The 2.2Kw Chinese Spindles - Info, Setup and Advice + More

Thought it might be an idea to centralise some info on the commonly used 2.2Kw Chinese supplied spindle.

This is what I'm looking at:

• China supplied
• 2.2Kw
• Includes power supply
• Including postage

There are a ton of "different" suppliers on EBay, at this time (01/03/13) they all charge £252 (inc. P&P) for the spindle and power supply.

I'm hoping if people manage to get a cheaper deal they can post up where they got it from and how much for. :thumsup:

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Spindle:

• Current thinking is to buy only one with "German bearings" However every one I could see stated they have these. Has anyone proven a difference with these bearings?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

As far as I can see it's just luck with the bearings. The sellers on ali-express will discuss them however, so it's possible to get better ones but you do pay for it. I got my spindle from the eBay seller 'solar.jean', which was the cheapest at the time with best offer saving about £20. Turns out it has 4 bearings (H7005C TN1-2RZ and 7002CTYN) and the two big ones are a matched pair with the V markings on the outer rings, so it looks like I got lucky. Bear in mind however that was a couple of years ago, and someone on the forum got one from the same seller a week after me and received a presumably different model as his didn't have any writing on the side.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by D.C.

This thread has some good internal pics and info
Water cooled Chinese spindle disassembly - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!

And this one has cross sections
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/tool-t...tion-view.html

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobiwan

Quick note:

Its a bit of a crap shoot with the cheapest VFD suppliers. Sometimes you get decent bearings, sometimes less so. Sometimes you only get 2 bearings, sometimes 4 [Jonathan Edit: It's 4 or 3 bearings, never 2]. Main problem is the quality control with the Haunyang VFD. Some last years, others are dead straight out the box or only last a short while. If your unlucky and get a faulty one don't bother trying your luck again by replacing it with another Haunyang, get an Hitachi X200 VFD instead. These are pretty much faultless.

These Chinese spindles might all look the same but there are quality differences so paying more might not be a bad thing. If you want cheap as possible you usually get what you pay for and you'll be taking pot luck. Problem is how to guarantee a decent unit? Well I bought this.

Spindle Motor 3 Phase 2.2KW Water cooled ER20 with Matching VFD

Its tested and comes with decent bearings and 4 of 'em instead of 2 [Jonathan Edit: It's 4 or 3 bearings, never 2]. You also get a UK warranty should anything go wrong! Downside is its about £100 more than the cheapest Chinese one's but it does remove all the question marks.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee Roberts

Also for the spindle end you need some new Male Push-Fit studs as well (M8 x 1mm Fine thread), I *think* I have lots of these, I can send you some with the correct thread type, I may also have enough hose I can send as well :), later I will be going to the workshop I will make a video for you of how its all working...

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Power supply:

• I asked one of the sellers about the pictures showing a lower wattage power supply than required, I was assured the matching supply would arrive with the spindle and the pictures are just recycled from other sales.
• Are different VFD's supplied? If so, which ones are better?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

I've got 3 of the generic 2.2kW Chinese VFDs and they all work fine. I know plenty of other people who have used them without problems.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobiwan

Here's some useful setup information for Haunyang VFD that I've collected and collated whilst on my internet travels.

NOTE: Always check these settings are applicable to your Haunyang VFD as there have been some design variances over the years.

VFD Manual:
Attachment 8314

General VFD setup:
Here's the correct settings for the Huanyang VFD that always seems to come with these kits.[/FONT]

PD013 - 8 MASTER RESET <<< DO THIS FIRST [Jonathan Edit: I prefer not to input this reset command, as often they've set a lot of the settings for you, so it saves time to leave it and you'll spot any settings that are wrong when you set the rest, so there's no risk]
PD005 - 400
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 1.20
PD008 - 220
PD009 - 15
PD011 - 120 [Jonathan Edit: No, this is a common misconception. This setting is the lower frequency limit, so setting it to 120Hz means you can't run the spindle below 7200rpm, which originated from the air cooled spindles which would burn out below this speed. This is not a problem with water cooling, so you can set it to zero. You wont get much torque below 7200rpm, but down to about 3200rpm is useable for drilling small holes in aluminum if you don't have carbide drills.]
PD014 - 1 [Jonathan Edit: This is time to accelerate to rated speed. It may be better not to set it as low as 1 second (e.g. 2) to reduce the starting current, or if you don't appreciate the lights dimming every time you press run.]
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000, factory setting is 1440 ->3000 gives correct RPM of 24000 at 400hz

Control Settings:
For spindle Start/Stop using Mach controlled relay connect DCM to FOR with the relay wired between the two. NOTE: Wiring DCM to REV will give reverse spindle rotation.

For variable speed control using a 10k ohm pot connect ACM and 10v to the pot with IV on the Wiper.

PD001 - 0 = Start from VFD Panel(Manual control), 1 = Control from inputs(use if Mach is start/stopping your spindle as explained above)
PD044 - 2
PD045 - 3

Spindle end wiring diagram:
(Pins are numerically marked on the inside of the plug, check by taking the 3 hex bolts out the spindle top cap. Whilst your in there take a ground from pin 4 to one of the 3 bolts inside that holds the bearing cap)
Attachment 8313

VFD end wiring diagram:
Live = R, Neutral = T, Earth = E.
Attachment 8312

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Water Pump:

• The pump commonly supplied by the motor sellers to go with the spindle appears to commonly be a 4000l/h, 4m head pump that looks like a converted pond pump. Cost ~£65 (inc. p&p)
• Do we know the actual pumping requirements of the motor?

For example:

Energy absorbed (J/s) = Mass (Kg/s) * specific heat capacity of water * change in temperature (K)

Q = m * c * DeltaT

(assuming the entire power of the motor is converted to heat = 2.2W = 2200J/sec)
(assume the difference in temperature achieved is 15deg Kelvin (or Celsius, doesn't matter)

2200 = Mass(Kg/s) * 4200 * 15

Mass(Kg/s) = 2200 / 63000

Mass(Kg/s) = 0.0349206

(convert to litres per hour. NB: 1litre = 1kg)

l/hour = 0.0349206 * 60 * 60

l/hour = 126

This would be the required flow rate for a temperature difference of 15 degrees from room temp to spindle temp assuming the spindle dumped 2.2Kw of power straight into the water. BUT bear in mind there are some big assumptions throughout this, it's going to be affected by the heat exchange from motor to water, radiator efficiency, pumping pressure requirements, the efficiency of the motor, etc.

If anyone else can add to this, theoretically or with practical observations, we can start to see what pumping requirements the motor actually has. A 4000l/h pond pump equivelant could be massive overkill and instead a computer water cooling pump could be used? Far less power consumption, less space taken up, more reliable for the same money as UK version can be bought.

• What pumps do other people run? What temperatures do you see with these setups?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

These spindle are pretty efficient as they're induction motors, so they don't require much water to cool them effectively. The main thing is to get a pump with enough 'head' so that it can lift the water high enough to get up the pipes. A fraction of a litre per minute is probably plenty for most people, especially since the vast majority of things will never draw anywhere near the rated power of the spindle. Your calculation is fine except the assumption of dissipating 2.2kW is not reasonable. The spindle is probably about 95% efficient at full load, so maybe 110W ---> 6.3l/hour for 15° rise. You shouldn't need to spend more than about £20 on a pump, for example:
SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP 2200 L/H AQUARIUM FISH TANK POND GARDEN 56W NEW UK AP5100 | eBay

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingcreaky

For any newbies like me reading this; dont worry too much about cooling. especially to start with. For example mine can run happily for say an hour without getting even remotely luke warm.. obviously if you plan on getting out of the box and doing some hardcore pocketing in ali then dont take my advice. But for those of you like me who have just built the machine and trying to get it all working. The cooling is just another complication you dont need.

I bought a cheap 12v caravan pump off ebay for £10 brand new. Ive been told not to worry about flow rate just to ensure there is a flow of water. The caravan pump can pump 10ft high in 1/4" hose without breaking a sweat.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee Roberts

Normally the generic pump they send has a 1/2" BSPT thread for the out let with a barb type connection for those 8x5 hose, however you can swap it like mine for one of these:

Male Stud: Male Stud Pneumatic Push-In Fitting For Air Sizes 4, 6, 8, 10, 12mm BPST, Metric
- For 6x4 hose you need to order the 6mm push-in x 1/2" BSPT thread version.

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Radiator:

• Where do people source their radiators from?
• What size / specification?
• Are radiators needed?
• Do people use fans or just use them passively?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

I don't have one, just a reasonable size reservoir is enough... so passive cooling.

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Cable:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

CY 4-core cable, 0.75mm^2 or greater. Connect earth wire to spindle body and VFD. Also connect shielding just at VFD end.

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Cooling Tubing:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

Just need cheap PVC tubing, 8mm if I recall correctly. Plenty of it on eBay.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee Roberts

I can look at mine later and show you with pics, but its usually 8x5mm hoses 5m, however 5m isn't really enough you need at least 10m I would say, also 8x5mm is bigger than you need, the stuff they send is quite stiff so isn't very flexible, I swapped mine for something like 6x4 clear tube (clear so you can see the flow) I think it was.

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Coolant

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee Roberts

Any type of tank really with 15ltr or over capacity is fine, but keep it black (non transparent) so no day light can get in, then you use some Deionised Water and Antifreeze to make the coolant:

DEIONISED WATER: Deionised Water 10 LITRE (2x 5L) | (De Mineralised/De Ionised/Not Distilled) L
ANTIFREEZE & COOLANT: BLUE ANTIFREEZE & COOLANT | 10 LITRE | -37 ºC | High Concentrate/Longlife | 10L

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Collets:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

Get a set off eBay in china. They're plenty good enough for these spindles as although the runout with these collets is slightly greater then high quality ones, the spindle runout is greater than the difference so it makes virtually no difference. Make sure the spindle you get is ER20, not anything smaller, otherwise you can't use 1/2" cutters which are common for wood router bits.

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Links:

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General Advice:


[Jonathan:
- It's best to use distilled water for the coolant so you don't cover the inside of the spindle in calcium carbonate. Also put something in it to prevent algae growing, like anti-freeze, or just keep it in a dark box.
- Always clean the collet, collet nut, and spindle tapered bore thoroughly before putting the tool in, otherwise pieces of swarf can be squashed between them which will make the runout worse over time.
- If the water cooling gets blocked then compressed air can clear it and you can dissolve the deposits by pumping water with NaHCO3 (bicarbonate of soda) dissolved in it through the spindle.
- Don't bother with the air cooled spindles since they limit you to only using fairly high speeds due to the lack of cooling.]

Hopefully some questions can be answered and maybe shed some light on this voodoo


Husky :)

Set this thread to a sticky for you Husky.

.Me

This thread has some good internal pics and info
Water cooled Chinese spindle disassembly - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!

And this one has cross sections
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/tool-t...tion-view.html

You might want to add a section to cover recommended cabling, tubing and collets.

This one is cheaper.
As far as I can see it's just luck with the bearings. The sellers on ali-express will discuss them however, so it's possible to get better ones but you do pay for it. I got my spindle from the eBay seller 'solar.jean', which was the cheapest at the time with best offer saving about £20. Turns out it has 4 bearings (H7005C TN1-2RZ and 7002CTYN) and the two big ones are a matched pair with the V markings on the outer rings, so it looks like I got lucky. Bear in mind however that was a couple of years ago, and someone on the forum got one from the same seller a week after me and received a presumably different model as his didn't have any writing on the side.

Power supply: I've got 3 of the generic 2.2kW chionese VFDs and they all work fine. I know plenty of other people who have used them without problems.

Water pump: These spindle are pretty efficient as they're induction motors, so they don't require much water to cool them effectively. The main thing is to get a pump with enough 'head' so that it can lift the water high enough to get up the pipes. A fraction of a litre per minute is probably plenty for most people, especially since the vast majority of things will never draw anywhere near the rated power of the spindle. Your calculation is fine except the assumption of dissipating 2.2kW is not reasonable. The spindle is probably about 95% efficient at full load, so maybe 110W ---> 6.3l/hour for 15° rise. You shouldn't need to spend more than about £20 on a pump, for example:
SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP 2200 L/H AQUARIUM FISH TANK POND GARDEN 56W NEW UK AP5100 | eBay

Radiator: I don't have one, just a reasonable size reservoir is enough... so passive cooling.

Cable: CY 4-core cable, 0.75mm^2 or greater. Connect earth wire to spindle body and VFD. Also connect shielding just at VFD end.

Tubing: Just need cheap PVC tubing, 8mm if I recall correctly. Plenty of it on eBay.

Collets: Get a set off eBay in china. They're plenty good enough for these spindles as although the runout with these collets is slightly greater then high quality ones, the spindle runout is greater than the difference so it makes virtually no difference. Make sure the spindle you get is ER20, not anything smaller, otherwise you can't use 1/2" cutters which are common for wood router bits.

Updated the OP :)

Here's some useful setup information for Haunyang VFD that I've collected and collated whilst on my internet travels.

NOTE: Always check these settings are applicable to your Haunyang VFD as there have been some design variances over the years.

VFD Manual:
Attachment 8314

General VFD setup:
Here's the correct settings for the Huanyang VFD that always seems to come with these kits.

PD013 - 8 MASTER RESET <<< DO THIS FIRST
PD005 - 400
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 1.20
PD008 - 220
PD009 - 15
PD011 - 120
PD014 - 1
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000, factory setting is 1440 ->3000 gives correct RPM of 24000 at 400hz

Control Settings:
For spindle Start/Stop using Mach controlled relay connect DCM to FOR with the relay wired between the two. NOTE: Wiring DCM to REV will give reverse spindle rotation.

For variable speed control using a 10k ohm pot connect ACM and 10v to the pot with IV on the Wiper.

PD001 - 0 = Start from VFD Panel(Manual control), 1 = Control from inputs(use if Mach is start/stopping your spindle as explained above)
PD044 - 2
PD045 - 3

Spindle end wiring diagram:
(Pins are numerically marked on the inside of the plug, check by taking the 3 hex bolts out the spindle top cap. Whilst your in there take a ground from pin 4 to one of the 3 bolts inside that holds the bearing cap)
Attachment 8313

VFD end wiring diagram:
Live = R, Neutral = T, Earth = E.
Attachment 8312

Quick note:

Its a bit of a crap shoot with the cheapest VFD suppliers. Sometimes you get decent bearings, sometimes less so. Sometimes you only get 2 bearings, sometimes 4. Main problem is the quality control with the Haunyang VFD. Some last years, others are dead straight out the box or only last a short while. If your unlucky and get a faulty one don't bother trying your luck again by replacing it with another Haunyang, get an Hitachi X200 VFD instead. These are pretty much faultless.

These chinese spindles might all look the same but there are quality differences so paying more might not be a bad thing. If you want cheap as possible you usually get what you pay for and you'll be taking pot luck. Problem is how to guarantee a decent unit? Well I bought this.

Spindle Motor 3 Phase 2.2KW Water cooled ER20 with Matching VFD

Its tested and comes with decent bearings and 4 of 'em instead of 2. You also get a UK warranty should anything go wrong! Downside is its about £100 more than the cheapest chinese one's but it does remove all the question marks.

For any newbies like me reading this; dont worry too much about cooling. especially to start with. For example mine can run happily for say an hour without getting even remotely luke warm.. obviously if you plan on getting out of the box and doing some hardcore pocketing in ali then dont take my advice. But for those of you like me who have just built the machine and trying to get it all working. The cooling is just another complication you dont need.

I bought a cheap 12v caravan pump off ebay for £10 brand new. Ive been told not to worry about flow rate just to ensure there is a flow of water. The caravan pump can pump 10ft high in 1/4" hose without breaking a sweat.

Added all the info into the OP. Thanks!!

I've added a few bits to the OP, including some suggested amendments to the VFD settings. I will be posting more on that subject soon as there may be a way of getting more torque from the spindle at low speed.

I searched for these spindles and now I'm so confused...

solar.jean states on a few of his listings "FOUR BEARING"; first written only on the listing image for a spindle alone with "Japanese Imported Bearing" and second only in the listing title for the £252 spindle+VFD with "Germany Imported Bearing"

As I buy the ballscrews from linearmotionbearings2008 I saw that he also sells spindles which are far more expensive (£353). As I asked him if he can justify the higher price, he only made a "best special price" which is still £36 higher. The only important difference in the description is that he claim to professionally test them before shipping.

Now my dilemma comes from the fact that he already sold 54 of them at this very high price. And 54 are a lot!

I even read somewhere on the forums that the German bearings are actually made by a Chinese company named "German" :devilish: and the Japanese ones are top brands but that specific model number is supplied only to China.

I'd buy from Chi. He's consistent and a decent chap. If things go wrong he usually fixes it. Solar Jean has been known to disappear off the face of the earth if you email with questions and especially if you want to claim on the warranty.

Both have only few negative and neutral feedback, and solar.jean mostly for $1 "Nail Art 3D Sticker" lol

Yes, I know Chai is way more consistent and professional. I read a lot of good things about him. Could this be the only reason for selling a lot of spindles at 40% higher price?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulus.v

Could this be the only reason for selling a lot of spindles at 40% higher price?

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The other reason is someone called JazzCNC keeps advising people to buy them from him. My opinion is just get the cheapest one since the differences between them, if you can even tell a difference, are bound to be negligible and I know plenty of people who've bought from other sellers and haven't reported problems. Mine, which was the cheapest I could find at the time, was from solar.jean and it turns out it has Chinese bearings, but they are marked as a match pair so that's pretty good. It also has 4 bearings not 3. He probably sells all sorts though, so don't expect that to mean you'll get one the same.

This Chinese spindle thing is an expensive lottery (for me at least). If you get a spindle manufactured on Friday or during a football game you may have the AC bearings put in the same direction not face to face or even fewer as designed...

Think you'll find Solar Jean sells crap spindles as well as good one's. Its pot luck. Loads of complaints about that seller on CNCZone never heard anyone complaining about the one's chai sells. I think Jazz does right recommending Chai to folks since they've got enough headaches with the logistics of DIY CNC.

Didn't Solar Jean steal money off you Jonathan when you bought those drives and never got them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulus.v

This Chinese spindle thing is an expensive lottery (for me at least). If you get a spindle manufactured on Friday or during a football game you may have the AC bearings put in the same direction not face to face or even fewer as designed...

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For £36 when your spending £250+ its nothing to have something tested and I know Chai does his best to get his from the better sources in China.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobiwan

Didn't Solar Jean steal money off you Jonathan when you bought those drives and never got them?

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No, different seller.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobiwan

I know Chai does his best to get his from the better sources in China.

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How do you know? If it's just based on his word, then of course he's going to say that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobiwan

For £36 when your spending £250+ its nothing to have something tested and I know Chai does his best to get his from the better sources in China.

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When I asked Chai to justify the higher price he didn't gave me any argument, only a better price. Could it be just a lack of selling technique?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

How do you know? If it's just based on his word, then of course he's going to say that.

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When you say you make decent parts I'm taking you on your word. Of course you think you do but can you prove it? Well yes you can, I only need go ask people you've done jobs for or sold services to.

Same principle with Chai. Plenty of happy customers and very hard to find complaints.

At the end of the day its your money, spend it how you will. I've been bitten from not researching exhaustively and being too trusting. Now I'd sooner spend that bit more and go with someone who has a good rep. Take it or leave it I ain't justifying it any more than that!

Can't comment on the 2.2Kw water cooled spindles as although i have a few I have never looked into them.

However when Ketan at ARC was looking at the air cooled range he carries he bought about 6 which we ran and also stripped to see what the differences were.

Basically 4 of the vendors were lying thru their teeth about what was actually inside them, all the lies were about what bearings were fitted.

The two remaining vendors did have genuine high grade German bearings fitted and there was virtually no difference in their products.

I see no reason why the water cooled spindles do not follow this same pattern. Personally if i was in the market for one I'd go with Chai.

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!! When I looked in February they were around £250-£280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

Thanks
Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyC38

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!! When I looked in February they were around £250-£280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

Thanks
Mike

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Ive been looking the same as you and Ive decided to go for the air cooled ones because its a gamble where ever you get them because you cannot see the bearings without breaking the warranty seal, Just like john said, chai Is great and ive bought plenty of other stuff from him in the past but i may take a gamble on this

NEW UPDATE 3KW AIR COOLED/ER20 GERMANY BEARING SPINDLE MOTOR AND MATCHING INVERTER-in Machine Tool Spindle from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

Rick

It's clear that we have good evidence to expect to receive a good spindle from Chai, but to me that's not reason enough to spend at least 36 extra on one. The only part I've heard of having problems is the spindle bearings, in particular using relatively cheap Chinese bearings and installing them incorrectly.

Lower quality bearings:

• We don't know if Chai uses 'good' bearings or not.
• They're likely to not last as long as high grade bearings, but apart from that I doubt you will notice a difference. They may run at a very slightly higher temperature, or have marginally lower run-out, but for the vast majority of people that is a negligible error. If you really need very low runout, then spend the extra 150-200 ish and get a better quality spindle from Aliexpress.com as that will be far better than the former, even if you get lucky.

Incorrect bearing installation:

• This is clearly bad, but if you notice it before it's too late then it's not difficult to change the bearings round. These spindles are surprisingly easy to dismantle.
• I can only find evidence of a spindle with 3 bearings being assembled incorrectly. Therefore if you get a 4 bearing spindle, which is a good idea anyway, then we can expect it to be assembled correctly. The 4 bearing spindles use 4 angular contact bearings, with the front pair both one way and the top pair the opposite way, placing the shaft in tension.

So overall, yes spending the extra money does give you peace of mind, but if you compare that to the probability of getting a bad one from other sellers it's surely worth 'risking' it. Also you can get the spindles a little cheaper than the standard eBay price if you use aliexpress and perhaps more importantly their payment system is such that the seller only gets your money when the item has arrived and you say it's good. That's pretty good leverage when trying to get a bad product replaced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyC38

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!!

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Remember to search worldwide - if you tick UK only the prices are silly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardoco

Ive been looking the same as you and Ive decided to go for the air cooled ones because its a gamble where ever you get them because you cannot see the bearings without breaking the warranty seal

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Don't - you can't use very low speeds with the air cooled ones, otherwise they overheat. They're also going to be much noisier, which will add to the total noise when cutting. Also what's to suggest the bearings in an air cooled one will be any better?
I've never seen a warranty seal on one, but equally I wouldn't recommend dismantling one just for kicks...since knowing which bearings you have doesn't really change how you use it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

Don't - you can't use very low speeds with the air cooled ones, otherwise they overheat. They're also going to be much noisier, which will add to the total noise when cutting. Also what's to suggest the bearings in an air cooled one will be any better?
I've never seen a warranty seal on one, but equally I wouldn't recommend dismantling one just for kicks...since knowing which bearings you have doesn't really change how you use it.

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Hi Jonathan, well I think there have been changes since the first square ones came out.

I spent the day with a friend and he was cutting most of the day with his square one, it is noisey ill give you that, but not as noisey as i thought it was going to be, as for not being able to cut at lower speeds, his one was an 18000rpm model and he ran that all day at 8500rpm and yes it got hot but nothing to speak of.

As i said, like the round ones, things have come a long way since they came out.

He killed two square ones and a round one in 2011 and he has had this square one since may 2012 so something has changed and its not his supplier, admittedly he dosnt run it 8hrs at a time but 4-5hrs a day is not unusual, I understand that none of these spindles (square or round)runs well at low speeds because the lack of torque at lower speeds is prohibitive, so ive had to make a decision based on what ive seen, if there are round spindles out there in that price bracket (including mount,pump, tank, piping, and inverter of course) that can be seen working then point me to it ill have a look. My friends one has a warranty seal on it, must be the supplier used.
As you say it is a gamble, because its so far away, you could get anything. Ive actually asked for a price with ceramic bearings, on both the square and the round.

Rick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John S

Personally if i was in the market for one I'd go with Chai.

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I think i'll do the same, if i get a lemon it wont be great.

I would have thought we would all be looking for ceramic bearings anyway in these, just wondering if we should start advising to go for the cheap ones and then upgrade to ac ceramic bearings anyway? or do ceramic bearings cost to much for that?

EDIT: Best price i can see for a 7005 ceramic angular contact is around the £100 mark lol.

.Me

Ceramic is a buzz word.
Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John S

Ceramic is a buzz word.
Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?

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How could anyone argue with something put so elequently... Cheers John:glee:

Rick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John S

Ceramic is a buzz word.
Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?

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lol indeed, point taken !

.Me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyC38

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!! When I looked in February they were around £250-£280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

Thanks
Mike

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Dunno why the price has more than doubled on ebay but that now makes the 3kw spindle setup cheaper at £400

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Originally Posted by r0bsk1

Dunno why the price has more than doubled on ebay but that now makes the 3kw spindle setup cheaper at £400

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Don't forget you also have to pay the electric bill, needlessly burning an extra 800watts adds up...

I'm not sure exactly where the sweet spot is with cnc machines, perhaps someone that has a few years experience has being moitoring their leccy bill but in school/college IT centres when you do the figures the electric bill works out as being more expensive over the lifetime of the machine than the capital cost of the computers.

They've tripled the price beacuse........

"We are sorry that because this item is now out of stock in UK, so we rise the price."

Will the lower price return when you have stocks in the UK?

"Yes, once this item can be available in UK, we will lower the price as before."

I asked solar.jean if all his 2.2kw spindles are the same model/making and he confirmed "yes,that's right,all is same mode and same factory" and he added "we sell the products as total amount of USD374 (price+freight)".

No matter if you bid for the Japanese bearings or the German ones you will get the same product from him.
Possible to be the same seller from Aliexpress with the lowest price (note the Japanese and German bearings mentioned in the same listing).

Chai sells spindles manufactured by Jiesite and Jean the ones made by Huajiang. Both located in the Changzhou city. In my opinion both companies produces the "cheapest" Chinese spindles Jiesite is the only spindle manufacturer/trader on Alibaba who does not provide information about the bearings used. Huajiang has a made-in-china account where the P4 bearing grade is listed only for the 3 and 4.5kw models.

Jiesite seems to be a smaller and younger company with better quality control compared to Huajiang. They also have some interesting tips for spindle use. Here follows the most interesting one:

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During storage and transport of the spindle, the status of high-speed grease inside the bearing will change. The user shall run it at a low speed first by starting from the lowest speed of the spindle for 30 minutes and then 20 minutes for every 3000 rounds; otherwise there will have abnormal sound, noise, heat and other phenomena, which will affect the bearing life if the spindle is started directly at a high speed. During long term storage, the spindle shall run (at low speed) for 15~30 minutes once a week at least.

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None of the Chinese manufacturers claim to use import bearings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by D.C.

Don't forget you also have to pay the electric bill, needlessly burning an extra 800watts adds up...

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Just because your car has a 100hp engine, doesn't mean it's going to use 100hp worth of fuel all the time....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r0bsk1

They've tripled the price beacuse........

"We are sorry that because this item is now out of stock in UK, so we rise the price."

Will the lower price return when you have stocks in the UK?

"Yes, once this item can be available in UK, we will lower the price as before."

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Thanks r0bsk1 for getting the answer to this. I'll just have to wait and till the supply situation improves.

Kind Regards
Mike

I was just about to buy one too so ive also asked for an ETA on UK stock

Is it possible to have Mach control the speed of the spindle, I've not used the new spindle yet so I'm not sure if its possible :)

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Philly

Is it possible to have Mach control the speed of the spindle, I've not used the new spindle yet so I'm not sure if its possible :)

Thanks

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Yes you can and should and its not hard to achieve either, there are several threads on the forum that give better instructions than i could, but i never looked back once i had spindle speed control.

Rick

Cheers, will go look now. I cant imagine not sitting around the machine waiting to change speed or turn the spindle on/off. Should be fun! :)

Try this http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/router...-rs-485-a.html