New build with recycled parts on a ridiculous budget 120cm*60cm work area

Attachment 22648

PC is on it's way, got GFX card need SSD yesterday ;)

Next stop Fusion lol.

looks like Thor's done a lovely job on those plates!

Looking good!

Got PC and ran into problems but nothing too severe but like always nothing works first time.

Need to swap the motherboard to a new case so I change the PSU as the existing case has a weird small power supply and I'd lose 2 drive bays if I fit gfx card in this machine. Have old mini tower pc's kicking round so not a biggie just hassle.

The other problem my 700w power supply I bought the other day only has 1 6pin pci connector and the card needs 1 6pin and 1 8pin so had to order a dual molex to 8pin adapter which will take a day or 2 to come and that's annoying.

Nothing's ever easy when you're budgeting lol.

The original 300w power supply is one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSP300-60E...gAAOSw3YJZO4uT

which I believe are very good quality power supplies so will keep for some future project or maybe just flog it it is 80 plus certified.

Often when you are to budget focused it actually gets more expensive because you need to modify ;) I go there all the time

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If anyone else needs there PC case modifying I can help ;)

that's some beautiful workmanship, you are a true artist.

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Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy

that's some beautiful workmanship, you are a true artist.

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And like all artists I have my own custom signature this time I signed the internals of the case in my blood ;)

It works ;) a lot faster than my old PC lol not hard was an early quad core.

Got fusion installed so at weekend will spend some time going through the getting started tutorials.

Nice to have your PC working, CliveS point me those tutorials for Fusion360 and I found them very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...h54N-hVtLg5p6u
You might have check them already...

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Originally Posted by Nickhofen

Nice to have your PC working, CliveS point me those tutorials for Fusion360 and I found them very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...h54N-hVtLg5p6u
You might have check them already...

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Will have to check some tutorials out but had a little "free play" last night lots of nice features made a few simple models a lot more intuitive than Turbocad.

What about these for stepper drivers?
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/st...or-dm542t.html

I can probably just about scrape 4 of these and a breakout board next week and run them at 24v until I source a 48v one.

I know not as good as the EM882 I wanted but 1/2 the price and means I can start with linuxcnc.

Had a couple of hours playing in Fusion shocked how easy it is to make models I think it's only going to take me a week to transfer my turbocad skills to fusion the hard part will be the timeline which is quite different to Turbocad but I guess kind of like the part tree.

I have 4 stepper motors and digital drivers very similar to those from when I upgraded my machine. They were running on 40v in my machine.

Could do a bit of a deal on those if you wanted?

OK still need to source the drivers, would using

4 of these
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/st...or-dm542t.html

with 2 of these (2 per motor)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-...YAAOSwaMpZno1f

be suitable for my machine

3 of my nema 23's are 2.8amp (X&Y Axis)
the other one is unknown but based on shaft length, size and weight it's 2 amp (Z Axis).

I was going to go with AM882's but seems overkill for my application and it's unlikely I will make major upgrades down the line to my machine as it makes more sense to build another one and then sell the first one.

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OK still need to source the drivers, would using

4 of these
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/st...or-dm542t.html

with 2 of these (2 per motor)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-...YAAOSwaMpZno1f

be suitable for my machine

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If you are using a slaved axis arrangement then ideally you will need stall or fault protection to stop the gantry racking the AM882 will provide that.

The drives that you linked to seem to recommend 36V.

You could built a toroidal for not much more that would work better.

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Originally Posted by Clive S

If you are using a slaved axis arrangement then ideally you will need stall or fault protection to stop the gantry racking the AM882 will provide that.

The drives that you linked to seem to recommend 36V.

You could built a toroidal for not much more that would work better.

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So what you're saying is stop being a tight ass and do it properly lol, ok point taken!

When it comes to building the PSU will need help :)

I use 2 motors for my X axis, and I bought EM806 drivers primarily because of the stall detect. The EM806 is a later version, effectively, of the AM882. That stall detect has saved my machine from potential damage on a number of occasions when I've got something wrong. Typically, I've hit the e-stop because of some silly setup or gcode issue, and as a result the gantry has gone out of square. Not a lot, but enough to cause one end or other to bind on rapid feed somewhere along the rails. I've wired the fault signals from the stepper drivers into the motion controller and the whole machine then stops before any damage is done by one motor continuing to drive. Resetting and rehoming is a small price to pay. I reckon that if you are going two-motors rather than one-motor-and-a-long-belt, stall detect is pretty much essential.

Have you worked out how you will home the gantry so it is square?

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Originally Posted by Neale

I use 2 motors for my X axis, and I bought EM806 drivers primarily because of the stall detect. The EM806 is a later version, effectively, of the AM882. That stall detect has saved my machine from potential damage on a number of occasions when I've got something wrong. Typically, I've hit the e-stop because of some silly setup or gcode issue, and as a result the gantry has gone out of square. Not a lot, but enough to cause one end or other to bind on rapid feed somewhere along the rails. I've wired the fault signals from the stepper drivers into the motion controller and the whole machine then stops before any damage is done by one motor continuing to drive. Resetting and rehoming is a small price to pay. I reckon that if you are going two-motors rather than one-motor-and-a-long-belt, stall detect is pretty much essential.

Have you worked out how you will home the gantry so it is square?

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I was going to assemble it first then fit (High quality) microswitches both sides of the gantry I need to work out where to fit them because I want them drilled into the aluminium so they can never move, had issues with 3d printer microswitches but they were super cheap, plastic printed mounts a nightmare on the Z. Conversly it's the X&Y that are the hassle with cnc with 3d printing they're nowhere near as important.

I've not looked at Mach 3 or linuxcnc but I have assumed that the microswitchs have some software adjustment to compensate for inaccuracy when fitting the microswitchs I know grbl (And even Marlin for 3d printers both Arduino based) does so would be shocked if they don't.

I figured one step at a time lol make router move and learn Fusion (These are at same time) then start with linuxcnc if I really struggle buy Mach3 but I'd rather use Linuxcnc been a linux used since 2005 big believer in opensource.

I did also consider inductive sensors like I set up on my printer for the Z axis but the microswitchs I'm looking at have very high repeatability and the difference in accuracy between them is marginal, when I checked the datasheets the inductive sensors had a slightly higher accuracy but lower repeatability and in the end they were both in the 0.01mm range with is probably better than my router will be lol.

I have no idea how to make sure the gantry is properly square though in the first place, pretty certain a set square isn't going to cut it lol.

From what I hear, you are probably on a winner with the LCNC approach. When I built my first router around 5 years ago, it had single motors on each axis so gantry squaring wasn't an issue. Just as well as I was using LCNC which had no capability to home each end of the gantry separately. I ended up going to Mach3 and a CSMIO/IP-M motion controller for the Mk2, with twin X motors. This combination works really well - except that it doesn't home each end of the gantry separately either! However, I understand that this is functionality that is now in LCNC so you should be OK when you get to that point. I have a manual process to get round this but it would have been nice to just press a button and have it all happen automatically.

I've had Z axis microswitch issues on my 3D printer - I know what you mean!

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I understand that this is functionality that is now in LCNC so you should be OK when you get to that point. I have a manual process to get round this but it would have been nice to just press a button and have it all happen automatically.

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Yes you are correct but it is only in the master branch (version 2.8) at this time and you can also alter the homing position on each axis in software just by changing an offset in the Machinexxx.ini file

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When it comes to building the PSU will need help

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Have a look at Joe's excellent vids on building one.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...zD30sZjtp_VyqY

Can I mix stepper drivers temporarily? I budgeted it out and can afford 3 Am882 and the power supply today and can borrow a DM542T for a couple of months of my mate.

Could I get away with this setup use the AM882's for X&Y and the DM542T for the Z? I would power the DM542T with the 24v and the AM882 with the new build PSU.

I'd buy another AM882 ASAP obviously but would like to start playing.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Can I mix stepper drivers temporarily? I budgeted it out and can afford 3 Am882 and the power supply today and can borrow a DM542T for a couple of months of my mate.

Could I get away with this setup use the AM882's for X&Y and the DM542T for the Z? I would power the DM542T with the 24v and the AM882 with the new build PSU.

I'd buy another AM882 ASAP obviously but would like to start playing.

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This should work without a problem ;)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

No problem with that - I use EM806 for X and Y, and a recycled M752 from my old router for Z. I was able to use the same 68V PSU for all of them but it's fine to run them off separate supplies if needed.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

I have no idea how to make sure the gantry is properly square though in the first place, pretty certain a set square isn't going to cut it lol.

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Machinist's square is one option, but they are expensive. I got a 200mmx130mm one (square to 0.005mm/150mm or better) from starret for about 80 quid with a 20% off code.

You can make a less perfect square work by flipping it and averaging the results, but once you get into the lower ranges of measurement just the flatness of the edge can become problematic and that's harder to cancel out.

You can also drill a square with diagonals that you can measure with eg a digital calliper (100x100mm square will give an easy to measure distance that your typical digital calliper will reach). Insert some dowels and measure the corner to corner distance. If both corners are equally spaced diagonally then it's square, if one is longer than the other then it's forming a parallelogram and is leaning towards the top corner of the longer diagonal...

One problem you'll probably encounter, which I also have on my current machine, is that your extrusions aren't particularly flat or straight. You will have varying curves along the axis rather than a perfectly straight line which makes fine tuning the squareness extremely difficult if not impossible as it varies from one section of the bed to another... so you just have to do the best you can.

I used the holes-at-corner-of-100mm-square technique to set up my gantry, and it's surprisingly sensitive to small errors. We're not talking super-accurate toolroom standards here, but for woodworking use it's more than good enough. I used a 6mm drill to make the holes and then 4 more with shanks inserted in holes as dowels. A digital caliper is pretty much essential for this as it's difficult to read a vernier caliper when it's in the middle of the bed.

I wrote a little bit of gcode to drill the holes so that I could guarantee approaching each hole in the same direction to take any backlash out of the equation.

Absolutely... you can theoretically detect around 15 seconds of arc with callipers that have 0.01mm resolution using a 100mm square.

That's about 0.004 degrees

If you nail it to within a couple of hundredth's of a mm then you have a pretty damn square machine. Depending on where I do the square on my machine mine it will be anywhere from about 0.02 to 0.09mm out iirc.

Poor photo's but got the final plate today all lines up ;)

I must have made one of the tightest Z axis ever lol

Attachment 22697

Attachment 22698

One more plate to collect tomorrow morning (Needed to have 4 10mm holes enlarged got an engineering firm to do it) and we can finally put it all together.

Been very happy with my nema to ballscrew alignement 3 of the 4 are perfect not tried the 4th one yet (Gantry motor) but I'm hoping we got 4 for 4.

The bolts in the Z axis top plate are 1mm too long at moment so need to cut them down as well.

I was worried about the Z plate most of all and it all seems good there's a couple of holes to counterbore in the Z axis but simple job.

I was going to chop my Hiwin's down for the Z axis but I'm going to leave them sticking over the top of the Z axis so if I do want to rebuild the Z I can get more travel, my travel is just over 8cm at moment.

When the top plate was being made an end mill broke hence the nasty bit on the top where the scratches are. The part is functionally perfect and the spindle mount is bolted onto this plate so it's also not visible so it would be pointless to remake and a waste of money.

The scratches I made when I was filing down round where the end mill had broke.

Big thanks to Chaz for making the plates and it was a pure pleasure to see Thor and an experience to feel her move lol, Thor truly is something else.

Do the AM882's work with 4 wire nema 23's?

Yes - even 8-wire motors have their windings either in series or parallel so they end up as 4-wire at the driver.

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Originally Posted by Neale

Yes - even 8-wire motors have their windings either in series or parallel so they end up as 4-wire at the driver.

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Wondering about the stall protection? Do you know how it works?

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Wondering about the stall protection? Do you know how it works?

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Black magic, pure and simple...

Given that there is some kind of microprocessor in the box, I suspect that it can monitor current draw, back EMF, and critical parameters like that. I know it works, but as for how, exactly...

I managed to blag my old man to pay for 2 of my AM882's in exchange for driving 8-10 hours to the docks on Sunday in a week or 2 to collect a truck driver. I can afford another 2 AM882's going to order them on Monday but should I get 3 AM882's and D542T instead? Will I notice the difference putting an AM882 on the Z?

I didn't mention to my old man at the time I will still need a power supply lol, bought a cheap ass breakout board.

My gut is telling me just buy 4 AM882's after all if I have one fail I can get a D524T in 48 hours for £30 and swap the AM882's round to suit.

Of course with AM882's my 2nm look underpowered but my ballscrews are only 1605 so I would need to upgrade to 2510's on the X&Y to be worth also upgrading to 3nm nema 23's or even nema 24's on the Y. Possible future projects ;)

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

I managed to blag my old man to pay for 2 of my AM882's in exchange for driving 8-10 hours to the docks on Sunday in a week or 2 to collect a truck driver. I can afford another 2 AM882's going to order them on Monday but should I get 3 AM882's and D542T instead? Will I notice the difference putting an AM882 on the Z?

I didn't mention to my old man at the time I will still need a power supply lol, bought a cheap ass breakout board.

My gut is telling me just buy 4 AM882's after all if I have one fail I can get a D524T in 48 hours for £30 and swap the AM882's round to suit.

Of course with AM882's my 2nm look underpowered but my ballscrews are only 1605 so I would need to upgrade to 2510's on the X&Y to be worth also upgrading to 3nm nema 23's or even nema 24's on the Y. Possible future projects ;)

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I dont know the tech details but buy once and buy right.

My own experience tells me this, otherwise it costs more time / money / problems in the long run.

Buy the AM882's you can then using them on another machine if you want to. 2510 screw will not be an upgrade on the machine you are building. Nema 23's 3.1Nm from cnc4you are the one's to buy.

I have to say in general I avoid buying cheap electronics... they are the biggest potential source of headaches and yet generally the easiest thing to transfer across to a new machine.

You definitely won't regret buying the AM882's, and if you decide to sell the machine after building a new one, you can buy those cheaper drivers to put in it then if you want to sell it as a working machine but bring your AM882's across to the new one.

Gantry fits ;) Not bolted in yet just sitting in the recess's.

Attachment 22699

Again Nema aligns to ballscrew that's 4 for 4 ;)
Attachment 22700

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Buy the AM882's you can then using them on another machine if you want to. 2510 screw will not be an upgrade on the machine you are building. Nema 23's 3.1Nm from cnc4you are the one's to buy.

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I've got 2nm nema 23's (2 recovered, 2 brand new) so I will use them for now but noted once I get everything else sorted I will have a look. As soon as I get it working properly I want to order another 1400mm 1605 ballscrew and swap the gantry round to the more traditional shortest span setup.

Nice! :-)
I see an extra bolt laying in the extrusion groove, what kind of sorcery is that?Lol !

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Originally Posted by Zeeflyboy

I have to say in general I avoid buying cheap electronics... they are the biggest potential source of headaches and yet generally the easiest thing to transfer across to a new machine.

You definitely won't regret buying the AM882's, and if you decide to sell the machine after building a new one, you can buy those cheaper drivers to put in it then if you want to sell it as a working machine but bring your AM882's across to the new one.

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From what I understood if I do sell it I will need to sell it with at least 2 AM882's for stall protection on my Y (Bottom dual ballscrew axis) unless I'm just a bastard lol.

Sage advice though spend more but once rather than 3 times and on the 3rd time buying the thing you should have bought the first time lol.

I've not only been there, done that but I bought 3 printers trying to print the T shirt lol.

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Originally Posted by Nickhofen

Nice! :-)
I see an extra bolt laying in the extrusion groove, what kind of sorcery is that?

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I never even noticed that lol would explain the rattling noise the extrusion was making when I trying to get it into the gantry mounts which was not easy.

I had the plates recessed 5mm either side so the extrusion sits tight inside the aluminium plate, I had it made to a tight fit. Trying to get it on was not easy lol but once it slipped into the recess it was super tight and very nice! Top work Chaz making the plates and top work KJN aluminium for cutting the aluminium so accurately.

You can see the recess better on the picture Chaz took ;) The Hiwin's were meant to recess into the plate as well but I got the measurements slightly off and they didn't so rather than try and ground the plate out I chopped 1.5cm off the Hiwin's and then they don't need to be recessed.
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And Nice one Zeeflyboy on the plate advice I used 20mm tooling plate for the gantry mounts, 15mm tooling plate for the back of the Z axis and 20mm tooling plate for the front of the Z axis. The rest was made from recovered aluminium (Nema mounts, BK12/BF12 mounts & spacers). I cannot believe I was going to go with 3mm steel for the gantry mounts that would have been pointless exercise in futility.