Looking good joe...now to wait....
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Looking good joe...now to wait....
Cheers guys - forgot my favourite photo?! Attachment 18450
Setting up these rails is insanely hard work!! I wish I had a straight edge the length of my rails... I managed to get one pretty much bang on but the more cap screws I add, the harder it is to keep the rail exactly straight... Time to take a break! https://vimeo.com/173678941
Evening guys - I have just finished mounting my rails - whoop - and have to say that is one long and screwy task!! I have attached a video of the various sounds of the bearings moving up and down depending on what they are mounted to as the hollow shs makes them sound much more noisy than on the aluminium. At least I hope that's what it is?! I've mounted these things pretty straight, parallel and level!https://vimeo.com/180356379
Joe Stop panicking they sound fine see what they are like when you put the gantry on:onthego:
Thanks Clive! It's just taken such a bloody long time I don't want to be doing it again! They sound about the same with the gantry on although the next task is to get that all squared up.... I'm sure it's fine - when I give the gantry a shove it keeps going for a while before it stops which I take to be a good sign.
These carriages also seem slightly rough when moving unloaded - try moving them with your body weight on them. Under load they become much smoother.
Perfectly normal Joe that's the preload your hearing/feeling. When greased and under load they will sound different again and work great.
Thanks Dean and Neale, reassurance is much appreciated!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Has anyone got any experience of these?
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Mo...H401-03-Nema23
Was wondering if it might be man enough to belt drive my x-axis??? I have no real issue with a nema 34 and 240v drive but would the 4nm nema 23 be faster..? The old issue of wanting this machine to do wood and aluminium! And remembering I have 5mm pitch screws.
I've got an 8Nm Nema 34 in my X axis and 240V drive but 10mm pitch screws....you could always go 2:1 on the pulleys. I cut plastics at 7500mm/sec and that's plenty quick enough 😁
How heavy is your X axis?
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Neil Are you sure:whistle:Quote:
I cut plastics at 7500mm/sec and that's plenty quick enough 😁
I'm not sure on the weight, not crazy as it is ali extrusion and 20mm plate - pretty standard L design! It wasn't standard when I started but people keep starting and finishing their builds while I keep trudging along at a snails pace! I was planning on going 2:1. Have you cut much wood - how slow can you go?!
Per min I'm guessing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Oops....its late and I was moving house all weekend....still at the old rented house now touching up paint, filling holes etc.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
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Quick progress shot to prove I haven't given up! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...df822d6532.jpg
Erm....yes...per sec would be going some!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
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Bet your glad your machine is a work! I don't fancy moving this beast!Quote:
Originally Posted by njhussey
Too right....had to use the forklift once it was on its frame, far too heavy to lift!
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Certainly looking good Joe. Re the nema 24 I use one on the Z on my mill but on the router very similar to yours I use two 23's but Dean when using one belt for the two screws uses a nema 34 but no doubt he will confirm this for you.
Joe that 4nm 23 will struggle with 2 x 5mm pitch screws. It will turn them no problem but you'll have to sacrifice speed and with only 5mm pitch your already down on speed. I'd estimate you'll get around 4mtr/min Max rapid speed which isn't really enough for router. Idealy you'd want at least double this.
With 5mm pitch you'll struggle to get this with any single stepper motor 34 or 23 unless you go for larger motor and use ratio 1:2 ie Big pulley on motor small on screw. You need the larger motor becuase the ratio lowers torque not increases. Also you'll lose resolution but because you effectively have too much to start with this isn't problem.
My original machine ran with 6Nm with 2005mm pitch screws on 1:2 ratio running on 70Vdc and worked perfectly for well over 5yrs.
My advise is either change to 10mm pitch with small ratio if using 4nm 23 or go with twin motors.
To give you some idea I've just built 2 x 1250 x 750 sized machines that are using twin 2010 screws with no ratio applied running on single 4.5Nm 34 with 72Vdc using AM882 drives and they are tuned at 10mtr/min.
Thanks Dean, I don't really want to have to replace the screws. This is what I mean about time passing - I based that decision on your old machine!! Would the larger mains voltage driver make a difference to speed? Are you saying a 4nm 23 could drive both of the screws if they were 2010? If so that would be a significant saving...
Well yes it would but still you'll be limited mostly by the 5mm pitch. Simple maths really 1000rpm would give 5mtr/min but with 10mm that would be 10mtr/min for same RPM. The larger motors start to lose Torque quickly after 1000rpm so at best you'll get 1500rpm which is only 7500mtr/min.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
Even then at 1500rpm your in the region where screw whip can start to become issue.
Yes it would, esp if 16mm dia but like I say you'll need ratio to increase torque. This will come at the cost of speed so you'll still be down in the 7500mtr/min area.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
If it was me I'd go with 34 and run them on 70vdc and see what you get. 8nm should get you around 5-6mtr/min before saturation takes affect. Then if want little extra speed apply ratio to increase. 8nm will have enough spare power to handle the ratio.
Thanks for the patient explanation. Just so I'm clear are you saying 5-6m/min with 5mm or 10mm screws?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
The things I have decided so far are:
> I want to use a csmio/ip-m
> I want to use it properly which means 3 motors and long belt on x
> I will use em806 drives on z and y with the 1605 screws I already have
The options are (all could be with or without ratio)
1. Stick with 2005 screws on x powered by 8nm nema 34 stepper and 240v drive
2. Stick with 2005 screws on x powered by 8nm nema 34 stepper and another em806
3. Swap screws for 2010 on x powered by 8nm nema 34 stepper and another em806
In order of preference I'm guessing you would say 3, 1, 2?
If I went with 2 as a starter I could see how it goes and swap out the screws in future... It's the only option which isn't insanely expensive!
With 5mm pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
This is why I'd go with the setup suggested. Easy to change up without costing the earth. If you make good job of alignment etc then you'll get 5-6mtr/min. Stick small ratio on and you'll get the speed up to point can cut most things.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
OK thanks Dean, sounds good. Tried to email chai to get best special price for some 2010s but email bounced... Wonder if he is still in business?!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Is 6mH inductance reasonable for a 8.7nm 34? i.e. this fella: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Mo...15-4208-Nema34
Drop Fred at BST automation on ali express message asking for quote. He's good guy to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeHarris
Yes 6mH is ok for such large motor. I've used these and nice motors.
I got my hiwin rails from Fred and yes agree he was very good. I'm working on a circuit diagram at the moment - hope to have that uploaded for scrutiny (a laugh at any rate) by you lot in a few days, so good to have that cleared up, cheers.
Practice run for the next bit of aluminium routing. Pleased with my new Trend jig which should make pocketing for the motor mounts a lot easier. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...6361176dea.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...d9ef6b1098.jpg
Coming along nicely Joe....liking the progress even if it is slow...you've still got a long way to go to beat how long it took me to make mine :beer:
Thanks Neil,
the encouragement is appreciated!
Attachment 19425
Attached is my first crack at a circuit diagram for the machine. I am not sure that I have got the pilz right and I think the estop circuit in general could do with some work as the spindle is not currently part of it. Do I connect to the same contractor I have for the stepper drive power supplies or another? I have a couple of relays left on the pilz X1 if I need them... Also, I'm sure I have read that you shouldn't just cut power to the VFD...?
I'll continue to work on it (and research) but thought I'd put it up for your amusement! As always any comment gratefully received :hopelessness:
(Just realised that the resolution reduces when you upload. I will try and sort out the text sizes as they are pretty fuzzy in places)
Joe The text is a bit small to read. You are showing a 68V power supply does this also provide the 12V to the fans
Sorry about the text. It looked OK until I uploaded it. When I get a minute I'll pump it up. Yes the 68v leadshine power supply powers the fans via 12v auxiliary: http://www.leadshine.com/productdeta...model=PS806-12Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Not very easy to read labels but I suspect your using the HV option on controller to turn on contactor.?
Don't use it my self because it's pain in arse.? It will drop the power to drives every time you put mach into reset. This means because the motors jump when powering drives you'll have to home the machine everytime mach goes into reset. Many times that will be ok but there are others when you don't want that. Like when making simple setting change etc.
I'd just have the E-stop safety relay switch contactor on.
Couple of small things I see.
#1 Fuse the Water pump.
#2 Run water pump 0V thru VFD relay so only comes on when spindle running.
Regards VFD power then wouldn't get too OCD about it.! The controller will Stop it spinning when see's E-stop so could leave it out of the E-stop system if you like.
But if you do want to Kill it then use Timer relay which is set to drop power after spindle stops spinning. Personaly I wouldn't bother because the few times you will Kill power while spindle is spinning won't hurt the VFD. Plus the VFD takes several sec's to power down anyway because of Caps. By which time spindle will have stopped.! . . . . . Anyway If Cutter is embedded in your hand you won't really care because you'll passout before VFD powers down.:hysterical:
Thanks Dean! I'll make some changes and up the text size. Appreciate the help.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Hi Guys
Don't know is it's just my old iMac but if i open the attachment then double click on it it opens a browser window and the screen can be enlarged with mouse click making the text legible.
Regards
Mike
It's them old buggers Mike....forgot to put their glasses on [emoji12]Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik
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Hey your not far wrong I've blown 2 transformer up because didn't put my glasses on . . . LolQuote:
Originally Posted by njhussey
But in this case the small writing for the I/O still isn't clear. Well on my PC anyway.!!