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Intermittent faults are a pain. Being a vehicle master tech, I've spent weeks (and occasionally several recovery trucks :whistle:) trying to find some faults.
Only way to know for sure is to try it.
Personally, I wouldn't solder wiring. Solder and wiring that moves/vibrates has a high risk of breaking causing intermittent problems. Connectiosn should ideally be crimp, or screw with suitable support to avoid movement at the join.
Maybe this is worth reading too ? it#s AM882's and SmoothStepper http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gantry...html#post56967
although I didn't get an alarm on the AM882 so your problem is likely something different.
Thanks folks. I checked the wiring earlier and found a couple of loose terminal connections to the drivers, cant say for sure but one of them was quite suspect. In addition the driver alarm circuit is in and tested, I was quite motivated to put that in! :)
Now arent you pleased you bought good quality drives because lesser drives would have let out the magic smoke when a phase wire falls out of bounces.!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Now the missed steps concern me because while a loose connection could cause loss of position it wouldn't loose 2-4mm just jogging around, which by the way isn't a small amount when your talking several hundred MS steps per mm.
I would check that the SS frequency is same for Each Axis and it's not set to some silly high setting. 128Khz is more than enough.
Also do you have a Cable to connect to AM882 drives and use the protune software.? If not then get one for the sake of £2 worth every penny.
Check that each drive is set exactly the same with regards microstepping and Amp's. Protune as a Quirk in that it will some times default the Amp settings back to default which is around 2A, so check it hasn't done this on one of the drives.
Makes sure the Motor tuning and steps Per in Mach is exactly the same for both slaved Axis. Don't set high feed or Acceleration until your sure machines mechanicly fine and no binding Etc. Even then be careful not to go daft with Accel which is the biggest cause of lost steps.
What are your Motor tuning settings now.?
Hello Dean. That would have been all I needed to see smoke! Its great building the thing but setting it up is nerve racking (no pun intended) :) I watched the youtube videos on Mach3 homing *a lot* before I finally hit the button, thankfully Z and Y homes nicely. X groaned too much so I stopped to investigate.
I do have the RS232 cable, tired 3 pc's before I could get comms to the drives but I did get there, havent run the protune software yet, will add that to the list for tomorrow. I'm assuming that the racking was becuase one motor was running, the other wasnt.
Currently, kernel speed (from ports and pins screen) is 35KHz, Motor Slaving & pins appears fine. 3 home switches fine, estop circuits pilz etc fine. I cant see where to check the SS frequency, in the plug in control screen I just get mach3 buffer time, 1000ms, PLCM buffer 500, accell overshoot 20%, plcm feedrate for DRO 1075.
I'm using ballscrews with 5mm pitch. For X,Y,B motor settings are 320 steps, velocity 4000, acceleration 1000, step pulse 5, dir pulse 5
For z its 320,3000,300,5,5.
I'll definately run protune tomorrow, thanks for the advice. Before the gantry was bolted to the ballscrews it run quite well, there's a lot of mass there so it wasnt really easy to push but could move it about easy enough. That leads me to conclude that the linear rails are perpendicular. Now its bolted to the ball screws when I release the left hand side binding the right motors is really more stiff to rotate with no power to the drives than the left, so I'm looking at the bearing mounting for the ball screw on the left side of the machine, I may be able to shim it a little, I'll take more detailed measurements tomorrow and see if I can determine what the resistance/binding is... All advice, as always, appreciated :) thanks.
Yep just a motor wire to fallout while Jogging would fry lots of cheaper drives.!
Are you using the USB SS or ESS.? in either case they don't use Kernal speed but it's best to set it at default 25Khz.
If using ESS then look in Plug in control and choose ESS Config. On left you'll see Max Step Frequency for each axis and Spindle. Set to 128Khz you won't need any higher than that.
I will try to consolidate these issues under my build log later but a seperate post allows me to appeal to those who know and love ProTune directly.
So for reference I have an EPLC3 SS and ZP5A-INT Zapp BOB and 4 AM882 drives. Following on from my adventures in racking yesterday I'm trying to tune the motors with ProTune and... it really is trying.
I have 'the cable' (DB9 to Rj12), also a USB to RS232 cable with seperate driver (CH41?) and so far 4 different PC's trying to get stable comms to the 882.
I ditched the USB to RS232 lead completely and cut off the DB9 connector from 'the cable' checking in the pinouts from RJ12 connector (using the data sheet from the Leadshine site) so as to re attach it from new, I didnt find any misaligned pins in the DB9. I've used 4 PC's to connect and generally I'm not getting anywhere.
I went to the Leadshine site and downloaded the correct version of the AM882 Protune (according to them) and found it didnt play nice with my legacy XP (up to date as of the April cut-off) and found myself re registering several ocx components at which point I thought, enough, ask for directions!
For what its worth I do get a read from the drives so I know that serial comms are working but every time I try something interesting in ProTune it says in effect comms dropped. I've tried all the dip switches on the 882 to off, and not (although not all on), the 882 is powered up and motor is connected to it, the BOB is not.
I'll send real chocolate Egg to whoever can help me out here. This is driving me nuts. Thanks. Tony.
Tony. I have not used Protune as yet but have you set the com port up on the PC with the correct baud rate, stopbits and type of handshaking ie xon/xoff etc. Just a thought, I am not sure the usb to rs232 don't always work ..Clive
I've got no expereince of digital stepper drivers, but I've never had any issues with USB adapters setting up other drives. Could it be something like the USB/RS232 interface you're using not implementing the full RS232 standard?
Not all USB adapters connect or implement things like the DTR/DSR/RTS/CTS lines, which could be the problem.
I normally use FTDI based adapters, and any I've had implement the full pin set, however some do exist that don't.
Well, I've spent hours rebuilding PC(s) to Windows 7, finding pinouts on the web (leadshine's site) and I'm still no better off. Added to which is the frustration that I feel that whenever I'm able to some quality time on the machine its a public holiday weekend and I cant just drive to a supplier to buy a new cable.
If anyone has used ProTune on a PC can I please confirm the following settings with them.
RJ12 to DB9 Cable (the oh so special one!)
RJ12 Pin # Cable Colour DB9 Pin
1 White none
2 Black none
3 Red 2
4 Green 5
5 Yellow 3
6 Blue none
PC Settings: Windows [7 fully patched. No 3rd party firewall.]
Control Panel>System>Device Manager>Ports>COM1>Properties
Bits per Second: 9600, Data Bits:8, Parity: None, Stop Bits: 1, Flow Control: None
>Advanced> Use FIFO buffers: Checked, Receive and Transmit Buffer: 1
Please let me know what you have used that has worked. Thanks.
Hmmm...only 3 wires would indicate it's only using RX/TX and GND.
What USB adapter are you using?
When I had a quick scan of the AM882 manual earlier, it said use a baudrate of 38400.
However whatever software is using the COM port should configure the port itself, ignoring any windows settings.
Tony,
http://www.leadshine.com/Download.aspx?Type=software
This is my cable, it's a USB to serial converter then a short length of cable cut from an old phone with the correct plug already fitted.
I used default settings for everything else.
Pinout details for cable http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/...munication.pdf
Attachment 12133
If you plug it all in then on your PC go to, Settings - System - Device Manager, you will see if it's connected and which COM port number it has. In my case it's showing the USB to serial converter on COM10
Attachment 12134
As you can see I get an error when trying to read from the drive, this has always been the case with my system ( Windows XP ) and I've never followed it up, but I might now.
Attachment 12135Attachment 12136Attachment 12137Attachment 12138
To be honest I would just as soon use the DIP switch 4 method as described in the manual , where you quickly switch it twice and the drive will set itself up.
Nah it's too hit n miss and you never know if you've done it fast enough, software is 100%. Also you can set the amp's for the motors exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyCurrent
When you say try something interesting expalin what exactly your doing and what's happening.?Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
The fact your reading the drive means it's working. There is a quirk in protune Like eddy showed where trying to read or write to memory doesn't work, I'm not exactly usre which it is and I'm not at my setup laptop to check Protune but it gives a COM error.? . . . .I think if you click Write to Ram you get COM error but write to EEprom you don't.?
Every time I use the 'switch 4 method' I can hear the stepper motor 'singing' while it goes through the routine.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I always get a pop up message telling me to do a 'Read' before I can do a 'Write'Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Yes maybe does energise stepper but doesn't mean it's tuned correctly and still it doesn't set the Amps. Software is much better and takes any doubt away.Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyCurrent
Also with a little tweaking you can get motors running much smoother than the autotune does.
Well yes suppose that makes sense really because you would want to read the drive for it's current settings before changing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyCurrent
It's been a few weeks since I've used Protune as I've been using EM806 drives lately which have supaceeded the AM882 and the software is differant so can't remember if my Protune does this or not.
Eddy, I've been playing with Protune on my XP machine today. I kept getting the error that you show. After a bit of research it turns out that it is due to the file stored in RAM on the drive being generated in a different language (probably from a Chinese machine).
If you go to Control Panel - Regional and Language Options then click the Languages tab and tick 'Install files for East Asian Languages', once it is applied you won't get the error message anymore.
Si.
Here is an example of what I am seeing. The four error screens should be read right to left.
1.Start ProTune, Select Com1 all ok so far.
2.Select 2nd icon from left, Read/Write drive parameter. OK So far.
3.Immediately I get error message 1, please check if the communication cable or drive is OK.
4.I click OK and I get the message Read finish successfully.
5.I see Screen 2. The parameters Configuration screen.
6.I leave this open or closed, dosent matter, I want to do something interesting and Select 4th icon from left, System Config.
7.Immediately I see Com Error! message, Please check connection and restart!
8.I click OK and immediately I see screen 3, the SystemConfig screen, clicking Start does nothing.I cant close this screen top right.
9.So I decide to close the whole application, restart and go straight to System Config, I see error message 4, Com Error, Fail in reveiving monitor data.
Thats about it, I have to click OK 4-5 times to close the dialogue and the protune app essentially does nothing for me.
I'm still not convinved I have the cable wired correctly, can anyone confirm the pinouts above please? They are as per the leashine data sheet but I just want to be sure.
Tony, it looks like a problem with the cable to me. I bought mine from Gary @ Zapp so i'm not sure of the wiring. There is a little thread on Zapp's forum which talks about the cables : Zapp Automation Ltd
Not sure it it'll help, but maybe worth a quick read.
Si.
I'm almost certain it's not going to be COM1, did you look at the ports in device manager ? while you are on that page, keep plugging/unplugging your interface cable a few times so you can identify which component is changing then you can see which COM port it's using.
Thanks Si, yes I suspect the same, I found that thread on the Zapp site but wasnt sure what he meant by pull the plug. In any event I think I'll order another cable wait and see.
Si, that's an excellent find I can't wait to try it !Quote:
Originally Posted by firetrappe
Eddy, thanks. It does seem to be COM 1 but thats becuase I only have one physcial port on the machine and I do get someting out of it when it find a port that works. I plan to go and get a RJ12 crimp too tomorrow from Maplins and have a go at building another cable, I'll post as to my progress.. :)
Thanks Lee for moving these threads under the build log.
It was the Cable! Thanks all for the advice and support. :)
Glad you got it sorted out in the end Tony.
Si.
So. frustration with the electronics over and frankly the "is that it?" feeling from ProTune in the rear view mirror (apart from the fault codes which were interesting and somewhat revealing) I took a look at the mechanicals again as there was some resistance/binding on the right hand X Axis. I attached the fixed and floating bearings on the frame using the link to the gantry to support the alignment and did the best I could do at the time. The problem is there is no adjustment in the design, mainly becuase it was made using hand tools/small press drill and one or two trips to people with milling machines (for the slot in the front Y Plate, and a small pocket on the inside of the Z Axis).
So I'll need to come up with some plates that allow the fixed and floating bearings on both sides to connect to the frame with some (mainly horizontal) adjustment, its about 1mm out end to end currently. More on that when I get some time..
If it's out that much then Be very careful not to run the gantry right upto the ends as you can easily bend the screws.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Thanks Jazz, I've halted all planned movement now until I sort the adjustment. I was worried I had damaged the screws so I stripped them down and thankfully they roll nice and even.
<Do not pass go, do not collect 200 pounds>
So. Adjustment plates produced by laser and returned nicely, tapped OK in the laser hole but had to try 3 M4 Taps to find one that worked well. Adjustment plates assembled and fitted on one side, was getting ready to fit the other side when the movement of the gantry got my attention.
Several months ago I applied some light machine oil (3-in-1 I think) to the hiwin rails and ran the gantry on the X Axis back and forth a few times, was satisfied with that and thought nothing of it. Fast forward a couple of weeks and the oil had dried into an almost varnish like residue that was possible to remove with a scriber but left a glue like substance behind. Bottom line the oil had gummed up the rails and the linear bearings were not so much cutting through it as riding roughly over it. The gantry had become still to move and it didn’t feel smooth at all. So took one rail off today, checked the bearing block and it seemed OK. I spent about some time with light sanding paper on the frame where the rail has been bolted as there was a rim of hardened oil residue all around the rail, that done I took a wire brush to the back of the hiwin rail to remove the frame residue that was stuck there and then thoroughly cleaned the rest of the rail with degreasant and elbow grease. The rail came out really clean, the bearing I had removed ran rock solid and smooth over the rail and once bolted back in the gantry is noticeably smoother. I'll do the other side next day or so. I have already got the right type of grease for future lubrication but thought I'd post this as a warning to others of what not to do. Once that's done I'll work on the alignment of the second X Axis screw and bearings and then go back into Mach, check the connections, limits & homing and finish setting the soft limits which is as far as I got before I took several steps backwards.
Just to be sure, did you put any grease or oil in the bearing before testing again and finding it to be 'smooth'? If not, then (at risk of stating the obvious) do put some in before going further as running without any lubricant (which is presumably the case if you've cleaned it thoroughly) even for a short time will reduce the life of the bearing. Hard to say by how much, but there's no need to risk it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Edit: You might want to check the ballnuts for debris whilst you're at it.
Thanks Jonathan, I havent moved it much at all but now the other side is done too I am much happier with how smoothly it moves. Thankfully I didnt oil the ball screws at the time so the residue isnt on them. I'll grease it all up again soon. Tony.
Move to Go. Do not pass Go.
OK, so I'm about back to where I was before, when I was racking the machine and trying to bend the ball screw out of true. I've got the machine moving smoothly and I'm setting up homing prior to figuring out the limits and setting the soft limits and I've hit a snag, done some reading to avoid wasting the time of people and I'm not confident yet.
Problem is dual X axis homing, Z homes OK, Y homes OK, when I select X home, (thankfully at 2% speed) the maching starts to rack as one X axis motor is turning, the other isnt. The weird thing is that under jog movement they both move together, so now I'm into the Mach ports/pins and homing screens. Ports and pins I have X and B axis configured correctly I believe, they move on jog so I'm OK with that, Z,Y,X Home I have values and the diagnostics page in Mach confirms they work and Y and Z home OK anyway. I *do not* have a home input signal for the B Axis as I assumed that as its slaved to my X axis that would be OK, clearly its not so I suspect I need to add input signal values for the B Axis and copy the X Axis home port and pin setting to fool mach into seeing the same switch? Is that the answer? as always advice appreciated, thanks.
Tony. I am off to bed now and had a small drink. But in the morning if nobody has responded I will check my Mach3 and let you know the settings for it. You need two homing switches as the way it works is that both motors should drive the axis back to the home position then one switch trips and backs off then the other does the same. Its also important to have exactly the same setup in motor tuning for both the motors. When it works it will work fine. ..Clive
Thanks Clive, for now I only have one homing switch, can I/do I have to use the inputs for one home switch for both home inputs?
Tony you MUST have 2 switches on separate inputs for homing to work with slaved motors. The first switch can be wired in series with Y & Z but the second must be on it's own input.
Also in General Config you must UNCHECK "home slave with master axis"
Thanks. I guess I need to figure out a way to mount the switches on both sides with enough adjustment they both connect at the same time.
Tony Jazzcnc hit the nail on the head I could not think straight last night. If you pm me your number I will run through the settings with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
If you are worried about racking when testing take the belts or motors off both sides then you can see what is happening. ..Clive
Alcholic Pisshead syndrome. . .:very_drunk:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Tony if you use the bullet type proximity switches they have a threaded body which you can use for adjustment. Also if using proximity switches you can use the sensing distance as kind of fine tuning which is handy for setting slaved motors.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Finally, auto home on all axis - thanks for the help. For the help of others, although as Jazz says the dual input was required and I didnt have that to start with, once I wired that up I still didnt have the dual X axis home working. I was about to write a detailed post here with all my Mach config settings when I noticed a discrepancy between the various B or A axis settings, once they were all pointing to the same B axis it worked. Happy days :)