Hmmm, the PC parallel port is female - you need to short these out either on the PC port itself, or on the other end of that cable.Quote:
Originally Posted by IhateDoug
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Hmmm, the PC parallel port is female - you need to short these out either on the PC port itself, or on the other end of that cable.Quote:
Originally Posted by IhateDoug
Lights light up in diagnostics as it is I’ll do it at the pc and updateQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
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Nothing happens on the diagnostics screen when press left or right
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Okay, that surprised me.
Can you measure the pin 17 voltage on the parallel port, with respect to gnd (any pin 18 through 25). Again, this is computer-side only.
From the RUN page, slew the X axis left and right (verify with DRO). In one direction you'll get 5V on pin 17, in the other, 0V.
NothingQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
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Actually it won’t let me disable estop, it re-enables it as soon as I exist - I’m disabling estop the selecting ‘apply’ then ‘ok’
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Okay, so the pendulum of blame swings from BOB to PC.
Now that I know that you're happy patching pins on the parallel port, lets test the actual machine.
With all cables/ribbons on the Syil in place, from the DB25 on the machine (not the PC!), ground the X-Axis "Step" pin (pin 7 to pin 25). I'm assuming here that the pin is pulled high on the BOB. At the point that you ground the pin 7 you should get a single step on the x-axis. Continually breaking/making that connection should introduce further steps. The machine isn't going to launch itself - just move microscopically in one direction on the X-axis.
If that's the case then I think you need to look at the parallel port set-up.
I thought it mite of been the pc so I got a new one - the pc is new and the problem remains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
I mite wait till tomorrow for that one - most of my gear is on my houseboat. I’m just rummaging around the shed floor atm so mite wait and go get some proper jumper wires and what not from the boat and do it semi properly tomorrow
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You said in your first post that
you have:
-replaced the pc (was on it way out anyway)
-checked the ports configured
Did you actually checked that the Port Address of your new pc parallel port matches the one you set in Mach3 (0x378)?
Don't know if this as been asked but did you install Mach3 and the parallel port driver or just copy across your old Mach3 folder.?
The Syil X4s were usually fitted with a Tonman BoB, which I also had on my machine. I gave up with the charge pump. It never worked however I set the jumpers and Mach3. Then the BoB just failed for no apparent reason and I had to replace the BoB and the drivers as the drivers were connected by a ribbon cable. All this is in my post http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7658-...down-like-this.
The point is that if you have the Tonman BoB, you might as well bite the bullet and put in a new BoB and drivers.
What OS does the new PC run?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulus.v
Anything newer than Win7, (aka 8.x or 10), and anything 64bit, won't work with the parallel port.
Attachment 26296Quote:
Originally Posted by paulus.v
Is that correct or should it be the ‘com1’ address?
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Windows XP 32Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
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I bought the pc off a computer guy, he set it up with Mach 3 before giving it to me so I’m unsure - in saying that Mach3 shows up in the device manager if that’s an indication of the driver being installed- I mite reinstall Mach 3 just to be sureQuote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
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I’ll read your post later today, any recommendations on what to replace it with?Quote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
Thanks
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Wow. Jazz may have just jumped back in from obscurity to save the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
OP/Mitch. For information. I was playing this morning with an old XP machine that I'd been previously using with Mach3 and an ethernet motion controller. I was having exactly the behaviour that you described during my diatribe yesterday - no response from Mach3 to any of the parallel port settings. Using both a DMM and oscilloscope I could get no joy from the parallel port, even though Mach3 was configured for parallel port interface.
I've now re-installed Mach3, ensuring that I included the parallel port driver. Immediately there's life in the system. I can measure the X-DIR signal alternating between 0 and 3.3V (note, not 5V.... I'd turned the printer port from Bi-Directional to EPP mode in the computer BIOS, in doing so the signal level on the parallel port changed from 5V logic to 3.3V logic).
Ignoring the e-stop (as OP described - it can't be obviously disabled - but you can set the port# to 0 which looks to effectively disable it) - I can short pin 17 to pin 11 (configure that for e.g. X-Home) and confirm on diagnostic page that I can toggle this with left/right control.
To summarise - even though the parallel port may be selected within Mach3, unless you install the parallel port driver - my experience is that you're on a hiding to nothing.
So I uninstalled then reinstalled Mach 3 and installed the parallel driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
When I started Mach 3 and pressed the rest button - the warning appeared that basically says you estop is on - I pressed ok then pressed the reset button again and the warning appeared again.
I then went into ports and pins and and changed the estop from active low.
Then pressed reset again and no warning appeared however the machine still has no life nor does estop in the diagnostics screen
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Let's test that the inputs into the parallel port are being read correctly by Mach3.
Use a jumper to short from pin 25 (GND) to pin 10 - on the PC's parallel port...
Attachment 26297
On the diagnostic page...
Attachment 26298
Move to 25->11
Attachment 26299
25->12:-
Attachment 26300
25->13:-
Attachment 26301
25->15 (NOTE: skip 14 - that's an output!, not input):-
Attachment 26302
Confirm that behaviour then we're confident that the parallel port inputs are able to be monitored by Mach3.
If that works, short the X-DIR pin to one of the inputs, for example I shorted 17 to 13...
Attachment 26303
Now, by using the cursor left/right and verifying the change in the "X Pos" on the diagnostic screen, I can toggle the state of the pin 13 LED. This verifies that the Mach3 X-Axis Direction output can be set correctly by Mach3. Note, I'm ignoring the X-Step signal because this is a very short duration pulse that won't be shown on the LED status on the diagnostic page.
Ignoring the Step signal - which is critical to this, but noting the difficulty in measuring it. If the X-DIR signal and X-Step signal work then the X-Axis of the machine when plugged in should work and should be under user control with the Cursor Keys. If not, then we move to the Syil.
NormalQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
Attachment 26308
10
Attachment 26309
11
Attachment 26310
12
Attachment 26311
13
Attachment 26312
15
Attachment 26313
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The ‘m2Home’ led turns on and offQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
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Right. I'm reasonably happy that the PC/Mach3/Parallel Port is working at least in part. Of interest, we know that all the inputs are working and at least the X-DIR output.
With the machine connected, earlier, you suggested (or I've interpreted) that the E-STOP control had no effect on Mach3. Is this still the case? (check all wiring is present to the BOB and that the supplies are on). Remember, the E-Stop is a latching switch - typically you press to actuate and have to twist to release (apologies if this is teaching you to suck eggs). By pressing/releasing the E-Stop before I understood that there was no controlled setting of the E-Stop signal within Mach3, and that the signal was stuck either ON or OFF, depending on the active low/high setting within Mach3?
Also, from previous results presented here, you say that the E-Stop control results in the change in state on pin 11 on the Syil DB25 connector alternating from 0V to 1V. In any logic system from 3.3V upwards, that's all logic '0' level.
From previous results presented here, you say that measuring the E-Stop control INPUT to the breakout board switches between 0V and 12V depending upon the switch position. So the control works.
There's one conclusion from this - the BOB is not behaving as expected. The signal path from the E-STOP input (from the switch) to the corresponding E-STOP output (to the PC) is not operating as expected. We're now down to checking that the power to the BOB is correct (and you've confirmed that the LEDs LED1/LED2 are illuminated - which makes me believe the power is on the board). What remains is any ancillary controls peculiar to this board or that the board is defective. Or I've missed something.
I'm going to have a ponder (aka wife's demanding lunch).
Now I'm confused. Have a look at the electrical schematic here (Syil X4)
https://www.peu.net/syil/X4_User_Manual.pdf
If the schematic is to be believed, the E-Stop button will only isolate the power to the BOB when active, with the E-Stop input to the BOB wired to ground. Is this true of the actual machine wiring? (I think the OP suggested otherwise).
I’m not sure if this is anything but yes the estop is wired directly to the bob - howeverQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
There are 2 wires that run from the bob to estop -half way along they are inserted into a ‘plug’ then continue onto the estop.
The plug is male and there is its female companion vacant nearby on another board - is this a coincidence or should it be plugged in?
Attachment 26314
So white and red go to bob and the red and blue go to estop button
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Ok just read thru this thread and the fact it was working before moving and no changes made other than new PC then logic dictates the fault is with the PC and the PP port or PP driver. It's certainly the first link in chain that needs to eliminated.
Suggest you go back to basics and start at beginning.
Also some PC's use parallel port cards that are not compatible or work on different address to what's set in mach. Some also only output 3.3v and your BOB could require 5v.
So firstly are you using the PP cable which ran the machine before.? If you have replaced the pp cable it must be a straight thru cable (null modem), pp printer cables are often not and cross over pins so cannot be used.
Next I'd delete and reinstall mach3 and the PP driver with new download using latest driver to elimimate any chance of software corruption. Write down the settings you know worked before deleting.
Re-enter settings in new mach install, don't use the old xml as it could be corrupted.
After this then you can move onto the electrical side. To be honest if not PP Issue then I'd just buy a cheap £5 BOB. This instantly tells you if old one is the issue.
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As I read it, the PC replacement was after the machine was moved and failed. There's a chance something was damaged, disconnected or shorted during the move. Right now with the images I'm not convinced this isn't a FrankenSyil machine.
OP: Are you the first owner of this?
I got the new pc as I thought it mite have been a pc issue - same problem with the original pc.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Have reinstalled Mach3 with driver - I’ll try again + entering settings not XML file.
Also just tried the original cable and no change.
I’ll order a bob now
This worries me a bit. I would NOT plug the connector into the board - from the schematic and the legends on the board I do think that the board terminal is carrying 24VAC for the E-Stop relay, plugging it in could throw 24VAC into the BOB input channels. You've already established that power is present on the BOB which means that the schematic and the E-Stop isolation of the BOB isn't effective (wired).Quote:
Originally Posted by IhateDoug
Not, I bought it second hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
Also I just read the thread that was linked above and seems it’s not a simple task to replace the bob, they don’t make the one I have anymore ?
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7658-...down-like-this
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That board is the spindle board. The connector is the enable and is being used to signal E-stop occured. The pins could just be jumped and it would work.
If your 100% sure BOB is getting signals then start by making sure power is getting to the Bob.
The schematic shows that the E-stop controls a relay which provides 12v to power the BOB and the spindle board. The E-stop on the BOB is just shorted to Gnd and isn't actually used thru a E-Stop button.
This is a simple BOB and should work if provided with power and signals. Nothing else external controls it's functions ie: enable, charge pump etc.
If its getting power/signals and your pin settings are correct then it will work. So if it's not then call it dead and move on.
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Sorry, I know more questions than answers. That board that presents the connector similar to the ESTOP connector - there's three wires - L, N and FG wired up. Is there ANYTHING else wired to that board?
This is really looking like a FrankenSyil machine. That board ("Main Board") is the primary supplies for the rest of the "normal" X4 as well as the 3-phase controller for the brushless spindle motor. None of that appears to be wired. If that's the case, it's not necessarily a bad thing but might help us understand how much of the standard Syil configuration can be ignored. Right now I'm half convinced you can lose that board.
The bob is powered from it - the red wire coming from it goes to the ‘com’ pin on bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
I recall the guy I bought it from saying he installed a different spindle in it if that’s useful info
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I’m guessing there should be a fuse here?
Attachment 26315
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Knowing now that its never worked for you then You need to go back to basics and just get the machine talking to mach3 So it moves the axis.
That board is a spindle board and won't affect anything but the spindle so dont worry about that now.
In it's basic form all you need to get machine moving is to connect drives to Bob and provide power. Limits', e-estop and everything else can be left disconnected.
Then in mach3 just set correct step n direction pins for each drive in motor outputs. You can ignore any input/outputs as they only apply if being used. you will have to toggle estop active high/low so mach resets.
When you have movement then you can start putting the limits etc back into use.
Trying to trouble shoot a machine you know nothing about is like fubbling around in dark. Better to just start again at the beggining.
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Quote:
Trying to trouble shoot a machine you know nothing about is like fubbling around in dark. Better to just start again at the beggining.
Is this like when you are 12 :cower:
Ye and I'm still fubbling around in dark which is very different to fumbling.[emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
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Hey Dean, good to see you back on the forum, hope your keeping well :thumsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Nice to have you back Dean.
Mike
This may be a dumb question, but have you consulted your manual? Or do you still have a copy? If not, there's a copy available here.