate on things like art. The logic being that it can be quite cheap to invest in especially if you buy something because you actually like it but it could turn out to be worth a hell of a lot more later on when people have much more money to spend on acquiring pieces of art. He's put me in contact with one of his clients that specialise in local arts and crafts website he's working on at the moment to help them sell online so when I have a few more pieces because I am try to vary the types of work I'm doing I will show them my work and hopefully they may have people who will buy this type of art and also they have been doing it for 25 years so they may also be able to tell me what I could reasonably expect to sell things for.
So it was good meeting the guy and him sharing his ideas, just like on the forums.

[D.C.]

Martin makes a good point, after all you can make millions by chainsawing a shark in two...

[Fivetide]

Martin makes a good point, after all you can make millions by chainsawing a shark in two...

Hmm that gives me an Idea !! carve something out of a dead sheep lol !

[martin54]

David, I have trouble sleeping sometimes for a number of reasons I won't go into on here which explains the late night/early morning activity on forums sometimes lol.

Sounds like you may have found someone who may be able to help, just keep an eye on what they ask you to spend in order to possibly sell something. Your right in that it is subjective & people vary enormously so finding your target market can be a bit of a minefield, having someone who knows about art & how to place it should help. I know from my work designing signs & vehicle livery how difficult it can be even though what I do isn't art.
Course it's not all subjective, once you have made a name for yourself you can sell any old tat at silly money & people buy it just because of who produced it regardless of any like or dislike for it lol.

[Fivetide]

I've added a couple more new pieces to the gallery and tided up the website (http://www.freckart.com) a bit. I'm now replicating these two using other woods to see what they look like. I'll post them whenI finish.. takes bloody ages to finish them off lol !

84388439

[Lee Roberts]

The logic being that it can be quite cheap to invest in especially if you buy something because you actually like it.

Sweet, dose that mean you now have a price in mind for "x1pcs Sitting Man 2" ? I'd like to click the Buy It Now button ?

:devilish:

.Me

[Fivetide]

Sweet, dose that mean you now have a price in mind for "x1pcs Sitting Man 2" ? I'd like to click the Buy It Now button ?

:devilish:

.Me

Shot myself in the bloody foot there lol !! Still dont know, I know this though, the wood is about £3 not much... took me about 4 hours to create it and get/convert into G-code, and then 8 hours on the CNC, 2 hours to finish it off. take away the creating part, becasue thats spread over anymore i make ( Max of 50), its still 10 hours work plus 8 hours of electricty .. you see where I'm going I had never thought of this part before.. so if you were making a one off job with those stats what would you charge ?

[GEOFFREY]

Again, very nice. G.

[Swarfing]

Fivetide i think you have answered your own question. Problem you are just be too nice to come out and say it :very_drunk:.

If you think of it as commodity then you already know the price plus 40% markup. Problem is this is art and there is more in the piece than just time, electrickery and pc time. If it was me then i would scare the willies out of Lee and say £10,000 :whistle:

[Fivetide]

Again, very nice. G.

Thanks Geof and I thought you were supposed to be a grumpy old B'stard lol :)


Fivetide i think you have answered your own question. Problem you are just be too nice to come out and say it :very_drunk:.

If you think of it as commodity then you already know the price plus 40% markup. Problem is this is art and there is more in the piece than just time, electrickery and pc time. If it was me then i would scare the willies out of Lee and say £10,000 :whistle:

damn I need to get the tinfoil RobinHood hat out ... cause someones in my mind lol ...!! Spot on mate you nailed it on the head ..:very_drunk:.. I would rather Lee made me a "private" offer that way I dont fcuk up and sell myself short.

[GEOFFREY]

Thanks Geof and I thought you were supposed to be a grumpy old B'stard lol :)



damn I need to get the tinfoil RobinHood hat out ... cause someones in my mind lol ...!! Spot on mate you nailed it on the head ..:very_drunk:.. I would rather Lee made me a "private" offer that way I dont fcuk up and sell myself short.

In an earlier post I referred to myself as grey old git, don't know where the grumpy bit came from. I can only guess someone has been talking to my wife!!!

The general advice about pricing is very sound. It is always difficult to establish a name in the art world, many people have already carved up sheep - they are usually referred to as butchers! I think that a good starting place for your items would be on a site like etsy and see what interest develops. Another option would be to try to get a gallery to display some items. Limiting the numbers to 50 per edition is a good idea. Just my own opinion. Good luck, G.

[Fivetide]

Experimenting with woods and finishes.. light one is Tulip satin coat and the darker one is African Mahogany with a polished surface

8468

8467

[m_c]

Shot myself in the bloody foot there lol !! Still dont know, I know this though, the wood is about £3 not much... took me about 4 hours to create it and get/convert into G-code, and then 8 hours on the CNC, 2 hours to finish it off. take away the creating part, becasue thats spread over anymore i make ( Max of 50), its still 10 hours work plus 8 hours of electricty .. you see where I'm going I had never thought of this part before.. so if you were making a one off job with those stats what would you charge ?


Pricing is a very subjective thing.
I know the bits I sell, my effective hourly rate works out a bit low, but that's due to machinery limitations. It's still high enough to make it worthwhile, but the main thing is it's letting me work towards better machines, which will ultimately lead to a higher effective hourly rate.

You've got to figure do you want to sell more at a lower price, or less at a higher price?
And how much do they really cost you to machine?

[m.marino]

Fivetide,

I have sent a PM with my cell number, give me a call and will chat as we have and are going through the same issue and I will gladly let you know what we put in our formula to figure pricing and you might have some ideas that help us as well. It is difficult to figure the price as there is a lot that goes into it.


Michael

[Fivetide]

Soooo after a lengthy and very informative conversation with Mike I have decided to sell the artwork at £250 each. My rational has changed after speaking with Mike, there is a lot of things I didn’t factor in. Anyway they are a one off piece you could never replicate any of them as you would never find the wood to do it, because quite frankly it’s gone, the artwork itself is totally original I handcrafted it using software. that might sound a bit strange that I use software to create art but the vast majority of art these days especially in digital media is created using software. It helps people like me who are not gifted artists to be all to realise and create something easily or should I say easier.The actual sculpting of course could be replicated precisely but like I said these are completely one-off pieces albeit in different woods. The problem is that any less than that would make them uncollectible based on the fact that I undersold them. And as I discussed with other people that make bespoke items no one would take you seriously, thinking you basically have someone in China making them for you and you're just a retailer. And quite frankly it wouldn't be worth my time to reproduce or sit down and do the creative side. So that is my rationale and I'm sticking with it, maybe I won't sell any and have to give them away to family and friends but hey that's life. I do know that some of my friends and a few of my family will be quite happy to have them as gifts.

[Swarfing]

:yahoo:knew you would get there in the end

[WandrinAndy]

Soooo after a lengthy and very informative conversation with Mike I have decided to sell the artwork at £250 each. My rational has changed after speaking with Mike, there is a lot of things I didn’t factor in............

As someone who is hoping to really get in to becoming a maker towards the end of this year, I have been following the pricing aspects of this thread with interest! Thanks Chaps, it's been great food for thought for me.

Thanks,
Andy

[Fivetide]

:yahoo:knew you would get there in the end

i needed to didnt I .. well slow but like you said got there in the end :)


As someone who is hoping to really get in to becoming a maker towards the end of this year, I have been following the pricing aspects of this thread with interest! Thanks Chaps, it's been great food for thought for me.

Thanks,
Andy

I 2nd that you have all been a great help..

[martin54]

As someone who is hoping to really get in to becoming a maker towards the end of this year, I have been following the pricing aspects of this thread with interest! Thanks Chaps, it's been great food for thought for me.

Thanks,
Andy

Might be worth you asking the question again when the time comes Andy, lots of different things to consider that will affect how you price things.

[Fivetide]

May be Lee could have a sticky called pricing considerations.,? Only after talking to Mike who obviously is heavily into the pricing because it's his full-time occupation I found things that I hadn't even considered. For instance I went down to the Wood yard to pick out some materials by the time I had finished it works three hours including the drive time. Then there were the prototype's that didn't quite work, and also some of the attempted finished work where the wood had hidden problems, and had to be discarded halfway through. Then the time creating the website to advertise the stuff the list goes on and on. And also at some point like Mike said it goes from a hobby or part-time job to where the taxman becomes interested in what you are selling. Anyway there was just a thought.

[GEOFFREY]

The Taxman - Try to look on that as a positive, whilst tax returns are a PITA, you only pay tax if you have made a profit, something that you are obviously hoping to do. G.

[D.C.]

In an earlier post I referred to myself as grey old git, don't know where the grumpy bit came from. I can only guess someone has been talking to my wife!!!

Sorry mate my old man is called Geoffrey, it must have been a freudian slip. I'll retract the grumpy bit if you are going to have a huff about it! ;)

[GEOFFREY]

Your dad must be ok, all the best people are called Geoffrey. Anyway don't bother with the retraction, I'm grumpy now!!! G.

[Fivetide]

Three more , I have been using different woods to see how they work with some models

854085418542

[motoxy]

I have to chip in and say that these are works of art. Most artist do not make their own paint and brushes so using tools is part and parcel. I work a lot in wood and your choices are sweet. What size are these pieces?

Bruce

BTW I remember Geoffrey when he was in rainbow;-)

[Fivetide]

I have to chip in and say that these are works of art. Most artist do not make their own paint and brushes so using tools is part and parcel. I work a lot in wood and your choices are sweet. What size are these pieces?

Bruce

BTW I remember Geoffrey when he was in rainbow;-)

Hi Bruce, they are all 200 x 200 x 30 - 25 mm. And I agree my CNC is a tool that converts my ideas into form :)

[GEOFFREY]

Lovely pieces again Fivetide. motoxy, I'm afraid my rainbow days are long since past. G.

[irving2008]

my 2p worth... my brother is an amateur photographer specialising in abstracts (www.simoncaplanphotography.co.uk). he has sold a few pics through an artists collective which sets up exhibitions of local work of all types, photos, paintings, sculpture, etc. suggest you look for something similar

[Fivetide]

my 2p worth... my brother is an amateur photographer specialising in abstracts (www.simoncaplanphotography.co.uk). he has sold a few pics through an artists collective which sets up exhibitions of local work of all types, photos, paintings, sculpture, etc. suggest you look for something similar

Irvin your brother does great work mate ..

I’m currently talking to some people about the possibility of a mobile Gallery , in the sense of hiring an empty shop for a month in various towns and cities, then renting out wall space, as the lack of galleries near to me is terrible.

[martin54]

Round this way there are a lot of coffee type shops that will let artists hang stuff on the walls. One of my sons use to put stuff up in one of them a few years ago, sold a few pictures but gave up doing it because it also led to people asking him to paint specific types of picture for them rather than what he wanted to do. The customers were always over the moon with what he did but he was never happy with them & just gave up doing it. I suppose that's artists for you lol

[Swarfing]

You would be better off aiming higher than coffee shops. I would check out the high end Painting shops and see if they will do a feature display for you. They do sales on commission :chuncky:

Stick to doing minimum numbers, people like to collect sets :dog:

[martin54]

You would be better off aiming higher than coffee shops. I would check out the high end Painting shops and see if they will do a feature display for you. They do sales on commission :chuncky:

Stick to doing minimum numbers, people like to collect sets :dog:

I would have to disagree with that, you might be surprised just how well it can work & you want your work seen by as many people as possible so having something hanging on a wall in a coffee shop is just one way to get noticed, I wouldn't for one minute suggest it is the only way to display your work as the other ideas already mentioned have merit as well.

[Swarfing]

I have a friend who does cartoon strip art. He used to hang his work in coffee shops, furniture shops. All he was ever offered was coffee shop prices. He approached a shop up in stow on the wolds. He sold less pieces but 50 x the price of a coffee. He also found that it was repeat customers who kept going back for more. That is the only reason i suggested it.

[Bazzer]

Have you thought of trying Forsyths in Lytham?

[martin54]

I have a friend who does cartoon strip art. He used to hang his work in coffee shops, furniture shops. All he was ever offered was coffee shop prices. He approached a shop up in stow on the wolds. He sold less pieces but 50 x the price of a coffee. He also found that it was repeat customers who kept going back for more. That is the only reason i suggested it.

I agree with you about displaying work in high end places that are known for this sort of thing all I was saying was I thought it was wrong to dismiss the coffee shops, all the stuff on the walls round here has a price on it so no being offered silly money & the prices do vary from ridiculously cheap as your friend obviously experienced to what I would call expensive for what it is but then I know nothing about art lol
Worth popping in to a couple of places just to see what others are doing in my opinion as well as targeting high end shops & galleries especially for someone who is unknown as an artist just now.

[Fivetide]

Round this way there are a lot of coffee type shops that will let artists hang stuff on the walls. One of my sons use to put stuff up in one of them a few years ago, sold a few pictures but gave up doing it because it also led to people asking him to paint specific types of picture for them rather than what he wanted to do. The customers were always over the moon with what he did but he was never happy with them & just gave up doing it. I suppose that's artists for you lol
Hi Martin, yes I know artist are fickle beasts, he obviously loved what he did and not what he might get for it. I have applied to a couple of craft guilds locally if nothing else a panel may like my stuff and want to have a few piece in a n exhibition. This is the north mate coffee shops are rare but I do live near Lytham St Anne’s so there is a lot of collectors in the area. But the majority of shops selling art buy in mass produced stuff and it’s not what I want to display next to lol.
Here’s another piece I did this weekend in Tulip wood, I saw the raw would with this strong vein of black – purple and thought it would add a bit of difference to the finished object.

8543

[martin54]

David don't think the money was important to him as with a lot of artists, was more about producing work that he was proud of & others liked.
I'm further North than you lol & although there may not be a coffee shop on every street there are a few about if you look. Normally high street sort of locations where you get a high volume of people passing through.
I wouldn't be looking at places that sell mass produced art either, different sort of customer from what you want entirely. Plus they would probably be looking to buy direct from you really cheaply so they could mark up to make a big profit rather than sell on a commission basis.
I do like the idea of sets that has been mentioned which would encourage people to buy more than one piece. If you produced say 3 or 4 pieces with a common theme or something linking them like say a sitting woman, same sitting pregnant woman & same sitting woman with child.
I wouldn't make them all as sets as not everyone will want that sort of thing but if you had a selection it might help.

[D.C.]

Thinking about it, the last time I went to the botanical gardens in brum the tea shop had expanded into an art gallery where local artists were displaying work with £100 - £5000 price tags attached.

Might be worth visiting all the local RHS/English Heritage/PlacesThatToffsLikeToGo sites see if they have similar facilities for local artists or if they would be interested in displaying your work for a cut of course...

[Swarfing]

I agree about it not being about the money. The thing is with this sort of stuff, do you want her down the road buying it because it goes with her cushions and pay peanuts? or the guy up on the hill that agrees with the art and shows his appreciation. If this was not the case then we would all be able to buy rhino horn and ivory in the local cafe. Art should be an individual pieces with a price tag that is show in the quality and inspiration of the piece? To make it truly a one off maybe think about destruction of the code and drawings after each piece is finished? In terms of sets they should be made all at the same time and sold as individual pieces. For a collector that would make it all about the chase.

Rob who does the cartoons does not do them all the time. He sells them at the same place and has a small following. He is an artist and loves his work, it is not about the money just the satisfaction that others enjoy his work.

[irving2008]

Was chatting to my bro (he says thanks for the feedback btw) about artists collectives and he did a google search and came up with this:

PAD Gallery (http://www.theartguide.co.uk/Profiles/?Profile=195)

There a number of other possibles on that site too.

[Fivetide]

Was chatting to my bro (he says thanks for the feedback btw) about artists collectives and he did a google search and came up with this:

PAD Gallery (http://www.theartguide.co.uk/Profiles/?Profile=195)

There a number of other possibles on that site too.

Thanks guys and thanks for the link Irving I have emailed them with a link to my work .. fingers crossed they might display some :) I need to sell some of them so I can by a bigger badder machine and make some bigger pieces.