Help please. Dip switches and mach 3 settings

Hi.
Here.s another photo with the Mobo. Maybe it clarifies some things.
Attachment 24728
So I did remove the hard drive and it alllowed me to enter the Bios, so I deleted everything from the hard drive and started a new installation of windows xp sp3 x86.
It failed the first time, but went ok. ish the second time. After installing everything, I just got a black screen with Error loading operating system.
So I.ve burned anothed dvd with Recovery Essentials Windows XP and ran that, and applied an automated fix and I could start the PC.
I.ve got this two errors in the process and I have no ideea what they mean.
Attachment 24729
Attachment 24730
Regarding the IDe settings, here.s a photo with the Bios
Attachment 24731
I.m searching now for some drivers, as in XP device manager, under Other Devices, I don.t have any driver.
I.ve found a cd with xp drivers for win xp, but there are so many, so I need to figure out which ones are the right one. For example, in LAN drivers I.ve got Atheros, Broadcom, Intel, JMicron, Marvell, Realtek, VIA.
I did this things many years ago, so I guess they.ll come back to me.

At least, now I have available the Standard PC option in device manager, so I can change the energy management of this unit. We.ll see if it works when I.ll get there.

looking at your photo

Attachment 24732

you can see two RealTek IC's

I expect the larger one near to the heatsink will contain the LAN

the small one in the top left corner is the onboard sound chip

on the mother board
hidden under the heatsinks are the

Intel 945GC Northbridge
and Intel ICH7 Southbridge

John

https://www.asus.com/uk/supportonly/...Desk_Download/

Try here

The LAN chip is above the battery and PCI ex1 socket. If you can read the make (I suspect it is Atheros) that will help you determine the LAN driver. Once you have the LAN drivers installed you can get onto t'Interweb and get other drivers installed.

In Device Manager/Hardware I usually check for yellow exclamation marks or question marks, but once I get to a state where everything seems to work, I lose interest in sorting out problems which do not affect me.

LAN chip is Atheros Attansic L2 0725 B71654B - I might be wrong with some numbers as it.s very small written
Attachment 24733
Changing from ACPI to Standard Pc brings up this Found New Hardware message. Also windows fails to load first time, so it show Start Windows Normally and doing this, works just fine.
Attachment 24734
Also in device manager things change.
Attachment 24735
Changing back to ACPI makes the thing go away. The massage and failure to load windows.

This drivers from the link provided confuse me a lot, as downloading the LAN driver for example I get inside the folder many other things, PXE, RPL, RTEGROM.206 and many others inside these as well.
In the ones I have, in the Atheros folder, I have Atheros (AR8121, 8113, 8114... and Atheros (L1 Gigabit Ethernet 10 100 1000...
I.m thinking of installing all of them until one works. It did not seem to be a problem in my distant past.

Anyway, for people who do this regularly might be easy and fast, but for me it.s not. It took me more than half a day so far. Tedious thing...awwff. Long live Windows 10!

Hi again.
In the end I tried all drivers and nothing worked, and mainly because the device manager does not detect any network adapter under windows xp installation. checked the bios and it is enabled in there.
Anyway, as the Lan driver can wait, I.ve installed mach3, did the setup, and tested the cnc. Same problem. Jerky steppers. Changed the kernel speed to 35000 and no difference.
Ran the Drivertest in mach 3 folder and it.s pulsing to slow, and that time line is all over the place.
Changed the computer driver in device manager from ACPI to Standard Pc and now the pc would keep restarting after the bios option. I could reintall everything and probably would work just fine for normal use, but not for cnc. At least I.ve tested the windows xp, and no difference compared to win7, in my case.

I.ve spoke with a friend that has a computer shop and he could find the suppliers for various old motherboards. This one that dazp1976 mentioned, GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L, 775, DDR2, PCI Express , goes here for apx 25-30Euro, and then an Intel celeron procesor, single or dual core, 2-3 euro a piece, might need the fan and everything but my friend will get and assamble all that. Also have the option of buying online from other people some old pcs, but the options are limited.

My question is what desktop pcs do you use guys? Rob, Clive, John?

Personally I don't think this is pc related.

Can we have a refresh where you are at. ie a new vid showing the problem?

What PS are you using for the drives? Voltage?

What setting have you set the drives to ?

what setting do you now have in Mach?

My CNC computer is a Pentium4 based processor 2.4GHz with 1 Gb RAM It is configured ACPI. I run XP and have taken out all unnecessary Windows options like Games etc.

Looking at your screen shots, you would be best to sort out the yellow exclamation on the ECP driver. I tend to agree with Clive, the major problem lies elsewhere.

All of the Yellow Question Marks can wait, unless you need networking for something else. I have removed the Internet gateway so that I can network my CNC machine for access to files in my NAS box, but remain disconnected from hackers and malware.

Dear Clive.
There isn.t any new problem other than in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlVfyy1hFU. This is the problem I have for over a month ago. I could not fix this.
I.ve changed the enclosure and rewired everything and in the end I.ve got the same problem. Stalling, jerking, strange noise etc.
I use the power supplies included in the kit, for 1200oz nema 34 steppers, in this case S-350-60, 60V, 5.85A, DC Output.
The driver settings are as stated in the first post, ..Dip switches set as OFF OFF ON ON OFF ON ON OFF , which sets the thing to 4.9A Peak, 3.5A RMS, Full Current from SW4 (i don,t really know how to set this), and 2000 pulse/rev. The next current setting is 5.7A peak... And I changed this to 800 rev/min and 1600 rev/min in order to see how it goes.
Settings in Mach3, there are plenty. Could you please be more specific.

Dear Rob,
The yellow exclamation did not exist with the previous installation of windows7. These are all new things the win xp experience.

I.m quite aware by now that you are qualified and smart guys, and know your craft, and I don.t mean any disrespect, but this ..Pulsing to slow.. does not raise any concern to anyone?

In the video, it looks and sounds like the stepper is stalling,In the Motor Tuning, try dropping the velocity and acceleration to 50% of what you have got it set at. If this solves the problem put it up to 75% of the original value. Then go up until it stalls and back off to where it doesn't stall.

If that doesn't help you then we have to think deeper.

Sw4 puts it to half current when idle and is normally set on.

I agree with Rob on this. I think you are using Nema34 motors so your voltage will not be high enough to drive them fast.

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The driver settings are as stated in the first post, ..Dip switches set as OFF OFF ON ON OFF ON ON OFF

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It would be helpful to say what drives they are without having to troll back through all the posts.

What micro setting do you have now?

I.ve tried lots of settings in motor tunning, and it worked fine at any speed, and then it did not, again at any speed. When this stalling happens, it does not matter the speed. The z axis for example was set at 100 mm/sec, which is dead slow, and it did the same problems. I.ve tried all speeds up till 3000 mm/sec, even a bit more for x axis, and it had times when it worked smooth, and then the steppers changed their noise, and either behaved like after minute 1.05 in video, when they just stop, or kept running in a jerky manner and made the ballscrew vibrate.
SW4 is off at the moment.

Attachment 24741
Attachment 24742

The supply has like a potentiometer, on the left side of the the DC output terminals, which says +V ADJ. I did not touch that, but reading with a multimeter, I get exacly 60V.
The drivers are DQ860MA, 24-80V, set at the 4.9A Peak, 3.5A RMS option at the moment. The steppers have written on them 5.6A(U). The next driver setting is at 5.7A Peak. They go up to 7.8A Peak.
Attachment 24743
As for steps, I.ve tried 800.1600 and 2000 rev/min. It either function ok with any setting or it does not work, no matter the steps.

The cnc worked smooth on and off, and a driver or source problem would be persistent and require fixing right away. It would not allow the cnc to work sometimes. That.s just my thought.

Could you please tell me why you find ..pulsing to slow.. thing to be irrelevant? What is it, or what is the cause of it?

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The z axis for example was set at 100 mm/sec,

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That is 6 mtr/ min. I doubt your machine with go that fast. Are you using belts between the motor and screw or direct drive?

Turn SW 4 on. It will not affect anything when the motor are moving. when the motors stop it just reduces the current to half.

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As for steps, I.ve tried 800.1600 and 2000 rev/min. It either function ok with any setting or it does not work, no matter the steps.

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Only play with 800 Sw 5-6-7-8 = off-on-on-on - it is not rev/min.- it is pulse/rev

What exactly do you have your motor tuning in Mach3 for each axis.

Hi. Sorry, my mistake. I meant 100 mm per minute, not seconds. And up to 3000 mm/min which I think it is 100+ ipm. It works ok with this speed. Anything higher shakes the gantry when it stops.
Only the z axis has a belt 2:1 ratio system, X and Y are direct drive.
I still have the 800 pulse/rev setting. I.ve only tried 1600 and 2000, and they worked fine, when they worked.
In motor turning I had (as the pc does not work anymore), the STEPS PER set by the the test done in Settings Alt6 tab.
ˇˇIn settings tab, I typed I want to move it 50, and it did move 150, and mach 3 set it to 160 steps for X and Y axis. The driver setting is at 800ˇˇ
VELOCITY 3000 and ACCELERATION 200.

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

VELOCITY 3000

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That velocity seems way too high for Nema34's at 60v. Don't expect speed from those motors. Try V600 A100.

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And up to 3000 mm/min which I think it is 100+ ipm. It works ok with this speed. Anything higher shakes the gantry when it stops.

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If you need faster than this you might want to think about putting belts on the x and y and gearing them up.

It would improve the speed if you could up the voltage to the drives. Nema 23's might have been a better choice!!

If you change the micro steps then you have to change the "steps per" to get the same distance travelled.

It may very well be too high, but it works. This 2500-3000 velocity can be seen in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiXksh0ZlZ4. Here it works just fine.
When the things go bad, like in this video after minute 1.05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlVfyy1hFU&t=1s, it is irrelevant what velocity is set. I.ve tried from V100 to 3000 and it just as bad.
It.s irrelevant what driver setting I have, 800, 1600 or 2000. Or if the workshop lights are flashing. It does not matter. When it goes smooth it does it with any settings and speeds, and when is not, it is not, with any settings and speeds.

The pc is out. Keeps restarting so I can.t try any new things just yet. I.ll sort it out somehow in the next days.

The first rule of ˇˇpulsing to slowˇˇ is never talk about ˇˇpulsing to slowˇˇ. :)) :P

I would not have any doubts about this problems you.ve menitioned if there would be a constant. Like, ok 60V is not enough. It should not work. But it varies. Sometimes works just fine.
Changing the microsteps was just an experiment to see if the steppers would sound different. I did adjust the STEPS PER each time I.ve played with the microsteps.

You are right about Nema23, but who knew. I bought this kit more than 3 years ago. And the rails a couple of years ago, and finaly the steel a few months ago. I did some research back then, and I think I did like any guy who did not have experience with cncs. Bigger is better. And it was a whole kit for sale.

I have the hardware available to go with dual ballscrew for the y axis, and then I.ll build some belt system to drive these with one stepper, and here include some gearing to make it faster, and I would do it, if this design did fail. I don.t have any problem with improving or modifing the project, IF there is a clear, specific and permanent error.
All this voltage, microsteps, heavy gantry, direct coupling, mach3 settings would create permanent errors.. It will just not work, or work bad constantly. Is this not true? There is a variable which gives me a hard time. What is it? Who knows.

I think it is about time we had a proper review of the situation.

When you have your PC up and running with Mach3 loaded and you can get each axis moving, then we should tackle problems one by one.

Starting from basics :-
Leadscrew pitch
Belt ratio if not direct coupling
Microstep settings
Steps per
Velocity
Acceleration
Driver current

If anyone thinks something else is needed please add to the list and I will revise this post.

BTW Andrei 5.7A is less than 2% above 5.6A and the stepper should handle this.

Ok. I.ll get back when it.s ready for review.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Ok. I.ll get back when it.s ready for review.
Thank you.

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OK remember that nema 34 do not spin as fast a nema 23-24

Your win 7 pc should be fine (as long as it is 32 bit). Also If I remember keep the kernel in Mach3 to 25k/cs I have a feeling you tried it at 35k

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I would not have any doubts about this problems you.ve menitioned if there would be a constant. Like, ok 60V is not enough. It should not work. But it varies. Sometimes works just fine.

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This will work but not as fast. Ie the motor won't spin faster unless you up the volts to the drive

Got my £32 bargain Dell 780 the other day. Installed windows xp but weirdly it will connect via wlan to my other pc's but won't connect to internet? Probably a blessing in disguise tbf (no chance of viruses). Might try Windows7 at some point.

Looks like I'll be waiting until October for an AMAT25LV from Amadeal which is frustrating.
Gives me time to get Mach3 installed, the electronics box wired up & all tested before hand I guess.
In terms of steppers I might need something bigger than the Nema23 425oz/in I have for the x,y.
Using 5mm pitch ball screws I'm planning on setting it up with:
The drivers set at 1000 per revolution
The steps per unit set at 200
So If I'm right 5mm/1000 gives me 0.005mm resolution and 200 steps is 1mm (1 unit).
Should give me a reasonable rapid velocity.

I'm running my dying Sieg X2 on 2000/400 on 5mm pitch atm which Mach3 shows I could have a maximum velocity of around 2800mm/min ish.
I have to have the Gib so tight on that tiny table though, the motors start missing steps at 1400mm/min. Those settings give me 0.0025mm per step.

If I can get closer to 2000mm/min using the 1000/200 settings on the AMAT25 with a 0.005mm accuracy I'll be plenty happy enough :)

Hi dazp1976,
If I got it right, you.re talking about milling steel and/or aluminium. I.ll use it mainly for wood, and sometimes for plastics. I guess each material and machine has it.s own limitations. I.ll keep in mind your specifications for when I get there. At the moment, I.m searching for a new motherboard or pc.
About the Old Gigabyte socket 775 Matx board you.re mentioned some time ago, I can get a separate motherboard and the add to it all else, or get a whole second hand pc. I.ve just found this one for 15 Euro,
https://www.olx.ro/oferta/desktop-pc...tml#e11bdcef1f.
Is this the kind you were talking about?

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Hi dazp1976,
If I got it right, you.re talking about milling steel and/or aluminium. I.ll use it mainly for wood, and sometimes for plastics. I guess each material and machine has it.s own limitations. I.ll keep in mind your specifications for when I get there. At the moment, I.m searching for a new motherboard or pc.
About the Old Gigabyte socket 775 Matx board you.re mentioned some time ago, I can get a separate motherboard and the add to it all else, or get a whole second hand pc. I.ve just found this one for 15 Euro,
https://www.olx.ro/oferta/desktop-pc...tml#e11bdcef1f.
Is this the kind you were talking about?

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Yes for milling aluminum.
The PC running my X2 conversion is similar. It was a custom build about 10 years ago that eventually sat in the loft for years. It has this board in with a Celeron 331 (2.66ghz)
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...M-S2-rev-10#ov
I put 2GB ram in as I'm using on-board video.
350w psu, dvd, floppy.
Has a faster SATA drive in there but I assume an IDE one will be just as good, just take slightly longer to start up.
Setup is flawless on the 3 axis X2 mill.

Only trouble with sata drive is xp needs an initial driver on a floppy for it when installing fresh. Some boards these days don't have a header.

Have 4GB ram in the new/old Dell and putting a video card in there in case I go 5 axis on the next machine. It's overkill but at least it shouldn't have any issues.

Also on another note. Because I neglected to use screened cables on the X2 I decided not to fit limit switches. Soft limits in Mach3 have worked perfect for it so far. As long as they're set up correctly in relation to the home position and remember to home at the end and beginning of the day it seems to work spot on.

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Originally Posted by dazp1976

Only trouble with sata drive is xp needs an initial driver on a floppy for it when installing fresh. Some boards these days don't have a header.

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If this really is problem you need to solve to get it to work, you can get a program called "nlite Os" to slipstream the driver into a xp install cd.

It is free and i have used it a lot to make bootable automated install cds for xp.
It also lets you slipstream all known patches and servicepacks and turn on or of unwanted features.


Grtz Bert.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

Hi again.
So I just managed to fit the new pc, and I have no idea why, but it works perfect. No stalling or jerking at all. It.s a single core celeron, 512mb of ram :)).
I have to complete a woodworking order these days, and then, I.ll have time again to continue the cnc.

Just to have something to think about meanwhile, what comes next?

Point 1: I.ll mention again the vfd problem, as I guess I have to figure this out to.
I wired up the vfd, I change Parameter 1 and 2 to value of ..2..(for communication port control), then wired the 4 control wires like posted before ..the gnd pin goes to ACM, the 0-10v to V1, 1st relay pin (5th in order) to DCM, and 2nd relay pin to FOR., and then in mach 3, in motor outputs, I enabled the spindle, step pin 1, dir pin 0, dir lowactive and step I tried in all ways, step port and dir port both to 1, then in output signals I enabled output 1, port 1, pin 17, active low not checked, then spindle setup, relay control with disable spindle relay not checked, motor control with ..use spindle motor output.. and ..pwm control.. both checked and pwm base freq to 100, then in spindle pulleys, nr1 max speed 24000.
And it does not work. It does nothing when i press spindle cw f5, although the relay clicks on, and the voltage at terminal 0-10v is 9.54v The vfd just shows 0000000 on the screen.
What have I done wrong?

Point 2: I.ve made a 130cm/130cm solid wood table top to put on top of the metal structure. I was thinking to mill this flat, and add over an particle board or some sacrificial board. I don.t know how to mill it, but that.s the plan.

Point 3: It has been mentioned in this thread to add the vfd somewhere outside the control box. Sometime in the near future, I.ll get a dust exctractor thing, but right now, it.s a mess in there, and lots of fine wood dust all over. Have anyone used a vfd in this kind of conditions? Is it a high change of breaking it?

Point 4: The ballscrews and linear rails seem to cope ok with the fine dust. I.ve read some time ago that this systems need some extra lubrication even if they have some of their own when they get out of chinese factories. Any suggestion? Please don.t say grease.

Or the initial question: Now that it works, what comes next?

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

Point 1: I.ll mention again the vfd problem, as I guess I have to figure this out to.
I wired up the vfd, I change Parameter 1 and 2 to value of ..2..(for communication port control), then wired the 4 control wires like posted before ..the gnd pin goes to ACM, the 0-10v to V1, 1st relay pin (5th in order) to DCM, and 2nd relay pin to FOR., and then in mach 3, in motor outputs, I enabled the spindle, step pin 1, dir pin 0, dir lowactive and step I tried in all ways, step port and dir port both to 1, then in output signals I enabled output 1, port 1, pin 17, active low not checked, then spindle setup, relay control with disable spindle relay not checked, motor control with ..use spindle motor output.. and ..pwm control.. both checked and pwm base freq to 100, then in spindle pulleys, nr1 max speed 24000.
And it does not work. It does nothing when i press spindle cw f5, although the relay clicks on, and the voltage at terminal 0-10v is 9.54v The vfd just shows 0000000 on the screen.
What have I done wrong?

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I am assuming you have a Huanyang VFD as I cannot find reference to it in previous posts and the one on your wall looks like one.

PD001 and PD002 should both be set to 1 (External terminal = 0 - 10 v external)

Cheers,

Rob

Hi Rob,
I set it to 1 and I can start the spindle. So thank you. What is not working is the speed adjustment. If I reduce 1 or 100 percent the SRO 100 on the lower right corner of mach3 Program Run tab, it reduces the speed to apx 11000 rpm. In Ports and Pin, spindle setup tab, I.ve got PWN BASE FREQ set to 100 and MINIMUM PMV to 75. I guess this is the equivalent of 18000 rpm, as I read online, I should not go lower than that as it gets the spindle hot. In Config, Spindle pulley tab, I.ve set pulley nr 1, minumum 18000 maximum 24000, ratio 1. So again, what did I mess up?

I have to admit that my Huanyang FVD is still in the box, but here is a vid I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sf2zLQu5CU, but you can save yourself the irritation of listening to the chirpy little sod as the summary is PD005,PD004,PD003,PD072 all -> 400, PD144 -> 3000. As you have an air cooled spindle, you need to spin it to cool it, so don't go too slow.

It might be useful to search through this forum, as I am sure this has been discussed before.

Ok. Thank you.
P.s. What does ˇˇchirpy little sodˇˇ means?

Chirpy means 'too happy'
Little means 'small' or, in this case 'young'
Sod is a general term of annoyance

Got it. Thanks you.

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Sod is a general term of annoyance

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1
(British English, taboo, slang) used to refer to a person, especially a man, that you are annoyed with or think is unpleasant You stupid sod! (British English, taboo, slang) used with an adjective to refer to a person, especially a man The poor old sod got the sack yesterday. You lucky sod!
2.
the surface of the ground, with the grass growing on it; turf.

only joking:yahoo:

Sod it Clive!

:))

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

:))

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Does that mean you are happy or does it mean you have a double chin ?

It means from what I.ve got, if I managed to understand it right, that Clive was a bit of a sod, by pointing out in detail the meaning of the lexicon used. No double chin here, just amused. :)
Still, I can.t help but asking, in usual dialogue, is this term used in a derogatory manner, or not? I mean like, for example in spanish, and perhaps in english as well, hijo de puta/son of a bitch, can be used as an offense, or as a casual expression, sometimes used by men to express respect to the achievements of other men, without sounding creepy. I can.t explain it better, but I.m sure you get the point. The tone of voice gives the meaning, not the words.

sod it, its late good nite:sorrow:

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

It means from what I.ve got, if I managed to understand it right, that Clive was a bit of a sod, by pointing out in detail the meaning of the lexicon used. No double chin here, just amused. :)
Still, I can.t help but asking, in usual dialogue, is this term used in a derogatory manner, or not? I mean like, for example in spanish, and perhaps in english as well, hijo de puta/son of a bitch, can be used as an offense, or as a casual expression, sometimes used by men to express respect to the achievements of other men, without sounding creepy. I can.t explain it better, but I.m sure you get the point. The tone of voice gives the meaning, not the words.

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In fact, I was just obliquely pointing out that 'sod' can also be used as a verb e.g. 'sod off' means 'go away'. In English ' sod' is a fairly mild expression.
'Sod it' means that you are no longer interested in 'it' and also slightly annoyed with 'it'.

Well.it.s quite appropriate for a non native english speaker to ˇˇsod offˇˇ at this point. Not meaning that I.m not interested or annoyed, but only that it.s too much english in here. :P

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Originally Posted by Radu_Andrei

It means from what I.ve got, if I managed to understand it right, that Clive was a bit of a sod, by pointing out in detail the meaning of the lexicon used. No double chin here, just amused. :)
Still, I can.t help but asking, in usual dialogue, is this term used in a derogatory manner, or not? I mean like, for example in spanish, and perhaps in english as well, hijo de puta/son of a bitch, can be used as an offense, or as a casual expression, sometimes used by men to express respect to the achievements of other men, without sounding creepy. I can.t explain it better, but I.m sure you get the point. The tone of voice gives the meaning, not the words.

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You're quite correct Radu_Andrei, these expressions are often used as a bit of fun and in jest, or the opposite meaning of what the dictionary says they mean.

People down here in Austraya speak a language that is vaguely similar to English, so something like "you bastard!" is NOT actually derogatory, because we often insult people as a term of endearment.