Higher end Chinese controllers?

I know there's been plenty talk about the low end controllers on here and various other places, but has anybody came across anything about the higher end controllers?

I'm talking the 990/1000 series. I like the look of the 1000 type with the MPG panel, but there seems to be a void of any sort of information about what exactly they're capable of, and how much you can program them to handle things like tool changers. Most listings seem to mention PLC scripts and being able to custom edit them, but that's about as much info as I can find.

SZGH have manuals at http://www.szghauto.com/index.php?c=...&a=type&tid=40
but after having a scan through them, they mention nothing about custom programs. The CNC1000Mdbc(machine centre) manual does cover tool changers at the end, but I suspect quite a bit has been lost in translation.

I have a NEW990TDb 2 axis lathe controller, mine isn't setup as yet, the lathe isn't finished but we brought two into the country and Steve Blackmore up at St Helens has his fitted to an Orac lathe with VFD spindle and closed loop steppers and it's all working.

Not to bad to set up but now someone has done one the rest will be easy. Main thing is everything worked as it should, first thread was perfect.

Must admit though tool change will take some sorting out. On the lathe it has a plug on the back pulse +, pulse -, 8 sensor inputs and lock.
Probably be easier to hand over to an Arduino to do the sensing then hand back ?
Threading encoder, VFD and pendant just wired up fine to the supplied leads.

I should of mentioned I'm considering this for a mill, although I doubt there will be much difference between the similar mill/turn models.

John, have you or Steve looked to see if there's any way to edit the PLC/Ladder onscreen?
I'm not really wanting to start faffing around with bodges to get the tool changer working, I'd rather just wire it directly (probably via some sort of buffer/relay board), and have the controller handle everything.

A bit more searching has turned up a manual for PLC programming on a GSK218M on the cncmaker website - http://www.cncmakers.com/cnc/Tech_Su...r_Manuals.html (scroll down to the bottom) and they also list a PLC manual and software under the Turn controllers for the 983 series (which appears to be an analogue controller). Going by the manual they use pretty standard looking PLC/Ladder Logic, which I can handle.
I've just installed the 983 software, and it only covers GSK 983 controllers, as you have to select the model when you try creating a new ladder, so I'm guessing there is other software, or you can edit the PLC/ladders directly on the controllers.

My other option is to use a KFlop, but I like the idea of the self contained unit, rather than having a motherboard/keyboard/mouse/monitor scattered around.
But given a 4-axis unit with an MPG mounted on it is in the region of £1000 delivered, I'd want to know it'll definitely do what I need it to, before I buy one. I could email the suppliers and ask, however I'm not going to get much response this week, given it's China's national holiday week.

Did you guys read the connection manuals, not the general manuals? here is the one for the 990 controller. I have not read it all but i think its very well explained about the tool changers.

Spent the weekend doing ladder programming for my GSK980MDc. Not easy but doable. You cannot do it on screen unfortunately sk was going back and forth to the computer.

Really like my 980mdc, it does up to 5 axes and has built in logic for BT and Carousel type ATC's

Boyan, I never noticed there were different manuals. The GSK site stopped loading for me, however I got an Installation and Connection manual from the cncmakers website.
I've had a quick scan through it, and it seems to contain the necessary info, other than where to download the software :-/

Komatias, the SZGH/CNC1000 manual I mentioned earlier has a bit about the two types of tool changers at the end, however as I mentioned, it's not exactly clear as to what they're requirements are. Going by what I understand of the manual, it's aimed at certain changers which must be commonly fitted to machines.
Care to share some more info on what you're fitting one to?

They have also/ all the different manufacturers / additional boards, that they call" concentrator boards" so make sure you order the one with the relays on it. Its not expensive, i think, and will save you a lot of headaches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m_c

Komatias, the SZGH/CNC1000 manual I mentioned earlier has a bit about the two types of tool changers at the end, however as I mentioned, it's not exactly clear as to what they're requirements are. Going by what I understand of the manual, it's aimed at certain changers which must be commonly fitted to machines.
Care to share some more info on what you're fitting one to?

---

M_C, yes there are generic ATC's that you can buy from the orient. They work on switches so the output of each switch is fed back to the PLC which inidicates e.g. the ATC is in place for a tool change or that the drawbar is unclamped, etc etc. I was looking at one with a geneva mechanism recently that is not too difficult to make.

So I really want to share what it is fitted to but I have to resist the temptation. Suffice to say, the GSK was standard on the machine as were the GSK servos. When I am good and ready with the machine it is on, rest assured you will know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by komatias

So I really want to share what it is fitted to but I have to resist the temptation. Suffice to say, the GSK was standard on the machine as were the GSK servos. When I am good and ready with the machine it is on, rest assured you will know.

---

I understand. But tell me one thing. Did you find what is the real difference between 980 and 990 controls? I still can not find it reading the manual. Did you had any special preference not to buy the other company 1000 control versus the 980? As they are very similar. Or just price features commanded that decision?

Model numbering seems to be almost random. From what I've seen, I'm guessing 1000 series are basically 900 series but in a complete unit (900 series have separate display/control panels). The big problem with comparing models, is every spec sheet seems to be worded, laid out, and translated differently, so comparisons are hard to do.

I've had an email back from CNCMakers, and they've recommended the GSK218MC series, however as standard it only does a max of 3-axis simultaneously I.e it can only move 3 axis at any one time - I had to email them it clarify that.
I'm waiting to hear back.

I've also emailed Newkye to see what they recommend.

CNCMakers/GSK call the break out boards De-concentrators, and they have the option of basic ones that simply convert the 3 25-pin D connectors to screw terminals, as well as an output board with relays.

Chinese are on a vacation till end of the week. Its national holiday there.


They recommend the GSk218 as it is more expensive. They want too much money for it. Though i think it has to has some serious benefit for new modern machining centers.I have not looked deep into it. 980 and 990 are GSk but not the 1000, which is totally different company. The paneling is difference in letter V vertical, H horizontal and so on.

"Cnc makers" are very expensive resellers. Their only benefit is that they are a bit more responding, speaking english and have the web a bit better than typical chinese web. Nothing more. Their "wholesale" prices were ridiculous. And i said that to them.

I know the Chinese are on holiday, and I'm surprised I even got a response. I wasn't expecting any until next week.

CNCmakers just emailed back with the prices for the 218, and unless they offer something magical over a similar spec Newkye unit on aliexpress, they won't be getting much business. Prices quoted are $2300 for the standard 3-axis simultaneous version, or add $800 for the 4-axis simultaneously version.

I'm going to spend some time going through the spec sheets to see what the actual differences are between the models. I'm aware the H/V relate to the control panel orientation, and generally a T means Turn, and a M mean Milling, but the rest seems to be a bit of a lucky dip.

The main makes I'm aware of so far are, Newkye, GSK, and SZGH, although I'm sure there will be some re-branding going on.

if you are on the market for 1 controller only, i recommend to go with Newkey, as this is the cheapest, plus they stock both the 1000 and the 980/990.

Newkye do appear to be the cheapest, but what concerns me is the lack of information. Even the product listings on their website/aliexpress are pretty much all identical, with little information as to what the differences actually are.
.
Take for example on Aliexpress they have two 4-axis milling 1000 series controllers with Panel C (the panel I'd like), but one is a "best price NEW1000MDb" and the other a "Modbus type NEW1000MDc" with a $110 premium.
Is the difference between them simply one has Modbus, and what are they actually referring to as Modbus? GSK have controllers (983 series IIRC) that will only work with their own bus link servo drives, so are they referring to a drive control Modbus, or do they simply mean conventional Modbus for communicating with a PC. If so, does that mean the cheaper one doesn't have the ability to be drip fed from a PC?
.
The other thing I have noticed, is some controller manuals don't mention anything about being able to run of a USB stick. They have instructions for copying files from USB, but nothing about running from USB.
.
Having spent a good bit time looking through and comparing the GSK manuals last night, other than certain models having specific features, I suspect the difference between a lot of the models is simply different hardware, but still with the same key features.
The 988 series are the top of the range controllers, capable of 6 axis with 3 spindles.
1000/990 other than being physically different, I can't find anything majorly different in the specs.
983/980 (bus version) are for bus controlled servo drives.
218 seems to be a newer version of the 990, or a lower spec version of the 988.
.
Certainly for what I'm looking for, the GSK 218MC-H seems like the best fit. However the standard control panel doesn't include a MPG, but a remote MPG may be a better option.
.
I'm not going to make any decisions until I've heard back from the other suppliers, to see what they suggest, and what their prices are.

m_c,

If the road takes you anywhere near Bristol, come and have a look at the 980MDc on my machine to get a feel for it.

I perfectly understand what you are saying, after 2 weeks spent trying to figure things out and reading manuals. Its an absolute mess. I even have tried to make an Excel file so i could compare. They have absolutely no idea how to sell a product to an European or a Westerner in general.

You would not believe the insane conversations i had last 2 weeks with different Chinese companies.



What is your specific need that you find that you need the 218 versus 980 controller?

Komatias, I've not got any plans to be down that area, but if I do happen to be, I'll give you a shout.
.
Boyan, the GSK990 (their 980 now appears to be a bus link unit only) is just a pretty basic control panel, whereas their 218MC-H or V control panel comes with E-stop,FRO,SSO,Cycle Start/Stop knobs/buttons. The only option listed for the 990, is an additional panel, which is just a precut frame for adding your own controls.
The reason I'm looking at the Chinese controller option, is I want a ready made control panel, and don't want to be faffing around making one. If I wanted to do that, I've got a KFlop+Kanalog+KStep sat in a cupboard, or a pair of Mesa boards lying around that would work well for this machine, but both of those involve trying to mount a PC in the machine.

Quote:

---

but both of those involve trying to mount a PC in the machine.

---

I have just bought one of these:

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=34#JNF9C-2600

with a SSD it will also run off 12V It is being mount on the control box door inside. Using a mesa 5i25/7i76 combo

I have been looking on Alibaba and ther appears to be several cnc control makers making what looks like copies of the popular gsk and newke models. Not sure yet whether it is just the front panel or whether the whole unit is copied. As someone has said cnc maker are expensive but at least you have a good idea what you are purchasing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clive S

I have just bought one of these:

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=34#JNF9C-2600

with a SSD it will also run off 12V It is being mount on the control box door inside. Using a mesa 5i25/7i76 combo

---

I'm well aware of mini-ITX boards, but you still need to make a control panel.
Ideally I'd just like to modify/make a housing, wire the controller in, bolt it in place, configure it, and be good to go.
The big thing is cost/time.
A good metal industrial panel mount keyboard with track pad/ball is around £200, a suitable resistive touchscreen monitor is another £200, then you have the cost of separate switches, which will probably be at least £50 for good quality ones, and say another £50 for assorted wiring/connectors to connect that lot up. That's £500 before you even consider the controller or PC, which means you can quite easily spent £1000 on the hardware. Then you still need the time to design it all, build it, and wire it up.
Admittedly, that's buying stuff new, and building a good industrial quality controller, which is overkill for most hobby users, but when you need the machine to make money, you have to consider the whole picture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m_c

Newkye do appear to be the cheapest, but what concerns me is the lack of information. Even the product listings on their website/aliexpress are pretty much all identical, with little information as to what the differences actually are.
.
Take for example on Aliexpress they have two 4-axis milling 1000 series controllers with Panel C (the panel I'd like), but one is a "best price NEW1000MDb" and the other a "Modbus type NEW1000MDc" with a $110 premium.
Is the difference between them simply one has Modbus, and what are they actually referring to as Modbus? GSK have controllers (983 series IIRC) that will only work with their own bus link servo drives, so are they referring to a drive control Modbus, or do they simply mean conventional Modbus for communicating with a PC. If so, does that mean the cheaper one doesn't have the ability to be drip fed from a PC?
.
The other thing I have noticed, is some controller manuals don't mention anything about being able to run of a USB stick. They have instructions for copying files from USB, but nothing about running from USB.
.
Having spent a good bit time looking through and comparing the GSK manuals last night, other than certain models having specific features, I suspect the difference between a lot of the models is simply different hardware, but still with the same key features.
The 988 series are the top of the range controllers, capable of 6 axis with 3 spindles.
1000/990 other than being physically different, I can't find anything majorly different in the specs.
983/980 (bus version) are for bus controlled servo drives.
218 seems to be a newer version of the 990, or a lower spec version of the 988.
.
Certainly for what I'm looking for, the GSK 218MC-H seems like the best fit. However the standard control panel doesn't include a MPG, but a remote MPG may be a better option.
.
I'm not going to make any decisions until I've heard back from the other suppliers, to see what they suggest, and what their prices are.

---

At $2216 for the gsk218mc-H compared with $1460 (both plus postage), apart from a few switches what extra benefits are worth 50% extra cost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin Barron

At $2216 for the gsk218mc-H compared with $1460 (both plus postage), apart from a few switches what extra benefits are worth 50% extra cost.

---

That's what I'm trying to find out.
.
If the control panel doesn't come with FRO/SSO dials, you can't add them as the controllers have no analogue inputs, and that is one feature I use quite a bit. Turning a dial is far better than continually pressing buttons.
.
The 990/1000 series controllers also have less IO available. 218MC has 47 of each, whereas going by my quick count of a 990/1000 series manual, they only have 21 In and 12 Out defined as user configurable. I suspect some of the dedicated In/Out can be used by editing the ladder, but I'm not wanting to spend that much time reading the manuals just yet.
Creating an In/Out spreadsheet will be one of my next jobs, as I think the current retrofit will need less than 12 outputs.

After reading the manual for one of these controllers I'm not sure I want one if that's what happens when go wrong. . :whistle:

Attachment 19398

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

After reading the manual for one of these controllers I'm not sure I want one if that's what happens when go wrong. . :whistle:

Attachment 19398

---

Gotta love chinglish!! I can't read manuals like that without crying with laughterhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...7e32cc9d63.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...16073fc024.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...60e6e6aff8.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...6fcea9ff18.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...77853aa0a6.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m_c

That's what I'm trying to find out.
.
If the control panel doesn't come with FRO/SSO dials, you can't add them as the controllers have no analogue inputs, and that is one feature I use quite a bit. Turning a dial is far better than continually pressing buttons.
.
The 990/1000 series controllers also have less IO available. 218MC has 47 of each, whereas going by my quick count of a 990/1000 series manual, they only have 21 In and 12 Out defined as user configurable. I suspect some of the dedicated In/Out can be used by editing the ladder, but I'm not wanting to spend that much time reading the manuals just yet.
Creating an In/Out spreadsheet will be one of my next jobs, as I think the current retrofit will need less than 12 outputs.

---

Have a look at the chinese machine switches and handwheel layouts for the gsk controllers.

I have dealt with the Chines for over 20 years and some of the Chinglish is quite funny. I have two CNC controllers made by a company called Gunt. with a bit a grease or dirt in the right place it becomes quite offensive to the opposite sex.

Attachment 19399

Gary,

does it say cock on the picture of the tap too?

Sadly not, that would have been funny. It says cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by komatias

Gary,

does it say cock on the picture of the tap too?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jazzcnc

after reading the manual for one of these controllers i'm not sure i want one if that's what happens when go wrong. . :whistle:

Attachment 19398

---

lmao!, Im with Jazz!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m_c

That's what I'm trying to find out.
.
If the control panel doesn't come with FRO/SSO dials, you can't add them as the controllers have no analogue inputs, and that is one feature I use quite a bit. Turning a dial is far better than continually pressing buttons.
.
The 990/1000 series controllers also have less IO available. 218MC has 47 of each, whereas going by my quick count of a 990/1000 series manual, they only have 21 In and 12 Out defined as user configurable. I suspect some of the dedicated In/Out can be used by editing the ladder, but I'm not wanting to spend that much time reading the manuals just yet.
Creating an In/Out spreadsheet will be one of my next jobs, as I think the current retrofit will need less than 12 outputs.

---

The turning gsk980ta3 controller can use a handwheel pendant, number GSKsc10, http://www.cncmakers.com/cnc/control...G_Pendant.html

The NEW990TD-b also has a socket on the back for a pendant.

There are about 4 or 5 manuals for these type of controllers and they all differ, often to the model you may have.
Pays to read 2 or 3 page by page and select what matches your controller best. English isn't bad, Dean found a purler there though.

Most of the controllers have a connection for a pendant on them (although I've never paid attention to that bit in the manuals for those that come with a MPG built in...).
.
I've found another make, Weihong, to add to the list of candidates. They make the original NC-Step, however from first glance their panel systems seem to be a bit more up-market/modular. I'll need to have a read through of their manuals and find some prices to add to the comparison.
.
There are some brilliant translations though.
Ones that stick in my mind are the Bamboo hat, or mechanical hand tool changer, and weldings. There have been a couple times in the past where I've had to make use of a thesaurus to figure out what they've been trying to say.

Best one I ever saw was a reference to a water buffalo ???

Couldn't manage to work that one out though so got the spares list and cross referenced the picture.

It was a hydraulic ram

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John S

Best one I ever saw was a reference to a water buffalo ???

Couldn't manage to work that one out though so got the spares list and cross referenced the picture.

It was a hydraulic ram

---

Haha love it!
I feel a thread dedicated to chinglish coming on.

quote from other thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

However there are many potential pot holes it could fall down on like Canned cycles etc, long cycle times etc.
Lack of memory is also another issue. Even the higher spec controller is memory limited. 32Mb or even 64mb isn't enough for Large 3D programs and will require DNC to drip feed the code. For some 32Mb may seem plenty but I can tell you some the people I help have 3d files in the Gb's. Pauses or temp locks while dripping code, even if position is not lost, is problem on 3D surface because it leaves mark which wreck the job or at best cause extra work hand finishing.
Dripping from USB isn't always reliable and RS232 just defeats the point of stand alone Controller. All these things have to be tested and influence the final outcome.!! . . . . Unfortunately again we are back to Cracking open the Good or Bad Egg.?

---

After talking with a couple of manufacturers unfortunately that seems to be the case. The typical answer i received was:

Our CNC controllers are using standard G code, the system can be directly copied from the U disk file to the system processing, but can not directly use the U disk online processing.The file size depends on the disk space of our system.The largest disk space of our system is 128M.

Its incredible but the mini controller DDCSV1 beatas them on that front. I will continue its review in the relative thread. Just would like to say here that it reads and executes 10 million line file without a glitch. From start to end. There were some glitches at first and at the end i found that was because i was not using the original pen drive. Once i started doing that, 2 weeks of perfection till today, working 8h per day at least non stop.

If you wonder how i managed to make 10 million line file. Very simple. Milling 1300x1000, trochoidal using 6mm bit. it was not big on size though. So at the end that memory limit could not be such big problem as it seems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

There were some glitches at first and at the end i found that was because i was not using the original pen drive.

---

And when "The Original" dies what do we use?

- Nick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by magicniner

And when "The Original" dies what do we use?

- Nick

---

I think brand ones made for capturing HD video on phones or cameras will work right / card + usb adapter/ . Will buy one original kingston and will try. Problem comes from that i have 10 pendrives which are branded and i am not sure if original or no. But when i fit and SD card inside my Samsung Edge 7 and start recording video at HD or 4k it will become pretty obvious if original or not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

So at the end that memory limit could not be such big problem as it seems.

---

But how large was the file size.? 10 Million very small lines won't take much memory. Try complex 3D surface at that physical size and see how it performs. If it loads that file then I'll be impressed..:thumsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

But how large was the file size.? 10 Million very small lines won't take much memory. Try complex 3D surface at that physical size and see how it performs. If it loads that file then I'll be impressed..:thumsup:

---

That good enough for you? I don't think a bigger file can make any difference evaluating the controller. I paused it in middle and changed tools, re zeroed and started again/ broken tool/. I stopped it later, remembered the line and when i had time started from line 2 500 000. Controller was busy 15 minutes until it went to that line and started perfectly from there. I don't have doubt the DDCS V1 is a working controller. I know how to square with it the gantry, how to tool change and all that stuff. It homes perfectly and mind that, can be made to repeat 5 times at the sensor and you control the backoff.
I will write all that in detail when i have time, but i am impressed.


Attachment 19479

Boyan what is the significance of the 233mB file shown in the pic.

Quote:

---

Thelargest disk space of our system is 128M.

---

What is the actual gcode file size?