Comments sought on new build: A CNC Router for RC Gliders and Planes

You might want to use more.. 75mm on walls and 100+ on roof and the version with a vapour barrier built in unless you want to leave an air gap between the Celotex and the shed wall. If you search on the thread of my (now temporarily aborted) workshop build you'll find a discussion on thermal calcs you might find useful.

Cheers Irving, I'll check out that thread.

A couple mor photos of this afternoon's progress. Not huge amounts as I only had a couple of hours and I forgot to fetch my step ladders so couldn't finish the roof.

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. .You made it out of lolly pop sticks .. . :hysterical: . . . . Looking good.:thumsup:

Good job on the shed, it's gone up in double quick time. If you want some more information on insulating a shed have a look over on UKWorkshop. Shed builds come up fairly often and the question of insulation must have come up dozens of times. The other problem that comes up often with sheds is condensation on tools, people have come up with some ingenious ideas for ways to stop things going rusty but the best option seems to pretty much always be ventilation.

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Originally Posted by Wobblycogs

The other problem that comes up often with sheds is condensation on tools, people have come up with some ingenious ideas for ways to stop things going rusty but the best option seems to pretty much always be ventilation.

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It's very wet up here in Cumbria so I have the shed pretty much sealed and use a dehumidifier. Because my material is hardwood it keeps the moisture content of that right too.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

. .You made it out of lolly pop sticks .. . :hysterical: . . . . Looking good.:thumsup:

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Big lolly pop sticks :) quite surprising that its just slotted together without much fastening...4 storm braces are all that's stopping the roof from blowing off! I'll take their word that that's enough to do the job!!

I know it's a bit of a cop out but at some time in the next 12 - 18 months I'll be moving house as this one is rented (somewhere bigger and preferably with a garage) so I don't want to make a shed/workshop that is too difficult to dismantle (with this one I just take the roof off and pull apart the lollypop sticks :thumsup:) so I'm a bit loathed to start battening the interior, putting insulation on and then boarding out. However I do see the need to insulate and make damp proof as I'll have my RC stuff in there as well as my CNC router. The other thing is that if I start fixing battens to the walls then I'm stopping the walls from expanding and contracting which is what the manufacturer says you have to do (and who am I to argue!!) so in a bit of a quandary. I think I'll settle for thinner than optimal insulation and look at how I'm going to fix the battening (slotted fixings perhaps?) but all this is immaterial until I can finish the shed off which I'm hoping to do after work this week!!

Obviously not a job for now but looking at the way the shed is built I wonder if you could attach insulation to the outside? The ears would act as a natural edge for the insulation and somewhere to fix light boarding. It looks like you have pretty good overhang on the roof everywhere but the back so you might be good to go. It would be good to maintain the space on the inside and it would make hanging tools up easier - just bang a nail in.

There's about 8" of overhang all round so I guess it could be an option?

8x4 sheets of celotex would just wedge into place between floor and ceiling with maybe a batten top and bottom, same with the roof, they would wedge in those beams nicely with minimal fixing.

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Originally Posted by Wobblycogs

Obviously not a job for now but looking at the way the shed is built I wonder if you could attach insulation to the outside? The ears would act as a natural edge for the insulation and somewhere to fix light boarding. It looks like you have pretty good overhang on the roof everywhere but the back so you might be good to go. It would be good to maintain the space on the inside and it would make hanging tools up easier - just bang a nail in.

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Great idea Wobbly.... Now that's what I really call..... Thinking Outside The Box!

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Originally Posted by WandrinAndy

Great idea Wobbly.... Now that's what I really call..... Thinking Outside The Box!

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Good one Andy!! The only issue with doing the outside of the shed/log cabin is that it obscures the logs which look better than shiplap (in my opinion)...

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Originally Posted by njhussey

The only issue with doing the outside of the shed/log cabin is that it obscures the logs which look better than shiplap (in my opinion)...

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You can buy loglap.. If that's you sort of thing!

Worth warning that your walls might shrink a bit in height. So if you batten directly to them, without giving them room to move or you might get some gaps. Looks really smart inside.

~andy, I don't really want to buy more loglap to put over the outside to make it look like a log cabin again (seems silly to cover it up and then pay extra to make it look like it did before you covered it up in the first place...!!) so will probably go for insulating on the inside and losing some room inside. Will probably batten horizontally (air gap) then put Celotex insulation against this and then sheets of ply 12mm thick.

Was hoping to finish the roof off yesterday on the shed but it was raining all last night and tonight I'm out so it's going to have to be Friday. I've only got another 12 or so boards to put on and then the felt so should only be a couple of hours work, although manhandling the felt roll on the roof will be fun! Oh and I need to attach the guttering. Hoping to visit B&Q and get some 3x2 to make a workbench frame at some stage soon as well so I can crack on with my build (and build a couple of new RC helicopters...)

Last night I ordered the THK (15mm) & NSK (20mm) linear rails from eBay so this project is starting to move on a bit now at last. Managed to get a 1190mm long pair of 15mm rails with 8 blocks so I can cut it down to 750mm and 420mm and get both Y & Z axis rails out of it, worked out cheaper than buying 2 separate lots. Total for the rails was £405 including shipping, so I'll get caught for some import duty but not too much I hope. Just had notice that they've been shipped so I'd best get busy finalising my design and start fabricating the frame :eagerness: Going to order the ballscrews today from Chai...

Thinking of getting an Evolution Fury 5 table saw to cut my Aluminium plate into the correct sizes as they say (and show on the videos) that it can cut aluminium and steel...we'll see!

Just swapped the supported round rail for linear rails and also turned the Z axis 180° so the chips will not collect on the ballscrew or mount. I've also dropped the Z axis stepper behind the upright and it will be connected by belt (1605 with 1:1 connection to the stepper) It will have a cover over/round it and I'll look at making a cover for the rest of the Z axis. I've now gained 50mm of Z travel so total travel now 200mm. For the Z axis rail mounts I've had to raise them on some 20mm plate strips to get the 1605 ballscrew in there. Will have to make a low profile mount but that's the least of my worries!

Changing the X axis to single stepper and belt drive, yet to work out the finer details of supporting/tensioning pulleys.

Anything that you peeps can see that could do with altering? I've tried to keep most of the plates with straight edges so I can cut them myself. the only ones I've left with curves and machining are the Y axis end plates. I could always make these with straight edges and no machining!

The actual router frame is removable from the upright frame so that If so wished it can be put on a flat surface if ever required. Also for working on (pouring epoxy resin for levelling the rails for example) it will be easier than trying to tip the whole frame.

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i really like it neil.

stupid question, and one im sure you have already though about it, but incase you havent, the total height (when on vertical stand) is going to fit in your new shed right? cant remember your total dimensions...

Thank you!!

Yes shed is 2.4m at the apex and just over 2m at the sides. This is 1.8m total height....also got double doors so can get it in and out again...

also... dont get stung like i did initially on the accessable area... remember you have lots of wasted accessable area at the top of your machine... where you could perhaps extend the bed or add a vice etc... and there is a void of unaccesssable space at the bottom...Attachment 10098

I was thinking about that earlier. I was going to shorten the bottom and put a vice on but then decided to reverse the Y axis to stop chips from collecting on the ballscrew and bearings. Don't fancy having a vice at the top but might shorten the bed and make provision for a 4th axis.

The cutting area I was aiming for was 1000mm x 500mm and this just about gives me this so was going to leave as is but you've tempted me to have another look :whistle:

Ok here's things I see with this and learnt from mine being vertical.

The Machine frame, (not holding frame) needs much more bracing esp at the open ends. The 2 short uprights will flex if not braced well, triangulate much has possible.

Chips which fly up will collect in several places on way down so think about covers or deflector guards. Collection areas are:
#1 Against the rails on Y axis so on the top side just in front of rail with enough clearance for bearing to slide by put a short angled deflector/catch plate which they hit first and slide off.

#2 The Ball-nut mounts so again some form of angled deflector plate wrapping over the mount with hole for screw to pass thru, won't hurt to build in a wiper seal has well. Chips don't collect so much on screw but they do around the ballnut where screw enters on top side so this is the target area to keep chip free.

#3 The bottom bearing mounts.! Same deal just some form of deflector guard so chips hit that first and bounce off.

#4 THE BIG ONE . . .Complete Z axis cover needed FROM THE START. While turning 180deg you have lessened the chip collection points BUT they will get in there and the ONLY way is full cover. They are easy made with thin Ali plate and weigh nothing not the prettiest things but very affective. Something Like this
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Also while turning 180deg helps keep chips off rear of front plate it will also make it very awkward for when your changing tools.? The way you have it When doing jobs with several tools you'll have to lower gantry to reach spindle properly and that will mean leaning over gantry so will be very awkward.
Much better to raise gantry and access spindle from below, I have my screen setup with tool change position where gantry goes to top and Z axis parks in centre of gantry. This brings me to #5

#5 Not chip related but relates to parking the machine when not used. You want to build in some bump stops at the bottom and when not using park it there to release any tension on motors/screws/belts etc.
On my machine I just have some thick rubber dougnuts with slit in which slip over screws and sandwich between bottom bearing mount and ballnut which i slowly drive upto, simple but affective.! . . But if was building from scratch like you then I'd build in some permanent bump stops, either fixed or flip up jobs.?

#6 Not a biggie but still worth doing else it will annoy I'm sure.?. . . Put the side covers on the inside of frame not outside has again chips will collect and build up, have the inside walls smooth and uninterrupted and chips will slide nice into box below.

That's it for now if spot owt else i'll shout. .Lol

Edit: All the above with exception of beefing up frame work are Minor things and even if left uncovered won't affect machine working properly just annoying and over time will cause premature wear which is easily avoided with simple deflectors or covers.
Don't necessarily need to cover every thing just deflect chips away.!!

Said I shout up if seen anything else, well I have. . Lol

Looks like you are thinking to use the slotted front gantry style.? Well the way yo have it now it will eventually fill up with chips. .. Doh.
. . Even with brush guards they will get thru.!

The slotted gantry is great because it keeps every thing neat tidy and protected and it will work perfect turned other way just not this way. . .Sorry.!

Cheers Jazz ill look at the design again and take into account your comments...

This afty was finishing the shed off. Well nearly as got to go out in a bit so had to stop. Its all done apart from the boards on the roof edge at one end but as the boards need altering I've run out if time. Given it a coat of clear preservative so should be ok when it rains. Still needs another couple of coats to be on the safe side.

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Looking good Neil.

I'm a little concerned thou that your going to put a heavy frame of that flimsy looking wooden floor.!! Let me tell you when this machine gets moving around it will Rock that shed so much you'll think Pink Floyd is in there.. Lol

You will Seriously need to strengthen floor and brace the inside walls for the size machine you have planned, honestly can stress the amount of inertia and movement the machine will send thru that shed if frame and structure is not Rock solid will blow your mind.
When my my machine was horizontal and not bolted to floor then on full tilt it would easily walk about the workshop when doing jobs with lots or direction changes.
Even now it's vertical and bolted to Concrete block wall if I put my hand on wall when cutting fast materials like woods I can feel the wall vibrate so your shed walls will quiver like a jelly if not solid.!

Dean, the plan is to put a second floor of 18mm ply screwed to it and then bolt the machine through the floor and into the base which has 12 4" x 4" posts concreted into the ground. I'll insulate the walls with Celotex and skin it with 12mm ply. This will be screwed to the walls and braced round the top and bottom. Its only a temporary shed/workshop until we move so hopefully it won't shake itself to bits before then!!

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Originally Posted by njhussey

Dean, the plan is to put a second floor of 18mm ply screwed to it and then bolt the machine through the floor and into the base which has 12 4" x 4" posts concreted into the ground.

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Ah Ok that sounds a good plan I'd hate for you to tip your new shed over on first job. . Lol

Michael Marino has his machine in similar sized shed which is super organised with shelf's etc and I remember when took it up to him saying about machine shaking shed and stuff falling off. . . . He'd only had crappy merchant dice snail before this machine and think he thought I was joking.!! . . . He soon realised I wasn't when it tried to walk off the bench and out the door. . . Lol . . . . . And that was at half it's capable speed.!!

That machine and gantry was half the size and weight yours will be.!!!!! . . . . Fasten it well.. .Lol

Ordered one lot of linear rails 1190mm long with 8 blocks on Thursday night, they arrived from Korea today at 8.45am......that's fast...straight through and no stopping at customs (if you know what I mean :yahoo: ) These I'll cut into two lengths, one 750mm long for the Y axis and one 420mm long for the Z axis. Ordered the ballscrews from Chai today so waiting on one more lot of linear rails (1390mm long for X axis) and the ballscrews and then I can start the build in earnest!

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The shed's looking good as are the rails. I got stung for fifty quid and a two and half week delay with the rails I imported, I obviously don't have any luck at the moment.

I was lucky, not complaining as I've always had the fee (which I don't mind as it's the law) on imported stuff so a bit of a change. You got your steppers and drivers yet? Which ones you going for? I was thinking of the Leadshine AM882 from Zapp and the Nema 23 3.1Nm stepper motors from cnc4you...plus looking at making my own (gulp...) PSU.

Erm, snap on all items (even where I was planning on buying them) :glee:. From what I've read they seem like a good combination of parts. I'd probably have made some purchases by now but I've been looking into getting one of these PMDX-107 for spindle control. I doubt I'll set up spindle control straight away but if I can order the part at the same time as the BOB that would be good. I take it you've seen this thread about building a PSU?

Sounds like yours and my machines electrics will be the same :encouragement: I was going to look into the closed loop system but for what I'll be using it for I couldn't really justify the extra. I've also been looking at that as I was wondering if I could use the PWM output to control my RC Speed Controller which will be powering my spindle. Sounds like some combined purchases could be made here!!! Yes seen a few threads, I'm fine mechanically but anything electrical leaves me cold...

I own a soldering iron and I even switched it on once...

I'm actually quite interested in the electronics I just don't really have time to learn as much about it as I would like. I think I'll probably build the PSU as it's only a dozen or so components, more complicated magic will have to wait.

If you want to get together for a brain storm on the electrics or to put together a combined purchase just give me a shout.

More than happy to get together for a brainstorm on the electrics, would be good if we both have the same as then we can help each other out (seeing as we only live a couple of miles apart!) in case of problems. I'm definitely going to build my own PSU but will need to check from the experts on here that I'm getting the correct parts.


Will give you a shout when it's time to get the electrics, in turn give me a shout if you're ready before me to get them as I'm going to concentrate on the build of the frame first as the electrical bits have a 12 month warranty and I'll want that to be as near as possible to the end of the build...

Attachment 10146Attachment 10147Attachment 10150OK Dean, switched the gantry around again to how it was before. Have put a folded aluminium enclosure over the Z axis, on the bottom of the Z there will be a rubber cover (5mm thick rubber with cut outs for the rails) to stop chips going up into the bearings. Have put deflectors on the X axis to stop chips hitting the linear rail, also put a deflector down the bottom so chips slide into the bin. Have altered the ballscrew mounting so it's on 20mm block and not the aluminium box section as I'm not using that anymore. I will also put a cover over the X axis belt and steppers.

Couple of questions now...

1. I'm going to use 1 stepper and belt (T5, 15mm wide) and pulleys to drive the X axis, what number teeth pulleys would you recommend? I take it that it's worth getting spare pulleys and belts so that the option of 1:1 and 1:2 (stepper to ballscrew) is available?
2. For the belt idlers/tensioners I was going to use skate bearings (as I've got sh*t loads of them) and penny washers, I couldn't see any specific idlers for the belts?

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Originally Posted by njhussey

Couple of questions now...

1. I'm going to use 1 stepper and belt (T5, 15mm wide) and pulleys to drive the X axis, what number teeth pulleys would you recommend? I take it that it's worth getting spare pulleys and belts so that the option of 1:1 and 1:2 (stepper to ballscrew) is available?
2. For the belt idlers/tensioners I was going to use skate bearings (as I've got sh*t loads of them) and penny washers, I couldn't see any specific idlers for the belts?

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Depends on how your having belt system.? My machine is setup with 2 pulleys bolted together on one screw with a single pulley on other. A short belt goes from motor to first pulley then connecting belt goes between screws. The ratio is 1:2 motor with 40T and first pulley 20T Connecting pulleys are 36T. I then have 2 spare pulleys for 1:1 or 1:3 ratio 20T & 60T.
Connecting pulleys could easily be 20T for simplicity sake but I just happened to have spare 36T so used them.

Don't go smaller than 20T other wise you don't get good tooth engagement and the belts wear quicker or worse they can jump. I'd also use HTD belts/pulleys not T5 has thou they are very similar the HTD just seem better fitting belt.

Yep skate bearings and large Penny washers work fine for idlers.!!

I was thinking along the lines of this, but measuring it is just over 2000mm long so might have to re-think it...oh and before someone comments I know it will have to be a belt and not a piece of string :rolleyes:

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Nice bit of string you've got there ;-)

Looks like your coming to much the same conclusion I did. I'm sure a belt will work but it's certainly a long belt. I decided I'd rather use two steppers and have the open back that I could shove long work out if needed. Feels like one of those six of one half a dozen of the other decisions.

I'm not planning on being able to shove long work in and out, won't be practical anyway as I'm limited by the roof and floor as mine's almost vertical. I've just added some bracing to the legs so that's made the cutting area smaller with my previous width of Z axis....so I've narrowed it. I'm hoping that it's not too narrow, it's now 145mm wide. I'll have to check the 15mm carriages but I think they'll be ok at that width...

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Just been looking at PV solar panels, leisure batteries and charge controllers for the shed so I can have some 12V LED lighting in there as well as being able to charge my RC LIPOs etc...interesting little project :biggrin:

Broken the different frames out and coloured them so they stand out a bit more, also did it with them all together.

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I've got a friend who's PV mad, he's just bought a load of panels so I can ask him what he's got if you'd like?