Printable View
Ok thats the rubbish yanked out!!
Attachment 2513Attachment 2512Attachment 2511Attachment 2510Attachment 2508Attachment 2509
:cry:
Thats the progress to date, New stuff arriving any day now. The speed controller and the rack with the drivers in it have only been removed temporarily while I get the wiring sorted and to allow me to mount the new breakout board when it arrives..
Now comes the bit i hate....WAITING FOR THE POSTMAN!!!!!!!
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/misc/pencil.png
What does the other half? think about you buying something expensives and ripping it apart? :wink:
After 28yrs of marriage i suspect she has learned to keep here opinions to herself and im not going to ask how she feels about it, she benifits from the bikes i do so i suppose she can see the logic but again ive learned the hard way if you dont ask for someones opinion you are less likely to be offended by it!!! (besides ive seen her watching with interest over my shoulder when im watching the cnc stuff on Youtube!!!)
Ive started to design the control panel to replace the old tatty one ive taken off and it occured to me that i would like a tacho on for the spindle, after spending a couple of hours searching the net i came up with the Trexon Tachulator from MKC Tools however they are on a summer break so thats a no go besides which coming from america it takes an age, so back to the drawing board.. So im not trying to re-invent the wheel here i just want to buy a board similar to the Trexon.. but guess what i just cant seem to find one so any sugestions here?
Rick
lots of ways to do that.... what do you have to monitor the spindle speed? an index pulse or just a control voltage?
On the top of the spindle there is a metal plate with 50 holes around the edge, and what i suspect is a optical sensor.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
can you post a pic of it... and the sensor? That should make it easier...
Irving, your wish is my command.....
Attachment 2523
And here is one taken the other way.
Attachment 2522
Does this help?
Yep,thats a RPM timing sensor.
Yes. with that number of holes was probably used for closed loop spindle speed control rather than just speed measuring. Have you retained the spindle speed controller and do you plan to reuse it? Even at this age it would have been 0 - 8v or 0 - 10v control signal and MACH3 can drive that through a suitable speed interface and that might be a lot easier than finding a suitable replacement speed controller. Any idea what the max spindle speed might be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardoco
Thanks for that in-depth insight...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeD
You're welcome,Irving. :rolleyes:Quote:
Thanks for that in-depth insight...:rolleyes:
I was going to give a better explanation but it too early in the morning. :eek:
The Controller for the spindle is a Lenze 534. I will be keeping this on the machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Ive ordered an interface for mach control from cncdoctor and yes it is 0-10vQuote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
The motor has the numbers 370-4000 engraved on it however with gearing i think we are looking at around 3000rpm max at the tool, probably 2500-3000rpm. The spindle pickup was wired directly to the old main board so i can only assume it was processed there but as that is now gone i need an alternative and it would be nice to have the side effect of a display on the machine itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
:lmao:lol that made me really laugh!!Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
For the life of me I cant understand why we dont have a Usefull little circuit like the Trexon Tachulator from MKC Tools here on a UK site, or if there is?? why it is so difficult to find, Buy it, Fit it, Use it, Enjoy it, simplezzz. (obviosly not)
I am pretty sure (tho I've not looked at the manual) that MACH3 can provide a spindle speed display, but that wouldnt be on the machine... which would be nifty but not of any great value... finding an off the shelf panel mounted rev counter might be tricky, a quick google didnt reveal anything useful... whatever it is needs to be able to scale at 50:1. A simple PIC-based solution would be easy to implement tho...
That Texon is ugly, but easy to replicate... maybe I'll knock up a quick PIC design for it...
Well it may be ugly but its better than the ones available over here, i found loads of people asking for a circuit to do this but not many links to sites, I cant imagine there is no demand for this type of product, in fact reading the manual for the Texon they even provide a printable overley for your convienience.
There are plenty of people such as yourself who can do a little pic circuit with output to a display of some description and the maths is not too difficult for the program 50pulses=1rev for just a counter, introduce a clock and you have a tacho (not that simple i know) but it is for those people such as yourself and myself for that matter but an off the shelf solution would be better for the masses.
Yet again I am gobsmacked by the range of knowledge and skills displayed here on the Forum. For the short time I have been a member here I cannot remember a problem that has not been solved in some way or another.
Oh cool the postman has just dropped of some goodies for my collection :tongue:
Attachment 2524
12 Relay board DPDT...made by me
27 Switches SPST latching and non latching...fleabay
2 x 0-27vdc power supply boards...maplin
Motor Speed interface for mach...cncdoctor
Opto breakout board...cncdoctor
Standard breakboard...from the shed
50 x bc547 transistors ....fleabay
100 3k3 resistors..... fleabay
100 bi-colour LED's...from shed
100 Chrome LED panel mounts... from shed
and so it begins........
Hey wobblybootie that a cool avatar!!!!
Rick
Les Jones posted this, first on the Shumatech site, then on MEW.
It works very nicely as a tachometer. I used an Allegro gear tooth sensor and just told it to count 65 teeth per rev.
HTH,
John
Thank you for the link, This looks like a very nice circuit. I was rather trying to avoid digging out the pic programmer and all the other gumph that goes with it. But unless i can get an off the shelf solution, that seems to be the way i will have to go, as both yourself and Irving have indicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by z3t4
Ive just moved home and that stuff formed the least important box when moving, which I suspect means it is in the most awkward place in the garage under god knows what.... HELPPPPPPPPP...
no probs rick... write the code and i'll program a PIC for you... if I havent done it first myself... lol what's your preferred flavour of PIC?
The Les Jones solution is neat, but limited... the Trexon's ability to display Surface Speed based on diameter is useful
Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Ok irving can you explain that a little for me because im missing something here..lol
Ive always liked the 16f877 in the pdip package
What features would it be usefull for this program to have and why?
what are you missing? design the program and write the code and send me the source and I'll compile it into a PIC :), sell it on ebay... next stop, world domination!!!
Seriously, I use the F877 in my testbed, which has a 4x4 keypad and a 20x2 display (actually 2, one a serial i/f VFD and the other a parallel LCD).
I would have the program have 3 modes:
Mode 1/ show actual speed in RPM (allowing input of a # pulses/rev value)
Mode 2/ Given a material type & a tool diameter & # flutes (or for a lathe, material type and diameter) and return the recommended spindle speed and feed rate
Mode 3/ Given a tool diameter and current speed show the surface cutting speed in m/min
Thats a cool idea, in fact i wanted to put some axis jog buttons on the front panel as well so maybe i should consider a pic circuit based control panel along with the speed controller, im ok with writing the program i think (ive spent many a wee small hour with my copy of pic basic pro and a 16f877) but im not sure what the input format would be from the speed pickup and the output to the drivers, this is where my knowlege is lacking im afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
and thats not to mention how to do an interface that wont mess up Mach short of having a switch that swapped out all the lines lol. so if we are going down the DIY road im going to need to pick many brains!!!!
there is the old "burst the bubble" way to look at this. Why do you need a spindle tacho on the machine, when it shows you on the monitor what speed the spindle is doing. But most of all, you should know what speed it's going as you would have written the code.
Well as i have said having a the ability to axis jog without using the PC appeals to me and having a nice RED led display of the speed of the spindle i think is a nice feature, and the other features that irving has mentioned is just a bonus. Besides which i like buttons so there:tongue: :heehee:
Ahh yes but there is the speed mach is telling the motor it should be doing and there is the actual speed at the spindle which is what i am after for reference..Quote:
Originally Posted by i2i
IE, belt snaps Mach says 2000rpm, actual spindle at tool 0 rpm.
Admittedly. I think he designed it as a simple tach, but (with an eye on the clever stuff Shumatech can do with a 1 pulse per rev input, e.g. surface speed) I emailed Les and he kindly provided code to produce a 1 pulse per rev output as well as the 7-seg display. A gentleman.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
John
Interfacing is my speciality, ask away....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardoco
pic basic pro... hmmm, ok if you must lol... I'm a C man myself but can program in anything sensible... pic basic is interpreted I think, so not sure if you can get 'real-time' enough to do accurate inter-pulse timing, tho will depend on the PIC clock speed of course.
You're still thinking manual, you've got to get on the cnc bandwagon and trust the machine.:smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardoco
Ok C it is if thats what you call it,lol, i will have to dig out all my software now ......Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Yes, well sadly its not C#, but its still preferable to that basic stuff (reignites 1980's programmers flame wars lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardoco
Well Ill start plugging away at some pseudo, while collecting bits, and putting the new bits on this machine. Mind you I could still do what i2i was hinting at and send all the signals to mach and let it sort it all out thus manually contolling the machine by proxy as it were, mind you i still wouldnt know how to give mach the speed information...
With the advent of RAD software many people just dont have a desire or mental capacity to write the code in a text editor these days, in fact back in the 80's they didnt have the desire either, and lets face it 'C' is a nice bit of kit but the time to executable can be faster with the other languages, also requiring less brain power, however as you say not much beats 'C' for raw speed of the final application..Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Who uses a text editor?... HiMem C for the PIC is a full IDE, with colour highlighting, in-circuit debugging, stack and variable tracing... I reckon I can match pic basic for time to executable on any reasonably complex real-world task (i.e. one requiring real hardware, interrupts, comms handling, etc.) making an LED flash is not a real world program!
but we digress......
BTW a PIC to handle the jog buttons and convert to keystrokes for MACH3 would save on extra input lines and the need to add another parallel port....
HiMem C always looked nice, for my sins I chose SourceBoost when playing with C on the 16f. Big mistake, a lot of time fighting the compiler.
These days I'd recommend using an 18f device and the free MicroChip IDE, makes for a solid combination and opens up a vast collection of sample code. A little work reading through the MicroChip documentation gives you the added benefit of source code compatibility with the newer pic32 series so if you ever need extra speed (80MHz!), io, memory, graphical user interface lol... heh, pic32 maybe overkill but it sure is sweet :)
Sorry - meant HiTech C...its the one that comes with the free IDE, but I upgraded to the full version (not essential, but someone else was paying lol) HiMem C was another, older, tool I had... the compiler does a reasonable job of hiding the chip complexity, Ram banks, i/o banks etc. from you at relatively little overhead... could usefully use more than one break point for debugging but thats a limitation of the on-chip debug support rather then the compiler... but a good range of 3rd party libraries (TCP/IP stack, CAN bus stack, even a mini-webserver).
I have,, many times.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Not used it myself, in fact ive never used 'C' of any description for programming a Microcontroler.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Yes I dont doubt that for a moment, but then you are obviosly quite intelligent and thats why i said, "many people just dont have a desire or mental capacity" in fact what I meant was "MOST" not "many":heehee: and also "time to executable can be faster with the other languages" the important word being CAN.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
I will have two parallel ports on the machine but thats just because I have two, not because it will need them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
The thing is i will have to do some serios reading before im finished writing this code, because although I have had experience with both PICS and 'C', this has not been a vast amount, and never together. Ive never used them to interpret inputs and outputs to mach or even a PC parallel port, unlike yourself i think it would be safe to say.
I would like to thank you for speaking to me about this on an equal basis, however it is not equal, as your knowlege of all these subjects is obviosly way ahead of mine, however im willing to learn from you and indeed have already.
:smile:
See what you think about this http://www.arduino.cc/ or possibly this http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/prod...roducts_id=474 (http://www.schmalzhaus.com/UBW32/) plus http://www.cpustick.com/index.htm for any basic fans ( :confused: ).
The Arduino is the hobbyists choice at the moment for small projects, I think it rather costly for what it is.
The Bitwacker gives a lot more bang for buck, but adds some complexity to the software development.
They cost more than a simple chip + support electronics but both have free development tools and neither require dedicated programming hardware. In addition they come pre-assembled and ready to use... Always a benefit :)
Both are total over-kill for a rev counter + LED display, where they win is ease of use. Should you want to add functionality at a later date, they have capacity to spare - the bitwacker could probably drive your whole cnc setup and still have time to make the tea :)
I have both Arduino and Freescale Automotive (8 and 32bit) dev kits, but I keep coming back to the PIC 16F/18F series for small projects, mainly because the smaller DIP-style PICs are just so easy to create prototypes with and usually have more than enough bang for the peanuts they cost. Not tried the PIC32 world yet.
A 16 or18pin PIC16F, a cheap display, a bit of stripboard and a 4Mhz resonator are all thats needed for a simple rev counter
Or a piece of foil and one of those ebay £25 point and shoot auto reader counters.