MDF CNC Router plans / parts for home build beginners

I have started work on something which I believe will be a big help to the many people out there who want to get into building their own CNC mill / router.

I am putting together a 3D CAD design for a router which will be able to be manufactured out of MDF and cheap materials to give people a starting point into this hobby or should I say obsession which some of us have!

Why am I doing this? Let me explain...

I am a time served BREL (British Rail) machinist with plenty of manual and CNC machining experience and always wanted a milling machine at home (like quite a few of us) so that I could 'make things!'. When I initially thought about building something I started hunting around the internet and it all seemed quite daunting and very complicated but the more I read and the more questions that I asked (especially on this forum!) the more I started to realize that it should not be too difficult to put something together. I began designing my machine which took about 2 weeks based around the help and advice that I had been given then 3 months later I had a finished working router.

But, i had a slight advantage which made life a lot easier....

I could do the drawings, I am a machinist by trade, I had a friend that had a manual bridgeport milling machine which i used to make a lot of my parts and I bought myself a lathe to make the rest. Oh and JohnS helped me out a bit.....!

So I now want to come up with a complete design and full set of drawings so that it will be possible for more or less anyone to put together a basic cnc router with as little difficulty as possible. I will be making the first machines myself to prove the designs and will tweak them along the way to fine tune them before any drawings or designs are released. I want to be happy with them first!

Also I will be prepared to either manufacture myself or get components made that people are struggling to make, not all the components but just the parts which will be difficult to make at home. How much will these cost? Not as much as you think! I am not here to earn a living from this just give people a chance to get started.

The design so far consists of a 18mm and 25mm MDF frame construction, M12 leadscrews all round with M12 plastic leadscrew nuts, homemade linear guide system. Steppers to be decided but probably 23's. I have a bit more to do on the design and still yet to build a working model so if anyone has any 'sensible' suggestions then my ears are open, just remember though that the key to this is to keep the price down, we are not looking for accuracy just a starting point for people to get going in CNC machining.

sOUNDS GOOD STEVE,
WHAT ABOUT THE ELECTRONICS ? You need something better than the CaPs LoCk button on this freeking keyboard.
Drivers seem to be the stumbling block to cost.

The all in 1 Chinese boards are not for beginners, in fact I don't know who they are aimed at unless it's belling electric fires ?
Roy's System 4 is a nice system but can't be called cheap for a start up MDF unit

I hear what you are saying about the electronics and I do not know of a really cheap way of putting together a stepper controller system either. But if you do go with do go with one of Roy's system 4 boards then you would be looking at about £260 with a power supply which is not over expensive and this could be used with a bigger/better machine later on if needed.

Add on to this the cost of 3 steppers at £25-£35 depending on where you get them from and what spec you want and you are up and running with the electronics for around £350.

Would a newbie CNC builder think £350 is expensive for a stepper motor and controller solution? I don't know! Are there any newbie's out there to answer this one for us??

Nice thread, From my own point of view, yes £350 is a huge amount of money. Maybe my own personal situation is clouding things. There must be other folks out there who are finding finances tight but they may think differently about finding a few hundred pounds.

If I was to be totally honest with myself, I should walk away from CNC and take up stamp collecting. However I have never given up on a challenge yet and I do not intend to start now!! I have something like £50 a month to finance my build so its going to take a while!!

I will say I was close to wrapping my hand in and calling it a day but there are a couple of guys here who have helped me make a start and unless they request anonymity I shall name them later.

As to the electrics ... somewhere on this forum was a post by a guy who has a 3 axis machine running on a board he has built himself and sells it ready made or in kit form for around £60 ( http://www.planet-cnc.com ) I do not know enough about controllers etc to pass judgement here. So I do not know if it would be of use.

There are plenty of plans on the web many of them using MDF and skate bearings etc but then they end up using threaded rod which seems to lead to more anguish than pleasure.

If you can come up with something that is ' cheap ', can produce acceptable results and can enable guys to 'learn' then go for it.

I for one will be watching developments.

That Planet board is just the controller at 148 euros for the board and software, you still need drivers after that so basically the Planet board is virtually the same price as mach3.

Sorry John, I must have misunderstood the website, but he does state.

"CNC motion controller is a link between personal computer and drivers for stepper motors. It uses USB port which is available on all modern computers and laptops. This is a complete (software/hardware) solution and it does NOT require any additional software (Mach3 is NOT needed)".

I assumed it was a complete package.

I will shut up in areas I have no experience.

Don't apologise or you will never learn anything,
it is confusing for a beginner to get all the building blocks of what is required into position.
I'll post later tonight , busy at the moment the kettle is playing up and that Bastard Smoking Monkey has forgot all about the hobnobs.

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Sorry John, been a bit busy this week and not had chance to call in. I did pick up a packet of Hobnobs but ate them on the way to Anglesey yesterday. Don't worry though, Tesco's have plenty more...

Had a good chat with John today on the phone about this project and as usual he has come up with quite few interesting idea's, mainly to help keep the cost down and still produce a reasonable quality machine. I will be looking into these a bit more over the next week before I go any further with the design as sourcing the right components at the right price can sometimes be a pain in the arse, but I am on it...

Wobbly, I hear what you are saying regarding the cost of the drivers and we may be able to come up with another option to reduce the price. They may not have all features or be of the same quality as the ones which you can get from Zapp or DIYCNC but they may work well as a starting point. Not promising anything at this stage but watch this space...

Just off down to B & Q to do a bit of component sourcing.

Quick question - what size bed / work area do you think would be acceptable, I was thinking that a bed of 400 x 300 would be ok but I am open to suggestions. We don't want to go too big though as that could create more problems and start pushing the price up.

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Originally Posted by HiltonSteve

Wobbly, I hear what you are saying regarding the cost of the drivers and we may be able to come up with another option to reduce the price. They may not have all features or be of the same quality as the ones which you can get from Zapp or DIYCNC but they may work well as a starting point. Not promising anything at this stage but watch this space...

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I do not want to sound ungrateful because I am not, :redface: I have the plans for a 1200 X 800 Gantry style machine and a 4' X 2' surface table to use as a base. I am not aiming to follow the plans to the letter and I may have to revise my own strategy. So I am open to all ideas, I know I have to walk (hobble) before I can run.

I appear to have interest in a product I could put together and I cannot afford to ignore the chance of income. :wink:

You can be sure of one thing ... I shall be following this thread closely and will make use of any and all the developments I can.

How about making it modular in structure so it can be expanded say over the range, say, 400/600/800/1000 x 300/450/600/750. If it is rigid enough as a 1000x750 design it can be scaled as needed.

Hang on , am I missing something here ?
Steve was on about doing a MDF starter machine so we are talking about simple slides and build and now people are throwing 1200 x 800 into the plot.

so MDF, drawer slides, simple 24 volt drivers at 1/2 stepping onto M12 screwed rod running 1200 x 800 or similar size for three pounds seventeen and sixpence.

Oh nearly forgot, it must be capable of 6 metres per minute cutting.

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John, Just because I said I was looking at a 1200 X 800 machine does not mean I am dismissing Steve's efforts. MDF I have, Threaded rod I have, so I can see no reason why I cannot follow his plan and learn from those who know what they are talking about!! In the meantime I can gather together the items for the larger machine.

I am looking at this (CNC) as a means to an end and not just a hobby. For years I have been unable to contribute anything but my War Pension to the household but with the help of an organisation called Combat Stress I have started to become somebody again. I cannot and will not ignore the possibility of making my family some extra income however small

With that said, Steve, crack on!! Whatever knowledge and experience I can gain from your hard work will be put to good use.

I shall now retire to my Sanger and put on my Flak Jacket and tin lid!!

Making the design scalable may or may not be an option, depends what happens with the linear slides and what they end up being constructed from but I will know more next week.

As for the stepper controller, would there be any interest in a handheld controller that took away the need for a PC?

This is the initial description - The handheld controller will read from a USB memory stick and execute NC files with no need for a PC at all (however currently a PC is required to edit the pin config / steps per unit etc file which is then uploaded to the device using a memory stick) only a problem if you don't have a PC!!!!. It will also allow manual data entry via an inductive keypad and jogging of the machine. It uses a 3.5" colour TFT screen and is designed to plug into a 25 pin break out board. It uses a 100Mhz processor for stepper timing which should be more than enough.

I have already seen a prototype which works very well.

Estimated price - £200-£250

It will look something like the attached image.

Its a nice idea Steve, but if this is CNC for beginners then my 2p is that this complicates things - the device you show is still only a controller, you still need the stepper drivers, and I would argue most who are interested in building a CNC machine have access to a PC.

I think concentrating the electronics side on either sourcing a cheap driver set or, complementing the intent of the design, a cheap, easy to build, set of drivers would be better value. There is a wealth of knowledge about EMC and MACH3 and, esp in the case of EMC, there are a lot of cheap PC available to run the free software. Indeed, for real low cost, EMC2 (free) on a PC sourced from eBay has got to be a better option - there's a good selection of P3 and P4 systems which would run EMC available for <£100 and some as low as £30.

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Originally Posted by HiltonSteve

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]which is then uploaded to the device using a memory stick) only a problem if you don't have a PC!!!!.

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How the fook are you reading this then ?

Steve, I know it would involve more work by yourself and those who could assist you but why not offer both the Pendant and the EMC2 options. Let the folks choose.

I for one like the idea of the Pendant (I am thinking of the dust problem which would not be so much of a worry for those who will be machining metals etc.) It may not be something I can implement straight off but to have the option would be great.

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Originally Posted by irving2008

there's a good selection of P3 and P4 systems which would run EMC available for <£100 and some as low as £30.

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Agreed you only need to look around.

I just bought a stack of these for an average price of £38 and these were complete systems with TFT monitors and a licensed copy of XP

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170476010886

That's cheaper than a copy of XP. Nice thing was they were only 15 miles away so well worth the trip to collect and save shipping.

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Originally Posted by John S

Agreed you only need to look around.

I just bought a stack of these for an average price of £38 and these were complete systems with TFT monitors and a licensed copy of XP

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170476010886

That's cheaper than a copy of XP. Nice thing was they were only 15 miles away so well worth the trip to collect and save shipping.

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And with XP SP2 going out of support now and Windows7 SP1 due soon, there will be a lot of ex-corporate desktops coming available in the next year, perfect for EMC2/Linux or MACH3/XP...

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Originally Posted by HiltonSteve

I hear what you are saying about the electronics and I do not know of a really cheap way of putting together a stepper controller system either. But if you do go with do go with one of Roy's system 4 boards then you would be looking at about £260 with a power supply which is not over expensive and this could be used with a bigger/better machine later on if needed.

Would a newbie CNC builder think £350 is expensive for a stepper motor and controller solution? I don't know! Are there any newbie's out there to answer this one for us??

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Great thread, for me this is just what is needed, because a lot of people are enjoying this as their Hobby and are unlikely to have funds from a "bottomless pit" and wont be making "loads a money"

I finally took the plunge and went for a system 4 and also got the spindle board (but thats for later). I justified the cost to myself with the good reports I read on here, and the help thats available from Roy. Also this will be ok when I move on to bigger and better things much later

I've got mine up and running and cutting basic shapes out and drawing - But this is very time consuming because I'm still fascinated every time I see it running :)

I'm running with 10t timing pulleys and direct driving these through a short piece of rubber hose, just temp to get the feel of things and start to get to grips with cad- cam- code process

So my answer is yes its more expensive than the fleabay route, but the reputation for support and service that I will need when I reach the "brick wall" is by far is the best route for me :)

Cheers Shaun

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I finally took the plunge and went for a system 4 and also got the spindle board (but thats for later). I justified the cost to myself with the good reports I read on here, and the help thats available from Roy. Also this will be OK when I move on to bigger and better things much later

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I would agree that getting good drivers to start with is a good plan, and defiantly don't get bogged down with building some for a first machine (been there tried that). There is too much to do and just having smoother steeper drives really transformed my x-y table.
I got the 4.2amp with micro stepping from Gary(£115 for 3 i think) There also optically isolated so I didn't bother with a BOB. cut one plug of a printer lead and hard wired it :whistling:

Like Shaun I justified the cost as A; they can be used on the next machine or B; used on more than one if the same motors and settings are used.

Quick update.....

Been hunting around for a cheap off the shelf option for linear slides and to be honest I am struggling, everything I have found comes at a cost which I think for what we are trying to achieve is too expensive. But I have another plan, ordered today some engineering plastic from a company I deal with and I am going to try and make a very simple but hopefully very cheap alternative. Will let you know how I get on when I have tried it, I know it will work but not sure how well yet...

Some of you may find my next bit of news interesting...

A stepper controller at the right price...! I have decided to go with 17 size steppers for this project now because it reduces the costs all round and takes a big chunk out of the total build cost, using 17 size steppers also means we do not need powerful drivers and I think that I have come up with just the thing. See details below...

Oh, and they are made in the UK!

Motor Outputs

• 3 x Allegro A4983 Microstepping Stepper motor controller (fixed at 1.5 amps 8th stepping)

Some features of the driver IC's

• Intelligent chopping control that automatically selects the correct current decay mode (fast decay or slow decay)
• Over-temperature thermal shutdown, under-voltage lockout, and crossover-current protection

Outputs

• 1 x 12vdc output for laser / external relay or contractor rated at max 500ma.
• 2 x 6a relays rated for 230vac.

Connections

• It requires a PSU minimum 4 amp 2.5mm laptop type connector. (an old laptop power supply will be suitable)
• 1 x male DB25 connector (for connection to parallel port, cable not supplied)
• 1 x female DB9 connector (to breakout unused parallel port connections, for limits etc)
• 1 x 6 way Phoenix screw clamp connector (for E-Stop input, and outputs)
• 3 x 4 way Phoenix screw less connector ( for X, Y & Z axis motor connections)

Enclosure

The system is enclosed within an all Aluminium enclosure for maximum heat dissipation and RF shielding. In the top of the enclosure is a 12vdc fan to provide active cooling of the driver IC's
Dimensions Height, Width, Depth = 55mm x 100mm x 120mm

Cost will be around £120-£130 so hopefully this will be of more interest to the people on a tight budget.

Thats going to limit you to motors with around 1Nm of torque, which motors did you have in mind? there are some NEMA23 motors that will fit the bill at 1.4A capability.

I dont know what you plan with the slides, but you need to focus on keeping the friction low if you are using small motors..

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Originally Posted by irving2008

Thats going to limit you to motors with around 1Nm of torque, which motors did you have in mind? there are some NEMA23 motors that will fit the bill at 1.4A capability.

I dont know what you plan with the slides, but you need to focus on keeping the friction low if you are using small motors..

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I hear what you are saying about the linear slides which is why I want to try a few different idea's using the engineering plastic for the linear bearings and silver steel as guide rails, lets just see how I get on!

The reason for using the controller together with 17Nm motors is because I have seen it working on a small machine with very good results, have a look at the image below.

If anyone is interested then I know where you can buy these machines fully assembled and ready to go, cost price £450. All you will need is a stepper controller as per the one I have listed above and you will be away. They are also made in the UK.

Before you ask I do not have any technical info on the machines but if anyone is interested then PM me and I will pass your details on.

Is that one of the Marchant Dice ones?

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Originally Posted by irving2008

Is that one of the Marchant Dice ones?

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No!

Designed and made in Derby, and not by me or John before you ask!

I'd like to say that I think this idea is brilliant and just what I needed.

I was just about to start a new thread about a newbie being in a difficult position - especially one with practically no machining experience, no previous knowledge of G-code or CNC, no machine-filled workshop and very little money to spend etc.. I include the contents here so you can see where I'm coming from.

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"I've designed a machine and think it should do what I want (machining hard-wood). It's a moving gantry type and will have a working area of X=610mm Y=900mm Z=200mm.

I don't have a workshop so I either have to pay people to make the parts for me or buy a ready-made machine or a kit.

The prices of new ready-mades are high (money is another problem of course) and none that I've seen have the Z-axis travel that I need. In short, I need a machine to make my machine.

I'd welcome any suggestions about this as I'm sure others have this problem. Would anyone want to make parts for me, does anyone have a machine for sale or know where I can get one (or a kit) at a reasonable cost?"

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I've reached pensionable age without a half-decent pension so I'm doing this because I need to earn money. I plan to make wood items and (hopefully) sell them at craft fairs around the Berwick upon Tweed area where I now live. (I'm from Nottingham so I know many of the places mentioned in posts).

The machine I want to build will eventually have to make long parts and this is why I want a large size although I could start with one smaller and then, maybe, scale it up.

My thoughts are that 1 Nm motors will be too small (for my sized machine) but I accept that using larger size 3Nm will increase the cost.

I was also thinking of using Roys drivers and BOB because they seem to be reliable and the last thing I want as a newbie is an unreliable driver problem to sort out. There are too many problems for a novice like me and I need to reduce the potential for problems. Personally I would want a driver system that would control the larger 3Nm motors.

In answer to HiltonSteve's question, I think £350 is a reasonable price to pay for something (electronics) that will probably work and not give problems but I know other people might find that price too high.

Like Wobblybootie I want something I can afford and that works.

I'm not sure about using threaded-rod for leadscrews though as I think this would produce too many accuracy problems.

I hope me throwing my 3pennorth in helps. If you want to ask anything please do. I'm filling up with enthusiasm and hope again - after getting despondent about all the complexities of this project.

I use Ubuntu GNU-Linux and also EMC2 (both free of cost) and it seems to work very well in simulation mode. I use QCAD and recommend this as a cheap yet execellent 2D package (the book that came with it was essential for a novice like me). I don't use MSWindows so any expensive Windows-only software is out.

It's good when someone with experience offers his knowledge and help to people like me with very little experience but a definite need and a lot of enthusiasm - and I appreciate this.


Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I'm normally a bit more logical than this but it is a long, exciting thread - and I think it's got wings.

Regards,


Keith.

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Originally Posted by HiltonSteve

Been hunting around for a cheap off the shelf option for linear slides and to be honest I am struggling

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Have you looked at the DryLin slides from RS? Only vaguely grot, low profile, easy to mount and cheap as chips.

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Originally Posted by Robin Hewitt

Have you looked at the DryLin slides from RS? Only vaguely grot, low profile, easy to mount and cheap as chips.

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Yes Robin, I have been looking at these and I have a few samples from the IGUS man who called in a few weeks back. What I can't work out is which will be most suitable though as when I start guessing at the loads that they will be needing to take then it push's me towards the heavier ones which start to get expensive. Go to the IGUS website and there is a product selector there, have a play and see what results you get.

Loads wont be that high. more critical is friction. By way of example, using four 10mm W-series (2 x WS-10,500, 2 x WJ200UM-01-10, 2 x WJ200UM-01-10 LL) spaced 100mm apart on 500mm long rails 250mm apart for a gantry where the drive is central and the cutting force approx 50mm above the bearings. A 15Kg gantry accelerating at 10m/s^2 will need 200N of force to overcome friction- thats about a third of what you'll get from a 1Nm motor on a 12x3mm screw, and will be ok on wear for 15years continuous running (at a max speed of 900mm/min)!

Thats £80 approx for rails and carriages (RS prices)

I think the IGUS 'N' series may come out a little cheaper but I am not sure how mounting the gantry to them would work. The holes / clearance do not appear that big (well, I know what I mean)

Okay, hows about put the gantry on rollers? A pair of widely spaced ball bearings at either end riunning on a steel bar glued to the base, plus one sprung roller between each pair to hold it down.

To hold it square, a similar arrangement, turned through 90 degrees and close to the screw.

Wouldn't work so good for the Y but it fixes the big axis and gets your overall cost down.

You'd need some powerful springs which would want to bend the MDF, but an iron inclusion would fix that. Goodbye friction :smile:

OK - this is from the perspective of someone who hasn't built anything, but I have read loads. When I had some time to look at my potential router, I looked up and down the cost scale of every option I could find for the slides. The cheapest of all was drawer slides, but clearly not good enough.

It seems to me that you are on the path to re-invent the skate bearing on angle solution. You can see them all over the place. Here is just one example, albeit a crude one with the skate carriages riding on round rails - er pipes actually. Most examples ride on inverted angle.

With a set of 8 bearings at a fiver or less, this is pretty cheap and low friction.

Skate bearings have to be the best all round DIY solution for me, low cost, the effectiveness of them, 8mm shaft.....the tubing is a little harder to find (for free) I'm up to 38 skate bearings now with 4 more shortly on the drive reduction

Another thing that has worked well for me is the 12mm threaded rod across the table as this way only needs sides making - crude but easy to adjust and mount things from etc

Cheers Shaun

Right, I have been listening to what everyone is saying and after looking at the IGUS slides again I have decided to go with the Drylin N 27mm version, this is mainly for ease of assembly and they should be more than up to the job. At RS prices it will cost around the £80 mark for everything which is 12 carriages and 2m of rail, these are at RS prices so I should be able to get it cheaper after I speak to my IGUS man in the morning. This may seem expensive to some but you have to bear in mind the lack of skill and tools that will be required to get your linear rails sorted which are a very important component.

I know the skate bearing idea will work out cheaper but for a first time builder I am not so sure that it is the way to go, using the igus drylin N will make assembly so much easier and I have got a cunning plan as to how it will fit in with the design and a simple way to mount it...

Also been thinking about the leadscrews and may go for M12 trapezoidal (depending on the cost) with some simple anti-backlash plastic nuts. May cost a little more than standard M12 threaded bar but I think that the benefits will outweigh the cost.

17 size steppers should come in at around £10-£12 each so total build cost is not looking too bad.

MDF will either be 18mm or 25mm, not sure yet until I get something drawn up and see what fits best but hoping that 18mm will be good enough.

Table size looks like it will end up at 500mm x 300mm with 2 rails on the X and Y axis as this way all the linear rail will be used without any waste, the remaining 400mm can be cut in half and used for the Z.

I think at this stage I need to get the design done and get something made to see how it performs, enough talking about it, lets get something put together and see what happens. Yes there will be issues but we have to make a machine to find them, some of the issues will have to be acceptable for a low cost machine but I want to get it as good and as simple as possible for a reasonable build cost.

Drawing tonight/tomorrow so will get the designs up on here when I have something to show you all.

Are you proposing fixed gantry/moving table or a moving gantry? If the expected workpiece is relatively lightweight (small amount of MDF, balsa wood, PCBs, etc.) I'd suggest a moving table design gives more bang for the buck so to speak. A moving gantry is going to be quite a lot heavier, harder to make rigid and will limit the performance with a small motor.

I concur on the 12x3 trapezoidal. Its not so expensive and even without an antibacklash nut will give a better result than M12 rod.

What about the spindle? Dremmel or something meatier?

Oh and on the stepper drivers, came across these... no idea how good or what chip, was thinking about getting one to find out but at £8.99/channel.... They also do a cheap (£30) 27v/13A PSU

I was thinking of going for a moving table as like you say it will give more bang for buck and the design should end up simpler which is what we are aiming for.

Spindle - will probably go with a dremel to start with as I happen to have a couple kicking around and they should suit what we will be cutting, there are plenty of dremel's on ebay and also copies for not a lot of money so it makes sense to go down that road. I will design it with the option to put something meatier on there but I really don't think it will be suitable for an entry level type machine but then again you never know!

Just checked out those stepper drivers and they don't look too bad, especially for £8.99. Has anyone ever had a go with one of these before?

Had a quick look, can't see how to adjust motor amperage, resistors ? and they are probably unipolar for that money.
Worth sending for a couple of handfuls though just to play with.

Thinking about the trapezoidal again, just changed my mind and now going for M10 x 2mm. A little bit cheaper and no micro-stepping drivers needed.

1 stepper motor rev = 200 steps @ 2mm pitch means 1 step = 0.01mm - I know you can state whatever steps per unit you want to in mach3 but this way it will keep it simpler for the beginners...

Starting to talk in numbers and equations like Irving now!

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Originally Posted by John S

Had a quick look, can't see how to adjust motor amperage, resistors ? and they are probably unipolar for that money.
Worth sending for a couple of handfuls though just to play with.

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Bi-polar John, just found some on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stepper-Motor-...item3f0012d4b4

Virtual village UK - rho
From Hong Kong

He's me thinking it was the village down the road ?
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