ah ha ah . .bet there's more bloody timber in them 2 bench's than the whole floor . . lol
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ah ha ah . .bet there's more bloody timber in them 2 bench's than the whole floor . . lol
Probably - if the floor ever collapses the benches will come out intact, and that's the important thing. The only thing they contain in greater volume that timber is woodglue :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I wonder, is there likely to be enough of a gap between the floorboards that I can poke something thin between them to find the edges of the joists to work out the width? If I can get something with a bend in it then I can find the bottom and work out the height as well.
Worst case scenario, I can cut out some of the ceiling and put up some support poles then decorate them to blend in. I'll tell the kids I built them a jungle gym for their room, and tell the wife I bought her some poles for dancing in our room...
Measure between the heads of the floor board nails ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
For the distance, yep, but I think the issue was the actual width of the joist unless I misread it? But measuring nail gap is also going to be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by John S
Not at all, theres a few things you can do, sadly none of them very easy. The absolute simplest solution is to increase the size of the joists by bolting another alongside it. This is what you do in bathrooms under the bath. Its not ideal as a 4 x 4 still doesnt have the resistance to bending that a 10 x 2 does. Another, better, option is to add a second joist on top of the first a 4 x 2 on top of a 4 x 2 will make a huge improvement, however it does mean that you'll have a step up into the room, headroom is reduced and inward opening doors have a bit of an issue - but this is whats often done for loft conversions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
Another, more expensive option, is to bolt some steel angle alongside the joist. Obviously this has better bending resistance than wood so can use a much smaller cross-section, but it weighs more so some calcs need to be done about the overall floor weight and wall strength.
I notice irving's specified the loads in Newtons per square meter, so surely if you can spread the load by placing the benches on their own 'joists' running perpendicular to the existing joists the area and therefore number of Newtons supported is increased, perhaps enough? You'll probably be tripping over them all the time though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
They say that great minds think alike, but then again they also say that fools seldom differ. This is the first thing that occured to me when I read the post. Can the joist be on top of the floorboards? Basically creating a raised platform at one end of the room? Hopefully Jonathan and I have great minds but I must admit I'm not doing our side any justice at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Edited to add: Ahh, I guess you mean the extra joist being lined up exactly on top of the old joist, not perpendicular to it? Still, same question applies!
Yes in theory, but you'll need to support the joist at the wall at each end using joist hangers and not just terminate it at the wall. Although just having an additional joist on the floorboard will improve the 'bending' aspect by spreading the load, it wont reduce (indeed it will increase) the shear force at the wall and the underlying joist could still fail with the load. The correct solution is to lift the floorboards, add new joists, cutting them back into the wall and then board over with 18mm OSB which will be a lot stronger than the old floor boards. The new joists need to be securely attached to the old ones at no more than 600mm intervals, either drilled and screwed through into the old ones (BIG screws lol) or you can use retaining straps screwed to lower joist and taken over top joist in a notch and back down to lower joist, tensioned, and screwed through into both joists. Tensioning the straps needs some sort of tool...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
Incidentally the minimum joist size now acceptable for loft conversions and new builds is 9 x 2 but 10 x 2 is usual as this matches the 10"/250mm insulation depth requirement and allows direct boarding over.
Which realistically means "no" in this scenario. Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
...sounds painfully expensive and simply not possible at this moment in time, certainly. Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
I think the first step will to be to work out the joist size and then plan around that in terms of what can be safely done. That might scupper things more than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by irving2008
Hmm, I had a brief bit of time just now but only enough to move a bit of the carpet. No nails in sight and my plan to wiggle something between the boards hit a snag - there appears to be some kind of filler between the floorboards. Still, found one that was slightly looser and had a dig!
Found two joists. Each was 65mm wide. Distance between closest faces was 340mm, so centre to centre would be 405mm. What I'm wondering is that, because the measurements were taken close to the stairs, whether this is representative of the rest of the room or whether the gaps are different because of the stairs. Somehow. Or maybe not.
Attachment 6690
Measurement was taken about a foot away from the wall, roughly in line with the middle of the radiator.
Attachment 6691
The stairs, viewed from the uncovered part of the floor. The joists I found would be roughly in line with this.
I don't know if the gaps might be different further out to the middle of the floor but didn't have enough time to check. An awful lot of moving might be needed!
The plot thickens.
Edited to add: I plan to check the depth of the joist but I'll need to find something thin and bendy first. I guess the depth is a more critical bit of information.