I've not watched the video, but could it be for supporting/mounting the way covers on?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
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I've not watched the video, but could it be for supporting/mounting the way covers on?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
No Moray the Fadal doesn't have conventional way cover on the Y-axis ie: telescopic covers. It's a one-piece cover that goes through the saddle Quite neat setup actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
Ok quick update.
I'm still in the process of trying to decide which controller I'm going with. I'm narrowing it down slowly and I think I'm nearly there.?
These are the candidates that are still in the running.?
Linux CNC with Mesa Cards 7i76e + 7i85 which I've already purchased and are currently being played with by Clive (Clive S) testing with AC incremental servo's and closing the loop back to Linux CNC.
Next up are two Chinese industrial controllers both using 2Kw Bus type Absolute Servos. Newker 1000-18i-Mi and Gunt - 350iMa both with C type Subpanel with MPG.
These are interesting to me because I like the idea of an industrial controller without a PC. I also like the idea of Bus type Absolute servos because of the ease of use wiring/setup and servo's always knowing their exact location even after power down so not having to install limit or home switches.
My reservations are both of them are Chinese and I'll be dealing with Chinglish manuals which won't help when it comes to writing ATC macro's and using PLC.
However, I'm used to Chinglish and dealing with Chinese company's and the price is very very good.!
Only downside is I won't be able to use my 4th Axis so I'll probably sell that if take this route.
I was looking at Adtech controllers/servos but I've seen some negative comments from users about lag on 3D toolpaths or on toolpaths like adaptive with high data rates due to slow DNC feeding the code from external cards etc. Also after carefully checking out specs and manuals etc, they are quite limiting in speed at 10mtr/min when really this machine would run closer to 20mtr/min rapids with 2Kw AC motors.
http://newker-cnc.com/index.php?m=co...=165&l=3&id=90
Lastly and new to the running and one that I'm seriously considering using is Puruvesi ET10 controller using UmyCNC software.
This is a company I've only discovered in recent months through helping another member of the forum and after doing a lot of research and reading the manual cover to cover I've become very impressed with it.
The Ethernet controller is very well made and provides both Analog and Step N Dir closed-loop system with more than enough I/O for my needs. It also allows me to mix Step n Dir with Analog so I could keep the 4th axis with an encoder change.
The UmyCNC software is very nice indeed, not so much because of how it looks but for what it allows you to do and the S curve planner it uses. It pretty much allows you to build a system exactly as you'd like it using a mixture of G-code and C++ Macros and PLC. S-curve planners give very nice smooth toolpaths.
The GUI is fully customizable so you can build custom front end if required and it's very Touch screen friendly. (I'm not keen on the profiles provided so I probably will be doing this.!) It's also very flexible regards what computer and OS it will run on, Linux, Windows even Raspberry py's. I'll probably run it on Linux as it's a very stable OS.
The only downside with this setup is that I will have to use Incremental encoders as it doesn't support absolute encoders.
Another BIG plus is the backup and fact hardware and software are both in house. I've already been in touch with Ivan at Puruvesi who has been super helpful with quick replies answering technical questions and offering experienced advice. The support and backup is a big Plus.
I'm also seriously considering switching to there lower ET6 and ET7 models controllers on the routers I build. They have everything I need from a controller, like slaved motors and gantry squaring/homing, probing, built-in camera vision system and tangental knife friendly which is great for some of the plotter type machines I build. Again the S curve planner is also interesting and exciting because they really shine on routers and improve performance massively on 3D toolpaths.
They will also be more than good enough for the Mills I convert and the future plans I have for super-strong Mini Mill I intend building. They are also very plasma orientated which is a bonus and an area I will be looking into more also.
However, as always I'll be thrashing them to death first on a test machine to within an inch of its life before I commit to switching. But to be honest I haven't been this impressed by the Spec of a controller/software for a long long time and after communications, with Ivan, I'm very optimistic it will be a good experience. You can rest assured if it's not you'll hear about that as well.!
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers for the heads-up on the Puruvesi gear, looks interesting & powerful, I await your test results with interest. It might be a minor point but I do like their use of the plug-in connectors; with some of the mating options that people like Phoenix contact offer, there's the possibility of doing some nifty and time-saving stuff.
Yes, it's got a lot of potentials and it's proven in another Fadal machine so I'm very tempted to give it a try. However, I do like the Absolute Servo option so I'm leaning more towards this route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voicecoil
Also to be fair I've got to compare it with Linux CNC in some ways because Mesa cards are very good quality and very well supported. And while I've never used either of them both are a learning curve in both hardware and software. Software support will be a little quicker but I'm in no rush so that's not too important for this Job. Costs, on the other hand, have to be considered and Linux CNC is quite a lot cheaper and offers much the same functionality.
Regards the Phoenix contact they look nice but expensive. Not too impressed with the web site, don't see the point in having a shop if you don't show prices.! Usually, a sign they are too expensive.!
Phoenix seem to sell pretty well all their stuff through distribution, which might explain the lack of pricing. They are more expensive than the Oriental clones, but they also do some useful and time saving variants I've not seen from China such as IDC & spring clamp plugs and "reversed" PCB mounting plugs that enable you to piggyback a PCB onto the header - greater for sorting out signals and transferring them to a more useful connector. Forgive the suggestions but having just spent too long wiring up my control box it occurred to me that if you were making a number of machines with more or less similar control systems there had to be a slightly better way than point to point wiring with screw terminals.
Don't be daft I love knowing about other products so always welcome suggestions or seeing different ways people wire etc. I believe never too old to learn new tricks or experienced enough that you know it all. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Voicecoil
Phoenix are one of the big connector suppliers, in the same market as Molex and Amp, who sell most things through distributors, although I don't think they target the big OEM market in the way that Molex and Amp do.
Dynomotion use Phoenix pluggable screw connectors on their add-on boards, as they're a reasonably common connector that can handle the currents needed for most connections. They also use a dual connection connector, that can be fitted so the wiring is either parallel, or perpendicular to the board. It's a useful feature when space is tight.
However, it's also an additional point of failure. If you put too much pressure on the terminals, it can cause the contacts to open up. I had an intermittent issue with a bank of inputs on a Konnect IO expansion board, and it turned out I'd put to much pressure on the common wire during installation, which had caused the contacts to open up and be intermittent.
Direct screw terminals vs pluggable connectors is a perennial debate, but there are pros and cons to both.
I had the same thing happen to me. Took me 3 days to find the fault.! 10 x 5 router was built and finished and on test, it had been cutting air for 5 hours then it E-stoped. Happened at the same point in code every time.? Turned out to be a connection on the gantry that opened up due to wire pressure and because the Cslabs controller is so sensitive it picked up the loose connection at that exact resonant frequency. Pulled my last follicle of hair out and Virtually re-wired the whole machine.!!Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
I only use Direct screw terminals now.!
Ok well, it's decided I'm going with the Newker New18Mi Bus type Controller with 2Kw absolute Motors and drives.
Attachment 27382
It's a bit of an unknown using this controller and the Bus type controller but I've read the manual cover to cover a good few times and Newker has been helpful answering my questions quickly with good explanations of few things I wasn't sure about. So decided to give them a shot and the price is excellent, which I won't disclose as I promised them I wouldn't because they have done me a bit of a deal so please don't ask.
If it performs as I hope then it should make for a very nice addition to the machine increasing performance and reliability.
Watch this space.!
So what did it cost? ;p
That said, Keen to see a new controller and how it performs. Cant wait ....
You could at least tell us what List Price is.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Drop them a line if you want to know anything. I promised I wouldn't mention pricing and I'm a man of my word so stop asking, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicniner
http://newker-cnc.com/index.php?m=co...=165&l=3&id=90
Haven't heard about these controllers before, some competition to watch out for I guess!
Let us know how it performs.
Hi Ivan,Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan-mycnc
To be honest it was a very close thing between your controller and this. I really liked what your controller offered regards it's hardware and what it would allow me to do with the machine. But if I'm being honest the thing that swayed my choice was the main GUI, I really didn't get on with it in simulation mode.
I found the screen confusing and cluttered with buttons and info I didn't need to see on the main working screen. Likewise things I would like to see where missing or not very obvious. It's not intuitive at all and this really lets it down for me.
I'm used to jumping from software to software using different Control software and hardware all the time and I know the fact that I struggled to gets to grip with it then new users will have a very hard time because it's just not intuitive enough with cluttered screen.
To give an example a forum member and new user to CNC recently posted asking questions about tool changing in Planet CNC controller. Now I've never used this software before but straight away within 2mins, the main screen made sense because it displayed everything I needed and was uncluttered with nice big displays for toolpath and G-code that could be dragged about and sized easily.
All the buttons for often-used functions or custom scripts etc are nicely layout around the edges and all buttons display a short description of what it does when the mouse is held over it. These little things make a big difference to user's experience, esp those who are not using their machines on a daily basis or even weekly basis like many weekend machinists do, so they don't retain what all the buttons, etc do and would spend lot of wasted time refiguring out how to operate your software.
I'm dealing with new users week in week out and I know your software GUI would cause me lots of wasted time answering questions about it because it's just not intuitive enough.
Now please don't take this the wrong way because I'm not pulling down your product and I think the hardware looks very very capable and I am going to try it very soon on my routers, I'm just very busy at the moment so couldn't do it justice.
I hope you take this in the manner it's meant which is feedback, I'm sorry it's negative feedback but hopefully, you can use this and turn it into a positive and improve your GUI because no matter how good the Hardware if the software lets it down then it just doesn't work for me and I know wouldn't for many other users, esp those new to CNC.
Edit: I'm happy to help with feedback or testing regards user experience and I have a lot of experience with dealing with new users so I've got a good insight into what they struggle with. So just ask if this helps.
Hey Jazz, thanks for the reply!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Right off the bat, I just wanted to say that any feedback (especially when it's as reasonable as yours) is always better than no feedback at all, so thank you for taking the time to write out your thoughts. Regarding how intuitive the software is - I absolutely agree with you that a lot of machinists simply do not have the time to re-learn what all the buttons and knobs do, and when the screen is cluttered, that problem gets worse. Tooltips are a must - that's why we are just finishing up adding them to all of our profiles for all of our on-screen elements. We will be releasing updated application profiles as soon as testing is finished, but as of this week all the major parts of that system are in place and ready to go.
As for complexity of the GUI in general, it's pretty much a split right down the middle for our customers, with those wanting as little non-crucial info and buttons on the main screen as possible (some going as far as to remove the 2D/3D toolpath visualizations entirely), and those who want all the information and all the buttons, all the time. What we are learning more and more is that it's near impossible to satisfy both camps, so we are considering adding a simplified interface that retains only the most important software functions, and hides away all the information that is not 100% necessary.
The good thing is that myCNC is extremely customizable, that means it doesn't take us much time to create custom profiles, or to design a slimmed-down version of the software (and the same can be done by our users, should they want to do some screen editing). We'd love for you to take a look at our updated interface when it's ready, so we'll keep in touch and will hopefully have something for you soon.
Let me know if you end up testing myCNC on your routers!
Great that you see it this way, it's always a good sign when a person or company embraces negative feedback rather than taking offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan-mycnc
I think this would be a better approach, maybe do it in such a way that standard functions or groups of related functions can simply and easily be turned on/off as needed and dragged around the main screen rather than needing to edit screens, etc. Similar to how CAM and CAD software, etc does it. This would make it easy to simply customize the screen with standard or often-used functions that suit the type of machine your using.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan-mycnc
For those that want to have Custom layouts or functions etc then they can edit screens as you say.
Anyway, hope my feedback and suggestions help.
No problem, I won't ask again, I never even ask companies with Secret Pricing Policies, it invariably means they assess each customer as to how far their leg can be lifted on a case by case basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I have a similar view. I'm happy to know what list price is, if anyone knows. I dont need to know what discount was got for the demo / promo.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicniner
It's not so much secret pricing as the fact I was asked not to share the quote because it wasn't a normal situation, which I didn't and I won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicniner
My reply regards list price was also based on the fact I explicitly stated please don't ask the price and gave the reason why. Yet you and Chaz didn't have the decency to respect this and still pushed for a price, so if you want it so bad then go find it your bloody selves.!
I didnt push for a price. I asked, tongue in cheek, knowing you said you wouldnt share and not to ask, that part was a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
My point is that like Magicniner, I dont do 'POA', I dont like it and I'm not going to do the work to find the price if its not listed easily to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Don't see anything in that post that indicates you was making a funny remark.? . . . That :whistle: OR :joker: that would indicate a funny.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
The whole point in me putting what I did was so not to lead into this kind of debate and distract from the re-build thread.
I wasn't and I'm not trying to sell these controllers to anyone so I don't give a flying F#'k if you don't like POA but I do care that I keep my word to a supplier. Also when I see someone explicitly asking not to enquire regards price I would expect those reading to respect their wishes.!
This JazzCNC - see the ;p - it means tongue in cheek.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Not to me it doesn't but better still don't bother next time hey.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Wow. I had hoped the fact that we know a bit about each other have been on this forum together for a number of years would count for something, clearly not. Looks like you are having a bad day.
Get off your high horse. I told you its a joke, don't believe me, go fly.
Its odd how abrasive everyone finds you. It must be all of us, clearly.
I've worked with some brilliant people in my time - both in my teams and teams working for others, some of them are really good at what they do and they having amazing abilities however people cant work with them as they are toxic and abrasive and in the end, no use to man or beast.
Never said anything about not believing you, said it didn't come across as funny to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Who's showing their true colours now then.? . . .Not anywhere did I get insulting towards you or anyone else but yet you feel the need to attack and insult me personally just because I showed a dislike to you asking something I explicitly asked not to be asked.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
However, if you truly now how everyone feels towards me then I can remedy that in one go.
Jazz ignore him. you give your opinions with honesty and give so many people on here the help they need from experience of these types of machines. you are definitely in my top people on this forum and I don't think people want you to leave.
Go look at your posts, go look at all the 'fights' on this forum. I've been a long time supporter of yours, I appreciate the value you bring but it comes at a cost. That cost is abrasiveness and harshness, even when its not needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I told you that it was a tongue in cheek comment, your response is to rubbish what I said. Suppose like others I'm just tired of needing to pussyfoot around your demeanour.
Hello, this is my first post. I know it's normal to introduce yourself, but I thought I would chime in and ask everyone to calm down. We dont have to like everyone all of the time, but please stop arguing. Does anyone want a cup of tea, I might have some hobnobs somewhere.
Bob
Some times there is no other way than to be harsh to cut thru the crap that's being spouted and if you or anyone else doesn't like it then it's tuff shit because I'm not changing or ignoring false or wrong information just because some snow flake doesn't like my writing tone. If it's wrong I'm saying so whether they like it or not.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
I didn't rubbish anything, I said I didn't see the funny side and please not to bother in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
You seem to know what everyone thinks and it appears I've out stayed my welcome. Bye
Thanks, John but there's a limit to how many times you can be attacked on a personal level and I've just about had enough. I don't need this Crap, esp from people who I've gone out of my way to help in the past. If that's how it truly is then why the hell should I carry on devoting my time and energy passing on my experience to people who just turn around and insult you. . . Don't need this Shit.!Quote:
Originally Posted by johngoodrich
Jazz, two things.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
1. You left the forum before as people seemed to struggle to get along with you. This feels like Deja Vu.
2. Why don't you tell everyone the full story behind the help you gave me?
Otherwise, let's just leave it at that. You do your thing, I'll do mine and I wont interfere with your thread(s) again.
Thanks
Chaz gets your fact straight. I never left the forum, circumstances in my life which I won't get into with you, made it so had a long absence. So if you took that or read more into it then that's your problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Don't try to make this sound more sinister than it is, and if I'm honest I can't remember why I helped you, all I know is I did when I didn't really need to. More fool me.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Ill remind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Connect the 0-10V output from the CS Labs unit to the Sprint DC control board.
I took the repair cost on the chin, you helped me with information previous to this and after too and made some plates for my Triac. I still have those plates despite having sold the machine as they remind of me the fine work you do.
Yes, that was an unfortunate set of regrettable circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
#1 The manual stated the outputs where isolated but didn't mention the Analog outputs where not. Even Gary at Zapp who sold you the controller was unaware of this. They have since changed that.
#2 I'd just retrofitted a Denford machine with a sprint controller using the IP-M which used the same Analog output without any issues, so I'd no reason to doubt yours wouldn't.
#3 You contacted me in the middle of a busy day and I replied without looking further and checking which sprint controller you had.! This I regretted deeply and made me feel like shit when finding out what happened, so much so I contacted Gary to see what could be done, I even offered up the Controller I had just purchased to get you going and was willing to take your old controller after it had been repaired.
I don't recall the plates but if they were not suitable or as expected all you had to do was say something and I would remake new ones or if that wasn't good enough and I charged you, which knowing me I probably didn't, would have gladly refunded. (I still will refund if that was the case)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Now to be honest I'm stunned how insulting and vitriolic someone could be towards me after I've only ever gone out of my way to help them and countless others, all because I didn't find there attempt at a joke to be funny and showed my dislike.!
I'm done now. Good luck with all that you do.
Indeed, the failure was regrettable. My point is, I continued to be a supporter of yours even through an issue like this that was not cheap to fix. I referred people to you, I suggested you when people asked me who they should speak to and on the forum I would often say 'Listen to Jazz, he knows his stuff'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
The plates were good. Its a compliment. The reason why I didnt use them in the end was due to an issue where I gave you the wrong measurements. The machining is impeccable on them.
The reason I 'triggered' was your response to me having some banter with you about the price. It was and remains a tongue in cheek comment. Your response wasnt what I expected and felt like a kick in the nuts.
And like you. I'm done too.
Thank you.
Ok well bit of an update and a little twist in the plan.!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlHceUhKTIY
Looking good Dean:toot:
Dean - you mention running this off single-phase. What kind of spindle motor would that be? It looks like a big, heavy machine so 4KW or so spindle motor? Just curious - no way would it fit my workshop! Interesting to watch the design/component choice/build proces - thanks for letting us watch the thought processes!