Mach3 - weird coodinate shift with inch/mm gcode change

I have just seen some Mach3 behaviour which I did not expect, and I'm wondering if this is a bug or a misunderstanding on my part.

My Mach3 setup is configured to use mm, so all units are in mm or mm/min or whatever. Normally, I generate gcode with Fusion 360 or Vectric Vcarve using mm, and I have never seen any problems. However, almost by accident, today I generated gcode that used inch units. Never mind, I thought, Mach3 should be able to cope with that. However, what seems to happen is that as soon as Mach3 loads (not runs, just loads) the gcode, it tries to switch everything to in from mm. Not only the default feedrate, but even machine coordinates. So, before loading gcode I have set work zero on a corner of my workpiece. I load the gcode and Mach3 then converts the machine coords into inches but doesn't seem to handle the offset of the work coords correctly so the work zero is somewhere a long way from where it should be - in my case, so far out that when I tried to run the gcode (before I noticed this coordinate shift) it tripped the soft limit warning - fortunately.

In my innocence, I had assumed that Mach3 would see the "inch" command (G20), interpret all the dimensions/coordinates in the gcode and translate them internally into mm, and happily carry on. Instead, it seems to see the G20 while initially parsing the gcode as it loads, which promptly screws it up completely. As part of my testing, I went back to F360, made absolutely no changes except for specifying mm as the units, generated the gcode, loaded it into Mach3, and Mach3 immediately went back to all the correct units without any other action on my part (no need to reset, rehome, anything). So, is the problem that Mach3 just doesn't understand the significance of G20/21, or is it something to do with my CSMIO-IP/M which is upsetting it, or something else? Or is Mach3 brain-dead? You can guess my choice...

The workaround is obvious - only feed Mach3 with metric gcode, which in my case is not a big deal - but I don't see why the "inch" version should not have worked. Has anyone else seen this?

Well, I've probably found the answer myself. It was only while starting to write this post that I actually understood what was happening - at first, I didn't even realise that it was due to an in/mm issue - and as a result googling around for answers wasn't very useful. You do need to know the right question before you can get the right answer...

Looks like Mach3 doesn't really handle in/mm G20/21 commands the way I would expect. However, it should work OK (according to what I have read) if you load the gcode, and then set the work coordinate zero. I was setting the work coords and then loading gcode. It still doesn't make much sense to me, but at least it looks like a way to handle gcode created using the "other" set of units.

If you must run both imperial and metric code, it's recommended to set up separate profiles for the different units.
There are a lot of things that can go wrong, especially if there are commands that send the machine to machine coordinate locations. And there are probably a few bugs in there somewhere as well.

Mach3 isn't doing anything funny, it's doing what the code you feed it tells it to.
In addition to a units command G20/G21 is there a G54 through G59 in there?
Unless you have set your zero in G54 switching to G54 through G59 will lose you your zero.
It's common for people to be operating in your machine's Absolute Co-ordinates without being aware that multiple offsets are available and to be surprised when a G54 throws them a curve ball.

I freely admit that I fell into that classic IT trap, which is that there is often a disconnect between what the software writer thought the world looks like, and what the user expects. Sometimes these are the same thing, and all goes beautifully. In this case, though, my interpretation of G20/21 from both Mach3 and LinuxCNC documentation led me to expect different behaviour from what Mach3 actually does.

My interpretation - G20/21 say "all the coordinates in the rest of this gcode file are in in/mm units and interpret them that way." Doesn't sound difficult to me - in simple terms, anything following one of XYZABCIJK gets divided by/multiplied by (depending on native units and what's being read) 25.4. Then carry on using those values, but leave the GUI unchanged. I was expecting Mach3 to continue to display in mm, while reading incoming data in inches and converting it.

What I actually saw was Mach3 reading a G20 command, saying "This user now wants me to completely move away from my previously-defined mm state and work and display in inches" - so it changes the DRO coordinates, feed rates, etc. What it does not appear to do is convert the work offsets (G54 table, etc) from mm to in, which would have maintained the work coordinate zero, which seems to me like an inconsistency but I expect that there is a reason for it. This was not the behaviour that I expected. I'm not saying that it's wrong, just not what I would have expected. However, this is also why setting the work coordinate origin after loading gcode will work.

In my case, the simple solution is to make sure I tick the right box in F360 or Vectric Vcarve, my gcode generators of choice, and only ever produce mm unit gcode as this is infinitely easier than having to manage two profiles (and keeping macros in step, etc), maybe having to reload profiles as I move between different gcode files.

Gerry - I note that you have answered this question elsewhere years ago, but as I mentioned, until I realised why this was happening, I couldn't google successfully for the answer! It took me a little time to note that the gcode was in inches not mm, as I hadn't even considered that this might have been the problem.

Nick - not really a work offset issue, I think (except as noted above) as exactly the same model produces correct gcode with all the same setup and CAM parameters with only the mm box ticked instead of in. I'm fairly happy with the G54, etc, set of values as I have hand-edited these before when combining multiple gcode files to machine a batch of objects, all of which had the same (0,0) origin when their gcode was created. By using multiple work coord offsets set manually to suit my machining jig and adding a judicious G54, G55, etc, in the gcode, it all worked fine.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Quote:

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What it does not appear to do is convert the work offsets (G54 table, etc) from mm to in, which would have maintained the work coordinate zero, which seems to me like an inconsistency but I expect that there is a reason for it. This was not the behaviour that I expected.

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This would probably be classified as a bug.

It's not a bug, it's simply down to the operator to get it together and work in either Metric or Imperial and set the CAD, CAM, machine and controller up accordingly.

My feeling is that software (and anything else that is supposed to help us) should allow us to do the job the way we want, and not impose unnecessary restrictions on us that could be avoided. Yes, we can't beat the laws of physics and some other physical constraints. There is also the valid point, as I alluded to earlier, that the software designer may have a different "world view" from a user which implies a certain way of working. I'm happy, more or less, with that as long as the implementation is consistent - which it does not appear to be in this case.

Nevertheless, Mach3 is well beyond its "best before" date so no-one is going to fix it, and fortunately there are a couple of easy workarounds in this case which mean that I do not have to manage two machine profiles or unreasonably change my way of working. Ho hum - that's life.

Gerry - out of interest, do you know what UCCNC would do in this situation? Does it recognise G20/21 and just do what you might expect?

UCCNC is unitless, so it will not do anything if it sees a G20 or G21. If you want to run both metric and imperial code, you need to setup separate profiles and use the appropriate one.

+1
Machine profiles, one for each set of units is definitely the way forward if for some unfathomable reason switching between systems of measurements.

Hey!

I am experiencing the same exact issue and I was wondering if you or anyone else can help me to figure out what I am doing wrong. I am new to mach3, as I recently switched from GRBL. I am using Aspire/Vcrave to generate some gcodes so I can machine it in mach3. for some reason the mach3 keeps up-scaling any gcode I try to load like by X10!

I have the mach3 set up to mm and the gcode is set to metric for sure. For some reason the mach3 reads millimeters as if the were centimeters, i.e if the gcode was 100 x 100 x 6 mm it show it as 100 x 100 x 6 cm!
At this point I am not sure how to deal with this issue.
I will be really thankful if anyone can provide help or a solution.

Thanks in advance!

How are your units set up in CAD/CAM?

Everything is setup to mm.


Take the gcode bellow as an example, which I have already tired. it suppose to be 35 x 35 x 1.6mm however, mach3 sees it as 35 x 35 x 1.6cm. I ran it as well as other gcodes while down-scaling mach3 to 0.10000 and they all run as they should. I am just trying to find if there's a setting I need to change in mach3.
Thank you

T1
G17
G21
G90
G0Z10.0000
G0X0.0000Y0.0000S2000M3
G0X61.8275Y126.3275Z0.5000
G1Z-0.2000F200.0
G1Y127.6725F200.0
G1X63.1725
G1Y126.3275
G1X61.8275
G1X60.5575Y125.0575
G1Y128.9425
G1X64.4425
G1Y125.0575
G1X60.5575
G1X59.2875Y123.7875
G1Y130.2125
G1X65.7125
G1Y123.7875
G1X59.2875
G1X58.0175Y122.5175
G1Y131.4825
G1X66.9825
G1Y122.5175
G1X58.0175
G1X56.7475Y121.2475
G1Y132.7525
G1X68.2525
G1Y121.2475
G1X56.7475
G1X55.4775Y119.9775
G1Y134.0225
G1X69.5225
G1Y119.9775
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G1X54.2075Y118.7075
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G1X70.7925
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G1X54.2075
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G1X72.0625
G1Y117.4375
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G1X69.5225
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G1Y141.6425
G1X77.1425
G1Y112.3575
G1X47.8575
G1X46.5875Y111.0875
G1Y142.9125
G1X78.4125
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G1X46.5875
G0Z0.5000
G0X61.8275Y126.3275
G1Z-0.6000F762.0
G1Y127.6725F2540.0
G1X63.1725
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G1X61.8275
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G1X60.5575
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G1X66.9825
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G1X52.9375Y117.4375
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G1X72.0625
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G1X70.7925
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G1X52.9375Y117.4375
G1Y136.5625
G1X72.0625
G1Y117.4375
G1X52.9375
G1X51.6675Y116.1675
G1Y137.8325
G1X73.3325
G1Y116.1675
G1X51.6675
G1X50.3975Y114.8975
G1Y139.1025
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G1Y114.8975
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G1Y140.3725
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G1Y141.6425
G1X77.1425
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G1Z-1.0000F762.0
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G1X63.1725
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G1X64.4425
G1Y125.0575
G1X60.5575
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G1Y130.2125
G1X65.7125
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G1Y131.4825
G1X66.9825
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G1X58.0175
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G1Y132.7525
G1X68.2525
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G1X56.7475
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G1Y134.0225
G1X69.5225
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G1X55.4775
G1X54.2075Y118.7075
G1Y135.2925
G1X70.7925
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G1X54.2075
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G1X72.0625
G1Y117.4375
G1X52.9375
G1X51.6675Y116.1675
G1Y137.8325
G1X73.3325
G1Y116.1675
G1X51.6675
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G1Y139.1025
G1X74.6025
G1Y114.8975
G1X50.3975
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G1Y140.3725
G1X75.8725
G1Y113.6275
G1X49.1275
G1X47.8575Y112.3575
G1Y141.6425
G1X77.1425
G1Y112.3575
G1X47.8575
G1X46.5875Y111.0875
G1Y142.9125
G1X78.4125
G1Y111.0875
G1X46.5875
G0Z0.5000
G0X61.8275Y126.3275
G1Z-1.2000F762.0
G1Y127.6725F2540.0
G1X63.1725
G1Y126.3275
G1X61.8275
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G1X64.4425
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G1Y130.2125
G1X65.7125
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G1X59.2875
G1X58.0175Y122.5175
G1Y131.4825
G1X66.9825
G1Y122.5175
G1X58.0175
G1X56.7475Y121.2475
G1Y132.7525
G1X68.2525
G1Y121.2475
G1X56.7475
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G1Y134.0225
G1X69.5225
G1Y119.9775
G1X55.4775
G1X54.2075Y118.7075
G1Y135.2925
G1X70.7925
G1Y118.7075
G1X54.2075
G1X52.9375Y117.4375
G1Y136.5625
G1X72.0625
G1Y117.4375
G1X52.9375
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G1Y137.8325
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G1Y116.1675
G1X51.6675
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G1X74.6025
G1Y114.8975
G1X50.3975
G1X49.1275Y113.6275
G1Y140.3725
G1X75.8725
G1Y113.6275
G1X49.1275
G1X47.8575Y112.3575
G1Y141.6425
G1X77.1425
G1Y112.3575
G1X47.8575
G1X46.5875Y111.0875
G1Y142.9125
G1X78.4125
G1Y111.0875
G1X46.5875
G0Z0.5000
G0X61.8275Y126.3275
G1Z-1.4000F762.0
G1Y127.6725F2540.0
G1X63.1725
G1Y126.3275
G1X61.8275
G1X60.5575Y125.0575
G1Y128.9425
G1X64.4425
G1Y125.0575
G1X60.5575
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G1Y130.2125
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G1Y123.7875
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G1Y131.4825
G1X66.9825
G1Y122.5175
G1X58.0175
G1X56.7475Y121.2475
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G1X68.2525
G1Y121.2475
G1X56.7475
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G1Y134.0225
G1X69.5225
G1Y119.9775
G1X55.4775
G1X54.2075Y118.7075
G1Y135.2925
G1X70.7925
G1Y118.7075
G1X54.2075
G1X52.9375Y117.4375
G1Y136.5625
G1X72.0625
G1Y117.4375
G1X52.9375
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G1Y137.8325
G1X73.3325
G1Y116.1675
G1X51.6675
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G1Z-1.6000F762.0
G1Y127.6725F2540.0
G1X63.1725
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G1Y131.4825
G1X66.9825
G1Y122.5175
G1X58.0175
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G1Y132.7525
G1X68.2525
G1Y121.2475
G1X56.7475
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G1Y134.0225
G1X69.5225
G1Y119.9775
G1X55.4775
G1X54.2075Y118.7075
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G1X70.7925
G1Y118.7075
G1X54.2075
G1X52.9375Y117.4375
G1Y136.5625
G1X72.0625
G1Y117.4375
G1X52.9375
G1X51.6675Y116.1675
G1Y137.8325
G1X73.3325
G1Y116.1675
G1X51.6675
G1X50.3975Y114.8975
G1Y139.1025
G1X74.6025
G1Y114.8975
G1X50.3975
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G1Y140.3725
G1X75.8725
G1Y113.6275
G1X49.1275
G1X47.8575Y112.3575
G1Y141.6425
G1X77.1425
G1Y112.3575
G1X47.8575
G1X46.5875Y111.0875
G1Y142.9125
G1X78.4125
G1Y111.0875
G1X46.5875
G0Z0.5000
G0Z10.0000
G0X0.0000Y0.0000
M5

That code works just fine on my install of Mach3.

Where did you buy your Mach3 License, is it in your name?

Are the "units per" settings in the Mach3 config correct, or did someone use cm instead of mm there?

Quote:

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Everything is setup to mm.

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home your machine then zero the X then in the MDI put g0x100 f500 and check if the machine moves 100mm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by magicniner

That code works just fine on my install of Mach3.

Where did you buy your Mach3 License, is it in your name?

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Yes, the license is mine. I purchased it from a local woodworking shop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

Are the "units per" settings in the Mach3 config correct, or did someone use cm instead of mm there?

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The mach3 units per are config to mm.
When I go under the config > select native units > there're 2 options only, inches and mm. and mine is set to mm.
Can you set it to use a cm instead of mm? If so, how to change it back to mm?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

home your machine then zero the X then in the MDI put g0x100 f500 and check if the machine moves 100mm

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If I put g0x100 f500, my machine will run out of its limits. But if I put g0x10 f500 it will move 100mm (10cm) perfectly.

Thanks

Quote:

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If I put g0x100 f500, my machine will run out of its limits. But if I put g0x10 f500 it will move 100mm (10cm) perfectly.

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Well then I think that the steps per are wrong on the drives

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Well then I think that the steps per are wrong on the drives

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I set them using the "Set steps per unit" feature, under the settings tab. It's like they're X10.
My driver are set to 1/8 (1600 pluse/Rev) .
I am using Tr8*8-2p (4 starts). And nema 23 @ 1.8°

The co-ord stuff and scaling is sometimes iffy.
Mostly, it is not wrong, necessarily.

If the machine was set up with a certain abs. position, homed, then you use a different offset g54xx, it is unclear which units should be used.

Since the work co-ords are not tied to a scalar, how is the sw to know what is/was the correct offset base in global terms.
If a work co-ord is offset say 10,0 mm, and I switch to imperial, should the offset base adjust by /25.4. Why ?

Likewise, should the machine global values adjust, or not ?
Why ?

If the home switch in z is offset 10.000- mm in z, metric, and I switch to imperial, should the home-pos value adjust ?
If I read in the value into a parameter say #3000, should that number adjust ?
Why ?

I am NOT saying it is right, logical, correct.
What I am pointing out is that it is very complex with no clear right answers, mostly.

The UCxxx, and the chinese offline controllers, are mostly much less complex and don´t support a lot of the features in gcode.

Good call Clive!
I rarely think of the basic machine set up being at fault! :D

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Originally Posted by magicniner

Good call Clive!
I rarely think of the basic machine set up being at fault! :D

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I got it figured out! It was an extra decimal point. i.e step per was set 2000.xxx instead of 200.xxx
I guess, I assumed the step per start at 1600 and goes up.

Appreciate your help, everyone!

Now the step per is resolved, I need help to figure out why everything except square, rectangle, and straight lines come up deformed.

The shapes below were supposed to be 20mm circle, and 20x20x20mm triangle.

Attachment 25408

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Now the step per is resolved, I need help to figure out why everything except square, rectangle, and straight lines come up deformed.

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Could be missing steps ie. acceleration too high or voltage to the steppers too low. Or even excessive backlash. Or couplings loose on the motors.

Glad you got the steps per right now.

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Could be missing steps ie. acceleration too high or voltage to the steppers too low. Or even excessive backlash. Or couplings loose on the motors.

Glad you got the steps per right now.

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How to sort them out?
The only things I'm sure is not the issue, are the voltage to steppers and coupling, the seems/feel tight/fine.

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Originally Posted by CnCAbc

How to sort them out?
The only things I'm sure is not the issue, are the voltage to steppers and coupling, the seems/feel tight/fine.

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Well you was sure the steps were fine before. Post a pic. of the machine also what drives and what is the voltage supplying them. What is the acceleration settings in Mach.

Have you measured if the actual distance is the same for X100 and Y100

We don't have crystal balls to see these things.

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Originally Posted by Clive S

We don't have crystal balls to see these things.

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Yours in the shop for repair too? ;-)

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Originally Posted by magicniner

Yours in the shop for repair too? ;-)

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NO mine are in the pawn shop:beguiled:

I give you this one! I will double check everything and post pictures by tomorrow.

Don't tell me the crystal ball I recently purchased from the pawn shop was yours? lol

Thanks for taking the time to help!

Sorry for the late response. But I got it figured out, well, at least the mechanical part.
For some reason the mach3 won't take any backlash compensation values.
I tested the backlash using a dial indicator gauge, I'm getting readings of 0.03-0.06mm distributed between all these axes. However, when I enter the values in the mach3 backlash settings nothing happens.
I have tried it using the default 20% all the way to 100% without any changes within the dial gauge reading.

Is any of you guys is using the backlash compensation?
I am using pokeys57cnc as a motion controller.

As always, thanks in advance!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8fa49e10b4.jpg

I use Backlash Compensation in Mach3 and it works perfectly.

You're not just using the latest version thinking that will be best are you?

It isn't, the versions after the company changed hands are variations that range from Inexperienced Mash Up through to Truly Not Worth Using.

Just so you know ;-)

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Originally Posted by magicniner

I use Backlash Compensation in Mach3 and it works perfectly.

You're not just using the latest version thinking that will be best are you?

It isn't, the versions after the company changed hands are variations that range from Inexperienced Mash Up through to Truly Not Worth Using.

Just so you know ;-)

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No. I am not on the latest version.
Just to make sure that I'm doing it the right way, I shouldn't get the same numbers when I retest it, right?