Motion Control drivers and motors

I've been converting a Super X1 micro mill in the UK to CNC and have run into a few problems.

I'm using Motion Control Stepper Motors and Drivers and Mach3 to run them but am not getting smooth running of the motors at all.

I have a 40V 10A PSU and the Motors are wired as Bipolar Parallel to the Drivers.

Motors being used http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....TH76-2808B.pdf

Drivers being used
http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com...0datasheet.pdf

Driver is currently set as 2 Microsteps.

This is how it moves and sounds and although I'm not an expert at all that metal grinding doesn't sound right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgFNBwLoCk

Driver is set to 4.2A and 2 Microstep.
Mach3 is set as 80 Step per mm.
Velocity and Acceleration are set as 2500.

Sounds ghastly, a coil wired back to front perhaps?

Steppers do howl a bit, sounds something like this...

http://www.robinhewitt.net/mill.wmv

What wire are you using on the motors, also have you made sure you wired them correctly ?

The motors came with long enough wires to reach the drivers directly so used them itself.

They are wired as per the Motion Control wiring diagram.

Blue+Red to A+
Blue/White + Red/White to A-
Green+Black to B+
Green/White + Black/White to B-

Is there a way I can figure out if the wiring is indeed correct or not ?

Anything I should try?

This is how the motor looks spinning at 500 Velocity and Acceleration.

Note its still jerking and not moving smoothly even at such a slow speed. Also there are brief moments when it seems like the table just glides smooth but then the grinding returns.

I held it in my hand for a bit and that I've put it on the table to show how noisy it is.

http://www.youtube.com/v/4gkLBOmZqJU

Wiring a Motion Control Stepper to a Motion Control Driver to get smooth rotations.

Can someone please tell me how can I get a smooth running motor. What settings do I need and how will the wiring be for bipolar parallel.

I have a 40V 10A PSU and the Motors are wired as Bipolar Parallel to the Drivers.

Motors being used http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....TH76-2808B.pdf

Drivers being used
http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com...0datasheet.pdf

Driver is currently set as 2 Microsteps.

They are wired as per the Motion Control wiring diagram.

Blue+Red to A+
Blue/White + Red/White to A-
Green+Black to B+
Green/White + Black/White to B-

But is this correct because someone else said that I have it wrong.

Currently the motor is running jerky like http://www.youtube.com/v/4gkLBOmZqJU

Do I need to change any of the jumper settings inside? Because at the moment its left as they arrived.

The DIP switches are set as
SW1 SW2 SW3 SW4 SW5 SW6 SW7 SW8 -> Off Off Off Off Off On On On

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

Anything I should try?

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The wiring diagram for the motor is missing information. The colour coding shows A and A again rather than A and A'. About as useful as a chocolate teapot.

If the table is in sequence A,A',B,B' etc and the coils are shown the right way round then you are wired cackamamie.

I suggest you halve the current then disconnect one coil on either side.

If it vibrates forwards/backwards you're only driving one side. If it purrs around you had one or more of the disconnected coils in backwards.

When you have it purring, reconnect the other two coils by trial and error so it still purrs :D

Aiming for Parallel and don't know what the wiring should be. So any help with be nice here.

Gary from Motion told me that the SW4 was meant only for dropping current down to half after a phase but I'm so lost now I'll try anything.

If I'm aiming for a parallel connection what should the wire colours connected to the driver look like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kip

Try a DMM and then wire them one way or the other...not both!

Attached is a wiring diagram I sent someone else here.....hth

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Isn't this the Series connection? What I want is a parellel connection so how will that look like?

Bruce, have a look at this mate:

http://www.mycncuk.com/pdf/wiring.pdf

That should help you out with the wiring of the bob, check you'v got all that right and then tonight ill give this a bit more time and work out what you need to do.

Lee

Bruce, check your wiring to this:

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/photop...eppermotor.jpg

I've wired this exactly like the diagram. I'm going for a parallel connection so I've done.

Blue+Red to A+
Blue/White + Red/White to A-
Green+Black to B+
Green/White + Black/White to B-

But someone else told me that it should be as

Blue+Red to A-
Blue/White + Red/White to A+
Green+Black to B-
Green/White + Black/White to B+

I've tried that too and nothing. No improvement.

This is happening on all 3 axises. I cannot get the motors to rotate smoothly, they are rotating in jerks.

Wiring looks fine, and the current is set to 4.2 A so that should be ok also.
The problem that you are seeing is a typical noise or low signal problem, or possibly both.
These are the points you need to address:

1) Use Shielded cable for all signal cables
2) Shield the motor phase cables.
3) keep signal and power / phase cables apart, and if they need to cross, they should cross perpendicular.


Also check the signals from the pc, the voltage should be about 5V, it it is low the driver can miss pulses and you can get the stuttering you are seeing.

I just had an email from Bruce, and it apears that his clock pulse is about 3.3V, and he is using a laptop.
This is most definately the problems, and is actually quite common when a laptop is used.
The solution would be to use either another laptop with higher voltage outputs, or a desktop PC with a parallel port.

Bruce,
Try this and give us your results.

Thanks

Gary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

Aiming for Parallel and don't know what the wiring should be. So any help with be nice here.

Gary from Motion told me that the SW4 was meant only for dropping current down to half after a phase but I'm so lost now I'll try anything.

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OK going to try and get my hand on a 'full' PC and see how things go.

Does anyone know of a supplier for a buffered Breakout Board similar to the ones CNC4PC do but in the UK? Hopefully that will give me a full 5V signal and I can use my laptops again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gary

I just had an email from Bruce, and it apears that his clock pulse is about 3.3V, and he is using a laptop.
This is most definately the problems, and is actually quite common when a laptop is used.
The solution would be to use either another laptop with higher voltage outputs, or a desktop PC with a parallel port.

Bruce,
Try this and give us your results.

Thanks

Gary

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What breakout board is he using? The MDS drivers are optisolated so dont really need a sophisticated BOB and are pretty immune to cross-over noise on the signal lines due to the low impedance 'on' drive. Unless he has a very long cable from PC to BOB or the BOB is a old design with TTL rather than CMOS logic I'd be suprised that the use of a laptop was an issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

OK going to try and get my hand on a 'full' PC and see how things go.

Does anyone know of a supplier for a buffered Breakout Board similar to the ones CNC4PC do but in the UK? Hopefully that will give me a full 5V signal and I can use my laptops again.

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Bruce - how are your drivers wired to the PC? The MDS series are opto-isolated. Unless there is some strange wiring issue a higher output voltage wont make any difference as they are active low drive.

Model Engineers Digital Workshop have a couple of the CNC4PC cards in stock here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irving2008

Bruce - how are your drivers wired to the PC? The MDS series are opto-isolated. Unless there is some strange wiring issue a higher output voltage wont make any difference as they are active low drive.

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I'm going to give Gary the benefit of the doubt here because he obviously knows his products better than I. So I've bought the only CNC4PC C1G breakboard board that was in stock. Hopefully this will solve my problem. If not then I'm back to the drawing board. Having said that the MSD542 manual does says that its looking for 4-5V for Active High and 0-0.5V for Active Low and since my laptop is giving 3.33V it may not be enought to kick the driver properly

Maybe you should strip everything back and set one up at a time and see if you can find the problem that way, i noticed kip said somthing about your SW's being set wrong on the other post.

I'v just merged this thread with the other one you started Bruce as they see to be about the same thing, be nice to see a new thread on the conversion of your mill after you hash these issues out.

Lee

I'll be doing a full write up of my entire set-up once things start working fine because I'm sure that are many like me who are complete novices and everything out there assumes you know something of CNC, plus there are very few UK only people who have a full write-up.

I was a bit too over confident and set-up everything into the box. If with the new BOB things don't start to work well then I'll have no other option but to start again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

I was a bit too over confident and set-up everything into the box. If with the new BOB things don't start to work well then I'll have no other option but to start again.

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Gary has already suggested its an issue with low power laptops didnt he?

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gary

I just had an email from Bruce, and it apears that his clock pulse is about 3.3V, and he is using a laptop.

This is most definately the problems, and is actually quite common when a laptop is used.

The solution would be to use either another laptop with higher voltage outputs, or a desktop PC with a parallel port.

Bruce,

Try this and give us your results.
Thanks
Gary

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Mot sure about the Bob, but The measured voltage was 3.3V, which is on the border line of working for the optos.
I have found that most support calls that end with the signal voltages being too low were on laptops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irving2008

What breakout board is he using? The MDS drivers are optisolated so dont really need a sophisticated BOB and are pretty immune to cross-over noise on the signal lines due to the low impedance 'on' drive. Unless he has a very long cable from PC to BOB or the BOB is a old design with TTL rather than CMOS logic I'd be suprised that the use of a laptop was an issue.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gary

Mot sure about the Bob, but The measured voltage was 3.3V, which is on the border line of working for the optos.
I have found that most support calls that end with the signal voltages being too low were on laptops.

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Don't say that after I've just spent £33 on a BOB! Not to mention having already spent £10 for the previous BOB which won't be used.

I'll update this thread the moment I find something else worth reporting.

Anyone else here using a CNC Fusion kit? I've had alignment issues with the Z axis in particular. Is it right that the entire weight of the Z axis is taken by the collar supplied in your kit? Also why is there so little space made around the LoveJoys? The Orange sticker peeled out on a couple - just shows how close they are to the walls.

Bruce, post your questions about the f-kit as a new one so people notice it other wise it could go un noticed mate. I'v also sent you a PM about the BOB you no longer will be using.

When we initially talked i presumed you were using our Bob, and this is a straight through bob with no components but two connectors.
What bob are you using?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

Don't say that after I've just spent £33 on a BOB! Not to mention having already spent £10 for the previous BOB which won't be used.

I'll update this thread the moment I find something else worth reporting.

Anyone else here using a CNC Fusion kit? I've had alignment issues with the Z axis in particular. Is it right that the entire weight of the Z axis is taken by the collar supplied in your kit? Also why is there so little space made around the LoveJoys? The Orange sticker peeled out on a couple - just shows how close they are to the walls.

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I am using a similar BOB but was half the price and made by a CNC user, the board is milled on a CNC machine itself and comes with 4 PCB stand-offs.

http://www.cncdoctor.co.uk/ParallelP...ard(P.004).pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

I am using a similar BOB but was half the price and made by a CNC user, the board is milled on a CNC machine itself and comes with 4 PCB stand-offs.

http://www.cncdoctor.co.uk/ParallelP...ard(P.004).pdf

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Bruce. That BOB MUST be used driving the opto's in ACTIVE LOW configuration. Its half the price because it has no active drive components, its just a connector. The PC on its own will not have enough output drive to drive the optos in active high mode. The signals on the MDSxxx are labeled thus Step+, Step- and Dir+, Dir- The - connections need to go to your driving signals and the + connections to a source of +3.3 or +5v power. This can be got off a USB connector, off a spare disc power connector inside the PC or via a cheap 5v regulated wall-wart. See pic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

I am using a similar BOB but was half the price and made by a CNC user, the board is milled on a CNC machine itself and comes with 4 PCB stand-offs.

http://www.cncdoctor.co.uk/ParallelP...ard(P.004).pdf

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Bruce. That BOB MUST be used driving the opto's in ACTIVE LOW configuration. It will not have enough output drive to drive the optos in active high mode. The signals on the MDSxxx are labeled thus Step+, Step- and Dir+, Dir- The - connectoins neednto go to your driving signals and the + connections to a source of +3.3 or +5v power. This can be got off a USB connector, off a spare disc power connector inside the PC or via a cheap 5v regulated wall-wart.

So the ACTIVE LOW configuration needs to be done in Mach3 for the Motor Outputs correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

So the ACTIVE LOW configuration needs to be done in Mach3 for the Motor Outputs correct?

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Yes you will need to tell the software which way up the signal is... The MDSxxx series of drivers recognise the rising edge of the signal so the PC must pulse the output LOW to cause the required motion.

Do I need to change anything in the Driver i.e. Jumpers or anything or can I leave them as default?

No the drive does not need to be changed for sinking inputs.

This seems like an easy solution. I just hope that I can cancel the order on that BOB I just bought if this works.

Oh my half price comment was related to the BOB I bought as compared to that sold by Motion Control - but its not as nice looking as the MC one.

It does the same as the one we do, so £10 was a good deal.
We are designing a new motherboard that lets you plug up to four MSD542/556 directly into the board and on the other side it will have the connectors for the motors and a 25 way connector for the parallel port or smooth stepper.
This will eliminate the wiring from the bob to the drivers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bruce_miranda

This seems like an easy solution. I just hope that I can cancel the order on that BOB I just bought if this works.

Oh my half price comment was related to the BOB I bought as compared to that sold by Motion Control - but its not as nice looking as the MC one.

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I have GOOD news to report, my motors are now spinning very well. I used the USB to supply 5V to the drivers and everything suddenly started to work.
Thanks a lot irving2008.

Oh in the meanwhile I also rebuilt my laptop and then reconfigured things using these instructions here and everything works quite well. http://pminmo.com/PMinMOwiki/index.php5?title=Laptops

I have now an issue where if I jog the axis suddenly at no certain point the motors will stall but if I release the key and jog again it continues just fine. Jogging slower the motors stick less often but still stick about once per end to end travel. How do I resolve that issue.

At what speed are they stalling?
Is it happening between a specific speed range?

They seem to stalling at all speeds and even without any load connected i.e. motors not connected to machine. Also it happens only when I continously jog from one end to another.