Errr ye but I'm stupidly busy so it won't be any time soon.!! . . . . I'll PM my number for chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
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Errr ye but I'm stupidly busy so it won't be any time soon.!! . . . . I'll PM my number for chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Ok, I can wait till next weekend :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Just about to take my bike for a service, might call you from there or later on the weekend.
Thanks
Worth a punt to then convert to CNC?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
What is . . ..?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport...71605075&rt=ncQuote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Sorry, my bad.
Only if it comes cheap.!
Problem with these is while they are strong-ish for Manual machine they arn't ideal for CNC use for number of reasons. It takes a lot of work to convert these to CNC and personally I don't think the effort required to do it correctly is worth it. For what will still be an inferior CNC machine compared to purpose built CNC machine.
You'll be much better looking for OLD machine that started life as CNC machine. It will have structural and major components on it that are designed for CNC use. Like the Spindle, Ballscrews and it's supports, Linear ways and Motor mounts ETC.
Much easier to Retrofit with new motors and Electronics than start trying to shoe horn parts into spaces they don't fit or suit.!!
I'd Pass on this idea.!!
Totally agree with Jazz on this, Look for an old Bridgeport Interact.
I picked a dead one up for £600 and they are much better and easier to retrofit.
Thanks both.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgygeeza
I actually went to Amadeal today and looked at their stock. A bit dissapointed, not 100% what I was expecting but still managed to see a X5 in the flesh. Decent looking, a lot of money. If there is a recommended 'old' machine to mod, Im up for it as long as its mainly electronics and not making a lot of plates and brackets etc as I have nothing really to easily fabricate with.
Ill look at Bridgeport Interacts. Any other to consider?
Ideally Id use this to make something custom with a high speed spindle if needed.
There are a number of these on ebay, with an 'older' type of CNC system. Are those systems usable or should it be chucked and something more modern applied? How much of their current electronics can be reused (if at all)?Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgygeeza
Do you have any info about how you modded yours?
Was it the same as this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport...torefresh=true
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRIDGEPORT...item339b378f32
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport...item2351d7cad7
or similar?
Thanks
I spotted that last Interact. If you can mod it to run off single phase, it is a steal..
This one?Quote:
Originally Posted by komatias
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgeport...c=1&rmvSB=true
yes that is the one
What is this worth?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denford-Tr...item3aa95b6db3
This might give me a starting point at least. Id be willing to spend a bit more for 'better' but short of someone building me a custom machine (hint hint Jazz), not a lot of options ready to go. Im loathed to spend as much as £5 - 8K on a Syil or similar unless its felt that its worth it .... dont believe it is from advise thus far.
I have a little Denford and it's excellent for what I want to do. A Triac would be nice as it's bigger, about the size of my VMB, but I don't have room for it. Unless you are very particular I'd have thought a Triac would be a good buy. When I got my Novamill I was thinking of converting an X1 or buying a KX1, but the Denford knocks those small machines into a cocked hat, it's just in a different league. A Bridgeport is great, but takes up lots of room, and is very very heavy! I would guess that with a Triac you would get the same accuracy as a Bridgy but won't be able to shave off metal as the same rate.
As for what it's worth, things are worth what people will pay. This particular one is not in an auction but you could try making an offer. I think eBay gives you a facility to see previous deals on similar items, so you could see what's been paid in the past? The price looks a bit high to me but I've seen some high prices for Denfords on eBay.
So I found a Denford Traic PC, dont know much about the control system. What will the cost be to convert to Mach3? How much of the electronics is reusable?Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHaine
I think quite a bit technically is. Denford have been pretty good at providing documentation and so forth. So, in principle, you can probably wire a breakout board to those drives, if they're working.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
However, the electronics are often pretty old and basic. Most of the conversions I've seen seem to replace everything, except perhaps the motors and maybe the transformer.
Personally, I'd budget for replacing all of the electronics.
Thanks, including motors?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
Wondering if this is the same mill?
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/1605-Denford-Triac-Mill
Seems a lot might be reusable. So budget for a cheap retrofit? Budget for going servo versus stepper? Info welcome, many thanks.
Depends on how old and what's inside.? Often if converting your better just replacing control and the drives with modern stuff. You'll have a far better performing machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
The AC Transformer can be re-used but often the Caps and Bridge rectifier are on one of the boards your removing so you'll need to make a little board with new caps etc or use another PSU.
For this reason I prefer to use a new often higher voltage toroidal supply has the steppers are often well under performing. Along with smaller Switch mode PSU for Relays etc to save messing around with differant size Caps etc for differant DC voltages required. The stock transformer gives several AC voltages.
The Spindle speed controller can be re-used but you'll need Controller or BOB that can provide 0-10V signal.
The Contactors and Relays can often be reused, as can most of the other bit's n bobs inside.!
Not difficult to do but Not something I'd encourage anyone who as NO experience to take on.!!
Thanks. Understood. I'm happy to do the electronics, sounds like a perfect match for a lot of new kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Trying to find some details of the spindle etc to see if it matches what I need in terms of speed / power.
I think if the motors are working (at a guess, they probably are), then I think they'll be just fine.
I'd emphasise the 'budget for' though; worst case, you might have to fork out, but obviously, every penny you don't fork out, is a penny you can spend on your vices (and clamps, endmills etc.,)
The problem with the stock electronics is that it's basic (eg., the drivers are probably only half-stepping etc.,) and conservative (voltages are lower than necessary etc.,). So, it's not going to run as smoothly or as quickly as it otherwise could.
Having said that, it's also quality stuff; so it's often worth flogging the bits you don't need on eBay, especially if they're working - last I looked the motion control and driver boards seemed to fetch a decent price.
On my very small Denford, I've only replaced the stepper drives and DC supply (the original was part of the original drive board). I've been able to keep the door latches, e-stop, various relays, spindle control board, transformer etc., The main reason I replaced the drive board was actually that it was a real pain to interface to. After a couple of months of 'is it the drive or is it the BOB or is it my wiring' hassle, I broke down, bought a Gecko and had the machine working (with LinuxCNC) in a couple of days.
Thanks. Sounds reasonable. Does anyone have quick numbers for the cost to do this? Considering there is a converted (Mach3) Triac on Ebay for £3250, how much cheaper should I get this to make it worth while?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
Someone might have better numbers if they look for the actual specifications/cheaper suppliers/use a slightly larger envelope for calculations, but I'd guess you can probably easily spend £500-£800 converting one depending on the parts you use even if you're 'just' replacing the stepper drives and you've got a few of the things you'll need.
These aren't recommendations as I've not personally used these - I'm just using the prices as a guide:
Geckodrive G213V drives (80V, 7A digital step drives) are $166 each, and an Ethernet Smoothstepper is $180. So, three drives and motion control board run to $678; once you get it shipped and Customs and Excise take their chunk of flesh for Duty and VAT, you might as well assume that that figure is already in GBP. Alternatively, you can get 80V, 5.6A drivers from Zapp Automation (a UK supplier) for £84 each, which with the smoothstepper and shipping sounds like it comes out to about £450.
On top of that, you might need breakout boards and you'll definitely need various cables, wires, mounting brackets, a mounting plate for all the gear and many, many cups of tea. So, yes, it's very easy to spend more than you meant to getting it working, so it's definitely worth doing some proper working out.
It gets rather difficult comparing the value of Triac models; one might have an automatic tool changer, another might be fully enclosed, another might be 13 years newer etc., If we're comparing against the one on eBay with the lurid guards, then that seems to have a coolant system installed. These are all potentially useful, but their value to you will vary depending on what you're doing (and some are easier to retrofit than others!)
What power supply does a Triac mill require BTW? If it's more than you can get from a standard 13A mains plug, you could get a nasty shock in the form of a bill for installing one of those circular sockets (unless you're lucky enough to already have the right one).
Look for denfordata on google to get the mill details as well as lots of info from people who have probably converted them to Mach 3 and / or modern drivers etc. for guidance I spent less than £200 on new drivers, a BoB and smps to get my Novamill working, using the original motors. All the electronics from China via eBay, 2m542 drivers. Psu is 36volt. There were no electronics at all with my mill so also had to use a KB electronics motor drive I already had, but you can use the one in the mill if it's working. Caution however, if it's a dc motor thyristor drive it is NOT isolated from the mains and you will need an isolating circuit to link the drive to your BoB.
Thanks both. Good info to consider.
Or you could use:
-3 x Leadshine closed loop steppers 3nm around 200euro each kit shipped
-1 x PoKeys57CNC /still have not tested it but price and what offers seems unbeatable by any board/~150euro shipped
and for affordable price have a closed loop machine ethernet driven. thats what my calculator says , i spend all last night in similar doubts and researching options for quality versus price
PS. I found some new similar drives for around 160 so shipping could be combined like 3x160+50, which is even better. Not to speak of that understate the value is a must nowadays
Quote:
Originally Posted by silyavski
Thanks. For closed loop, you need some form of encoder? How is this fit to the standard motors?
The motors come with encoders already. Its all in one, they call it Easy Servo. It seems on paper better than steppers, cause due to the precise control the steppers loose power at higher than normally RPM.
I would say with hand on my heart that IMO for metal working closed loop is a must. Not that steppers will not do it, but my mind feels easier that the machine is where i tell it to be :-)
Understood. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by silyavski
Just found a Triac VMC that looks like a worthwhile project. Depends on the final price though.
Yes, everything should posted somewhere on Denford's forums; might need some digging though!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHaine
Given the simplicity of the circuit needed for this (in the common PWM output case, it's one opto-isolator, two resistors and a capacitor), I'd probably avoid a breakout board that has a non-isolated 0-10V spindle output on the basis that it's been overly cost-reduced.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHaine
So, Ive bought a Denford Triac VNC. Ive not seen the machine yet (via ebay), hoping that it should be collected tomorrow and delivered to me early Saturday.
Will post up a new thread once I have it and I can start looking at retrofitting the older system with something newer.
Let us know how you get on, happy to help if I can.
Thanks. First issue, no delivery tomorrow. The courier could not collect today. Will try tomorrow but not optimistic, so a bit delayed :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHaine
Cant really start till I see what electronics are on the mill, so dont know what to look at yet.
The story now continues here:-
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8800-...Conversion-Fix
are you used custom part bro?, how method cutting gear hobing or using wire edm?
just for beginner cnc >>>> http://cncmechines5axis.blogspot.com/