Thor, or should that be Zeus?

Ah, braking resistors. Even on my 4KW spindle, I keep getting issues where when I stop the spindle, my VFD goes into overvolt trip. Pain in the ass. Anyone have a view on what size resistor I need for the Hyanyang VFD for this spindle?

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chaz

Ah, braking resistors. Even on my 4KW spindle, I keep getting issues where when I stop the spindle, my VFD goes into overvolt trip. Pain in the ass. Anyone have a view on what size resistor I need for the Hyanyang VFD for this spindle?

Thanks

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Is there not some setting in the vfd to ramp the speed down say over about 4 secs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Is there not some setting in the vfd to ramp the speed down say over about 4 secs

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Ive tried that. All settings, unless I put it on something like a 40 seconds rampdown, it trips.

Download a manual for a decent brand of VFD, which actually lists braking resistor sizes, and see what they recommend for a similar sized VFD/Motor combination.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m_c

Download a manual for a decent brand of VFD, which actually lists braking resistor sizes, and see what they recommend for a similar sized VFD/Motor combination.

---

Thanks, will try that.

Some research done. Seems the Chinese VFDs dont come with the internal circuitry to use a braking resistor. Will need to clarify that first.

From what I can tell, values are between 30 - 70 Ohm and around 300W.

totally not jealous.... :barbershop_quartet_

Serious machine you have there Chaz. You must be chuffed!

Nice machine
I have hsd 919 on my machine. I run from single phase using a dual stage vfd. 220 in 380 out.
Stops in3 second no problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

Nice machine
I have hsd 919 on my machine. I run from single phase using a dual stage vfd. 220 in 380 out.
Stops in3 second no problem

---

Thanks

Please tell me more about this VFD? Make and model please. Does it output 380v?

My machine has been running about 2 years using huanyang gt series. Il have to find exact model number. The only downside- no braking resistor relay as standard- its special order- but only £5. Also must be modified to run modbus ( I've done this)

I have what seems to be better made "copy" of the same unit here on test too. Has braking interface and is modbus compatible from the factory- even though they don't supply modbus instructions- took me a week to work out how to talk to it. ( I can share the info)
220 single in 380 out.
On my machine running had 919 spindle I rarely see more than 5 amp current draw from the main supply.,
Ecogoo 9100-00750-G-B
While they have a max current draw of 34 amp mine is still working as I originally wired it for test from a 13a plug.

Ecogoo can be found on aliexpress. Delivery was free and only took a few days to arrive. Just checked price at ££251 today
That's the one I'd recommend

Here's a video of mine running. On hy vfd.
I set the vfd to show current
https://youtu.be/C_xe_VP0_ps

I know voltage increasing VFDs do exist, but I can't see anything on either the Huanyang or Ecogoo sites/manuals about those VFDs being able to boost voltages.

You can run 380V three phase motors from single phase using 230V single phase, however once you reach a certain frequency (roughly 2/3 of max rated frequency IIRC), the power available becomes voltage limited. Above that speed you can't get full power, as the voltage isn't high enough to overcome the back emf and drive the required current through the windings, so the available torque drops of as speed increases.
Inverters Direct (aka Drives Direct) supply 230 to 380V VFDs. I did look into them and they are a commercial make (I did have the make/model, but can't find it) with lots of Drives Direct stickers on them. The non-rebadged inverters are available cheaper, but I suspect Drives Direct are doing some internal modifications to boost the input voltage.

The easiest way to achieve it, would be a 250 to 380V step up transformer, big bridge rectifier, and bank of suitable capacitors, and feed the resulting 540VDC direct into the inverters DC bus. That way you bypass the VFDs own rectifier circuits (you could feed the 380V single phase directly in, however you risk overloading the VFDs internal rectifier circuit, and overheating the internal smoothing capacitors due to the increased ripple from only having a single phase supply).
The other option, which is what I suspect Drives Direct are doing, is using a suitable oscillator circuit and inductors to do the boosting, as it would result in a far more compact system.

I'd like to get my hands on a Drives Direct VFD to see just exactly what they are doing, but I'm not willing to pay their prices, and I don't think anybody who has bought one, would be willing to let me dismantle it to have a look.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m_c

I know voltage increasing VFDs do exist, but I can't see anything on either the Huanyang or Ecogoo sites/manuals about those VFDs being able to boost voltages.

You can run 380V three phase motors from single phase using 230V single phase, however once you reach a certain frequency (roughly 2/3 of max rated frequency IIRC), the power available becomes voltage limited. Above that speed you can't get full power, as the voltage isn't high enough to overcome the back emf and drive the required current through the windings, so the available torque drops of as speed increases.
Inverters Direct (aka Drives Direct) supply 230 to 380V VFDs. I did look into them and they are a commercial make (I did have the make/model, but can't find it) with lots of Drives Direct stickers on them. The non-rebadged inverters are available cheaper, but I suspect Drives Direct are doing some internal modifications to boost the input voltage.

The easiest way to achieve it, would be a 250 to 380V step up transformer, big bridge rectifier, and bank of suitable capacitors, and feed the resulting 540VDC direct into the inverters DC bus. That way you bypass the VFDs own rectifier circuits (you could feed the 380V single phase directly in, however you risk overloading the VFDs internal rectifier circuit, and overheating the internal smoothing capacitors due to the increased ripple from only having a single phase supply).
The other option, which is what I suspect Drives Direct are doing, is using a suitable oscillator circuit and inductors to do the boosting, as it would result in a far more compact system.

I'd like to get my hands on a Drives Direct VFD to see just exactly what they are doing, but I'm not willing to pay their prices, and I don't think anybody who has bought one, would be willing to let me dismantle it to have a look.

---

Thanks both. I did speak to them, for my application they want £4K for one that can deal with a VFD hanging on it. I didnt buy ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m_c

I know voltage increasing VFDs do exist, but I can't see anything on either the Huanyang or Ecogoo sites/manuals about those VFDs being able to boost voltages.

You can run 380V three phase motors from single phase using 230V single phase, however once you reach a certain frequency (roughly 2/3 of max rated frequency IIRC), the power available becomes voltage limited. Above that speed you can't get full power, as the voltage isn't high enough to overcome the back emf and drive the required current through the windings, so the available torque drops of as speed increases.
Inverters Direct (aka Drives Direct) supply 230 to 380V VFDs. I did look into them and they are a commercial make (I did have the make/model, but can't find it) with lots of Drives Direct stickers on them. The non-rebadged inverters are available cheaper, but I suspect Drives Direct are doing some internal modifications to boost the input voltage.

The easiest way to achieve it, would be a 250 to 380V step up transformer, big bridge rectifier, and bank of suitable capacitors, and feed the resulting 540VDC direct into the inverters DC bus. That way you bypass the VFDs own rectifier circuits (you could feed the 380V single phase directly in, however you risk overloading the VFDs internal rectifier circuit, and overheating the internal smoothing capacitors due to the increased ripple from only having a single phase supply).
The other option, which is what I suspect Drives Direct are doing, is using a suitable oscillator circuit and inductors to do the boosting, as it would result in a far more compact system.

I'd like to get my hands on a Drives Direct VFD to see just exactly what they are doing, but I'm not willing to pay their prices, and I don't think anybody who has bought one, would be willing to let me dismantle it to have a look.

---

No need- its all done in the dual stage vfds i have! perfect 380v. under £400 so why mess about. i have them running hsd spindles and a big hydrovane in my workshop for over 2 years now. i test all spindles i sell using the newer ecogoo 9100 :-)
its the only one that can output to the frequencies i require - standard up to 650 hz and special order to 800hz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

No need- its all done in the dual stage vfds i have! perfect 380v. under £400 so why mess about. i have them running hsd spindles and a big hydrovane in my workshop for over 2 years now. i test all spindles i sell using the newer ecogoo 9100 :-)
its the only one that can output to the frequencies i require - standard up to 650 hz and special order to 800hz

---

Finally found a link to the inverters on Aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VFD-...836555598.html)
And the full range can be found on ecogoo website at http://www.ecogoo.com.cn/product-category/220-380
There seems to a bit inconsistency with their model numbers though, but if you get the model number for the size of inverter you'd like on the ecogoo site, searching for it on aliexpress narrows the results.

Some do seem to need derated though. The 7.5KW mentions on the aliexpress listing that it's only suitable for up to 5.5KW motors.

I might get one to try on my big mill, as that's next on the retro list.

Same one?

http://www.ecogoo.com.cn/product/7-5...80v-output-vfd

This looks like the one that will work ...

Which I believe is this - BG part number.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...136e968adao0Ns

I'm interested in this as my lathe currently runs from an inverter from an outfit that took an ABB inverter (380-380) and fiddled with it. This outfit, no longer in business, seem to have put some kind of voltage-doubler circuitry on the input. The inverter is excellent, but the problem is that the input circuitry cannot handle heavier loads and there is too much ripple so that the inverter trips out. It's a 5HP (4KW or so) inverter driving a 3HP motor so that bit is well within its ratings.

I keep wondering about finding a suitable 240-380V transformer as per m_c's suggestion but these don't come cheap. So the Ecogoo inverters look interesting, but I'm not sure what the performance would be like at 50Hz as I'm running a conventional 50Hz motor. The motor isn't suitable for rewiring for 240V, unfortunately.

i run a heavy load 380v 4kw hydrovane off one- at 50hz. 3 second start up- coast to stop (doesnt like to try to slow down a hydrovane- as they stop near instant when power comes off . it draws just over 30 amp to start it - but drops to 6.9 running it. - so at 380v 50hz they perform well. at 220v i doubt the motor would start at all .
every machine in my workshop is industrial- and they all run off seperate vfds .
if anyone buys the ecogoo 9100 and needs to run modbus- i wrote instructions as they are non existant in the manual!

That sounds good - should suit a lathe where start-up loads are smaller. I don't need the variable speed as the lathe has a continuously-variable pulley system anyway, but I suspect that this is a fairly big load in itself at higher speeds. I'll look more closely at the Ecogoo boxes. Thanks for the pointer.

this is exact model on ali express. add note that it must have braking circuit plus english instructions
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VFD-...999.262.6Xz3iF

mine arrived in 3 days! was well impressed.
as explained to charl on the phone- i think this is a very small new business- they are selling cheaper than hy. - electronics look well made etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

I'm interested in this as my lathe currently runs from an inverter from an outfit that took an ABB inverter (380-380) and fiddled with it. This outfit, no longer in business, seem to have put some kind of voltage-doubler circuitry on the input. The inverter is excellent, but the problem is that the input circuitry cannot handle heavier loads and there is too much ripple so that the inverter trips out. It's a 5HP (4KW or so) inverter driving a 3HP motor so that bit is well within its ratings.

I keep wondering about finding a suitable 240-380V transformer as per m_c's suggestion but these don't come cheap. So the Ecogoo inverters look interesting, but I'm not sure what the performance would be like at 50Hz as I'm running a conventional 50Hz motor. The motor isn't suitable for rewiring for 240V, unfortunately.

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the ecogoo is vector control- so gives great low down torque. - i drill 20mm diameter at 4000 rpm on my 24000 rpm spindle- never once stalled it.
also- for lathe you can use the 8 step preset speeds if required- so no need for variable control. and most induction motors are good for up to 75 hz with no problems- so you can up the frequency and get more speed at the same lower gearing.
with vfds running at lower rpm is where the current rises and creates more heat- then you have to force the motor with air cooling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

i run a heavy load 380v 4kw hydrovane off one- at 50hz. 3 second start up- coast to stop (doesnt like to try to slow down a hydrovane- as they stop near instant when power comes off . it draws just over 30 amp to start it - but drops to 6.9 running it. - so at 380v 50hz they perform well. at 220v i doubt the motor would start at all .
every machine in my workshop is industrial- and they all run off seperate vfds .
if anyone buys the ecogoo 9100 and needs to run modbus- i wrote instructions as they are non existant in the manual!

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I think Ill order one, just checking to see what my bonus was for last year (paid next week, yay). Do you have one spare by any chance that I could buy?

i only have my spare here- which i keep for testing - and in case of failure on any of my machines. they didnt take long to arrive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

i only have my spare here- which i keep for testing - and in case of failure on any of my machines. they didnt take long to arrive

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Ok, thanks.

order a braking resistor too 50 ohm 300 watt ( ecogoo stock them around £30)

About to pull the trigger on one of these VFDs. Also very keen to get a Hydrovane. You mentioned a 4KW unit, what model is that?

What current single phase do you have, powering the HSD spindle and the Hydrovane?

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

i only have my spare here- which i keep for testing - and in case of failure on any of my machines. they didnt take long to arrive

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Hi,

Do you think this would work?

https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/from-...F&trstct=pol_9

How close to 50Ohm must it be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

order a braking resistor too 50 ohm 300 watt ( ecogoo stock them around £30)

---

So, ordered, lets see how long it all takes. I was told I needed a 1000W 50 Ohm resistor, so went for that. Should provide adequate braking for my spindle.

hydrovane pulls 30 amp for about a second on startup- then drops to 7amp running. hsd never pulls more than 8 amp even when really heavy cutting. - averages around 3a

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

hydrovane pulls 30 amp for about a second on startup- then drops to 7amp running. hsd never pulls more than 8 amp even when really heavy cutting. - averages around 3a

---

Thanks. Out of interest, how much 220V Current do you feed to each one? 32A or more?

hydrovane is wired into the back of a socket on 32a ring main , hsd is still just ran off a 13 amp plug!
my workshop supply is 60 amp- but that runs lights etc too . the lights will dim briefly when the hydrovane starts up .
but- if it allows me to use big boy stuff from single phase i can cope with that.
ps. hydrovane was set as instant off- ie no deceleration- as it definately didnt like that!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by battwell

hydrovane is wired into the back of a socket on 32a ring main , hsd is still just ran off a 13 amp plug!
my workshop supply is 60 amp- but that runs lights etc too . the lights will dim briefly when the hydrovane starts up .
but- if it allows me to use big boy stuff from single phase i can cope with that.
ps. hydrovane was set as instant off- ie no deceleration- as it definately didnt like that!

---

Perfect, thanks. I'm running 32A, could probably go up to 60A if needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by battwell

hydrovane is wired into the back of a socket on 32a ring main , hsd is still just ran off a 13 amp plug!
my workshop supply is 60 amp- but that runs lights etc too . the lights will dim briefly when the hydrovane starts up .
but- if it allows me to use big boy stuff from single phase i can cope with that.
ps. hydrovane was set as instant off- ie no deceleration- as it definately didnt like that!

---

Ordered last week, was told it would be sent via DHL but now been sent via EMS. Problem is that the EMS tracking number shows no info yet John (supplier) says not to worry, 6-10 delivery.

Should I be concerned?

Thanks

i think he sent the ones ive had by ems. turned up very quickly- within a week
use 17track to track the parcel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

i think he sent the ones ive had by ems. turned up very quickly- within a week
use 17track to track the parcel

---

Just checked mine via 17track, number not recognised. Did you deal with John directly? I have him on skype. I'm currently threatening to cancel the order as there is no proof this has actually been sent, despite his assurances that it has.

I've had tracking numbers that don't get recognised before, so I wouldn't worry yet.

DHL China seem to produce a bizarre tracking number that doesn't get recognised by DHL, yet it'll be the tracking number on the parcel, and EMS stuff will often get re-numbered once it reaches the destination country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m_c

I've had tracking numbers that don't get recognised before, so I wouldn't worry yet.

DHL China seem to produce a bizarre tracking number that doesn't get recognised by DHL, yet it'll be the tracking number on the parcel, and EMS stuff will often get re-numbered once it reaches the destination country.

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Thanks, no sure what the point is then with respect to providing a tracking number, to track my parcel, that doesnt allow me, to track. Bizarre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chaz

Just checked mine via 17track, number not recognised. Did you deal with John directly? I have him on skype. I'm currently threatening to cancel the order as there is no proof this has actually been sent, despite his assurances that it has.

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yes i dealt with john. i have had a lot of drives from him- they have always arrived.
maybe being made to order etc? i know a special i ordered took around a week to test/dispatch.
give it a week . - you wont find these cheaper anywhere else. i know tracking via china is a bit hit n miss. did you purchase via aliexpress?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

yes i dealt with john. i have had a lot of drives from him- they have always arrived.
maybe being made to order etc? i know a special i ordered took around a week to test/dispatch.
give it a week . - you wont find these cheaper anywhere else. i know tracking via china is a bit hit n miss. did you purchase via aliexpress?

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Hi, no, directly via him, he sent me a proforma, I paid via Paypal. This was due to the resistor not being listed anywhere, so this was 'custom' however the VFD is standard. Will give it this week and see what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chaz

Hi, no, directly via him, he sent me a proforma, I paid via Paypal. This was due to the resistor not being listed anywhere, so this was 'custom' however the VFD is standard. Will give it this week and see what happens.

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could be as simple as the huge braking resistor you have ordered wasnt in stock. (i buy mine on ebay)