Comments sought on new build: A CNC Router for RC Gliders and Planes

I've not had time to do anything more yet unfortunately. Handed my notice in today so got 4 weeks to get it finished ready to get it home to carry on with it in the shed. Will be trying to do some more in lunch tomorrow, got the adjustable feet plates to weld onto the frame then it will be doing the epoxy.

Having some gear at home is essential, if it wasn't for a bandsaw that can cut wood and metal and a pneumatic overhead pin router that can cut wood and aluminium I would be knackered to do it myself.
Handing your notice in is both a wonderful and scary thing all at the same time, I've tried it several times myself.

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Will be trying to do some more in lunch tomorrow, got the adjustable feet plates to weld onto the frame then it will be doing the epoxy.

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It might be better to do the epoxy when you are back at home and the frame is in its final position. Just a thought ..Clive

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Originally Posted by Clive S

It might be better to do the epoxy when you are back at home and the frame is in its final position. Just a thought ..Clive

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Hi Clive, there's no room in the shed at the moment (still boxes of stuff waiting to be unpacked from when I moved 10 months ago) so I can't really bring it back home and do the epoxy there. It needs a good clear out and shelves made to put things on but as my wedding is less than 4 weeks away now there's too much to do in the evenings and weekends with final preparations etc. Also the shed is too cold at the moment so doing the epoxy in a warm works is far more preferable I think. Eventually it will be mounted vertically but I still have to weld the supporting frame for that...

Well got out in the works for 1/2 hour just now...miracles do happen!!

Managed to drill some holes on some 40 x 40mm flat and weld on some M12 nuts to the back. These are for adjusting the frame flat whilst the epoxy is setting, they won't be used for feet as it's going to be vertically mounted......eventually.

Managed to weld in one of the feet and tidy up a bit with the angle grinder. Also put the top part of the gantry on and stitch welded it to the bottom half making the L shape. Camera died before I could get a picture of it though...

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All feet are prepped up and the second one is tacked in to the frame. I'm in the workshop for 3 hours tomorrow morning so hope to get lots done as there will be no: setting up...do 10 mins welding...then put it all away again...I hope!

Don't do a 'rush and regret' job on it, which I sometimes succumb to myself :thumbdown:

Won't be rushing, not huge amounts to do. Want to get the epoxy on tomorrow...

This mornings progress...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/ejepy7a8.jpg
Ground all the welds flat that needed it. Tacked on a piece of 50x50 angle as the bridge between the rails.

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Realised I'd left the stop plate unwelded on the top so put a run if weld down and ground it back. Now the epoxy won't leak there.

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Frame being forklifted round to the test bay, no point carrying it when there's the equipment to do it for you!

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Frame tucked away and feet adjusted so it sits level.

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Sat out the way in a corner...

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What's missing from here? Yep my digital scales so no epoxy mixed and poured today :(

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All moats in place. Used masking tape to seal the gaps.

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Put the gantry on the frame and shimmed it level and 90 degrees to the x axis mounts.

All ready for the pour which will be first thing Monday morning before work. Not a bad 3 hours work this morning really.

Great job !, and a good wide epoxyduct between the rails, wasteful but necessary to get good flow and hence level all round. Pity about the scales, or lack of should I say.
Did the draught excluder go on okay ? give it a good pressing down all round just prior to pouring.

Cheers, yes the draught excluder went on fine. I did give the rails a good clean with thinners first and they stuck to the rail like s*^t to a blanket...so to speak!

Well I spoke a little too soon. I did press them all down firmly before pouring and still had a couple of leaks. As soon as the epoxy finds a leak path it lifts the draft excluder. Spent 1/2hr chasing 2 leaks...managed to stop them with some blue paper towel and masking tape. After 1/2hr the epoxy is slightly more viscous and stops running (famous last words) as much. Going to check in another 1/2hr to make sure no more is leaking out.

I used 1kg (mixed) for the rails and the gantry. I'd guess the rails are 4-5mm thick and the gantry 2-3mm. The large container (like an ice cream container) I used was ideal as the epoxy didn't get warm at all after mixing. I was quite vigorous in mixing and there were quite a few bubbles but the 7mm hole I drilled in the side of the container coupled with pouring it from about 12" high eliminated nearly all the bubbles. So if you're pouring it do it from a height so it pours in a really thin stream and it gets all the air out. Pics below.

Attachment 11810Attachment 11808Attachment 11809Attachment 11807

Pity about the leaks, someone posted a video of using epoxy and the idea was to pour a thin layer first, this would both find and plug leaks for the final layer.
The 7mm hole works great, anyway it looks like a great job, nice and flat and clear. Remember to give it plenty of time before bolting the rails on, you don't want it compressing slighty like mine did after 3 days.
It's a great feeling when you've passed this stage of the construction, it's like getting past the foundations when building a house and the epoxy is the damp course.

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Pity about the leaks, someone posted a video of using epoxy and the idea was to pour a thin layer first, this would both find and plug leaks for the final layer.
The 7mm hole works great, anyway it looks like a great job, nice and flat and clear. Remember to give it plenty of time before bolting the rails on, you don't want it compressing slighty like mine did after 3 days.
It's a great feeling when you've passed this stage of the construction, it's like getting past the foundations when building a house and the epoxy is the damp course.

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Given more time I'd have done it in a couple of pours and spent more time sealing and doing the moat. I'll be leaving it all week to cure (if I can curb my impatience) before doing anything more to it. I've got to cut all the linear rails to length as the X axis are 100mm too long (now wishing I'd extended the rails 100mm further forward but next time...) and the Y & Z are in one length at the moment so that will keep me busy for the next few lunchtimes.

I'm feeling like real progress has been made now the epoxy has been poured. Should be able to get it home and start working on it in the shed after the Honeymoon. I discovered that I can run my pillar drill from my inverter and shed's solar power so I'm happy with that, free (apart from the set up cost) electrickery!!

I knew someone who used to have batteries and DC lighting in his shed, but he just kept taking the batteries to work to recharge them. :glee:

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

I knew someone who used to have batteries and DC lighting in his shed, but he just kept taking the batteries to work to recharge them. :glee:

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That's cheating but I like his style! Just checked the epoxy and it's stopped leaking as it's now got too viscous to freely flow/run/dribble. It's a nice 24°C in the test bay so should go off nicely...

Nice work Neil. Would have commented sooner but for some reason I've not been getting notifications of new posts.

Glad to hear the leaks have stopped.

Just realised (when checking how it was curing in my lunch break) that I have made a total and utter f**k up on the epoxy....:hopelessness: I've only used half the hardner that I needed to. Now considering it's pretty simple maths to halve 800g of resin to get 400g of hardner my brain decided to stop pouring the hardner at 1000g.....WTF, did I decide that I liked the look of 1000g better than 1200g, was it too early in the morning for my brain to be working (was 7am when pouring so was up and out the house for 5.30am) or was it simply that I'm fecking stupid......!!!! I know what my money's on...

So looks like I'll have to try and scrape the epoxy off and start again as it's never going to fully cure. Out of desperation I'm putting it in the drying oven of our local contract painters over night (40°C - 50°C) to see what effect that has on it, however I'm not hopeful as it's been in a building that's about 24°C for the past 2 days and has only got to the stage where you can put a nail mark in it and it'll dissapear in 10 minutes. ARGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH......... ....:dejection:

the epoxy will never cure unfortunately it is the wrong type of chemical reaction you are best to strip it all off now clean up the mess and start a fresh. I made a similar mistake on my first surfboard i made! you will only do it once. I make sure i always zero the scales before adding the hardener as it saves simple mistakes. The other time this can happen is if you do not mix the two parts well enuff but sounds like you know were the problem came from.

We need a Homer Simpson "Doh!" emoticon for just this situation.

That's a real shame as it seemed to be going so well. It's going to be an pretty awful clean up job as well I'd reckon. I hope the drying oven works but I can't believe it will, your epoxy wouldn't achieve anywhere near it's maximum hardness anyway.

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Originally Posted by charlieuk

the epoxy will never cure unfortunately it is the wrong type of chemical reaction you are best to strip it all off now clean up the mess and start a fresh. I made a similar mistake on my first surfboard i made! you will only do it once. I make sure i always zero the scales before adding the hardener as it saves simple mistakes. The other time this can happen is if you do not mix the two parts well enuff but sounds like you know were the problem came from.

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To be honest I'm just hoping the oven makes it a bit harder so I can get it off easier...yes I'll only make this mistake once. Not an expensive one but just made lots of hard work for a stupid mistake. I mixed it really thoroughly in one container and then poured it into the ice cream tub and mixed it again well so I know it's not that.

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Originally Posted by Wobblycogs

We need a Homer Simpson "Doh!" emoticon for just this situation.

That's a real shame as it seemed to be going so well. It's going to be an pretty awful clean up job as well I'd reckon. I hope the drying oven works but I can't believe it will, your epoxy wouldn't achieve anywhere near it's maximum hardness anyway.

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Yeah it's going to be a mess to clear up...oh well s**t happens. I'll leave the cleaning up until after the honeymoon, hopefully 10 days all inclusive in a Deluxe Penthouse apartment in Mauritius will chill me out...

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I fancy giving this epoxy leveling technique a try. Can anyone recommend a good source and type of epoxy for the job.

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Originally Posted by gavztheouch

I fancy giving this epoxy leveling technique a try. Can anyone recommend a good source and type of epoxy for the job.

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There are various ones:

West system 105 with the 209 slow hardner
Easy Composites
Reactive Resins Syntac EPAFD Slow Cure Epoxy Resin Pack
Infusion resin's

To name but 4. Most on here use Wests, Eddycurrent and I (although I've not mixed it correctly) have used Reactive resin and Jazz uses Infusions resins....take your pick!

Neil Sorry about the cock up, it happens, its called a learning curve. I was going to comment on the mixing in your picture but now you are doing it again I will. You appear to have mixed it with a round rod I don't think that is good I think you need to do it with a flat piece of thin plywood or plastic as it will mix better. It says that on the WestSystem info about the correct way to mix and not to have the temp to high 20C is about right. Hope you don't mind me pointing this out. ..Clive

I came to this thread for sanctuary but it looks like you're having as many problems as I am, sorry to hear about the epoxy.

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Originally Posted by njhussey

Yeah it's going to be a mess to clear up...oh well s**t happens. I'll leave the cleaning up until after the honeymoon, hopefully 10 days all inclusive in a Deluxe Penthouse apartment in Mauritius will chill me out...

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Bollocks to that, you want a B&B in Whitby then spend what you was going to on that 5* place on a really nice CNC machine.!!. . . .You'd proabaly have change for an extension to the shed has well. . .:hysterical:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Neil Sorry about the cock up, it happens, its called a learning curve. I was going to comment on the mixing in your picture but now you are doing it again I will. You appear to have mixed it with a round rod I don't think that is good I think you need to do it with a flat piece of thin plywood or plastic as it will mix better. It says that on the WestSystem info about the correct way to mix and not to have the temp to high 20C is about right. Hope you don't mind me pointing this out. ..Clive

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Cheers Clive, yep learning curve all right. Just peed off with myself for making such a stupid error. I did mix the epoxy for at least 5 minutes very vigerously in the first container and once poured into the tub again for at least another 5 minutes before pouring it. I will use a flat piece of wood next time. That picture I took was after pouring it (from approx 2' above the tub) into the tub from the forst pot where most of the bubbles had been knocked out.

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

I came to this thread for sanctuary but it looks like you're having as many problems as I am, sorry to hear about the epoxy.

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Cheers, I'll scrape it off and get some more epoxy and do it correctly this time! They're not problems, just small hurdles to get over...all part of the challenge!

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Bollocks to that, you want a B&B in Whitby then spend what you was going to on that 5* place on a really nice CNC machine.!!. . . .You'd proabaly have change for an extension to the shed has well. . .:hysterical:

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You saying my CNC machine isn't going to be really nice eh...eh?? :hysterical: Yeah for the price of the Honeymoon I could have just bought a really nice CNC machine, but where's the fun in that? Much rather make it myself...

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Bollocks to that, you want a B&B in Whitby then spend what you was going to on that 5* place on a really nice CNC machine.!!. . . .You'd proabaly have change for an extension to the shed has well. . .:hysterical:

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Only slightly cheaper than our honeymoon: a long weekend in Lincon. I don't remember getting to spend any more on the CNC though.

If Lincon is Lincoln its lovely, as are the natives. G.

Had a quick look at the epoxy this morning, had a quick test peel and it should come off OK...still going to be messy mind....

Well still not done anything on the frame yet (still doing jobs that were urgent before the wedding) but I've just ordered a new lathe...

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and milling machine...

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for my new work so I'll be able to do some milling and turning soon (end of May/beginning of June) :thumsup:

Neil,
Will you making a 'product' or will you be taking on any jobs as they come ?

These are just for work for turning down the occasional hub/coupling or making the odd bespoke item or bits for test rigs etc. we outsource all of our machining to local companies. Most of the time these machines will be sat about doing nothing (read making parts for my cnc router!!) and I've been given the go ahead to cnc the milling m/c already...

Neil
I purchased the WM18 mill and cnc'd it but I find there is a bit of backlash in the screws so I have decided to strip it down and fit ball screws when I get the time. I am happy with the mill in general though.:thumsup: ..Clive

Clive, thats good to know that you're happy with yours. As I'm not paying for it I'll be fitting ballscrews from the off. Still deciding what steppers to go for but erring on NEMA 34's and 240V drivers...how easy was the Z to do?

Moved the frame to my works workshop (or at least the area that's going to be the workshop once it's been tidied and sorted out) so I can start stripping off the epoxy I ballsed up...went and checked the epoxy this morning and it was hard??? WTF? Still going to strip it off and start again as I wouldn't trust it!!

The new milling machine and lathe are being delivered this week so once installed, stripped down, oiled/greased, adjusted and trued I'll be starting to make some brackets and other bits for my machine. Ordered another load of tools for the machines (boring heads/bars/indexable tools, angle plates/DTI's and base etc.) so will have every tool except the one I probably want!

I've found an old cast iron 24" square marking out table which will come in useful although it'll need the rust cleaning off part of it...and a 24" Mitutoyo vernier caliper, there's also a Mitutoyo vernier height gauge but the scale is really rusty so you can't see the graduations. Anyone got a good way of cleaning these items so they can be used again? I don't want to take a scotch pad or anything like that to them for fear of taking off the graduations or ruining the surface (although there might be some pitting on the surface plate) if I can help it?

Looking forward to re-starting work on the router as I've uses for it at work cutting out delrin/acetal rings for the couplings amongst other things...

I would think electrolysis would be your best bet. I think you'll get good results on the plate but my guess would be that the height gauge is toast as the markings will be too shallow.

Pics of the rust...

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Hi Neil,
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I've been thinking recently about a milling machine similar to the Warco you have ordered above (milling steel is potentially on the cards).
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Are you going to do a build log, if you're converting to CNC? - I'd be most interested if so.
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Cheers
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Chris

Hi Chris, yes ill do a build log. Might even do an unpacking/crating (or whatever) log and then a conversion log...depends on work commitments as to the timescale though!

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