90mm in verticalQuote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
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90mm in verticalQuote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
Hmm I'm at this stage myself but I was thinking about drilling through the bottom extrusion and use tee nuts in the upper extrusion and cap head screws with washers to fill out the t slots. Then use the holes I drilled to tighten the screws. What do you all say about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
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The way I described has been done and tested many times. So why change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Well the way I described was just the way that felt most logical to me.. read a few build logs but didn't grasp that everyone was going the way you described :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
This is perfect! Now I have something to think about tonight hehe
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Hi Nick,
As per your pm:
Your requirements are to cut wood, guitar bodies, and occasional aluminium.
The L shaped gantry in a pair of 90x45 extrusions has been used many times on this forum and will cut your requirements as above. At 900 mm gantry width it is starting to get a bit wide, but I would say still OK.
The raised X axis can also use 90x45 extrusion so long as there are plenty of supporting uprights connecting it back to the main bed.
Would this be good enough or should you use steel? Well, I would say you are OK to use aluminium profile on the gantry and the X axis and still cut the requirements above. If however you want to do regular aluminium cutting then I would upgrade the raised X axis sides to steel.
Here are some aluminium gantry, steel sided machines:
Attachment 22667
Attachment 22668
You wanted to use profile to avoid using epoxy leveling - well I've not found the profile extrusion to be particularly level and flat. You can buy specially machined profile, but regular stuff is not likely to be flat. If you don't want to epoxy level you can always shim the rails manually, but need a master straight edge to compare to.
Your project is going well !
Congrats !
I have some positive news..
Mostly ... In most-all alu designs/builds I have seen, little to no serious alu cutting has been done.
BUT..
You can later upgrade the machine stiffness, pretty easily, imho.
If You do need to, that is.
It will be perfectly feasible to drill/ream a few dowel pins, through clamped flats into the alu, and fix steel flats onto the sides of any beams.
And You can even fix them mostly by gluing .. if You use industrial epoxy glues.
And yes, they are strong enough, and no, they wont reduce rigidity.
As-is, I would not give any advice.
You have a pretty good path, and it is likely to work out very well for wood.
And with suitable parameters it will likely do some alu, with hsm toolpaths and smallish cutters.
But rigidity-needed is related to machine work-envelope size, esp. free-length ie the working length of your beam.
900 mm is pretty big.
A mechmate at 1200 mm beam is pretty close, and they are a near-professional tool, in steel, heavy and expensive to build.
In a nutshell;
looks good.
Likely to give great results in wood.
Well done.
Keep going.
If You need to, *anything* can always be upgraded.
Thank you and all the other guys for taking the time to reply to my questions here at the thread and at my pms also, it is a priceless feeling to know that people who do not know you, suport you this way!Quote:
Originally Posted by routercnc
Hi there.Quote:
Originally Posted by hanermo2
Thanks for the positive feedback.
So if I understand right you suggest to screw or glue, in the future, pieces of steel on one side of aluminum extrusions for rigidity purpose? That sounds as a good plan!
I place the order for the aluminium extrusions, it seems that something starts to happen with this build. :-)
Except for the higher noise level between air cooled VFD spindles vs water cooled spindles, is there another reason why not to take a 2.2kW Chinese aircooled VFD spindle? I found one aircooled with four bearings, shipped from Europe and the price looks good, to me.
I will post the link tomorrow when I get back home.
The only reason I know is that if you want to run it at a low speed say 7K then the fan will not put as much air across the spindle so could possibly heat up. But for me a WC one is a no brainer:hopelessness:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
Thanks for the input, I hope I didn't open a can of worms with my question. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Maybe this way the conection between the two extrution is more rigid , because the bolts run all the leght of the upper extrution and not just hold it with the lower one only from the base,just a thought....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
I am thinking to make the base of X axe support plate 300mm, is it ok or too much?
I quess that to find the length of the ballscrew for x axis etc, I have to substract the legth of baseplate from the legth of the rail,right?
Attachment 22703
So 1200mm for Xaxis subtract 300 =900mm for balscrew plus f plus space for the end support bearings bk and bf.
Small update.
I send an email to Fred, BST Automation, about the cost of the rails ballscrew and a VFD spindle asking for quote.
The price he offer is good but the shipping cost from China to Greece is very high ,324$ :grief:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
300mm is more than enough.
Yes, although there is no real harm in having a slightly longer ball screw travel than the machine travel of course if it helps you in locating motors/bearing mounts. The only downside is possibly slightly more expense and a slightly lower critical speed if you get a screw longer than needed.
I was very happy with the TBI and HIWIN stuff I got from aliexpress, all machined to my own specs. Haven't used it in anger yet of course so can't fully comment but quality appears top notch, was most impressed with the ballscrew machining as it was done to an impeccable standard. The seller was this guy https://www.aliexpress.com/store/278...4b24ae2bMdgpHS although you just want to email them for a full quote rather than buy the individual parts from the store. I dealt with a guy called "John" (I doubt it lol) who was very helpful... his email was just john "at" topper-hz.com and you then pay through a special order on aliexpress so you benefit from the payment protections there.
Worth a quote perhaps. They do all the c3/c5 ground or c7 rolled.. just ask for what you need. They offer their own brand stuff too which is much cheaper but I can't comment on the quality too much... I got a couple of small c5 12mm ground ball screws and they seem ok. Not as smooth as the TBI stuff out of the box but I haven't really looked any closer at them yet as they are for a future project.
Shipping is always going to a be a bit expensive when you are shipping a lot of heavy and large items half way around the world, but if the price is good enough to begin with then that's the trade off! Shipping for me (4 x 16mm screws, 2 x 12mm screws, 2 big 25mm rails, some 20mm rails, lots of carriages and motor mounts, bearing mounts etc came to about $240 via fedex.
Thanks for the input, I will also check the store you suggest at Aliexpress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy
The big problem about shipping cost is that the custom here add the shipping cost to the value of the order and then apply 24% taxes!:thumbdown:
So the ballscrew I am going to order, lets say for the X, long axis ,is going to be 900mm plus smth, maybe 950mm?
What is the minimum the support plates legth can be, so I can have a rigid gantry?
Sorry for keep asking about something that seems obvius to some guys here but it is the first time I buld or put an order for ballscrews etc.
I also have great problems with shipping and taxes. 25% in Sweden ;) I usually hope, pray and do strange voodoo when ordering to make the post / customs to overlook my shipment ;)
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250-300mm will give you a very solid mounting... Given it's a fairly large machine I wouldn't try to save space too much.
Size depends on what motor mounts/bearing mounts/couplings you are using. Don't just guess! Do you know what mounts and bearing arrangements you are using yet?
You may find some creative accounting on invoices.
That seems like a good plan! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Attachment 22714
This may be of use - its the technical drawing I made when ordering my screws. The dimensions are suitable for an FK12 angular contact on the motor end and an ff12 floating bearing on the other end.
OK then, I will keep 300mm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy
The ballscrews are those ,1605 at different length for Y and Z and for X I am going for 2020.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...5ce5139enWFCJy
As for motor mounting I am going for the typical all seller have for nema 23, for now and upgrate later.
I am about to pull the trigger and buy the ballscrews, rails and spindle.
Carriage 2 X BLH 20-L900mm linear guideway +4pcs BLH20N Narrow Linear
Carriage 2 X BLH 20-L1200mm linear guideway +4pcs BLH20N Narrow Linear
Carriage 2 X BLH 20-L400mm linear guideway +4pcs BLH20N Narrow Linear
ballscrews Anti Backlash Ballscrew RM1610 -L900mm with SFU1610 Ballnut +BK12 BF12 Support Unit + 1610
Nut Bracket + 6.35*10mm coupler1 X Anti Backlash
Ballscrews 2x SFE 2020 Rolled Ball screw L 1200mm with SFE2020 ballnut + BK15 BF15 Ballscrew Support block + 8mm to 12mm coupler
Ballscrew RM1610 -L400mm with SFU1610 Ballnut + BK12 BF12 Support Unit + 1610 Nut Bracket + 6.35*10mm
coupler
I will use ratio at all screws to lower the screw speed for cutting aluminium.
For spindle I am going for this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...5bdadf47BsiI9F
for stepper motors I am going for Nema23 4NM ,this will be the next thing to order.
If anyone is willing to double check for mistakes,I will highly appreciate that.
Any opinions are welcome!
The spindle you have link to seems to have 3 bearings this one has 4 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2KW-WATE...8AAOSw-W5Us1mz
Thanks Clive.
I am stressed about the ballscrew and rails order and didn't give much attention to this detail, see I do not want to spent money to something that won't do the job. :)
The one you link has the colets also....
I will ask Fred to machine the ballscrew ends to be 30mm .
Is the ratio for all axis a good solutions or it gives more trouble?
Nick time for a reality check. First you appear to be using direct couplings from the motor to the screws and then you use the above statement which to me it appears you want to use a belts and pulleys .Quote:
I will use ratio at all screws to lower the screw speed for cutting aluminium.
Re the list of the screws. Not sure why you need 2010 screws. Generally the screws don't need to be as long as the rails.
Have you done a full cad drawing to show how they will fit? You are going to spend a lot of money and certainly don't want a mistake.
The 30mm you mentioned is the F length of the screw ie just the bit that the coupling or pulley will fit on.
Thanks again for the reply Clive.
My mistake about the coupling, I do not know why I put them in the order.
I will go for pulleys and belts for space reduction, vibrations ,torgue speed change and everything else you guys have analyze here so many times, lol.
I was thinking 20 balscrew for not wiping at critical speed because of length at x axis (1200 mm) ....Am I thinking right?
I remember that,we discuss it also with Zeefleeboy but at BST Automation there is a photo that show that the length at the description is the total length.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Did I misunderstand something, maybe I have to check with Fred from BST.
Attachment 22719
OK when you quote for the screw you tell him the total length (including the F length) and say what F length you want, the standard is about 15mm but that is not enough so ask for the F length to be 30mm (this is the bit where the pulley will fit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
If you PM me your list I will format it for you so that Fred will understand it. You also have to ask for grease nipples.
I am ready to pull the the treager and place order for the rails and balance. I am thinking to use 1610 for X axis and for Y and 1605 for Z, should I go for 2010 for the long axis 1200? Will I gain something?
X axis is going to have two balscrews and two motors, and I am planing to cut wood and aluminium also!
Nick I run 1610 on my long axis with two motors and 1250mm cutting length on X without problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
I totally missed the grease nippel. Does anyone know where to get some? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
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Thanks Clive, I will order 1610 then!Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Robert you can find those at Fred's store, BST Automation at Aliexpress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Not really an update but I have a good finding that I would like to share.
A friend of mine gave me three of those aluminium beams that he found as reinforcements in a box that had inside a big ladder !
It is like early Christmas, how can I use them at my build ?
First think that came to my mind is to cut the small square tube, the one that is weld perpendicular to the long one and use it as base for the motors and cut longitudinal the long part ,and use it as a support to L beam of Y axis?
Any thoughts ?
Attachment 23033
Attachment 23034
Attachment 23035
Attachment 23036
You know you suffer from DIYmadness when you see a use in every metal part you find :D
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Thanks for the tip. Turns out I had some in my shed, turned out nice :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
Still haven't found any local place to buy suitable lithium grease :(
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Haha,that's true!
Yesterday I spend two hours at customs office to make the papers pay take my balscrews and linear rails.
Everything arrived in good condition and packed very well, Fred and BST Automation appears to be very professional at what they are doing.
Here is a pic of the stuff...
Attachment 23168
I am going to be out of country for two weeks, so I will have plenty of time to design the bench.
50x50 cm is the most easy steel tube bars to find but I know is out of discussion for building a bench, any recommendations about what tubes to use?
Ooh goodies!
Did it arrive in good shape?
So that's why you was stuck in customs.. I thought you had been traveling and suspected of smuggling or something :D
You can build one hell of a bench using 50x50 CM steel ;)
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