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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hi. Here is what Fred wrot to me: Please attention the BK12 support we quota to you are in cheaper type with normal Deep groove ball bearing,if you prefer better quality BK12,we have P5 grade with Angular contact bearing type,seems many customers from UK are like this superior type,if change to P5 AC bearing type,the amount will be increase USD58.00 for the 4set.
Which one you would take? I seen somewhere talking about them cant find now.
Got quotes from aluminium warehouse for my aluminium plates, is it about right?
10mm plate
80 x 67 2pcs 6082 £4.10 ea tooling £5.46 ea
80 x 80 4pcs 6082 £6.58 ea tooling £8.75 ea
80 x 40 1pc 6082 £2.85 ea tooling £3.75 ea
114 x 120 1pc 6082 £10.76 ea tooling £14.32 ea
87 x 87 4pcs 6082 £6.58 ea tooling £8.75 ea
45 x 60 1pc 6082 £2.40 ea tooling £3.20 ea
50 x 60 1pc 6082 £2.00 ea tooling £4.20 ea
20mm plate
200 x 67 2pc 6082 £26.30 ea tooling £35.00 ea
200 x 50 1pc 6082 £16.40 ea tooling £21.81 ea
25mm plate
45 x 60 2pcs 6082 £6.00 ea tooling £7.98 ea
50 x 60 2pcs 6082 £6.58 ea tooling £8.75 ea
Cariage £22.30
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Yes go with the P5 AC bearings they are far superior and worth the extra cost.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hi valdis34, can I ask you a couple of questions on the material suppliers?
Where are you getting your aluminium slotted profile from?
It says 'tooling' on the quote for plates, are they machining them to your drawings ie holes faces etc ?
Many thanks
Tony....
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hi. There are quite a lot of companies here in UK which are doing extrusions. Did not buy them yet, but probably it will be company called Alprofil.
No, i will get all those pieces from the quote only cut to size, and will drill them myself. Aswell I will need some plates to be machined.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Those Aluminium prices seem high, but I guess I'm used to prices from my local supplier Taybroh Alloys in Eastington, Gloucestershire...might be worth giving them a ring to see if they will send to you?
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Yeah anything thats helps to reduce the price.. Found local machinist guy, so he will give me a quote for them in a next few days. Want to finally actualy start building it!
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Did someone bought linear parts from aliexpres sellers the jason august store, huijuan mei or transmission cnc? They are quoting a bit cheper..
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hi Valdis
You must have got the same email as i did this morning, @ least the seller is quoting genuine Hiwin. A lot of the sellers will show Hiwin in there add but if you check the description it says picture is just for general information and the supplied item will prevail so chances are they won't be Hiwin.
Regards
Mike
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Should be the same I think.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valdis034
The second link/item is the one to go for.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valdis034
Definitely the second one, but beware, even that can crack.
Attachment 19521
http://adapting-camera.blogspot.se/2016/09/cnc-upgrade-progress-disaster-strikes.html
This is how I fixed it:
http://adapting-camera.blogspot.se/2...g-cracked.html
Anyway, I bought a new one but have not installed it yet and I think the quality is the same. Cast aluminum, at least the way these cheap brackets are made, are not the best for this purpose.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
I'd buy a SBR50UU and use the housing as it's 80mm and slit along one side to clamp the spindle....
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Thanks guys, placed an order for second option. We will see how it will hold.
Today got my spindle and was surprised to find 3pin plug for it. Isnt it supposed to be 4pins ( three phases and earth)?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...cd0f10bde5.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...4a09fb8289.jpg
Another thing the locking nut has been drilled, is that they way they tried to balance it? Is it normal?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...2aea8f9f54.jpg
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
exactly the same as mine.
yes the drill holes are their attempt at balancing the lock nut.
Mine only has three pins - i connected the earth ground to the shell of the plug and tested for connectivity to the body, the whole machine is earthed anyway and the motor has a metal body so should be safe enough.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Off course with spindle got the inverter and have the electrical box, thinking that box might be a bit small for all the stuff..
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...4c649fdeb9.jpg
what size enclosures you have to fit everything?
Here will be 4 drivers, BOB, toroidal transformer, 24v supply, realays, filtered fan on the door or on the side of the box and some wires..
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
going to be tight i think, i like a bit more room - makes setting up/debugging/repairs easier IMHO.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
I've got a 600 x 600 panel and its tight enough without the vfd in there....
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
This one is only 600×380. So yes, need to look for something bigger.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
I always tell people to get a 6x9...some listen...some dont.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Word of warning on the VFD that is not a Huanyang VFD it's copy. So don't try setting it up from any settings found on here because they will relate to huanyang which is completely different.
I have fitted one in the past and it worked fine without any troubles but I wouldn't and won't fit anymore because the huanyang are much better, which is saying lot because they are not exactly top quality however they just do the job.!
If can send it back then I would or at least complain and ask for some compensation which is what I did. They refunded me some money because all the pictures showed Huanyang VFD but I think they have changed the pictures now so maybe nothing can do.?
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Word of warning on the VFD that is not a Huanyang VFD it's copy. So don't try setting it up from any settings found on here because they will relate to huanyang which is completely different.
I have fitted one in the past and it worked fine without any troubles but I wouldn't and won't fit anymore because the huanyang are much better, which is saying lot because they are not exactly top quality however they just do the job.!
If can send it back then I would or at least complain and ask for some compensation which is what I did. They refunded me some money because all the pictures showed Huanyang VFD but I think they have changed the pictures now so maybe nothing can do.?
The thing is that it doesnt say that it is huanyang in the advert, so i dont know if i can say it now for the seller. The only difference i see is the colour of the warning sticker, to which i did not pay attention at all if that is the sign of huanyang.. Here is the one i bought:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191914498581
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valdis034
The only difference i see is the colour of the warning sticker, to which i did not pay attention at all if that is the sign of huanyang..
Yes the case is exactly the same but other than that it's nothing like Huanyang. Completely different setup and if you look all the I/O terminals are different.
If I remember correctly the Analog 0-10v isn't isolated from rest of I/O. Also No on board Relay and possibly only 12V output not 24V but could be wrong on this it's been good while now since fitted it. It also won't display RPM only Frequency and Current I believe.
But like I say it worked fine and believe it still is so wouldn't be too concerned. But I'm fitting huanyang Vfd's all the time and can tell you 100% it's not huanyang and didn't want you trying to set it up like Huanyang.!! . . . . Only the case looks like it the rest is nothing like huanyang.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
The only difference i see is the colour of the warning sticker
plus the legends on the front panel are all different. But don't worry about it, It will work fine just make sure as Dean has said to only using the parameters in the manual you should get with it.:02.47-tranquillity:
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Can i expect from equal aluminium angle 90 degrees on the outside? I was so sure that is 90 degree, so even did not check it when was buying it today. Took it home decided to check the squareness it and it is less than 90 degress.. Tried to google it out, and here is what i found: "A 90-degree angle is certainly the most commonplace for aluminium angle stock, but there are products which have less than a 90-degree bend".
So maybe i was lucky to get that with smaller angle or it is common not to have proper 90 degrees angle? I saw someone was using those angles in this forum to bolt together the frame, wondering if there were some issues with that?
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18 Attachment(s)
Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hello. Its been a while after my last post, but things kept moving a bit. Since that got aluminium plates, simple ones drilled and and tapped myself , more crucial parts like gantry sides, z axis plates, motor mounts will be machined by our guru JAZZ.
Attachment 20441Attachment 20442Attachment 20443Attachment 20444Attachment 20445Attachment 20446Attachment 20447Attachment 20448Attachment 20449
Then built a bench for machine to sit on Attachment 20450 and started to lay the frame profiles Attachment 20451 after drilling holes for profile fixings i put them together and here is my base of the machine Attachment 20460Attachment 20454
After that folowed rails, cariages, plates, ballscrews, pulleys
Attachment 20455Attachment 20456
when i was assembling bearing blocks when i put together bk bearing i have a gap between lock nut and pulley which i did not see anywhere in peoples threads, and i am thinking maybe i assembled them wrong ? everything is tight and there no playAttachment 20457
Other weird thing is that i could not put all six screws through balscrew nut into its housing, holes doesnt align poperly. Once i put one screw i could not put second one because it just doesnt catch the thread. I have only one ballnut which took all 6 screws with no problems. Attachment 20458Attachment 20459 And i thought that is not a big deal i will just open the holes a bit more, but i couldnt do that because the metal is very very hard. Then i noticed that the "Good" ballnut has tapped hole in it. it must be oiling point, all other ballnuts doesnt have it. Any one had issues like that? I probably would need to contact Fred to see what he will say about it, I bought all components from him. Thats how it looks for today Attachment 20456 Thank you for your attention! :)
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Looking very tidy well done!
Gap between lock nut and pulley:
That is not a problem. The lock nut is used to pre-load the angular contact bearings inside the bearing block by pulling the shoulder of the ballscrew against the bearing on the other side. If there is no axial play and they turn freely then all is well. The pulley is only held onto the shaft with one or 2 grub screws so it can go where ever you need it to align it to the belt. It doesn't need to butt up to the nut to function.
Ballnut/mount hole alignment problem
I've always made my own ballnut holders/plates, but for my current build I bought some of those C shaped ballnut blocks that you have in the picture. However, I've not looked to see if the holes are aligned. Next time I'm in the workshop I'll have a look. Also, all the ballnuts I've bought (various places including Fred) have oil holes so makes me wonder if the ones which don't fit (and don't have oil holes) have been "sourced" elsewhere and not been to the standard. Did Fred have a drawing of the ballnuts on Aliexpress? If you measure your part and it is not per the drawing it is worth saying so. Good luck with it - I've not had to return anything to him so I don't know how good his returns policy is . . .
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
I contacted him, now waiting for reply. We didnt have any drawings it was only been said that ballnuts are comming together with ballscrews. But yes they are diffrent the flat side of the "good" ballnut goes flush with housing or lets say are in thevsame plane, whereas others has a step between them. Hopefully he will be able to send me the balnuts and i will just swap them.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Fred is decent, i have had a couple of bits missing and one BK block was sent as a BF instead - in all cases he fixed the error, the only issue was the time delay due to distances.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
valdis034
I contacted him, now waiting for reply. We didnt have any drawings it was only been said that ballnuts are comming together with ballscrews. But yes they are diffrent the flat side of the "good" ballnut goes flush with housing or lets say are in thevsame plane, whereas others has a step between them. Hopefully he will be able to send me the balnuts and i will just swap them.
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Put some pics up showing exactly what is wrong ie. is it the ball nut or the ball nut mounting that is wrong. I doubt he will just send a ball nut without the screw
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Yes i am on it with him. He responded and said that he will sort it out, which sounds good to me. Ill tell what solution we will come up with.
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4 Attachment(s)
Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clive S
Put some pics up showing exactly what is wrong ie. is it the ball nut or the ball nut mounting that is wrong. I doubt he will just send a ball nut without the screw
Here are some pics. I think whole centre hole for ballscrew is off center, thats what causing missalignment.
Attachment 20472
Attachment 20473
Attachment 20474
Attachment 20475
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hi Valdis
Machines looking good.
If you have a couple of V blocks you could support the screw in the blocks and put a DTI on the diameter that inserts into the block rotate the nut and record the runout. no idea what the tolerance is for the positioning of the flats but it could be +/- 0.5mm from centre. Dean might be able to better advise, as he is working with this stuff all the time, but if you measure as directed you have better information to give to Fred.
Regards
Mike
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
So here it is. All I can say Fred is top man, he takes all responsobility for that. His prices are a bit higher, but his service is awesome. Here are his last emails:
"Hi Valdas,
Thanks for all your help.
So sorry for the inconvenient to you,it is my first time to aware the ballnut size may have error possibility.
You are correct,seems the whoel centre hole are out of the position,the ballnut are produced in bulk quantity,I guess there may have some other wrong size ballnut went into market :(
I sincerely apologize for the problem to you,generally I will test whether it is in smootly running and the backlash,not measure size in before time,could you please tell me which the length for which 3set ballscrew have problem?I guess maybe all for 1610 model?
As now we are in holiday time,and here it is my opinions,
1)If you can waiting and build your machine in the later of next month,
Then I will arrange new production for you once back to office around on Feb.10,and hope can delivery around on Feb.12,if everything going well then shold can arrival on Feb.20.
2)If you need start your project as soon as posssible,
Then can check what's the selling price in your local market for similar Chinese ballnut?I know it will much higher than we selling,but since it is our mistake,so we have to afford all the responsbility,in order not influence your schedule too much,if you can get the ballnut from local market,no matter how expensive will be for the similar Chinese ballnut,I will pay for it.
Another question,are you skilled to install new ballnut?guess you know,the ballnut can't remove or install directly if there is no some tube between the ballnut,that means there must have something(like tube) in the middle of the ballnut,to prevent the inside steel balls dropp,and if you buy ballnut from local market,it is not 100% sure can be use directly,may need adjust the backlash to suitable according change different size steel balls.
If you didn't install the ballnut and adjust the bachlash in before time,then we will send the new ball screw with ballnut together to you,or you can buy the completed set for ball screw and ballnut together.
You can do it in any convenient way for your project.
Sincerely apologize again.
Best wishes
Fred
[email protected]"
Another one:
"Hi Valdas,
Thanks for your kindly waiting,really sorry for delay your schedule,in order to aviad the the new ballnut not in correct backlash in your present ball screw,I think we'd better delivery the completed set to you,so I will arrange the ball screw with ballnut together for the new delivery.
Will arrange the production work once back to office."
So actually i will get another set of ballscrews the only downside of its the time.
And now about something different than screws and ballnuts. Maybe someone wants a Rital enclosure for free? Its 700 height 500 width and 200 depth. I has some holes allready cut but some of them can be used i think. It doesnt have a back plate. If anyone is interested just let me know if not it is going to skip, just trying to save it from such a destiny.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9c15dbfbab.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fe2565eb33.jpg
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
I'd delete Fred's email pdq if I were you before the spambots harvest it....
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21 Attachment(s)
Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Hello. Coming back with some updates from my build.
So the news shortly are that mechanically machine is done, and partially wired. Now it will be time for the electrical drawings, laying out components buying some of them, mounting everything into electrical boxes..
Some progress photos:
Attachment 22625Attachment 22626Attachment 22627Attachment 22628Attachment 22629Attachment 22630Attachment 22631Attachment 22632Attachment 22633Attachment 22634Attachment 22635Attachment 22636Attachment 22637Attachment 22638Attachment 22639Attachment 22640
At the moment I ended up with some cables which will need to go to two control cabinets. Two because one is not enough which I got initially, so I got another one the same size, so I am thinking to have mains voltage distribution, for pump, powers supply, and vfd in one box and all the electronics to have in another one. Attachment 22641Attachment 22642
Now I will be doing a bit more reading about electrical side, try to draw some drawings. Have couple of questions for now
1. About x axis (long one ) home and limit sensors. As I am using one sensor for homing and limits I will have senor traveling with the gantry (one sensor on each side of the gantry) and it will see a bolt in the extrusion channel in each end of the machine. How will I make them bolts in each side to be in exactly the same position so gantry will be square when it reach the sensors?
Attachment 22643
2. As my vfd is a bit different I don't rellly get how to control it with external signal from mach? That Chinese manual is not very clearly written. Lets say I want to start spindle . Do I need to short RUN terminal with GND terminal or I need to use 5v or maybe 12v inputs and then to set it in parameters? Jazz said he used one of them before, might remember it. Heres the drawing:
Attachment 22645
3. Bought 13 liters tank for coolant I think should be ok? I had a tiny aquarium pump 1000l/h wich probably will not be powerful enough to lift the water all the way to the spindle, so might be looking for something bigger. I was thinking use car antifreeze and mix it with distilled water, so the system will be clean, and in the coldest times in the winter it will not freeze inside the spindle. What are your suggestions on that?
Attachment 22646
Thank you and I am sure I will get back wit more questions! :)
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Quote:
Now I will be doing a bit more reading about electrical side, try to draw some drawings. Have couple of questions for now
1. About x axis (long one ) home and limit sensors. As I am using one sensor for homing and limits I will have senor traveling with the gantry (one sensor on each side of the gantry) and it will see a bolt in the extrusion channel in each end of the machine. How will I make them bolts in each side to be in exactly the same position so gantry will be square when it reach the sensors?
You will need to be able to adjust one of the bolts when the machine is built so that you will be able to square the gantry by moving it one way or the other. In Mach3 you will set it up with homing and shared.
Quote:
2. As my vfd is a bit different I don't rellly get how to control it with external signal from mach? That Chinese manual is not very clearly written. Lets say I want to start spindle . Do I need to short RUN terminal with GND terminal or I need to use 5v or maybe 12v inputs and then to set it in parameters?
Yes if you want a switch to start it. Or you can use a relay contact to closed it and then control it with the gcode with and M3 to start and M5 to stop. In this case you will have to change some parameters in the vfd. There is a list on the forum that Jonathan started a while ago for setting up an VFD.
Quote:
3. Bought 13 liters tank for coolant I think should be ok? I had a tiny aquarium pump 1000l/h wich probably will not be powerful enough to lift the water all the way to the spindle, so might be looking for something bigger. I was thinking use car antifreeze and mix it with distilled water, so the system will be clean, and in the coldest times in the winter it will not freeze inside the spindle. What are your suggestions on that?
That's fine. 13 Ltrs is a bit over kill. If the pump can not do the head then just stick it on a shelf higher up.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Powered the vfd today and tried to start it not with panel button but linking the terminals, and it works everyting is ok. Was really surprised how silent the spindle is.
Now the question is how mach3 is controling the speed? In the manual is written that there are 7 methods to change the frequency. (Parameter 3)
Obviously from mach you can get 0v or 5v so how it will tell on what speed to run?
Another question. What is segmented speed? In manual it says you can have 7 segmented speeds. Is it that you need to enter into the segmented speed parameter the frequency you want starting from smaller one and with each segment increasing it, and then mach sends 5v pulses to adjust speed accordingly or i am wrong in here? How does that work?
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Wow! That is some build, it really is something to see and I tell you It's beautiful.
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Re: Aluminium profile cnc build
Good evening guys. Some update from me :)
Finished my power supply for steppers, getting about 73,5V. Transformers is 625VA. Couple weeks ago ordered 4 ×AM882, so waiting for them..
The only thing i am not sure about is that i would like to use IP-M motion controller, but the thing is that i want to home x axis with two sensors. I think i read somewhere that is still possible to do that, but cant find that info. If its not possible than probably IP-M is not for me.. any info highly apreciated :)
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