Just blown up my inverter

After trawling through countless online videos and documents to wire up the Huanyang 2.2kw VFD I was finally confident enough to get the wiring correct. Taking the plunge I got all the wires in the order depicted in the many documents.
Plugged in and switched on. After what appeared to be a lifetime waiting the inverter kicked into life.

My next step was to get the programming out of the way, this also was successful. Pressed run and the spindle started turning.

Now this is where it all went wrong. I wanted to see how fast the spindle was turning and pressed >> button a few times might and various modes were selected. I considered that I had changed the programming somehow since i had, had it running.

My only course of action was to start again. When I had completed the program inputs. I switched the unit back on and "Bang" all the power went off in my workshop and smoke pored from the unit.

Now prior to the spindle working okay and me attempting to fix things via programming I was pressing the Run btn, the spindle behaved strangely to this in that it would sort of chug round a couple of times the unit went into error.

Could the spindle have been at fault, if so how could i test it without an inverter? Is it possible to sick a 13amp plug on it and connect it to an outlet?

Don't want to get another inverter and blow that up due to a faulty spindle.

And all I wanted to do was to see the RPM and my next step would have been how to adjust the speed.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lodds

Is it possible to sick a 13amp plug on it and connect it to an outlet?

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NO

I may be wrong - but - I do not see how it is possible to blow up an inverter by parameter setting. (This is an invite to members to point out otherwise:dread:)

The first test of your spindle should be with a multimeter before connecting to the VFD. If there are four wires one should (but not necessarily) give earth continuity to the case of the spindle. the other three should give approx the same resistance reading between any two pairs*. These tests are done at the VFD end before connecting the wires.

Shorted wires will cause currents large enough to blow the output gate transistors and give the grand illusion of failure with a large amount of magic smoke.
Open circuits can give voltages in the output stages of the inverter enough to do the same.

Your inverter may be repairable, but repair costs will be as near to replacement cost as to make it not worthwhile.

DON'T take your inverter to pieces - you will lose any chance of a warranty claim.

*without getting my spindle out of the box - I can't tell you the values

Can you post a drawing showing how you connected everything ?
Also which parameters did you change and what value did you use ?

To be honest not really sure what I had changed, I was digging a hole that just got deeper. As I said it did work when I first started.

Hopefully the file got attached.

Can't see any files, did you check it was attached before logging out ?
I didn't mean what did you change at the time of the fault, I meant which parameters did you change from default at the time you got, "the programming out of the way"

These are the settings I changed.

General VFD setup:
Here's the correct settings for the Huanyang VFD that always seems to come with these kits.[/FONT]

PD013 - 8 MASTER RESET <<< DO THIS FIRST [Jonathan Edit: I prefer not to input this reset command, as often they've set a lot of the settings for you, so it saves time to leave it and you'll spot any settings that are wrong when you set the rest, so there's no risk]
PD005 - 400Attachment 23475
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 1.20
PD008 - 220
PD009 - 15
PD011 - 120 [Jonathan Edit:*No, this is a common misconception. This setting is the lower frequency limit, so setting it to 120Hz means you can't run the spindle below 7200rpm, which originated from the air cooled spindles which would burn out below this speed. This is not a problem with water cooling, so*you can set it to zero. You wont get much torque below 7200rpm, but down to about 3200rpm is useable for drilling small holes in aluminum if you don't have carbide drills.]
PD014 - 1 [Jonathan Edit:*This is time to accelerate to rated speed. It may be better not to set it as low as 1 second (e.g. 2) to reduce the starting current, or if you don't appreciate the lights dimming every time you press run.]
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00*
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000, factory setting is 1440 ->3000 gives correct RPM of 24000 at 400hz

Control Settings:
For spindle Start/Stop using Mach controlled relay connect DCM to FOR with the relay wired between the two. NOTE: Wiring DCM to REV will give reverse spindle rotation.

For variable speed control using a 10k ohm pot connect ACM and 10v to the pot with IV on the Wiper.

PD001 - 0 = Start from VFD Panel(Manual control), 1 = Control from inputs(use if Mach is start/stopping your spindle as explained above)
PD044 - 2
PD045 - 3

wiring diagram ? or did you just connect the power in and motor without adding any control wiring ?

240v Inverter

Blue to R
Brown to S
Earth to Earth

spindle

Using normal 13amp extension cable

Blue to U
Brown to V
Yel/grn to W

A proper diagram is essential, for your own sake too, but it seems you don't have one.
So just to be clear, you connected the spindle cable cores to UVW at the inverter, and where did you connect the other ends at the spindle itself ?. (I don't have one of these spindles so I'm not sure what terminals are provided) Did you use any of the cores as an earth wire ?

No I never used an earth, the plug has 4 connectors and one of them is left empty (No 4)

My soldering is NOT the best in the world and I'm wondering if there was a short in the plug on the spindle. I didn't see anything when I took it apart could that have caused the damage if it had shorted?

Quote:

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"No I never used an earth, the plug has 4 connectors and one of them is left empty (No 4) "

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That sounds good and correct.
Pin 1 Phase 1
Pin 2 Phase 2
Pin 3 Phase 3
Pin 4 Not Connected

The spindle needs checking out as cropwell explained.
Regarding parameters I would change these.(when you get the new vfd)

PD014 acceleration time, 1 second is too short in my view, 5 seconds sounds better especially in the early stages of setting up.
PD015 decceleration time, same as above set to 5
PD142 motor rated current, set this to current specified for the spindle, I looked at some and the correct figure seems to be 8.5
PD143 motor poles, I don't know myself how many poles these spindles have but if people are using a value of 2 then it seems reasonable.
PD001 set this to 0 if you are using the keypad controls.

I'm wondering if you have reversed the motor several times without realising it from the front panel buttons, with ramp times of 1 second this may have caused some damage.
As you say, a short at the spindle end would not do the vfd much good.

Also check this;

PD026 stopping mode, it should be set to 0 (decceleration stop)

Just to help things along in future, I would always let the spindle come to a standstill before pressing RUN again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lodds

No I never used an earth, the plug has 4 connectors and one of them is left empty (No 4)

My soldering is the best in the world and I'm wondering if there was a short in the plug on the spindle. I didn't see anything when I took it apart could that have caused the damage if it had shorted?

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A good photo of the wiring and spindle plug would help, was the plug connected securely as a loose connection can be bad for the vfd.

I take it you meant (not the best) as a dry joint could also cause problems.

Don't mess with it, return it as faulty!
A decent VFD will detect an incorrect load, be it short or one or more disconnected phase (some detect open circuit but not all) and simply refuse to drive it with an appropriate error code rather than emit Magic Smoke!.
You shouldn't be able to bugger a VFD even by shorting the output, it should detect current overload, shut down and give you a meaningful error.
It's a bad 'un, send it back and buy something decent!
Regards,
Nick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

was the plug connected securely as a loose connection can be bad for the vfd.

I take it you meant (not the best) as a dry joint could also cause problems.

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To be honest I think it was a bit of both. I have placed an order for a new VFD and spindle, and have ordered 2 additional plugs so I can get the soldering right on my next attempt.

You guys are the best, thanks for all your help and not being judgemental. Merry Christmas to you all.

Just wired up the new VFD and changed the programming as before.

When I press "Run|" the spindle turns for about 2sec then I get an E.ora message and the spindle stops, any ideas? Seems I have been here before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lodds

Just wired up the new VFD and changed the programming as before.

When I press "Run|" the spindle turns for about 2sec then I get an E.ora message and the spindle stops, any ideas? Seems I have been here before.

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Are you using the same spindle? Have you rewired the Plug on the spindle. What parameters have you changed?

Which vfd did you get as there are a few types? Pictures would help.

Hi Clive,
Thanks for the response.

I'm using the new spindle.

I have now got it working without error. I changed back some of the settings I had changed earlier. now it runs full pelt without error.

Just to to understand now how to display RPM and how to drop the speed?

Thanks
Tony

Oh Forgot, this is my kit

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2KW-WAT...53.m2749.l2649

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lodds

Hi Clive,
Thanks for the response.

I'm using the new spindle.

I have now got it working without error. I changed back some of the settings I had changed earlier. now it runs full pelt without error.

Just to to understand now how to display RPM and how to drop the speed?

Thanks
Tony

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Tony Just because it is running at full pelt does not mean it is correct! So I would go through the setting carefully to make sure they are correct. It is impossible to help with the parameters without knowing what you have set them to.

You don't want a repeat of what happened before:apologetic:

Forget about that spindle displaying RPM. Why would you need that?

You will need only to fine tune the input voltage and the voltage adjustment in the VFD , so your spindle to run correctly at 3000, 6000, 10000, 12000, 16000, 18000, 24000 rpm, Once you have done that more or less, as its always a compromise, then you are done. When all is controlled from software and runs well, why would you need spindle to display RPM?

I was like you at the start, but in reality it could be 3 years before you look at the VFD if all is running as expected...

Boyan, I have to disagree to an extent.
If the facility to display RPM is there and it's easy to achieve then why not use it ? I use the RPM display every time on my machine.
Most inverter related problems on the forum are due to untrained people trying to use them.

A lot of problems on the forum are RTFM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cropwell

A lot of problems on the forum are RTFM.

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Do you know how bad is to be a perfectionist and not understand anything from VFD manual? :hysterical:

I remember first time reading VFD manual , something like 300 pages. My brain burned trying to understand what they are talking about and especially not to make a costly mistake and some magic smoke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

Do you know how bad is to be a perfectionist and not understand anything from VFD manual? :hysterical:

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I wouldn't know that, I am not a perfectionist. If you want to know how it is to not understand anything from a manual try Macro Level CICS from IBM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

... My brain burned trying to understand...

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Hahaha!
I know what you are talking about!
This is a constant for me when reading chinglish ;)


Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk

Chinglish is great, my linked in is mostly Chinese contacts and everyone is called Kate or Bob lol ;)

I managed to understand enough of the manual that I was able to correct the initial programming of my HY inverter so that it showed the correct speed. As delivered, it worked fine but the speed readout was half what it should have been (based on the frequency display). Eventually I changed the "motor poles" setting which seems to have absolutely no effect on motor or speed but does correct the internal frequency-to-speed calculation so that the display is correct.

I used to use the display all the time on my Mk1 router which used manual inverter control, but since I installed it on the Mk2 with Mach3 control I barely look at it. I glance occasionally, but only when I'm wondering what the error between Mach3 and the actual speed is. Generally it runs a few per cent faster than commanded, but given that there is a digital-to-analogue and analogue-to-digital conversion going on there, that's not at all bad. And if a few per cent faster is the difference between something working and something not working, then I'm too near the limit anyway :smile:

Neale, provided the vfd does not use a sensorless vector control algorithm I think you are correct in assuming that motor poles will affect the speed reading only.
Also we are still waiting for feedback from Lodds about his new parameter settings.

In reality i will be more interested to see tha Amps in real time, not the Revs. but anyway i barely ever look at it. Only if something does not sound right i check with a glance the speed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Tony Just because it is running at full pelt does not mean it is correct! So I would go through the setting carefully to make sure they are correct. It is impossible to help with the parameters without knowing what you have set them to.

You don't want a repeat of what happened before:apologetic:

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Hi Clive

Thanks again. I set the parameters as before using the same document I posted here in a previous post. I had also been in contact with the supplier. I have viewed a number of different YouTube videos some I thought were conflicting information.

My current position is that I have the spindle up and running and fixed to 12000 RPM, seems this speed is okay for most cutters?

I now know how to change the speed by setting the Hz. I have seen that some of you have fitted a Pod. Think I'll steer away from that for the moment, else I know what my next post will be on here.

So long story short I now have it working.

I have to install some sort of cooling setup, pump ordered just got to wait for it to arrive. In the mean time I use it for ruining perfectly good pieces of timber.

Thanks for all your help.

Tony

Quote:

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My current position is that I have the spindle up and running and fixed to 12000 RPM, seems this speed is okay for most cutters?

I now know how to change the speed by setting the Hz. I have seen that some of you have fitted a Pod. Think I'll steer away from that for the moment, else I know what my next post will be on here.

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Ok fitting a pot is very simple See this post #1 http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7388-...hlight=fitting

Re the speed fixed to 12K what hz does it show as you might not have the motor poles set right it is either two or four I think it is pd143 set it to two

also as Eddy has pointed out pd14 ad pd15 need to be set to about 5 seconds

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Ok fitting a pot is very simple See this post #1 http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7388-...hlight=fitting

Re the speed fixed to 12K what hz does it show as you might not have the motor poles set right it is either two or four I think it is pd143 set it to two

also as Eddy has pointed out pd14 ad pd15 need to be set to about 5 seconds

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200Hz is what the spindle reads at 12k.

I have made the changes you suggested in your post.

Thanks