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i ain't saving any money lol not when you take into account that i need welding equipment/free standing press drill/new angle grinder/clamps/straight edges :lemo: but on the plus side ill be adding to my new workshop full off tools that will be needed in the future anyway. the frame as it stands in materials is costing me £725 and thats for 90x90x5mm mild steel
any tips on the frame guy's? also have a few question's
1. what welder do you recommend for welding 90x90x5mm steel
2. do you wait until all the frame is together before you drill holes and fill with sand
3. best method used for drilling and tapping for the linear rails
cheers
My 8x4 had roughly 700kg in it , which translates to 800 euros, 100 euros for gas, 60 euros for MIG wire.1 day receiving and cutting the material, about 2 full days of welding it alone by myself. Yes i moved it alone around here. Managed to do it at around 1mm precision or less.
250Amp MIG which cost me around 350 euros and 300e Rage Saw were previous investment, when i decided i will fabricate things. And 500kg welding table / which i made later/
I will charge at least 2000 at the blink of an eye for that job, especially having in mind that i welded it slowly so it's not under stress.
Similar frame will cost more than 2500 in aluminum and will take same amount of time to put together. A week.
My advice is to go 100x100x3mm if you do it at home, as bigger is no good to cut by any means. Best will be if you speak with someone local and design your frame with bigger beams as possible, say 200x200, which will greatly simplify things. You will have to find someone who does metal structures , for them these beams are small in their mind. They may even have some scrap enough to build a house.
was ordering the steel from metals4u.co.uk cut to size, i forgot to ask that question as well so thanks for that boyan, I do not have access to a welding table and i do want to try and keep the cost down so what would you recommend welding the frame on? i was thinking of doing a cheap wooden frame and make sure its level and use a sheet of mdf on top for flatness
I welded it on the floor, using the larger beams themselves for base. Basically the correct way will be to spot weld the outside frame. Then make sure all is straight and knock here and there with the big mallet. Then weld. Then insert inside beams, use scrap or washers to adjust to a tight fit so after welding it does not contract.
Do not worry, first frame ever i welded with stick welder and was welding for first time.
The main thing to understand when welding is very simple but crucial: "You are making a molten pool and moving it around" . All else serves for that to happen, that means you must think only about that, not thinking angles of electrode, this and that. See that pool, maintain it and move it around or up and down. That's it. I believe many welders do think of other stuff than the pool when welding. I am talking about DIY welders like us.
thanks boyan, about the frame do you think i am on the right track with the frame design? i just want to get the design nailed so i can crack on with pricing and getting required tools ect.
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Weld it on as flat a surface as you can.
If I was going to do something like that, I'd be buying a big spirit level to ensure the main frame was set as level as possible to welding, and a big set square for ease of checking things are square during initial setup (I'd also be measuring corner to corner to check squareness after the initial tacks are in place).
If you order metal pre-cut, you may still have to grind it to length, as cut tolerances can be quite big (typically -0mm to + several mm).
As for welder, I'd go for something in the 150-200A range. You won't need that much capacity, but at that rating you shouldn't need to worry about duty cycle. Ideally gas MIG is better, but the cost of gas can mount up if you're using disposable bottles, and the rent on full size bottles is quite costly. There are suppliers where you can buy bottles, but you really need to find one locally, and check to see how much the gas works out to per litre (some of the schemes where you buy bottles don't fill bottles to that high a pressure, so you don't actually get much value for money).
Other option is gasless MIG using flux cored wire, but then you have to deal with flux/slag cleanup afterwards (best way to describe is, is it's pretty much ARC welding, but with a roll of wire instead of rods).
If you don't want the cost of mig I had pretty good success with a cheap Clarke stick welder from machine mart. No gas to buy either. Defiantly get an auto darkening visor though and some decent rods. For a welding table i bought a massive lump of 12mm steel plate from a guy in Telford for about £20. I found welding very satisfying!
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Helpful video: https://youtu.be/Z2B36psoNQ4
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Ps I find it hard to comment on a frame without seeing it in context with the rest of the machine but on the face of it it looks pretty solid
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Thanks guy's. i already had in mind to get plenty of clamps, a large spirit level and large straight square edges so i'm glad i was on the right track.
Reefy, have you tried Nottingham Steel at Colwick, they will cut to size and they are probably cheaper !Quote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
Weld UK at Pinxton have got some heavy duty clamps at £60. I called in in person for one and asked how much they could do two for cash and it was a good discount !
https://www.welduk.com/product/sip-0...rs-angle-clamp
No not tried them mate, i will give them a call tomorrow so thanks for that
Do not try to make all like 2000mm, for example. make it 2003mm but parallel and square. Hence you don't need the pieces to be super precisely cut. You will definitely need a box of washers though, to fill the cracks. Remember that your final epoxy cast below rails will be 40mm wide, and rails are 20mm wide. The ???what was the name of it, the epoxy that lifted to the sides due to attraction will be 3-4mm each side, so basically you will be able to position the rails within that margin of the rest 10mm. hence do the gantry when you have finished and measured your final base frame, not at the same time.
And as you have been told, not bigger stitches than 2 inch at a time and place, and no higher overall temp of the beam than 60C. When you reach that temp, leave to cool before continue.
You will be tempted to hurry, but take your time and do it properly, you are not welding a typical welders job. I would go as far as to say that i will not trust a normal welder to do that job, as the moment i turn my back he will make 2 meter stitch
PS. best is to use hard stop ruler or a contraption to make all exact same distance
Bloody hell i gave them a call and they are almost half cheaper and they are right next to me so that's a bonus. cheers again mateQuote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
cheers mate, How do you know what temperature you are at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
I have laser thermometer, but when it starts to feel too hot to the touch, thats itQuote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
thank you
just ringing up some local places but before i do how much gas do you think ill be using? i have no idea if 10 litres or a thousand litres and i defiantly do not want to run out halfway through lol.
what do you think of this welder
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIG-WELDE...MAAOSwEzxYR~E6
It looks OK, but just be aware that it should not run off a 13A socket.Quote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
As far as gas is concerned, get a cylinder, the disposables will cost a fortune and only last about 20 minutes (if you are lucky). There are two options Rent or Buy, Renting will cost you more and if you buy you can go pub gas or argon welding mix. Pub gas (Carbon dioxide) is cheaper but the proper weld mix gives better results https://www.hobbyweld.co.uk is a good place to look. Don't forget you will also need a regulator and flow meter.
I would also recommend an auto-darkening mask.
You forgot diagonals when looking in the plan view, see here what I mean; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6565-...2425#post52425Quote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
Thank you cropwell i will look more into this.
cheers
Thanks eddy ill add these in :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyCurrent
if only you could get the steel this clean lol, anyways i know i did this all before but ive done a few tweaks but i am a little concerned with the gantry side plates being so wide and because the aluminium gantry beam is pushed to the back it leaves a large space on the flange plates. this is because i was reading about not having the z axis over hanging and to have the gantry side plates in front of the z axis.
I have gone with 100x100x5mm all round for the frame
all plates are 20mm thick aluminium
linear rails 25mm
ballscrews r2010 driven on both sides with nema 23's 4nm and a rotating ball nut due to long 3000mm ballscrews
still thinking for the rest but whats your thoughts?
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is £400 the going rate for 3 meter ballscrews r2010?
noob question here with it being the first time tapping a hole my self if the linear rails holes are 4.5mm what would the tap size be to the aluminium plate its attaching to?
If the holes really are 4.5 mm diameter in the rail they are expecting you to use M4 cap head bolts to allow some adjustment. You need a 3.3 mm drill for the pilot drill, followed by an M4 x 0.7 pitch tap (coarse thread).Quote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
But I would expect a 25 mm rail to use M6 cap heads? If so these would need a 5mm pilot hole then an M6 x 1 pitch tap (coarse thread).
What's with the parquet bed?!
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I didn't think they would be that small, an M4 screw is pretty weedy, there must be lots of them:nightmare:. As a good rule of thumb tap drill size is screw diameter - thread pitch, so for M4 normally 0.5mm pitch would mean a 3.5 mm drill.Quote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
its 4.5mm on the 15mm rails for the z axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by routercnc
thanks again
using keyshot as a quick render and was looking in the wood library and thought this looked quirky lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
Why a coarse thread ?Quote:
Originally Posted by routercnc
Helpful cheers for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
Yes it looks cool! Not such a good idea in reality?! Wish I could afford keyshot, looks amazing. Btw you probably won't need two mounts for the spindle and it will make it harder to align.Quote:
Originally Posted by reefy86
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you can get better results using vray in 3ds max but i can't be bothered to spend hours making materials and setting render up lol. thanks for the heads up on the mount i will remove one of themQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
OK, then either:
pilot 3.3 mm for an M4 x 0.7 (coarse thread)
pilot 3.5 mm for an M4 x 0.5 (fine thread)
In general I would use coarse thread, especially into aluminium. Get a countersink to clean up the hole and get snug fit of the rail onto the plate - snail countersinks are great.
Also, thread lock (the type you can undo) the screw into the hole as the spindle vibration can undo them.
thanks mate ill take a look at those
is this what you was talking about for thread lock or is it the stuff in a bottle?Quote:
Originally Posted by routercnc
http://www.longlok.com/s.nl/it.A/id.42699/.f
Before he goes and drills the wrong size tapping hole. Metric coarse is M4 x.7 which is the standard metric range. So you need a 3.3 tapping drill.
Sorry, posts crossed having a crappy slow internet today and refresh problems.
Inside the box section I used a length of 6mm flat strap to increase the thread length for the rails; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6565-...4981#post54981
If you are using the epoxy levelling method, don't forget to allow some thread length for that.