8X4 router build advice if possible for a total novice please?

Hello, I'm considering either buying or if possible building a router to work on 8x4 sheets I'm also wondering how much more expense/space and is it even practical to build to take 10x5 sheets if I'm building one anyway?
I guess mostly I'll be wanting to machine ply/MDF/Laminated chipboard upto about 25mm but also would be wanting to machine solid timber for stair strings etc. If practical id like to be able to occasionally work plastic sheets and thin ally sheet.............and also as a really big ask would it be reasonable to maybe also adapt to take a plasma torch as well?.......yes I know that maybe a step to far!!

The base id be thinking steel box, I'd be more than happy with constructing that, I'm confidant my steel fabrications skills are well upto that, I've been reading and lurking on the forum for past few weeks and realise that design and planning is the 1st and most essential step before even contemplating starting any build....so for this I guess I need some advice on a simple to use drawing program? then from there I guess I'll be asking loads more questions ......hopefully you will all have plenty of patience with me!! Being new to this I'm more than happy to take and follow advice.

Some thoughts I'm having would be maybe I build the bed/frame, mount to rails and then maybe get someone with a lot more experience to build me the gantry/Z axis to help speed along the whole process......is this practical? Am I likely to find or even need anyone to do this for me?

As you can see I'm in a world of confusion at the moment so hopefully I'm in the right place for help!!
sorry for the long 1st post!
Steve

Welcome to the forum Steve.

Have you seen this one built by Jazzcnc on this forum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJB_75bLEIM I think he is the master of this size of machine

If I could get anything like half as good as that I'd be very pleased!! that's also put one thing to rest in my mind......I was unsure if I dare ask about using Ally for the gantry construction for a 4' width table but quite obviously its more than up to the job!!!

Hopefully the man himself will be along to offer help and advice over the next few days, I've seen plenty of his help and comments, great sense of humour too!!

Thanks Clive

I've had a search and read through some build logs but can find very few 8x4 machine builds......there was one I found but it never got past making the steel frame unfortunately

Clive beat me to it, JAZZ is the man

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Originally Posted by Newventures

Hopefully the man himself will be along to offer help and advice over the next few days, I've seen plenty of his help and comments, great sense of humour too!!

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I'm here watching, just staying quite to tease you....:joker: . . .I'll be back later.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

I'm here watching, just staying quite to tease you....:joker: . . .I'll be back later.

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I'm building site background and moved into trucking so sense of humour is something I'm very well known for and like so tease away :yahoo::yahoo:

I'd be tempted to buy 2nd hand
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Route...h/184247662175

Auctions like eddisons aren't a bad place to start lots of companies going to go bankrupt in the next 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

I'd be tempted to buy 2nd hand
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Route...h/184247662175

Auctions like eddisons aren't a bad place to start lots of companies going to go bankrupt in the next 3 months.

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I've been watching ebay and have had similar thoughts on what is going to be happening over the next few months, the only problem with buying a machine via ebay etc is having to lay out a lump of money in one go, I'd like some idea of a build cost for a home built machine to be able to compare....trouble is with that question is until it's spec'd and known how much I'd do myself and how much I pay out for things to be built then I guess it's a bit of a how long is a piece of string type question.........if I'm honest I've not really got a budget in mind I'm hoping that with a little....or lot!!.....of advice from here then I'd maybe be able to get an idea of costs, I'd prefer to do as much of the build as possible but then also need to be realistic in that I also need to see it finished and put to use as well so may need to farm some or more of the work out....

Thanks for the heads up on the Eddisons auctions........I can see some lost hours on the internet there as well now :distracted:

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

I'd be tempted to buy 2nd hand
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Route...h/184247662175

Auctions like eddisons aren't a bad place to start lots of companies going to go bankrupt in the next 3 months.

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Not starting at 8K plus Vat I wouldn't. Then you are still stuck with a Chinese made machine that's using a DSP controller that is notorious for failing and is probably what he mentions in the description when he says the engineers replaced the control board.!... Knowing these things it will be running standard DC steppers on Cheap drives as well.
The fact It's less than 4yrs old and already had main controller and spindle replaced says it all.!

It's ok buying a used machine provided you know what you are buying. But when your talking 10K + which by the time got it back home and up and running can quickly turn into 11k.
Then you still don't fully know how much wear n tear is on it so leave another 1K + in the budget for repairs or replacement parts. Then it gives you a lot of room to build a great machine that will do everything that one will. You'll also have a machine with much better quality components that are brand new so you can sleep easily for awhile knowing it won't need costly repairs.

Second hand isn't always the way to go, esp if it's come from a working environment and not been refurbished.

Ok I'm back n here goes.!!

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Originally Posted by Newventures

I've had a search and read through some build logs but can find very few 8x4 machine builds......there was one I found but it never got past making the steel frame, unfortunately

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Straight off the bat there's a good reason for this.? It's a common mistake that new builders assume that if you can build a small machine then a larger one can't be much harder.!. .Surely it's just a scaled-up small machine.?

Well Yes and No.! Yes in basic design terms then it's very similar but that's about where it ends, Everything else is different.

Frame building is more difficult because any errors are magnified so it needs much more care when welding and better measuring, alignment equipment which most people don't own. It's also not cheap or easily found. This is why they often fall at the first hurdle and end up with bent n twisted frames.

Then the design needs to account for the length so the selection of linear drive components and type is massively important.
This is usually then next fence they fall at because they choose the wrong type or made a poor job of implementing it into the design. So they end up with binding and sticking axis which is from the combined frame errors and poor implementation or component choice. The problem is they usually don't know this yet or if they do they don't realize the effect it's going to have.?

Next, come the motors and drives. If they get this far.!
Because of the twisted frame and the binding axis, they require more push. However often they buy motors or drives that are either only just suitable if the frame and linear movement side was perfect or as is usually the case they undersized them or if lucky they have very little overhead for error.

So when they get to this phase and find that there baby which they expected to fly struggles to even crawl they often chop the things into 3 pieces and build a smaller machine.!! (When they stop rocking and come out of the corner.!!)

Now that doesn't mean it's not Do-able but it does mean you have to go into this with eyes WIDE open and I won't bull shit you. It's not something I'd advise a first time builder to attempt unless they have a lot of patience with a good workshop and knowledge of using the tools.
Even then they will need to do a lot of research and fully understand why they are choosing the design they have or the components they decide to use.

If you want to chat about it I'm more than happy to give you my details and speak to you or coach you thru building if you like. However, there's far too much to be posting on here in any detail but I'm happy to advise thru the forum if you want to start a build thread, you just won't get all the juicy details...:hysterical:

Building a great machine is very possible but it's hard work and not something that can be done on the cheap. How much depends on how far you want to take regards components and like you say how long is a piece of string without deciding on a spec.! . . But expect at a minimum £5k for basic machine and £10k for a higher spec with servos and ATC etc.

PM me if you want to speak.

a small 600x1000x200 mm has parts 3-4k., i thought my build 8x4 would cost me in parts 6-7k, it cost me around 9-10k. That for very good machine. and it will take a couple of months at least even if you work with plans.

Used machines could be a deal or not, the main problem with them is they could be to limited in something, too specialized. Or just to power hungry for a home workshop or even for a proper work shop. And problems and no support.

There is nothing better than custom build machine for your specific needs. And even with the basic training and support from the builder you will be far far ahead.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Not starting at 8K plus Vat I wouldn't. Then you are still stuck with a Chinese made machine that's using a DSP controller that is notorious for failing and is probably what he mentions in the description when he says the engineers replaced the control board.!... Knowing these things it will be running standard DC steppers on Cheap drives as well.
The fact It's less than 4yrs old and already had main controller and spindle replaced says it all.!

It's ok buying a used machine provided you know what you are buying. But when your talking 10K + which by the time got it back home and up and running can quickly turn into 11k.
Then you still don't fully know how much wear n tear is on it so leave another 1K + in the budget for repairs or replacement parts. Then it gives you a lot of room to build a great machine that will do everything that one will. You'll also have a machine with much better quality components that are brand new so you can sleep easily for awhile knowing it won't need costly repairs.

Second hand isn't always the way to go, esp if it's come from a working environment and not been refurbished.

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I'd offer them a cheeky 5 in cash.

You never know until you try.

But also scour the proper auctions ebay is crap is routers, but a few routers have gone cheap through eddisons I've been tempted but no where to put them and always way up north.

Prices down south are twice the price of up north I noticed.

Transport and of course remember your fees and vat if your not vat registered.

hi there jazz new to the forum do you build and sell machine

I'm VAT registered so no real gain with a cash offer and as Jazz has said and what I fear the most buying 2nd hand is a risk.......add to that buying 2nd hand pretty much blind via auction site add to the risk, it would have to be A/ either a known recommended machine at the right price or B/ a real bargain to leave plenty in the pot for the unknown repairs that may or may not be waiting once home and set up........or better still as the conclusion I was/am pretty much at and after taking some superb advice build a machine tp the best of my ability/budget ......this way I'll know the machine inside out for any repairs/maintenance and hopefully gain a far superior machine.
Just gotta put my words into practice now :whistle::whistle:

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Originally Posted by warriors01

hi there jazz new to the forum do you build and sell machine

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Yes I do. Drop me a PM with a few details of what your looking for and I'll let you know if I can help and give you my contact details.