Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Hi All,
I'm about to venture into the world of CNC. I run manual machines; Colchesters, Bridgeports, surface grinders, and so forth with several years experience of manual machining. I am however totally green to CNC and high speed milling. Ive been using Fusion 360 for about a year for modelling and have the full package for work. I'm now in need of a CNC Router for aluminium. Work will generally be 2D within 400x400x20mm with occasional surface topography.
2 things really,
Firsty if anyone who has been on the same path could recomend some advice on a detailed beginners guide to follow, be it a book, website, or indeed a series of You Tube videos on the warts and all basics of CNC Gantry Routers and all associated control software, motors etc. At the moment im standing at the bottom of what seems like a huge learning curve!
Secondly, my budget is perhaps optimistically minimal, around £1600, ideally less!!! Ive boiled my search down to Sorotec hobbyline or Stepcraft D Series but im still fumbling around in the dark. Any advice on an affordable, user freindly, ridgid set up that will tackle Aluminium would be greatly recieved.
Many thanks,
Paul.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
DIY is best
I would go with a second hand CNC mini mill if i were you. With your experience especially.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Hi Paul,
Can't point you to a begginers one stop but you have everything you need here on this forum, you just need to spend some time reading and researching.
Researching being the key word because I can tell you with absolute confidence that you CANNOT buy a machine with £1600 that will be any good for machining aluminium and will last for any length of time. Don't be fooled by the videos that you see of these cheap machines cutting (scratching) aluminium, because yes while they will cut aluminium they don't do a very good job and cannot handle cutting for any length of time before they start to fall apart and the spindle blows up from the stress.
Cutting aluminium correctly requires a different level of machine build compard to a typical router that is used mainly for wood with occasional bit of aluminium work. Both those machines you mention are weak designs that come with poor components/electrics.
With only £1600 then your best option is to self build, if you don't want to self build then be prepared to double your budget if you want anything that is sturdy and reliable, even then you'll struggle to find many off the shelf options that are any good.
Now I know you have seen likes of Sorotec and Stepcraft machines among others and these probably look Good to you, as they do to many people, and your probably thinking "Well Sorotec sell one for under £3k" but you need to look closer and it will become apparant why they manage to offer them at the prices they do.?
It's things like only using one carriage per rail, only one rail with one carriage on the Z axis, etc. These are the kind of corners which are cut to save money but they are disasterous ommisions for any machine which is going to be used for cutting anything harder than MDF.
I build custom machines and I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not possible for a business to build a Strong machine with the correct components for cutting aluminium that will be reliable and accurate an make any money for less than £2k, and that's a small machine. So this should give you some clue to the kind of machine these Sub £2k machines are going to be because they are making money at that those prices.
My advise is to build your own, or raise the budget get intouch with me and I'll give you a fair price for machine that will do the job properly.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boyan Silyavski
DIY is best
I would go with a second hand CNC mini mill if i were you. With your experience especially.
Agree with the sentiment, but 400mm throat on a mini mill is optimistic.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doddy
Agree with the sentiment, but 400mm throat on a mini mill is optimistic.
Yes, me too Doddy and I nearly made the same suggestion as Boyan but you are lucky to find 300mm in the Y-axis of an average-sized mill so no chance on a mini mill. My Fadal VMC only as 400mm in the Y-axis.
The Fixed Gantry machine I'm building at the minute is the perfect size and design for cutting aluminum at 500 x 500 but it's way beyond Paul's budget.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
I thought as much. Being overly optimistic, but that's often the case when you dive into a new rabbit hole.
I'd rather not go down CNC'ing an RF45 or similar mill. I don't have the spare time and can do 90% of what I need to do Manually.
I think I may wait for a few more paychecks, increase the budget by a grand or so, read up, look at other options, and very possibly take up JAZZCNC's offer to build something that will have a fighting chance at cutting Aluminium properly.
In any case. Thanks all so much for the advice. Food for thought indeed.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weston Metalwork
I think I may wait for a few more paychecks, increase the budget by a grand or so, read up, look at other options, and very possibly take up JAZZCNC's offer to build something that will have a fighting chance at cutting Aluminium properly.
It's a wise choice to wait and save up, whether that be to DIY build something properly or have someone like me do it for you, because it's so easy to end up buying the wrong tool for the job which can't or easily and cheaply be upgraded. Also like so many times I've said this to people who have run out and bought a cheap machine you can't make a sow's ear into a silk purse no matter how much money you throw at it.!
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
It's a wise choice to wait and save up, whether that be to DIY build something properly or have someone like me do it for you, because it's so easy to end up buying the wrong tool for the job which can't or easily and cheaply be upgraded. Also like so many times I've said this to people who have run out and bought a cheap machine you can't make a sow's ear into a silk purse no matter how much money you throw at it.!
Love that expression!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Paul,
My wife, who is a qualified accountant, taught me all about the cost triangle. The three sides are MONEY, TIME and QUALITY. Once you fix one parameter the other two are inversely proportional. So if you have a tight budget be prepared to put some time into making a machine capable of the quality you want. A lot of that time will be researching the best design, probably a fixed gantry as Jazz suggested, and how you will construct it which depends on the facilities and skills you already have.
You won't be short of advice on this forum! Just keep asking the questions.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitwn
Paul,
My wife, who is a qualified accountant, taught me all about the cost triangle.The three sides are MONEY, TIME and QUALITY
Eh!?
My wife claims the cost triangle is an equilateral triangle. She agrees with MONEY, but the other two are chocolate and wine. This, she says, is the formula to keeping her as a wife. The only inversely-proportional coefficient is the Nag factor.
I think your wife needs retraining.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
The real triangle in CNC is
Working Area/Rigidity/Speed
And raising each one of them costs MONEY
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doddy
I think your wife needs retraining.
No, actually I think your wife and mine would get along very well!
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boyan Silyavski
The real triangle in CNC is
Working Area/Rigidity/Speed
And raising each one of them costs MONEY
Very true. And for a given price point working area and rigidity are inversely proportional, so aiming for a modest work area as you are and not expecting to build a machine rigid enough for cutting metal and large enough for handling sheet timber is your most significant decision.
Re: Hello and help!! Advice needed for an absolute beginner.
I see the size sequence like this, having in mind well made machines:
CNC mini MIll ===> 45x45 or 60x60cm fixed gantry===> 60x90cm==> 125x125cm===> 250x130cm===> 400x200cm
60x90cm machine can cover many areas of interest, even sobe basic signage could be made from wood and some normal jobs for separate letters. I think is the most versatile together with a fixed gantry 60x60cm
125x125cm can do a whole sheet moving the sheet so it's a great compromise between a pro machine and limited space. I dont like and i wouldn't recommend 100x200 machine if not for a specific purpose. A whole sheet in Spain is 122x244cm so ...
250x130 is mine machine and for normal jobs for me is perfect. But if for a business where there are more than 2 people involved, its limited. Not suitable for a dedicated signage machine
Best for do it all
400x200 is best for signage work
