New build with recycled parts on a ridiculous budget 120cm*60cm work area

I keep forgetting.. did you plan on using separate 5v psu or power it from usb?

If using psu then it looks tight to get that connected there as well...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

I keep forgetting.. did you plan on using separate 5v psu or power it from usb?

If using psu then it looks tight to get that connected there as well...

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The BOB is powered by usb, need to get 12v PSU in there yet ;) If I'm reading the BOB properly it can only be powered by USB unless you solder your own connections. If you have the same BOB get your male to male usb cable now ;) although you can hack something together at a push I originally powered it up with a hacked 4 pin molex (Hard disk power cable) to USB.

I hope the AM882 is a straight swap for the AM882h as I used the broken one as pattern for setting up whilst I'm waiting for the new one.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

The BOB is powered by usb, need to get 12v PSU in there yet ;) If I'm reading the BOB properly it can only be powered by USB unless you solder your own connections. If you have the same BOB get your male to male usb cable now ;) although you can hack something together at a push I originally powered it up with a hacked 4 pin molex (Hard disk power cable) to USB.

I hope the AM882 is a straight swap for the AM882h as I used the broken one as pattern for setting up whilst I'm waiting for the new one.

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Omg what have I missed now!!
I thought you could supply it with 5v on the connections you connected to the drivers... have you tried that? :D

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Omg what have I missed now!!
I thought you could supply it with 5v on the connections you connected to the drivers... have you tried that? :D

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You need 5v + 12-24v for this bob the 5v can be supplied by the usb or by the bottom right hand terminals marked 5v PC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

You need 5v + 12-24v for this bob the 5v can be supplied by the usb or by the bottom right hand terminals marked 5v PC

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Yeah that's what I thought but Mr desert seems to say something else? :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

You need 5v + 12-24v for this bob the 5v can be supplied by the usb or by the bottom right hand terminals marked 5v PC

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I have them connected to the dir/pulse +'s for the AM882's is this correct? 5v coming in from usb.

Attachment 23244

All I need to do is supply the AM882's 5v+ to both these pins? It wouldn't matter where it came from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

I have them connected to the dir/pulse +'s for the AM882's is this correct? 5v coming in from usb.

Attachment 23244

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Looks exemplary ;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

Short answer - no!

Longer answer - the AM882 use an open-collector output. Think of it as being a normally-open switch that closes when there is a fault (like a stall). What you can do is wire them all in parallel and then to the BOB input. I do this with the EM806 on my machine and it works fine.

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I'm not sure about the AM882s, but with the software you can configure the EM806 so the fault output is active when ok (i.e. switched on), and goes inactive on fault (i.e. open circuit). That's how I configured my EM drives, which would allow you to loop through all the fault outputs and create a failsafe circuit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Yeah that's what I thought but Mr desert seems to say something else? :)

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Yes but Mr Desert has not got it working yet:devilish:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m_c

I'm not sure about the AM882s, but with the software you can configure the EM806 so the fault output is active when ok (i.e. switched on), and goes inactive on fault (i.e. open circuit). That's how I configured my EM drives, which would allow you to loop through all the fault outputs and create a failsafe circuit.

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You are probably right about the AM882 also being software-configurable, but it looks as if getting a cable to be able to reprogramme the 882 and making all the configuration software work is another can of worms (judging by the experience of other people). I know it shouldn't be, but I didn't need to use the fine-tune facilities available through software and could manage with just the DIP switch options, so I chose not to change the factory setting for the alarm. That way I avoided any need to play with the configuration software. My thinking in this case was that normally you would be a bit more paranoid about NC connections, but here all the connections are hard-wired inside the box and so rather more reliable than anything going via plugs and sockets and around the machine itself.

Your recommendation is the better one; I chose to use a very slightly inferior option, and one that would be easier for the OP to use. Connecting in the fault outputs at all is a big leap forwards!

For the avoidance of doubt I use AM882's on the router, they are programmable with the RJ11 socket on the end.

You can make a lead up from an old phone then chop the end off and fit a D9 plug on using just 3 wires. Then use a USB to D9 adaptor to connect the RJ11 lead to the PC.Attachment 23247

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

Short answer - no!

I do this with the EM806 on my machine and it works fine.

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Sorry to jump in on this thread Neale would the wires from the EM806's go to the E stop on the BOB?

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Originally Posted by phill05

Sorry to jump in on this thread Neale would the wires from the EM806's go to the E stop on the BOB?

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That's how I have it setup the black cables are the stall protection
Attachment 23253

Powered on today ;) can't test it because I took the Z axis plate off and it's still with engineering firm although ready to collect Monday.

Its getting close now :D

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Carry on,you are close now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phill05

Sorry to jump in on this thread Neale would the wires from the EM806's go to the E stop on the BOB?

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May sound daft but actually, I don't know! I use a CSMIO-IP/M, partly because it includes BOB-style functionality (i.e. it provides plenty of input and output connections, and doesn't need a separate BOB). One of these inputs can be defined as something like "servo fault", and the hardware is set up to stop all motion immediately if this signal occurs. That means that Mach3 doesn't get involved directly, so I haven't had to define an input in Mach3 for it. I'm sure that someone out there knows the answer as this is a very common setup, it's just not the particular one I use. This is also why it was very easy for me to use the factory-default "NO" rather than "NC" on the drivers.

If you reconfigure the 882/806 using the software configuration tool so that the fault outputs are now "NC", then you should be able to wire them in series with the e-stop switches and take them to the e-stop input on your BOB. However, I haven't tried this myself, although it's what I would investigate doing if I were in your position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phill05

Sorry to jump in on this thread Neale would the wires from the EM806's go to the E stop on the BOB?

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It depends on your controller.
If you configure them NC, and your e-stop kills power to the drives, then you need someway to override the fault outputs in order to activate the e-stop relay, so the drives can power up, and activate the fault outputs to complete the e-stop loop, at which point the override can be disabled. If you run them NO, then to have them as part of the e-stop loop, you'd need to use the outputs to control a NC relay, so when the output activates, it powers the relay and breaks the E-stop circuit.

I'm aware the CS units have some kind of fault input, which although not part of the e-stop circuit, will disable things in the event of a fault being triggered, and is capable of ignoring the fault signal during reset, so things can be reset/powered up without having to override the fault signal.

Me personally, as I'm using a KFlop, I just have the fault outputs going to standard inputs. I've programmed the KFlop to continually monitor those inputs, and in the event of a fault, the KFlop disables everything, halts the software, and displays a message to tell me why everything has just ground to a halt.

I know some people just rely on Mach to handle faults, however I personally would never rely on Mach to handle critical faults.

I was going to to wire the stall protection to the estop on the BOB. Then I'll wire the physical estops to a contactor and the PSU and spindle to the contactor.

Originally was going to use a latched relay but I think a contactor will do as all my estops will be the twist to release type.

Not got my Stop's yet they're still on a conveyor belt but after xmas it's being scrapped and I'm having all 4 stops off the machine ;)

They have NO and NC contacts on all of them.

I need to work hardwoods with the machine, Predominately Oak, Walnut and Mahogany. I'm hoping it's strong enough.

I am planning to swap the gantry over to shortest span (Unless I have 0 issues with flex in which case I will keep it this way as it makes loading the router easier.). Originally I was going to have SBR25 on the bottom which is why I made the gantry the longest span with the hiwin's but since that has changed to Hiwin's all round I need to buy another ballscrew 1400mmm to swap it over.

I thought though it'd be best to use it for a bit to decide if when I do buy a new ballscrew if I should just change all 3 ballscrews to 1610's instead and upgrade the 2nm nema's to 3nm ones at the same time.

I've also been toying with when I swap the gantry over buying another set of 1500mm 15mm clone hiwins and having 2 rails per side on the bottom axis. Then making new plates all round and increasing the Z travel to 35cm! This would mean some serious rebuilding which I wonder if it's worth it at some point in makes more sense to build a new steel framed router then upgrade the old aluminium one.

Hahaha :D

Just try your first one before building a new.
Find the "weak" spots and plan a solution or upgrade..
Might be that you are satisfied with the one you got? ;)

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That's the plan, but I have a project that needs the extra Z travel I should have 12cm now but to get any more I need to rebuild it as the gantry height is the limiting factor. I'm going to use my machine for this project if I find the Z travel to be a limiting factor then I will have to sort it. I have a few ideas how to carve it up so I can get away with 10cm travel but until I start carving I won't really know what I need lol.

The next month or 2 is learning how to cut with it and then tests cuts, I have no illusions the more complicated stuff I want to do is going to take me months to work out how to make lol. The woods are very expensive to work on so lots of test cuts and scale models first ;)

What I have no idea is what bits to use to mill the woods, was planning to use 2 flute router cutters for the roughing and ballnose end mills to smooth off.

What I really need is a 5th axis and 40cm of Z but that's not happening but I can dream ;)

Wow :D

My mind is more limited.
I can't for the life of me come up with a project that requires a 5th axis :)

Well.. if I were to start building engines and stuff maybe..

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Wow :D

My mind is more limited.
I can't for the life of me come up with a project that requires a 5th axis :)

Well.. if I were to start building engines and stuff maybe..

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What sort of things do you want to make with your router?

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

What sort of things do you want to make with your router?

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I foresee alot of signs in the beginning. Wood and lit up acrylic ones.
As I learn feeds and speeds for my machine I plan on doing boxes, cabinettes, giftpackages and such.
I'm just doing a hobbymachine, should I come up with a sellable product it would be awesome :)


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Attachment 23258 that's with input voltage 252v today so happy with that ;)

Added 2 shelf brackets and setup the monitor, keyboard and mouse in a comfortable standing up position.Attachment 23259

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_u5ov-9cc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB8hWiRiVI

Need to set the jumpers yet on the drivers so the Z axis motor was running hot lol need to setup them up tomorrow and going to try setting the bottom axis up need to work out how to set linuxcnc up for 2 motors for the 1 axis.

Then homing of course, come on AM882 I'm ready for you now and machine is itching to get cutting'

Back's killing me today so not a lot is going to happen but did pick the spindle mount and Z axis plate up ready to refit I now should have the full 13cm Z travel I originally planned.

Attachment 23265

Trying to work out how to setup the bottom axis something to do with joints in the .hal file I think or .ini

my 12v PSU came fits perfectly in the bottom right corner (White box) and fitted another barrier terminal for power in, have the current limited thermistor as well will get that hooked this evening.

Attachment 23271

Where's my AM882 Mr Postman starting to wish I'd ordered EM806 instead but thought I might as well stick with AM882's all round and was 1/2 the price for what appears to be identical driver.

The current limiter thermistor came so hooked it up and turned on the PSU came one OK although need to test it with load of course.

Now need to wire it through the mcb type b then through the resistor and to the transformer and see if it works ok, now we get to see if I got the right one lol was quite confusing which one to get.

Attachment 23281

Can't do a lot more until the last AM882 comes although getting it to move the dual ballscrew axis would be good, have got the fan holes drilled now.

Got the MCB hooked up and the current limit thermistor and it all works perfectly ;)

MCB 6amp type b, trips without the thermistor doesn't trip with it. PSU appears to be running fine have to wait for the AM882 to come so I can test it under load but should be fine. The resistor is rated to 5amp once it's up to temp.

Is there any point adding a slow fuse as well now I have working MCB type b protection?

The 12v PSU doesn't go through the MCB only the toroidal transformer.

Attachment 23286

This is the correct current limited thermistor for a 1kva toroidal transformer

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-NTC-10D...72.m2749.l2649

If anyone else is interested.

I notice when you turn the transformer off the AM882 stay lit for about 5 seconds and when you test the capacitors when you've turned it off they're ready 7v's so it's good to know the capacitors are mostly discharged by the AM882's at switch off although I might still add a resistor.

Nice work with the thermistor!

Just have one question.. do you still know where all those cables go :D
Lots of connections in a very small space ;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Nice work with the thermistor!

Just have one question.. do you still know where all those cables go :D
Lots of connections in a very small space ;)

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The Nema's are wired in at moment which makes it a little more crazy, they need to be unwired and will go through the top of the box just above each driver through glands. The limit switches will travel through the wiring conduit which ends where they need to be, the 12v feed will travel through there before going to the BOB. The fan feeds I will run directly on the inside of the box.

It's confusing but it's a million times better than it was lol, can't finish the box until the last driver comes as I need access to the back of the plate to bolt it in. 21st day since I ordered it grrr, it was sent Epacket which is 10 days tops normally bloody Xmas, bahh humbug.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

The Nema's are wired in at moment which makes it a little more crazy, they need to be unwired and will go through the top of the box just above each driver through glands. The limit switches will travel through the wiring conduit which ends where they need to be, the 12v feed will travel through there before going to the BOB. The fan feeds I will run directly on the inside of the box.

It's confusing but it's a million times better than it was lol, can't finish the box until the last driver comes as I need access to the back of the plate to bolt it in. 21st day since I ordered it grrr, it was sent Epacket which is 10 days tops normally bloody Xmas, bahh humbug.

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Just wait till I start wiring :D
Will need to mark everything to know what goes where!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Just wait till I start wiring :D
Will need to mark everything to know what goes where!

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It's not as bad as you think because by the time you have it wired you'll know every pin on that board better than you know the back of your hand lol.

The biggest pain is getting all the limit switches, Estop & 4 stall protection gnd's into the 1 socket that 1 wire barely fits it lol you also have to get 5 inputs into the Estop if you have stall protection. You also need to run 8 wires to your 5v on the BOB.

I have no idea what they are called but they are a godsend, look just under the BOB and on a bit of DIN rail I have those connectors. I found them in a scrap control box we have in the yard, the cable conduit was recovered as well with the din rail.

I see others on here using them maybe they can link you to what they're called they make the job a lot lot easier.

I thought about that problem to!
Going to use wago connectors. Love them! At least the wago 222, not al that fond of the 221. Don't think the spring is as good!

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https://www.ametherm.com/inrush-curr...h-current.html

This is where I found the info on the thermistor, I then checked the spec out on the part number for a 1kva transformer and sourced an equiv EU solution as it was £15 surcharge for ordering US stock from Farnell then there delivery charge for a sub £1 thermistor lol I bought 2 for £2 delivered.

Mine has a continuous current ratings of 5amp, I wonder what would happen if it tried to draw more than 5amp I assume it would fail due to overheating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Is there any point adding a slow fuse as well now I have working MCB type b protection?

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I don't think so. The MCB should trip after a sustained overload, i.e. at something like twice the rated current, they should both trip within a minute (roughly). The B curve/C curve thing is about how much of a short-duration overload they can take to cope with switch-on surge and so on. That's not so different from a slow-blow fuse, so the only reason for fitting a fuse as well is in case the MCB doesn't work. How much should you trust safety devices? My machine has a couple of fuses on the PSU (commercial item) and one of those blew once. The PSU was operating well within its rating; it was just that the fuse was tired and didn't want to play any more. I'm not sure that I don't trust the MCB more than the fuse, but I don't have much experience of them in this kind of situation. On the other hand, all your house wiring is probably protected by a bunch of MCBs, so the people who make the rules trust them.

Mr Postman arrived with a package from China for me can be only one thing ;)

Won't be back at work till 1pm but shouldn't take long to fit it, test it. Then drill the box and fit grommets for the nema's, limit switches, mains input & spindle output's, fit the box, fit the plate in the box and finally fir the wiring to the board lol. Hoping to get it all done today then tomorrow, get a sheet of mdf for the bed and start configuring the machine. Be nice to get the bed milled flat and vacuum holes drilled over the weekend.

I have a a few things I would like to build out before the end of the year and I'm starting to believe I might just get at least some of them built ;) Not long now.

e2a was my AM882 in the post dropped it on the machine and tested it works fine ;) I know have 4 moving axis and my Y axis is linked up. Took me some head scratching in Linuxcnc and editing the .hal and .ini files probably click a button in Mach 3 lol.

Tomorrow I can get the box finished and start with homing.

Long time coming but finally she moves using the AM882's and the Toroidal PSU from linuxcnc ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH7ISQcmeUM

At the moment I auto tuned the steppers (Hopefully, flick the SW4 switch on/off/on with rotation knob in 0 position) and set microstepping to 2 just to get it working but will get it set it properly next couple of days.)

What microstepping do others use for their AM882's? I was thinking X16.

Must feel amazing :D
What's going into the cutter first?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Must feel amazing :D
What's going into the cutter first?

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MDF bed ;)

Attachment 23295

With 16mm holes in it, I have 16mm plastic plugs, 1000's of them so I can block off the holes as needed. Then going to use a vacuum cleaner for now but will upgrade to a vac pump and use a couple of air tanks for extra capacity. Clamping would do my head in, although I may still need to clamp lol.

Then have a play with some scrap wood before I start cutting expensive stuff lol, also want to check out how much flex I have in the middle so will try cutting hard woods in the centre