Boxford Model B lathe rebuild

ive owned this lathe for about a year now and ive finally got the time to do a full strip down and rebuild.
i know its not a cnc lathe but that may well change once its been rebuilt.
mechanically everything works and all bearings seem to be in good nick but you never know what you'll find until you get knee deep
now... lets get down and dirty


the white paint job is definitely not the original hue and alot of it has or is in the process of flaking off
plenty of heavy duty dirt and grease too, i think im going to need a fair bit of degreaser (aka red diesel)
Attachment 6061


here is a better picture showing the stout steel cabinet freshly liberated from the shed
ive already partially stripped the lathe at this stage as i only have brute force and ignorance to get it outside the cramped shed
Attachment 6062


here is a close up of the cabinet top, just after being de-swarfed, de-greased and ready for sanding
Attachment 6063

these photos are also available on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/79384660@N07/7273819848/

Hi Jonny,
I did a "C" a few years ago. To strip the paint off, use Nitromos + cheap angle grinder with a metal brush fitted. Works a treat !
Just make sure you wear eyes protection, Nitromos is not forgiving!

Here is a pic before and after:
Attachment 6064Attachment 6065

And some pics of the lathe fully de-assembled! And I do mean FULLY!
Attachment 6066Attachment 6067

If you need help to put it back together, give me let me know... I can re-assemble these in the both eye shut... ;-)

RNR

RNR

RNR thats exactly what im planning to do regarding paint removal although i do detest nitromors, its a terribly messy way of doing things but it'll save some time.
i like the way you added the little touches of yellow, you have one very pretty lathe
i dont think il have too many problems rebuilding it as ive had most of it striped down before when i first got it (only way to get it into my shed) although time will tell
still not sure whether i should paint it as the original colour or something different, im thinking white but am open to any ideas.
im hoping to put up plenty more pictures as i progress on tomorrow

rnr is that a CSB?

Hi Jonny,
The lathe is a "C" part of the AUD, BUD, CUD , A, B and C family. I am not sure what the difference are with the CSB ...

For the grey pain I use Myford Grey (Nice color and easly found). Bought it from this guy:
http://www.lathespares.co.uk/myford-...rd-lathe-p-412

For the primer I used U-Pol (From Halford) Acid-8 for all aluminium parts and red-oxide for all cast iron / steel parts.

Great paint, can be sprayed (diluted with White-spirit) or brushed on directly...

Yellow pain was a spray can for the local DIY place.

Ha... almost forgot, you can get new labels (all the small aluminium plates / charts) directly from Boxford. a few quids each...

Post some pictures during your rebuild!


RNR

the CSB was a what i believe to be just short bed version of the model c lathe
http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/page15.html

RNR, i think ive got one heck of a challenge to get it looking half as good as yours, anyone should be proud to have such a beautiful piece of kit like that!
im still thinking of going white and possibly dark blue accents (the same blue they use on the name plates etc) unless someone can persuade me otherwise! and il see what plates i can rescue before i splash out on new ones.

i will certainly post more photos, i should have a few more up later on today

Hi Jonny,
Thank you for the compliment! :-)
It took a long time to get it there... about 3 months between the striping, degreacing, paint removal, repaint....wait....wait....(paint is drying slowly in this country)
then finally re-assemble , re-oil.... and try!

Colour is a question of choise... If White is what's float your boat, Go for it! ;-)
Don't forget the double coat of primer! (etching primer on all aluminium parts, red oxide on steel and iron)

Looking forward to see more pics!

RNR

more de-greasing & de-gunking today, id love to be able to shot blast this cab but i don't see funds stretching that far.
the method im using for cleaning is rather simple and quite cheap although it is laborious, what i use is...

1) rather than using an expensive degreasing product i use lovely cheap & cheerful red diesel (ive also used kerosene but i find diesel is easier to clean up).
2) an assortment of brushes including wire brushes, scrubbing brushes, dustpan brush (its handy to have one thats dry) and even a tooth brush for the little nooks and crannys
3) budget brand toilet paper (or any other cheap disposable paper towel) rather than spread dirt and grease just bin it

diesel makes a great degreaser but it leaves a thin layer when used so a further rub down is required to get a clean surface for paint

this photo shows the rear of the cabinet, upside down resting on 2 pieces of wood
Attachment 6076

some one has previously done some welding to the bottom of the cab and i don't commend their technique
Attachment 6077

the door sporting the original boxford logo and the suppliers plate
Attachment 6078

a close up of the suppliers plate
Attachment 6079

this is the lock that is currently fitted to the door, i dont have a key for it and it doesn't fit properly so il have to find a suitable replacement
Attachment 6080

the barrel of the lock doesn't even match up to the hole let alone fit in to it
Attachment 6081

the lathe bed sitting upside down on the table, notice the solid lump of swarf reinforced grease ontop of the foot on the left
Attachment 6082

this is the head stock end of the bed, the paint simply rubbed off with a piece of toilet paper
Attachment 6083

as of yet i have not found any sign that there was primer used when it was last painted and i dont think it was even cleaned properly
who ever painted this lathe was/is a grade A idiot

RNR, do you think i could use 1 coat red oxide primer and then a coat of white primer in prep for the white paint?

Hi,
Yes, white primer on top of Red oxide is fine... Just mke sure they are of the same brand. I had a bubled paint problem painting different brands on top of each other.
If you want to paint white, you could use a High build primer on the top of the red oxide. (U-Pol High-5) these are beige almost white and are very thick, very good to hide the defects of the castings. And once fully dry, can be sand smooth (300 grit). I used it on the rough parts of the castings and got a pretty good finish after sending.

A couples of tip:
Get an angle grinder with a metal brush (You can get one fron 15 quids) a lot easier than a hand brush.
Lots of very light coats give a much better finish than 1 heavy one...

Are you going to spray or brush ?


RNR

i dont have a wire wheel for the grinder but i use ones on the drill,but i think i may well invest in one i do have experience of spraying motorcycle components so im not too worried about technique and although i would not call my paint work professional standard i feel its good enough, i think my real problem is patience i am going to spray, i know i would get a better finish with sprayingthanks for the information, i appreciate it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rnr107

Hi Jonny,
The lathe is a "C" part of the AUD, BUD, CUD , A, B and C family. I am not sure what the difference are with the CSB ...

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Nice rebuild but not keen on the yellow myself but like you say colour is a personal thing.!

I've got an AUD long bed and I love it stands me at next to nothing and runs sweet as nut.
Did think to turn it CNC but just couldn't bare to do it to such a nice machine, really would like a CNC lathe thou so it's come close a few times.!! Anyway those urges have all gone now has I've had a scabby Myford super 7 given free so thats getting CNC'd soon has I get chance.

is it just me or do boxford owners see myfords as inferior? ive never even seen a myford lathe in person let alone had the chance to do a comparison. i have looked into converting the lathe to cnc but i would rather just save up and get a TCL to restore and then have the best of both.:friendly_wink:
im getting ahead of myself, i dont even have a mill... yet! oh my, wouldn't a VMC be a lovely addition to my future boxford collection :smug:

Jazz,
The JCB yellow is my favorite bit ! I love this little touch of brightness! :-) How well, I guess I can not please everyone... :-)

Jonny,
Myfords are a lot smaller than the Boxford. Which VMC are you talking about? Boxford 260VMC or Warco VMC ?


BTW: If one of you is after a CNC lathe, I have Boxford TCL125 converted to Mach3 ready to run... I just need to finish the front panel for it and it will be for sell...

RNR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rnr107

BTW: If one of you is after a CNC lathe, I have Boxford TCL125 converted to Mach3 ready to run... I just need to finish the front panel for it and it will be for sell...

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Shudder at the thought.!!! . . I build em don't buy-em. . .Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rnr107

Jazz,

Jonny,
Myfords are a lot smaller than the Boxford. Which VMC are you talking about? Boxford 260VMC or Warco VMC ?

RNR

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I thought you would have inferred from context.
of course i meant boxford but not necessarily the 260
as much as id love a 125 tcl what i really need right now is a mill although il consider it, fancy pm'ing me an idea on price and some specs?

Jonny whats that bike on your avtar.? Is it TZ 250.? Can't see it very clear.!

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Jonny whats that bike on your avtar.? Is it TZ 250.? Can't see it very clear.!

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honda rs250 @ kells road race.
the competitive lads dont use tz's over here, its a shame, i have a soft spot for the tz's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnydeen

honda rs250 @ kells road race.
the competitive lads dont use tz's over here, its a shame, i have a soft spot for the tz's

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Ye I had a feeling it was honda from discs and bit of frame fairing/fender etc but that exhaust looked too low and TZ like so did tank/seat. Wondered if it was some TZ hybrid affair.!!

I used to work for HRC Honda UK many many moons ago.! Spencer, Haslam, Roger bernett, Roger marshal days. . Prized possession is one of freddies old helmets which he signed for me. . . Happy days.!!

jealousy levels rapidly rising! do you by chance remember the vf500 championship?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnydeen

jealousy levels rapidly rising! do you by chance remember the vf500 championship?

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I remember blowing them upon test rig to find out why they where eating cams like they'd gone out of fashion. . Lol

Didn't follow the road champion ships much, to be honest most of my work was with the motox side engine tuning. Did the occasional work on some problem bikes like VF's and early VFR's when they where warping crank cases and eating main bearings.!!
Thats how I met freddie because his engine technicians where based in our workshop for a time using my test rig because it was more setup for 2 strokes, also the NSR500 and NSR250 used a lot of similiar motox technology we had on our bikes, electrics etc. Ended up at silverstone for 3days helping with setup it was great.!
I actually had the chance to join main race team and turned it down because I was all loved up.!!!! . . . . . What a silly bastard.:stupid: Thou Motox was my first choice(love) anyway and that got me about a bit.!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

I remember blowing them upon test rig to find out why they where eating cams like they'd gone out of fashion. . Lol

Didn't follow the road champion ships much, to be honest most of my work was with the motox side engine tuning. Did the occasional work on some problem bikes like VF's and early VFR's when they where warping crank cases and eating main bearings.!!
Thats how I met freddie because his engine technicians where based in our workshop for a time using my test rig because it was more setup for 2 strokes, also the NSR500 and NSR250 used a lot of similiar motox technology we had on our bikes, electrics etc. Ended up at silverstone for 3days helping with setup it was great.!
I actually had the chance to join main race team and turned it down because I was all loved up.!!!! . . . . . What a silly bastard.:stupid: Thou Motox was my first choice(love) anyway and that got me about a bit.!!

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wow you truly have had such an interesting career. the reason i asked about the vf500's is because i have one. 84 500f2e the earliest year if my memory serves me correct, 36k miles and no infamous chocolate cam syndrome (no service history) love the bike but its an absolute pox to work on
Attachment 6085

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnydeen

wow you truly have had such an interesting career. the reason i asked about the vf500's is because i have one. 84 500f2e the earliest year if my memory serves me correct, 36k miles and no infamous chocolate cam syndrome (no service history) love the bike but its an absolute pox to work on

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Yep they were right camels to work on.!! . . To be honest the first early bikes had big problems they where snapping cranks but this was quickly sorted and changed so only a few hundred (In UK) I believe had the trouble and those engines were changed for the updated engine. But they still had issue's with snapping rocker arms and wearing cam lobes away but this was largely caused by user error and not letting the engine warm up enough before wringing it's neck.!! . . . . Thou to be honest it's such a nice fun bike it made you want to wring it's neck. . Lol

Edit: Eh eh funny how things come back to you when you sit and think back.!!
The reason they were eating the cams was that the gearbox and topend shared the same oil thru pressurised oil ways but what was happening was the oil was draining back out the galleys and oil pools when stood back into bottom end. So when starting there wasn't enough initial pressure to push the oil up to the cams before damage was done.!
Also the cams where much more finiky about clean oil than the gearbox so after a few 1000 miles contamination was creating pickup on the journals.!! . . . . So change the oil often and spin engine over a couple of times before starting to pressurerise oil system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnydeen

I thought you would have inferred from context.
of course i meant boxford but not necessarily the 260
as much as id love a 125 tcl what i really need right now is a mill although il consider it, fancy pm'ing me an idea on price and some specs?

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I said VMC260 because this is what I have... :-) Looks like you are going for the exact machine I went for! Must be a Northern Irish thing... :-)
(I lived in Belfast for almost 10 years before moving to England)

PM sent...

RNR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rnr107

I said VMC260 because this is what I have... :-) Looks like you are going for the exact machine I went for! Must be a Northern Irish thing... :-)
(I lived in Belfast for almost 10 years before moving to England)

PM sent...

RNR

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not so much a northern irish thing, it was completely by chance that i got that particular lathe, i know that boxford make good machines and i think it would be peachy to have a collection
im not particularly fussy on brand, i cant afford to be
i wouldn't even mind an emco f1/pc50 or a denford nova/star mill, i just need some machine to bring my ideas of grandeur to fruition, then i can have my collection :friendly_wink:

by chance, would any one know how much these lathes weigh? i only need a good estimate as i have decided to mount it on castors
it would certainly make moving it back into the shed easier but i also plan on putting in a bigger shed in the future so it'd be a god send!
can anyone think of any downsides?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnydeen

can anyone think of any downsides?

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Yes loss of accurecy.?? The lathe needs to be sat level and true, if the floors uneven it will/could put the bed in twist lossing paralleismmmmm.

very good point
do you think that would be such an issue? the heavy steel cabinet would be on castors and the lathe itself is on adjustable feet.
is there any precautionary counter-measures you can think of, that allow me to safely use castors?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnydeen

very good point
do you think that would be such an issue? the heavy steel cabinet would be on castors and the lathe itself is on adjustable feet.
is there any precautionary counter-measures you can think of, that allow me to safely use castors?

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Depends to what degree of accurecy you want.? I've got an AUD and know setting level flat made a difference to my accurecy. To do it right you need a parallel test bar and you'd be surprised the difference just an thin shim can make so I positive castors would have a negative affect on accurecy.!!

Personally I would try to find it a permanent home, even if you had lift up down castors it would be an hassle and not fun job setting true every time you move it.!

i think im going to have to re-evaluate my working conditions as i can't imagine the shed floor being particularly level
jazz i believe you have saved me from a novice pit-fall

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Personally I would try to find it a permanent home, even if you had lift up down castors it would be an hassle and not fun job setting true every time you move it.!

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would it be correct to say that prolonged use on an uneven surface would create irreparable damage?
i cant see myself upgrading workshop so il just have to weigh up my options before doing anything rash

hi, build log lm a new member onecut is the name lv read your thread about your restoration of your boxford and lm following in your footsteps havn,t got my lathe yet be about 3wks when guy is next in area so lm watching your blogs with intrest and hope l can pick your brains of what and not to do hurry up and do an extension on how you are progressing need to kmow as start what quantities of diesiel ,paint, primer,red lead etc that will keep me busy until l start the painting-take care be happy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onecut

hi, build log lm a new member onecut is the name lv read your thread about your restoration of your boxford and lm following in your footsteps havn,t got my lathe yet be about 3wks when guy is next in area so lm watching your blogs with intrest and hope l can pick your brains of what and not to do hurry up and do an extension on how you are progressing need to kmow as start what quantities of diesiel ,paint, primer,red lead etc that will keep me busy until l start the painting-take care be happy

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The fun bit is not the paint. It is the preparation... Nitromos ! Wire brush ! Masking tape !
Once you've finished repainting nicely your new lathe, these 3 words above will be the one you won't want to hear ever again! Beleive me! ;-)

Seriously, To get a good finish on the paint, the secret is to take your time on the preparation! Make sure you get the whole lathe down to bare metal and shiny. No rust, do trace of oil, greace or old point. And do de-assemble everything and mask. Lot of people repaint there Lathe fully assemble and without masking, the result is horible... and the new paint peels off after a few weeks.

RNR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onecut

hi, build log lm a new member onecut is the name lv read your thread about your restoration of your boxford and lm following in your footsteps havn,t got my lathe yet be about 3wks when guy is next in area so lm watching your blogs with intrest and hope l can pick your brains of what and not to do hurry up and do an extension on how you are progressing need to kmow as start what quantities of diesiel ,paint, primer,red lead etc that will keep me busy until l start the painting-take care be happy

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Welcome onecut

i am glad to see this thread is already being of use to someone
im going to get a move on shortly with the restoration and you can be sure i will post up more photos.

as for quantities, it really depends on what method you are going to use. spray cans, spray gun or brush?
as for diesel i just filled a 5 liter drum, im just using it to clean up the heavy dirt and grease so i dont think il use more than 2 liters
you don't have to use diesel, i just use it because its cheap and close at hand

what i really recommend you have is some wire wheels, either for a drill or an angle grinder but preferably both big and small in sizes
and as much as i hate the stuff, nitromors is the best way of stripping paint from areas the wire wheels wont fit.

good luck with the restoration

Hi,johnny-yes l do find your article of use and no doubt others between you and the other guy you were conversing with planted the seed of what my dirty unkept lathe can look like with a bit of hard graft lm logging in each day awaiting you updating the dairy l work in engineering where we make tin printers so i,ll be getting the paint from work theres a dark blue and a light grey think it will be grey lm going to strip the lathe right down hopefully clean everything reoil,regrease and fun begins reassemble l was thinking when l have gears out, l can get them blackodized what do you think will it benefit the gears when you think about these boxfords must have at least40yrs grime inside cant be improving things hyavnt had a lathe before so its a learning curve and a large bit of listening-take care-onecut

Hi RNR, l work in a factory where we make tin printing machines was telling the painter about my soon coming lathe and what l wanted to do to it showing him apic of yours before and after he said i,ll get you the paint l asked for battleship grey l know they use this colour on their machines so thats one thing off the list l said what about red lead he said you dont need it with this paint theres an agent mixed in paint that stops rust what do you use the acid for cleaning the ally parts? what is red oxides job is it for sealing to stop rust if it is l dont think l need it with this paint would like to spray can get gun off ebay£15 rated 5stars and goob backfeed from past purchases thin it with white spirit and give it 3 coats dont know ratio of white spirit and paint=so that leaves the primer what does this bring to the table

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Originally Posted by onecut

Hi RNR, l work in a factory where we make tin printing machines was telling the painter about my soon coming lathe and what l wanted to do to it showing him apic of yours before and after he said i,ll get you the paint l asked for battleship grey l know they use this colour on their machines so thats one thing off the list l said what about red lead he said you dont need it with this paint theres an agent mixed in paint that stops rust what do you use the acid for cleaning the ally parts? what is red oxides job is it for sealing to stop rust if it is l dont think l need it with this paint would like to spray can get gun off ebay£15 rated 5stars and goob backfeed from past purchases thin it with white spirit and give it 3 coats dont know ratio of white spirit and paint=so that leaves the primer what does this bring to the table

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Hi Onecut,
The red oxide is a primer to protect against rust. I know, many paint manufacturer says that it is not needed. But I prefer to be safe than sorry if you see what I mean... Painting a lathe properly is a loooooooong job, so you don't want to have to re-do it in 6 month time... So use Red oxide primer on steel / iron parts! Then etching primer on aluminum parts (acid8 is good). Acid8 is a special primer for aluminium it is not use to clean, check U-pol web site for details. http://www.u-pol.com/documents/datas...8AL-TDS-EN.pdf

That paint you use at work, is it heat and oil / petrol resistant ? Because if it isn't, the paint won't last very long...
This is what I used: (It is specially formulated for machinery)...
http://www.lathespares.co.uk/paint-m...rd-lathe-p-412

Laurent

Hi, laurent thanks for replying dont know if its heat,parafin,resistant i,ll find out before l use it if not i,ll buy the stuff your recomending l suspect the paint from work will have the qualities your asking about as we make industrail printers , presses so l suppose it would have to have those qualities or like you say would come off in no time and customers wouldnt be impressed but i,ll make sure and quiz the painter before l proceed-thanks

back to the grind (pun intended)
been busy of late restoring a yamaha rd & trying to find a mill
now the search is over and ill have a centec 2 mill arriving in about two weeks time.

the centec is going to need a complete strip down and rebuild then it'l be converted to cnc :)

with the centec project looming, the pressure is on to get the boxford finished.

let me introduce you to my little friends...
Attachment 6220Attachment 6221
i dedicate two cheap 115mm grinders to the unforgiving job of paint removal and with the addition of one 'weapon' of a wire wheel i have one formidable setup.
the reason for using 2 grinders is simple, they have a tendency to overheat so i swap them over every once in a while.
the drill is used for getting into tight spots but it doesn't have the umph to compete with the grinder

today i started to attack the cabinet
Attachment 6222Attachment 6223
you can see the effect of the grinder on the top of the cabinet, like a knife through butter
in the next photo you can see the 'sump' (if thats what its called) too narrow for the grinder, the drill makes short work of this

i got as far as doing the top and front of the cab as well as the door then gave the stripped parts a lick of red oxide primer
Attachment 6225Attachment 6224
tomorrow i am aiming to have the rest of the cab stripped primed and the interior parts painted leaving the exterior ready for its first coat (if im lucky i may get 1 or 2 coats done)

you may notice the castors on the left hand side of the cab, these are just for ease of moving the cabinet

kudos to RNR for the grinder / wire wheel idea, i never thought of putting one on the grinder

Hi Jonny,
Good job on the stripping! Keep the good work! ;-)

One thing tho, Once a part has been prime, it can not stay without paint for more than a day or 2... The primer must not get in contact with humidity once it is dry.
You must paint over it (with final paint or under-coat) ASAP .

Ho.... and do a test first primer... then paint on a small section to see if the paint re-act to the primer. (not all paints are compatible with all primers...)
If it bubble, it's a no go! I had that with primer from Plasti-kote.

Laurent