Comments sought on new build: A CNC Router for RC Gliders and Planes

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Today I have been preparing the floor for the delivery of the machines on Friday...love my new job!!

Hi Neil,
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A quick question (not critising your purchase), as I've been scouting about for milling machines with the same rough size as the Warco Major GH Mill. Does that machine use a round column or square dovetail?
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Reason I ask is I have also been looking at this as a candidate AMADEAL - AMA30LV Milling Machine - MT3 - Metric | eBay and it does use a dovetail, which from my limited knowledge is supposed to be more rigid?
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Cheers
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Chris

The column itself may or may not be more rigid - the rigidity gain comes from being able to move the mill head up and down, so you don't need to use the quill (much).

I chose the round column as it had for us the best features for our needs...whether I'm correct or not remains to be seen!

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I recently bought the Warco VMC vertical mill. I did look at the round-column machines, but I had already had enough of a round-column machine with its inability to maintain accurate location as you raise and lower the head. A real pain if you are going from centre drill to large twist drill, and don't have enough quill travel to cope. The VMC is more like a "baby Bridgeport" although maybe without the latter's build quality... In the end, the things that swung me to the VMC were the dovetail bed rise/fall, and the fact that the drive motor hangs down rather than pointing upwards, and I have limited headroom in my garage (my wife wouldn't let me cut a clearance hole in the bedroom floor!) The ability to put on cut by moving the bed makes up a lot for the slight movement in the quill assembly, which can then be clamped tight and not touched during milling operations.

Be interested in your comments once the lathe is commissioned; been wondering about upgrading in that area but there are a number of choices, including similar machines from Chester and Axminster.

The lathe and milling machine were delivered this morning, spent the afternoon siting them in the room. Not had a good look at them yet so can't pass comment just yet but they look like they'll be suitable for our needs.

Machines.
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Tools etc.
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In the room.
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Mill.
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Lathe.
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Tools.
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Originally Posted by njhussey

Hi Chris, yes ill do a build log. Might even do an unpacking/crating (or whatever) log and then a conversion log...depends on work commitments as to the timescale though!

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Cool look forward to that as we def need some mill conversion logs on here.

.Me

Hi Niel, I guess you think it's your birthday!!! Good luck. G.

It is like having a birthday G as I didn't pay for them but have full used of them :)

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Nice looking bits of kit. Good amount of free space around them for chips as well :-)

I'm just trying to persuade them to get a metal bandsaw...plenty of room there to make a mess!!

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Cleaned it up and fitted the quick release tool holder...what a great but of kit that is!

Done a test turn and quite impressed with it so far. Got to get the DRO reading correctly as it's showing half the actual value so will go through the manual tomorrow and get that sorted.

Tomorrow is setting up the milling machine and tidying up the area.

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If it reads half value on cross slide, could that be because one turn removes material from both sides if you get my drift? G.

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Originally Posted by GEOFFREY

could that be because one turn removes material from both sides if you get my drift? G.

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Yep... most people like to think in diameters not radii when working on a lathe.

Ok, to explain a bit more to see if I'm being thick (most probable) if I move the carriage handle (X axis) from 0 to 0.5 then the DRO shows 0.25. So is the DRO showing the actual amount moved (raduis) and the dial on the handle the amount taken off the piece (diameter)?

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Got it in one...

I'm used to a lathe where the cross-slide dial is calibrated in actual movement. Baffled the whatsits out of me the first time I used a machine calibrated in "diameter" instead - couldn't work out why I kept going through a measure/cut/measure/oh bugger cycle... Still, if it's anything like my mill with DRO, I can't remember when I actually read anything off a dial!
Is the lathe metric or imperial, and can you tell me how it manages screw-cutting of the opposite system - is there a 127T gear in there, or somesuch?

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Originally Posted by Neale

I'm used to a lathe where the cross-slide dial is calibrated in actual movement. Baffled the whatsits out of me the first time I used a machine calibrated in "diameter" instead - couldn't work out why I kept going through a measure/cut/measure/oh bugger cycle... Still, if it's anything like my mill with DRO, I can't remember when I actually read anything off a dial!
Is the lathe metric or imperial, and can you tell me how it manages screw-cutting of the opposite system - is there a 127T gear in there, or somesuch?

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I'm new to lathes (and milling machines) so still not sure about it all. All I thought was that the DRO would read the same as the handwheel dial, if the handwheel dial is showing diameter change and the DRO is showing raduis thyen all's good, however it looked to the naked eye that the cross slide was moving 1mm when the handwheel said 1mm but the DRO only said 0.5mm! I'lll set the DTI on it this morning and measure just to set my mind at rest.

Not tried screw cutting yet but it can apparently cut both metric (its a metric machine) and Imperial. Yes it has a 127 tooth gear plus a lot of others spare. I'll take some more photos of the gears it comes with and probably do a video of it cutting. Played with the speeds and feeds yesterday and got a nice finish so with more practice and reading up (I've got "The Amature's Lathe" and "Screwcutting in the Lathe" books so time for some bed time reading I think!) I think it's got a 32/85/100 combination currently fitted but not many of the gears are marked up (one more job on the list of things to do!)

Has anyone got any good recomendations for working out speeds and feeds, I'm sure I saw a post somewhere...will have a trawl at lunchtime.

Hi Neil
My mate Ken has a lathe the same make with DRO, will have a word with him after and see how his reads, one thing i did notice the gearbox/headstock seems noisy on his so he doesn't use it @ high speed.
Mike

Hi Mike, thanks for that. I'm messing about with the lathe and mill again today (currently cleaning and setting up the mill) so will put the DTI on the cross slide and see what it says with relation to the DRO and scale.

Some numpty in the (presumably) Chinese factory has jammed the drill arbour shaft so tight in the spindle that no amount of smacking 7 bells of s**t out of the drawbar is getting it out. I've been hitting the nut so hard that I now can't get a 19mm spanner on it....getting seriously p****d off with it now.....

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Originally Posted by njhussey

Some numpty in the (presumably) Chinese factory has jammed the drill arbour shaft so tight in the spindle that no amount of smacking 7 bells of s**t out of the drawbar is getting it out. I've been hitting the nut so hard that I now can't get a 19mm spanner on it....getting seriously p****d off with it now.....

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You should be able to lower the quill and knock a drift through the slot in the spindle to release it?

Hi Neil
Just checked Ken's machine and the DRO reads same as the dials,so you would put half the required amount you want to remove, there will probably be an option in the set up menu, I would imagine the "Y" axis should read the same as the dial reading. It's upto personal preference really, when working you can skim your OD Mike it and set your dial to suit, then use the DRO to put your cut on.
Tailstock/ remove the spindle and give it a coat of looking @ i think there should be a hole doing through into the tapered section, support the face of the spindle on your vice jaws and get a shaft down the hole and give it some welly.
Mike

Thanks guys...

Got it out but the top is looking a bit worse for wear! Just installed the ER32 collet and put a 5.5mm 2 flute end mill in and made some (rough)chips...still got to set up the coolant system, put the wide coolant tray in and then it'll be all systems go!

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Just bought some more resin....got to clean off the existing resin on the rails (it's now gone harder...but not hard enough). Will be starting to get the build going again as I've now got access to a lathe and milling machine!

Good luck getting the old resin off, how you planning on tackling it? I think a hot air gun would probably work but it'd definitely be an outside job.

Hi Neil
As mentioned hot air gun probably the best option, if you start @ one end and break the bond, then soften a further section and try and get a scraper under it then hopefully you might be able to peel it off @ in one go.
Good luck and wear an organic vapor mask and some thick welding gloves.
Mike

2 months ago it was peeling off in one piece as it was still soft.....it's now almost hard so might have to try a few things!!

Put the new 125mm milling vice on the mill on Friday and set it square, quite pleased with the first attempt...

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Tried getting the epoxy off.....and it came off really easily! Pleasantly surprised to say the least.

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New development on my build is that my work has just bought my router off me (well kit of parts so far) as they want to have one for cutting Delrin rings and other bits...I'll have use of it whenever I want (as well as the lathe and milling machine) so a bit of a win win situation for me as I can use this as a learning curve for building my own (probably larger one) later. Plus I'll be able to build this one in works time now legitimately :beer:

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Originally Posted by njhussey

Plus I'll be able to build this one in works time now legitimately :beer:

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Well make sure you put Servo's and all best gear on it so then if they go PoP you can buy it back cheap knowing it's got quality gear on it.:hysterical:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Well make sure you put Servo's and all best gear on it so then if they go PoP you can buy it back cheap knowing it's got quality gear on it.:hysterical:

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I was wondering whether to get a Nema 34 motor for the X axis as I'm going to drive both ballscrews with a belt. will I need one or will a Nema 23 3Nm one be ok or should I get another driver and stepper and do a slaved setup?

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Originally Posted by njhussey

I was wondering whether to get a Nema 34 motor for the X axis as I'm going to drive both ballscrews with a belt. will I need one or will a Nema 23 3Nm one be ok or should I get another driver and stepper and do a slaved setup?

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If your driving both with single motor then yes you'll need Nema34 about 6 to 8Nm but make sure you use high power drives for best performance.
My personal preferance is screws connected with belts but if you run slaved motors well within there capabiltys then you shouldn't have any troubles. The only thing I would recommend and will only Use with slaved setup's is Digital drives that have stall detect and provide a Fault signal which you can use to E-stop the system. If you do this then your safe with minimal risk of damage to screws when things go wrong.

What will the main use be.? and what size/pitchscrews are you using.?

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

If your driving both with single motor then yes you'll need Nema34 about 6 to 8Nm but make sure you use high power drives for best performance.
My personal preferance is screws connected with belts but if you run slaved motors well within there capabiltys then you shouldn't have any troubles. The only thing I would recommend and will only Use with slaved setup's is Digital drives that have stall detect and provide a Fault signal which you can use to E-stop the system. If you do this then your safe with minimal risk of damage to screws when things go wrong.

What will the main use be.? and what size/pitchscrews are you using.?

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I'm using RM1610 screws....main use will be plastics a bit of aluminium and possibly light cast iron work (spot facing cast iron couplings etc.) with a bit of balsa and lite ply cutting. I've got AM882's at the moment, they do up to 8.2A so a SY85STH118-6004B Nema 34 rated at 6A should be OK to drive?

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Originally Posted by njhussey

I'm using RM1610 screws....main use will be plastics a bit of aluminium and possibly light cast iron work (spot facing cast iron couplings etc.) with a bit of balsa and lite ply cutting. I've got AM882's at the moment, they do up to 8.2A so a SY85STH118-6004B Nema 34 rated at 6A should be OK to drive?

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Neil it's the 70-75Vdc limit of the drives that causes the problem with Nema34 motors. Larger motors need 100V+ to get decent speed out of them and that's why High power 240 Drives are best. Now with 10mm pitch screws and 75Vdc you'll get approx 8mtr/min of usable speed with a decent weight gantry. You'll possibly get higher speeds but they won't be reliable and could stall if pushed hard. That is more than enough for cutting most soft materials so again personally I'd go with single motor setup for reliabilty issues and to remove all doubt.!

That said AM882 are good drives for slaving has they have stall detect and can be used to stop system so either setup would work. You'll possibly get slightly higher rapid feeds from Twin motor setups as motors spin faster but that doesn't mean you'll get higher cutting feeds as the 34's tend to have more torque higher the RPM scale then drop off quickly.!

Cheers Dean, I'll probably go single Nema 34 and 240V drive!!

I presume that the below is some sort of tapping head? I've just dug it out of a box of large drill bits...anyone know exactly what it is and how it works?

Attachment 12691Attachment 12692

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Originally Posted by njhussey

New development on my build is that my work has just bought my router off me (well kit of parts so far) as they want to have one for cutting Delrin rings and other bits...I'll have use of it whenever I want (as well as the lathe and milling machine) so a bit of a win win situation for me as I can use this as a learning curve for building my own (probably larger one) later. Plus I'll be able to build this one in works time now legitimately :beer:

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Congratulations, great result.

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Congratulations, great result.

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Cheers...got some more epoxy and some MDF for the weirs so just have to find some time to get the rest of the epoxy off the rails (its coming off really easily luckily) but there's other works stuff taking priority at the moment.