Help please. Dip switches and mach 3 settings

Sure Andrei, I have this feeling that the problem is a poor earth connection outside the house. If you get a voltage on the earth wire when it rains, then that would give you a 'tingle'. Putting an earth rod in would sort that out I am sure, but whether it should be connected to your supply earth in your case is something I would take advice on as there may be a problem with leakage currents.

I have a feeling that this earthing problem is the root of the strange behavior of your CNC machine as instead of putting an electromagnetic calm around your equipment, it would be doing just the opposite.

I appreciate the legacy of communism will be slow to remove, but at least progress is being made.

Ok. Will do. Thank you.

the earthing problem explains a lot

if your utility supplier will not fix the problem then
replacing the faulty earth connection with an earth spike
will convert your supply to a TT system and be safer than what you have now

Attachment 24665



John

Ok. Thank you.

Attachment 24666
Attachment 24667
Attachment 24668
Attachment 24669
Attachment 24670

A few pics with the house to pole supply connection, the main fuse box outside the property from which I get electricity into my workshop.
A big high tension structure which is situated on my property, quite close to the workshop.
It has a lightning protection thing included. Although, I have now and then some fluctuation in the supply, as some light bulbs are blinking/dimming, I never had any appliance broken or anything like that.
Also have a cctv camera in the workshop, a few meters away from the cnc. It does not seem to be affected by the cnc. I don.t know the other way around and might be a different story when I.ll wire the vfd.
There is also the metal control box, with some terminals in the left side, put there only because the terminals on the drivers, due to so much troubleshoot and rewiring seemed to go weak, and so any future fixing, will be done on this new ones.

And here.s a test video for some movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiXk...ature=youtu.be
It was a lot jerkier a month ago. Not sure how good it is now, though, as all the articles I read say to tune the motors and speeds until they sound good, and honestly I have no idea what this good sound, sounds like.
The settings in motor turning are 800 rev, 600 vel, 50 acc. At this speed, the y axis which is very heavy, seems to shake just a little at an abrupt stop. The other two, could be set to go faster, but as Clive says, one thing at a time.

What do you think?

Quote:

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The settings in motor turning are 800 rev, 600 vel, 50 acc. At this speed, the y axis which is very heavy, seems to shake just a little at an abrupt stop. The other two, could be set to go faster

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Well it looks like you are getting there. Its always nice to see another machine come to life.

Now when you command the machine to move say 200mm does it move exactly 200mm or something different.

Try putting G1 X100 f300 into the MDI and press enter. The X axis should move 100mm

Re the earth rod For a test you could just knock a metre long metal rod into the ground and connect it to the incoming mains ground. If it works then get a copper coated rod.

Ok. I.ll try the gcode and come back with a result.
Do you think it will work with a larger diameter copper pipe like those used for plumbing/heating? The soil is quite soft here, so driving it a meter into the ground would not be a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Ok. I.ll try the gcode and come back with a result.
Do you think it will work with a larger diameter copper pipe like those used for plumbing/heating? The soil is quite soft here, so driving it a meter into the ground would not be a problem.

---

that should be fine - the longer length you can drive in the better unless you hit a drain :blue: You could then fill the pipe with water to make a good earth (not a joke!).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Ok. I.ll try the gcode and come back with a result.
Do you think it will work with a larger diameter copper pipe like those used for plumbing/heating? The soil is quite soft here, so driving it a meter into the ground would not be a problem.

---

As Rob has said.

Here we get easily -20 degrees celsius in the winter, so drains are quite a steep angle, and I doubt there.s any water in there. I could solder a cap on the copper pipe and fill it with water. The issue is that I can drive it very deep outside the workshop, but the upper 20-30 cm of the water filled pipe will freeze along with the ground, and probably crack, so goodbye water, and the second option is to drive it beneath my workshop where I have a rudimentary form of what you call a cellar in the Uk, and it.s freeze proof, but I doubt I.ll manage to drive it more than 50 cm, as beneath 2 meters, the soils become quite rocky.

Now about the g code, putting g1 x100 f300 into mdi, moves the axis 50 cm.
All ballscrews are 5mm pitch, and the toothed pulleys on the Z are at a ratio of 2:1, 20 teeth for the stepper and 40 for the screw, so I.m sure I.ll have to mention this somewhere in mach3.
Although the steppers do not make a uniform sound all the time and have small hickups now and then, running the x axis 20 cm to the right, and then returning it to where is was, measured with a dial indicator, is dead accurate.

Rob mentioned an earth spike. I can find locally steel and zinc ones, and copper coated just online. I don.t mind buying a spike, it.s just that I already have some copper pipe.

The water in the pipe is only to drain down and wet the soil at a depth to make a better contact, so it doesn't matter if the pipe cracks with frost (which is unlikely if open at the top). If your soil is very wet normally, then it is probably an overkill. Copper pipe is as good, maybe better than a plated steel rod.

Quote:

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Now about the g code, putting g1 x100 f300 into mdi, moves the axis 50 cm.
All ballscrews are 5mm pitch, and the toothed pulleys on the Z are at a ratio of 2:1, 20 teeth for the stepper and 40 for the screw, so I.m sure I.ll have to mention this somewhere in mach3.

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Ok I found this for you:-

In Mach3, go to the Settings Tab, and select "Set Steps Per Unit". It will ask you how far to move the machine. Before you do this, make a mark on the table exactly where the end mill is resting. You can do this by lowering the end mill until it touches the material, then spinning it by hand to cut a small dimple in the material. Then, raise the end mill to clear the material, and assign a distance to move the machine. Once the machine moves and stops, measure the exact distance that it actually traveled with a tape measure, and enter this value into the dialog box that asks how far it moved. Mach3 will automatically adjust your steps per unit for that axis to be more accurate. Do this for all axes often to ensure you are cutting accurately. The longer distances you use calibrate, and the more precise you are with your measurements, the better.

Taking on your advice, and speaking to an electrician, a retired one in this case, he said they use to drive 3 spikes into the ground, a few meters apart, and weld a connection between them, so that the earth might match the live, and have a specific ohm readings, so that the fuse will work properly. He used to practice he.s craft many years ago, so not sure if his knowledge it.s still valid with this new fuses.
Also said that the large metal structure from the photo has a very solid grounding structure going on, so I might use this. That is a high voltage system, and I.m not sure if it goes well with 220v systems.
That.s the best I could find today, as we have a holiday going on, but will check with the up to date electrician as well.
Will fix this earthing problem asap.

Meanwhile, I,ll do some research about this gearing inputs I need to make.

Thank you.

Meanwhile just knock a copper tube in and connect to you mains earth. It has to be better that getting small electric shocks :encouragement:

In settings tab, I typed I want to move it 50, and it did move 150, and mach 3 set it to 160 steps. Now in mdi tab, I typed g1 x100 f300, it moved 100mm but very very slow.
The driver setting is at 800.

I did try g1 x100 f2000 but still slow, so I honestly have no clue what this means, if it.s just the the speed used in this setup, or the speed of the machine, or anything else. As I said, I need to study some basic things about this, so I would guess it.s easier if you.d guide me towards some reading material rather than test your patience, which was already strained since I started this topic.

P.s. John mentioned the spike. Rob clarified the water filling method.
My mistake. Sorry.

Quote:

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In settings tab, I typed I want to move it 50, and it did move 150, and mach 3 set it to 160 steps. Now in mdi tab, I typed g1 x100 f300, it moved 100mm but very very slow.
The driver setting is at 800.

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Ok so now you have it moving the correct amount on the X axis.. Now change the driver steps to 1600 and do the same test re calibration. Also tell us what you have set the settings for on the motor tuning page Mach3

Just test with one axis first

re the spike, it is the same as earth rod . Re the water it was just to wet the ground around the rod to lower the resistance of the earth.

Don't worry about the questions, we have all been there at some point.

edit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3fu...M7iZbmHUxO7K-u

ok. i cut the power to the drivers, and changed to 1600 (on, off, on, on), and tried again, and now it moved half the distance, example move 50, and it did 25, and mach 3 set it to 320. typing in mdi the same thing, it moves the right distance typed in but somewhat faster.

in motor turning, the "steps per" is set by this test, velocity 600 mm per minute, acceleration 50, G's 0.0050988, step pulse, dir pulse both to 0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

ok. i cut the power to the drivers, and changed to 1600 (on, off, on, on), and tried again, and now it moved half the distance, example move 50, and it did 25, and mach 3 set it to 320. typing in mdi the same thing, it moves the right distance typed in but somewhat faster.

in motor turning, the "steps per" is set by this test, velocity 600 mm per minute, acceleration 50, G's 0.0050988, step pulse, dir pulse both to 0

---

Ok you are now moving the correct amount. You now have to alter the vel. 600mm is slow try 1200mm then 2400mm . You have to ajust the vel. and accc. for your specific machine.

The vel. is the max the machine can do. Ie if you set the feed rate with your settings (600mm) it will be clamped to that. So if you say f2000 it can't go any faster than 600

Did you watch the vid?

I did watch the video. I.ve seen it a month ago when I first installed mach 3, but did it again to see what I.ve missed.
I attributed the frame shake related to a gantry hard stop, with a sign that I.ve reached the speed limit on the machine, on the Y axis for example.
If it could accelerate and decelerates slower while running a g code, it could travel quite faster, but I don.t know if it.s possible. And honestly it.s not a requierment for me, as I.m not into large quantity production, but rather in custom or special products approach. For example, the first projects that I need are plexiglas stencils used to decorate some furniture with a traditional motif.

There is a guy called Roger Webb on youtube which does some decorative wood projects, and the cutting time for a 50 by 50 cm sculpture ranges between 2 to 4 hours in 2 cuts. I.m aiming for that, and I don.t think that is a high expectation but do correct me of I.m wrong.

I.ll test some speeds, but what am I looking for? How else can I know the max the machine can do?

Problem 1

So I installed a new earth connection and it was all great, until something weird happened. Up till midday, jogging the cnc went just fine, then after that for a couple of hours it worked like shit, meaning that the steppers were running in such a manner that the ballscrews was shaking, and even stalling a couple of times, all 3 of them on all 3 axis, and testing it in the evening again, it works fine again. I.ve reduced once again the driver setup to 800 steps, assuming that maybe the 1600 was the problem, but no. It does not matter.
It. been a bit stormy in the evenings, and sometimes the lights were flashing in the workshop, but not in relation with the performance of the machine. Strangely enough, it was working just fine when the light were flashing. (it may not be the correct word, but I mean, the lights were changing their intensity at short intervals of time), and around 1pm, when it was sunny and nice, the cnc was taking the piss.
This was yesterday. Today, I.ve tested again, and jogging it, it worked fine for a few minutes, and after that, the motors changed their noise and the shaking occured again. Like it shakes the ballscrews and so the whole gantry. Sometimes, pressing reset in mach 3 it makes the problem go away for a minute or so, and then it happens again. Then exiting mach 3 and coming back later, it seems ok again, for some time. The steppers sound fine and smooth, and just like that they change their noise and have a jerky movement. On and off, without any patern I can notice so far.

So at least we.ve excluded the ground problem. What else can cause this? Fluctuations in the electrical voltage? amperage to low set for drivers (4.9A Peak, 3.5A RMS set now, next setting is 5.7A peak, and on the steppers it says 5.6A, but the driver can go up to 7.8A peak, 5.6A rms)?

Problem 2

I wired up the vfd, I change Parameter 1 and 2 to value of ..2..(for communication port control), then wired the 4 control wires like posted before ..the gnd pin goes to ACM, the 0-10v to V1, 1st relay pin (5th in order) to DCM, and 2nd relay pin to FOR., and then in mach 3, in motor outputs, I enabled the spindle, step pin 1, dir pin 0, dir lowactive and step I tried in all ways, step port and dir port both to 1, then in output signals I enabled output 1, port 1, pin 17, active low not checked, then spindle setup, relay control with disable spindle relay not checked, motor control with ..use spindle motor output.. and ..pwm control.. both checked and pwm base freq to 100, then in spindle pulleys, nr1 max speed 24000.
And it does not work. It does nothing when i press spindle cw f5, although the relay clicks on, and the voltage at terminal 0-10v is 9.54v The vfd just shows 0000000 on the screen.
What have I done wrong?

Re Prob 1. I would suggest that it could be the power supplies I think yours are regulated type and if the mains is fluctuating that might be why your motors are giving you grief. If you can get hold of a toroidal power supply you might find the problems go away as the caps would help to smooth it out.

Hi Clive. I.ve just encountered today a very suspicious thing, which makes me think the issue is in the pc, or pc setup thing. Running drivertest.exe in mach3 folder, I get mostly a flat line, system excellent message and some pulsing to fast and pulsing to slow sometimes. But running the same exe, and having the mach3 open, and simply moving the mach3 window on the desktop, without pressing anything, the drivertest.exe goes wild, huge spikes all over, and always displays pulsing to slow. As soon as you stop moving the window, it.s returning to normal.
You can see in this video what I.m talking about. Sorry I did not hold the camera still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFY8...ature=youtu.be

Also here it is the exact behaviour of the cnc. Please skip at minute 1.05 to see the issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlV...ature=youtu.be

In device manager, under My Computer it says ACPI x32. There are some articles that say I should change that to Standard Pc. I don.t have this option, so I guess I should reinstall windows. Others say that changing that creates problems and windows might not load anymore.
I.m a bit confused about all this but I.m strongly inclining to believe that here lies the source of all my problems.

Hi. Could you please tell me what do I need or I should look for in a pc, in order to make it work with the cnc? Are there any specifics, motherboard, video card, x64 with additions or x32.
This pc I have, receives the windows installation only via cdrom, and this does not work ok all the time, as the installation did fail a couple of times before making it work.
I have another pc, a bit better, but still old, dual 3ghz, 512 vram, 8gb ram, but the paralel port thing did not exist on it, so I had to buy a separate one.
Should I troubleshhot the existent pc or buy a new one? And if yes, which one?

You don't need anything special as far as I'm concerned.
I put mine together from spares I had lying around ages ago when I intended to use it. Which I then dug out of the loft after it was left unused for about 8 years.

For running 3 axis Mach3 from the parallel port my spec is:
Old Gigabyte socket 775 Matx board.
Intel Celeron 2.2ghz.
2GB DDR2 ram.
320GB Maxtor SATA HDD.
Windows XP 32bit.
Using the on board graphics.

Works like an absolute champ.
You only need a decent machine for CAD drawing and CAM post processing.

I'm in the process of getting the equipment together for a second mill I plan on converting and the PC spec this time (another loft find) will be:
Very old E-machines socket 486 board.
Celeron 1.8ghz.
2GB DDR2.
300GB IDE HDD.
On board graphics.
Windows XP 32bit.
I will use this PC on the existing 3 axis X2 and the other PC will go on the new mill as I'm putting all the electronics in place for up to 5 axis.

Apparently Mach3 doesn't play well with a 64bit OS when using the parallel port but I never tried it. That's why I have a 32bit basic one for Mach3 and better 64bit one for the CAD/CAM.

Hi Dasp1976,
I.ve bought some time ago a dell precision m4800 for the future CAD/CAM works.

Running the Cnc, I don have anything special at the moment:
Intel Pentium dual cpu e2180 2.00ghz 2.00ghz
2gb RAM, 32bit operating system
video card intel 829456 express chipset family
128gb SSD, windows 7 home premium with windows 7 basic theme
paralel port built in

in device manager, in Computer, i have only 2 drivers available: ACPIx86 based pc, and Advanced Config and Power Interface (ACPI) PC. I don.t have Standard PC option. Some people say that this can be a fix for steppers missing steps, or making strange noises.
here is a link to someone who is talking about this issue. skip at min 4.30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n18OTfjbFp4

also in device manager, in Mach3 Pulseing Engine, I have Mach3 Driver version 6.1.0.0 (4/20/2011)

I.m mentioning all this because, running DriverTest in Mach3 installation folder, I get all 3, Pulsing to slow/Pulsing to fast/System excellent messages. If I move or drag any window on the desktop, while the DriverTest is running, I get lots of spikes in that otherwise straight line. Some people say that changing the driver mentioned above to Standard PC will fix this issue, but I could not find what to do if this driver is not available in the option list.

But I guess, as this pc units are very cheap, it does not worth spending so much time troubleshooting the one I have.
I.ve read dell 760.s work fine, but this are core2duo.
You mention single core machines, intel celeron and windows xp. Seems a safer and more stable choise. I.ve found a couple online, to my surprise.
I.ll get back when I have one.

Thank you for your reply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Hi Dasp1976,
I.ve bought some time ago a dell precision m4800 for the future CAD/CAM works.

Running the Cnc, I don have anything special at the moment:
Intel Pentium dual cpu e2180 2.00ghz 2.00ghz
2gb RAM, 32bit operating system
video card intel 829456 express chipset family
128gb SSD, windows 7 home premium with windows 7 basic theme
paralel port built in

in device manager, in Computer, i have only 2 drivers available: ACPIx86 based pc, and Advanced Config and Power Interface (ACPI) PC. I don.t have Standard PC option. Some people say that this can be a fix for steppers missing steps, or making strange noises.
here is a link to someone who is talking about this issue. skip at min 4.30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n18OTfjbFp4

also in device manager, in Mach3 Pulseing Engine, I have Mach3 Driver version 6.1.0.0 (4/20/2011)

I.m mentioning all this because, running DriverTest in Mach3 installation folder, I get all 3, Pulsing to slow/Pulsing to fast/System excellent messages. If I move or drag any window on the desktop, while the DriverTest is running, I get lots of spikes in that otherwise straight line. Some people say that changing the driver mentioned above to Standard PC will fix this issue, but I could not find what to do if this driver is not available in the option list.

But I guess, as this pc units are very cheap, it does not worth spending so much time troubleshooting the one I have.
I.ve read dell 760.s work fine, but this are core2duo.
You mention single core machines, intel celeron and windows xp. Seems a safer and more stable choise. I.ve found a couple online, to my surprise.
I.ll get back when I have one.

Thank you for your reply.

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I can't see having single/dual core making much difference (although I could be wrong)
If it was me. Before I did anything in terms of spending I'd see if I could get hold of a copy of windows XP (for nowt) first.
Then:
1: Create a new partition on the windows7 machine large enough to fit an OS.
2: Install XP on that partition. (will then give you the option of booting to either in the early stages)
3. Boot to XP instead of 7.
4: Go to the MS back catalogue and install the service pack3 update: http://www.catalog.update.microsoft....arch.aspx?q=xp
5: Install Mach3 and see how it runs on XP on the same machine.
I'm not bothered about even trying win7 because XP works with it.

If the machine still plays up then just delete the partition with XP on and the machine will still have win7 to either keep for something else or sell on.

Will do precisely.
Thank you.

Well an update.
Just tested my old socket 478 pc's and both psu's are dead. Go figure.
They want £23 for another power supply (used) (SFF type).
Just bought a Dell 780 myself with 4GB ram, win 10, for less than £10 more.
I have a sata drive lying around so when it comes I'll be installing that in the 2nd bay and running XP leaving win 10 untouched just in case for re-sale purposes.
If I end up having dual core issues I'll be selling the core 2 and getting a Celeron the same as my other (both socket 775).
Ugh!.

I guess I.m the only one naive enough to believe that you just turn on the cnc and it will work like a charm for years. In truth it seems all kind of issues come up.
Hope you.ll get your new dell pc work just fine, and dual core it.s not the problem. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazp1976

Just tested my old socket 478 pc's and both psu's are dead. Go figure.

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Probably the capacitors have gone. Especially if they have just been sitting doing nothing for years. MoBos suffer the same, look at the big electrolytics to see if they are bulging.

Andrei - it looks as though you have a rubbish supply from the pole. You already have an earth fault, maybe you have a poor supply due to a corroded connection.

Clive - is it not possible to put some big caps on the output of the SMPS's. Don't they have quite a wide input voltage range anyway ?

Quote:

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Clive - is it not possible to put some big caps on the output of the SMPS's. Don't they have quite a wide input voltage range anyway ?

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I was going to suggest that but never done it with SMPS's But would be worth a go.

Clive mentioned a toroidal power supply in order to fix the rubbishness of the pole supply. From what I read online, it.s a transformer, a bridge diode and a few caps, with a DC output.
Does this not mean that I.m actually replacing my switching power supplies that came with the cnc kit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Clive mentioned a toroidal power supply in order to fix the rubbishness of the pole supply. From what I read online, it.s a transformer, a bridge diode and a few caps, with a DC output.
Does this not mean that I.m actually replacing my switching power supplies that came with the cnc kit?

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Andrei - don't go chucking money about until we can get a proper understanding of the problem.

Hi Rob.
At this point I can only exclude one problem at a time, and each modification requires money in a form or another. Not my favorite approach, but that.s how it is.
I think I just ˇˇresolvedˇˇ the desktop pc, as I did try installing windows xp sp3 x86 on a separate partition, and it failed at first attempt, and then it seemed to go through, and now the pc would not load anymore. I can.t even get into Bios. It loads the first screen, and it stays like this forever. I can press Del for setup and it says it is entering setup but nothing happens, and with Tab the same thing, and f8 for Bbs popup which does nothing as well.
Attachment 24716
Attachment 24717
I installed really hard windows 7 as well a while ago. It just failed so many times, but I could repeat the process. Now I can.t. Only dvds seems to work, no usb or sd.

which is the boot drive ?


try booting the PC with no drives connected
and see if you can get into the bios

If you can
try connecting the DVD drive and see if it will boot from the windows installation disk

if that works
next try adding the IDE drive

and then the crucial solid state drive


if all 3 drives are connected to the IDE ribbon cables

you can only connect one master and one slave to each cable


it looks like all three drives are set to master !

if you have two master devices on one IDE ribbon cable
that could stop the motherboard from booting and take a very long time to respond to attempts to boot in to the bios

do you have 3 IDE ports ?

John

Hi John,
I.ve changed in Bios the boot drive to be the dvd drive, right before installing.
I.ll try tomorrow what you.ve just said in removing all things and testing.
I don.t know what an IDE drive is or how many ports I have.
Here.s a photo with the motherboard.
Attachment 24721

That Mobo has 4 SATA and 1 IDE port. The IDE port will support two devices and I would recommend you use Cable Select on the IDE drives look at this ---- https://support.hp.com/gb-en/document/bph03792 With Cable select the master is the first drive i.e. on the end cable connector and the slave is on the middle connector
SATA does not have that option and I see that the small drive cable tied to the box is SATA.

If you can set up XP on a separate drive, I would recommend it and don't mess about with dual booting. It looks as though you have a corrupt MBR (Master Boot Record).

The Mobo manual is here if you need it https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmr7ucg4kw..._1333.pdf?dl=0

this photo lead me to think your PC had IDE drives
connected by a 40 way ribbon cable

Attachment 24722

your later photo of the motherboard shows the newer (red) SATA cable connected to the solid state drive


Attachment 24724

as your mother board is the E3363_P5GC-MX_1333

it only has SATA ports



so you can ignore my comment about only having
a master & a slave device connected to a 40 way ribbon cable

just test the motherboard with no drives
then add one drive at a time to see if you have a faulty drive
stopping the board from booting

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john swift

as your mother board is the E3363_P5GC-MX_1333

it only has SATA ports

so you can ignore my comment about only having
a master & a slave device connected to a 40 way ribbon cable

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Although the photo does not make it clear, that Motherboard has an Ultra DMA IDE port and from the BIOS start-up screen, it looks as though Andrei has an 80way cable with a HDD and a CD-Rom connected, both plugged up on the jumpers as Masters. As I said CS (cable select) is a safer way to go. If XP has been installed on the SSD, then I would unplug the IDE HDD and see if it boots up. Although you may have to alter boot priority in the BIOS settings.