Ebay Chinese Routers (CNC3040) - anyone purchased one of these machines recently?

We are considering purchasing one of these chinese routers (CNC3040 K4) but are kinda wary about the quality and reliability of the units. This isnt helped by the obvious manipulation of ebays feedback system to ensure these sellers are showing 99% positive feedback by selling thousands of nail kits for 99p etc.

Have searched around but cannot find much information.

Would appreciate if anyone with knowledge of these units could give us some feedback about how the unit has performed and the buying experience. :confused:

I would also be interested in someone who has actually bought one and what they got.

The adverts are way out of context, some say high speed water cooled spindle but show brushed motors, some say inverters but show a set of brushes.
I'm quite prepared to buy one and have to mess with it like a new controller instead of something that doesn't seem to have any support or spares but I'd like to know just what is liable to drop thru the door.

a link to the router would help a lot
James

It depends what you want to make with the machine. They don't look strong (unsupported rails etc), but if you just want it for PCBs, engraving or other light work it will be acceptable. If it actually comes with a water cooled spindle and VFD then it's a good deal.

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Originally Posted by luke11cnc

a link to the router would help a lot

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Try searching 'CNC3040' on eBay.

Hi James,

this is the particular unit that we are interested in

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UPDATED-NE...item35b5f10c3e

but information on a buyers experience with any similar unit would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by John S

I would also be interested in someone who has actually bought one and what they got.

The adverts are way out of context, some say high speed water cooled spindle but show brushed motors, some say inverters but show a set of brushes.
I'm quite prepared to buy one and have to mess with it like a new controller instead of something that doesn't seem to have any support or spares but I'd like to know just what is liable to drop thru the door.

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I have the 3040 and Im happy with it, it has no problems with Al. Its a brushed motor and its a nice little machine for the price. I'll see if I have any vids of it in action.

Thanks Philly, does it come with any software?

£262 delivery from Portsmouth ?

Sod it I'd ask them if I can't collect or report them to ebay for excessive postal charges.

This one is on trapezoidal screws, the one I was looking at was on ball screws.

My guess is that they are not actually in Portsmouth and thats why the postage is so high. I was looking at one so let me know if they are actually in Portsmouth and youre able to collect.

I have a 6040 which is similar, just a little larger. It was well packed and arrived without damage unlike some others I've read about. All the machines look the same and are (probably) made by the same people and just sold by resellers on eBay so packing will vary. The only problem I had with mine was a dead driver board for the X axis. Replacements are quite cheap until you add shipping $15 for the board and $45 to ship! I've decided to change mine over to a Gecko G540 controller as I have one spare.
As far as shipping goes, even though they quote shipping from a local point (Portsmouth), it will actually be shipped from China. I know this is against eBay rules but despite having reported a similar offer here in Australia, eBay seem reluctant or uninterested in doing anything about it.

I ordered a spindle that came from 'Portsmouth' and I to was suspicious. But it did. I had it too quick to come from China. I think that they are initially shipped to a warehouse and then they do not go through customs again so no vat check. As for the high postage they probably are recovering their initial cost to bring them in to this country. I suspect that they may claim a very low value on initial import, pay a token tax and this too will have to be recovered. So technically ebay will not be interested and we get cheap goods.

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Originally Posted by motoxy

I ordered a spindle that came from 'Portsmouth' and I to was suspicious. But it did. I had it too quick to come from China. I think that they are initially shipped to a warehouse and then they do not go through customs again so no vat check. As for the high postage they probably are recovering their initial cost to bring them in to this country. I suspect that they may claim a very low value on initial import, pay a token tax and this too will have to be recovered. So technically ebay will not be interested and we get cheap goods.

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My thanks to everyone who has responded, its very much appreciated!! :smile:

As we have limited funding, im trying to ensure that we make the correct decision about this purchase and your input has been valuable. I have also watched quite a few videos on youtube about the unit which reassures me that this machine is viable for what we want to do with it.

We will probaly be placing the order either Mon or Tues and will let you know how it pans out! Just have to decide which seller to purchase through.

The only downside is that after browsing this forum and "meeting" the members im finding it so difficult to resist the temptation to have a go at building a machine myself, but time constraints and lack of facilites combined with poor health means that its a non runner for now at least. grrr :cry:

That particular seller 'lovehappyshopping' isn't in the UK (but actually Hong kong from recollection)...not sure how they manage tat on Ebay, but duping folks into thinking they're UK based is a bit naughty.

Re importing...I imported a very small CNC machine from Taiwan http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sable-2015...item2c627f9754 - though he wasn't the chap I bought it from...it certainly seems with CNC machines asian sellers come & go! I almost bouyght from this seller - http://cncdiy.org/ check out that middle of tha page "we are closed unti mid july 2011" !!!!!, then read the unhappy buyers on his forum - http://cncdiy.forumr.biz/f1-cncdiy-s-machines top post!).

Fortunately, everything went well with my purchase, (it was extremely well packaged), but this is the exception.....it seems just about every CNC buyer importing from asia has a tale of woe (damage or bits not working) ...if you enter into the deal with that in mind, you'll probably be happy with what you get for yer dosh.

Don't forget that you'll automatically get slapped for import duty & VAT by the importing courier ...which can add a chunk to the price you might have envisioned!

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Originally Posted by HankMcSpank

That particular seller 'lovehappyshopping' isn't in the UK (but a Hong kong from recollection)...not sure how they manage this but duping folks into thinking they're UK based is a bit naughty.

Re importing...I imported a very small CNC machine from Taiwan http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sable-2015...item2c627f9754 - though he wasn't the chap I bought it from). Fortunately, everything went well, (it was extremely well packaged), but this is the exception.....it seems just about every CNC buyer from china has a tale of woe (damage or bits not working) ...if you enter into the deal with that in mind, you'll probably be happy with what you get for yoer dosh.

Don't forget that you'll automatically get slapped for import duty & VAT by the importing courier ...which can add a chunk to the price you might have envisioned!

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Thanks Hank!

Unfortunatley its a risk i cannot eliminate if i want to purchase within budget and having imported some electronics from the states am aware of the hidden costs due to import taxes etc etc. ho humm

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Originally Posted by camhguh

I have also watched quite a few videos on youtube about the unit which reassures me that this machine is viable for what we want to do with it.

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Can I just ask what do you intend to do with it.?

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Can I just ask what do you intend to do with it.?

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Hi Jazzcnc

We need to be able to machine acrylic panels (around 5mm thick)

Thicker nylon block (between 10 -20 mm)

Possibly also light aluminium

Doing some development work for a project which means constant changes, updates, redesigns etc. :redface:

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Originally Posted by camhguh

Hi Jazzcnc

We need to be able to machine acrylic panels (around 5mm thick)

Thicker nylon block (between 10 -20 mm)

Possibly also light aluminium

Doing some development work for a project which means constant changes, updates, redesigns etc. :redface:

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Ok I had a feeling you where going to say that.!!. . . . .Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying this to put the machine down or saying it can't cut plastics. . .BUT. . It won't do it easily or produce high quality finish.??

This is something I've pointed out before about these machines.!!. . . . Plastics usually need high feed rates and most of these machines will top out around 2500-3000mm/min if that.?

Even small cutters will want to be running around or above the machines Max capabilty if you want a good finish without melting or pulling. Larger diameter cutters work better because they clear chips better reducing heat therefore melting and tend to give a nicer finish but they need higher feed rates to maintain correct chipload which these machines cant possibly reach or handle.

There are so many parameters that affect quality of cut and finish in all materials, DOC, feed, spindle rpm, and machine ridgidty but unfortunatly with cutting plastics they tend or need to be high.!!. . . . I fear this machine won't be able to handle the speeds/feeds required to cut plastics and give a good quality finish. Esp in materials like acrylic that are sensitive and critical on feed n speeds.??

So my point is YES it will obviously cut plastics but not as well as you might expect and the stress on the machine regards feeds will be high, pritty much flatout all the time, this will have big affect on it's life span which I fear will be short.!!

Don't know if your used to machining plastics or not but go have read and you'll see the speeds/feeds are quite high.

Heres one to look at, it's from over the pond so imperial sized tooling but it all translates and apply's over here. . .
http://www.plasticsmag.com/routing.a...eb-07&aid=4539

Thanks for the detailed critique Jazz!

And no, i havn't machined anything in forty odd years and certainly not plastics which weren't around then (that i remeber anyway)

However this presents me a with quandry because we would want our prototype finish has to be very good indeed to impress backers and obtain further funding.

We could change many of the parts to aluminium, but would we achieve a better finish using these machines?

I had a look at a similar machine on www.mydiycnc.com but the owner Stephen hasnt replied to my queries and i cannot access his site this morning to double check parameters. There were options to have the machine fitted with different spindle drives (i think). One i believe was a high speed water cooled unit that should do the trick (perhaps! LOL)

Back to the drawing board!

There are ways to get the finish, block out the part and leave 0.5mm on for final cut then clean up all the chips and do a final full depth pass to remove the 0.5mm.

I used to do this on a large CNC mill than has speed and feed limitations and got good surface finish. Personally I have found that the slower you cut plastic the better the finish because at high speed it just wants to melt.

Can you afford to go up to a larger machine like a 6040, these have ball screws and a choice of high speed spindle.

I wish we had the resources John but the machining facility budget (lol) is stretched as it is and we will probaly cop for import tax's, vat and whatever else the government can screw out of us. Off course the router is just one item in a long list of things that we have had to buy or are planning to buy to complete the project. We are not VAT registered of course so cannot reclaim that tax.

Mulling it over, it looks like we will have to go with that particular machine and follow your guidelins re getting the best finish we can. Should be ok i think, providing the machine arrives undamaged with the electronics in working order!

I got a CNC3040 from eBay member zlx108108108

It came in about 2 weeks, but it was not packed well enough and a couple of bits were damaged.

The seller has actually been helpful and has good communication, they just should have packed it better. Talk to Michelle and say Simon (eBayer: ssashton) told you to talk to them. Tell them to pack the Y axis assembly separately from the main table, and remove the spindle motor from the bracket to reduce the weight hanging on it. Remind them you will want replacement parts if it arrives with damage.

Good luck!

Oh, they only listed its value as £100 for VAT ;)

Personally I feel the electronics is the least of the worries. For what you pay for a machine that cost alone is worth the machine if you reckon material and time up.
Personally I'd be happier with a control box I threw together myself

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Originally Posted by John S

I used to do this on a large CNC mill than has speed and feed limitations and got good surface finish. Personally I have found that the slower you cut plastic the better the finish because at high speed it just wants to melt.

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Ye John funny temperamental stuff plastics as I know well you know and each has its own unique likes/dislikes and ways of machining.
I've machined one manufacturers’ HDPE that would only give nice finish if cut at high feeds but when tried same setup on another manufactures HDPE at same feeds/speeds it goes into melt down or produces long curly wurly chips which strangle everything. . . . Don't figure.?? Not done much with Acrylic but from what I know and have read it too prefers high feeds.!(often the cure as not been feeds & speeds but blown air.?) . . . .Thou to be honest what concerns me is that even the melt downs have needed to be cut around this machines Max.!

My personal view on this machine is that it will be ok initially but fail quickly if pushed too hard.!!. . . It's cheap price dictates cheap components have to be used.
It's compromised in several key area's like unsupported rails and acme screws, probably both very cheap quality. The electrics are basic and again questionable regards quality and I've seen several mentions of issue's with them in various places.

I would say for a first time machine then Ok Maybe because it's cheap-ish.? . . But for special project and where it would need to shine in both quality and performance not mention longevity then I'm sorry but I'd be giving it a wide berth.!!

Camhgu I can appreciate your urgency and need for it now, but you have to ask your self can you afford for it not to perform as you might like or hoped it would.? Or the down time if unreliable.?
Buying ready made plug n play packages can be a good quick start-up if they are good quality but equally can be a right expensive time eating night mare if cheap and nasty.!!!. . . . The saying " You get what you pay for" apply's at this level I believe.

That said I wish you good luck.

Thank you and thanks once again to all who responded, this forum is certainly a wonderful resource in all things cnc related!

I will let you know how we get on in due course :)

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Ye John funny temperamental stuff plastics as I know well you know and each has its own unique likes/dislikes and ways of machining.
I've machined one manufacturers’ HDPE that would only give nice finish if cut at high feeds but when tried same setup on another manufactures HDPE at same feeds/speeds it goes into melt down or produces long curly wurly chips which strangle everything. . . . Don't figure.?? Not done much with Acrylic but from what I know and have read it too prefers high feeds.!(often the cure as not been feeds & speeds but blown air.?) . . . .Thou to be honest what concerns me is that even the melt downs have needed to be cut around this machines Max.!

My personal view on this machine is that it will be ok initially but fail quickly if pushed too hard.!!. . . It's cheap price dictates cheap components have to be used.
It's compromised in several key area's like unsupported rails and acme screws, probably both very cheap quality. The electrics are basic and again questionable regards quality and I've seen several mentions of issue's with them in various places.

I would say for a first time machine then Ok Maybe because it's cheap-ish.? . . But for special project and where it would need to shine in both quality and performance not mention longevity then I'm sorry but I'd be giving it a wide berth.!!

Camhgu I can appreciate your urgency and need for it now, but you have to ask your self can you afford for it not to perform as you might like or hoped it would.? Or the down time if unreliable.?
Buying ready made plug n play packages can be a good quick start-up if they are good quality but equally can be a right expensive time eating night mare if cheap and nasty.!!!. . . . The saying " You get what you pay for" apply's at this level I believe.

That said I wish you good luck.

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Just a thought Jazz, before we push the buy button with trepidation, lol, do you have any alternative suggestion bearing in mind that £700 is all we have available?

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Originally Posted by camhguh

Just a thought Jazz, before we push the buy button with trepidation, lol, do you have any alternative suggestion bearing in mind that £700 is all we have available?

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Unfortunatly without suggesting DIY which even then you'll struggle with only £700 to get machine, control box and spindle then I can't suggest anything.

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Originally Posted by camhguh

do you have any alternative suggestion bearing in mind that £700 is all we have available?

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I doubt it, the £700 limit is unfortunately too low unless you make it yourself.

This, for example, would be a good start:
(Not suggesting you should buy any of these parts yet, clearly you will want to first draw the whole machine to work out exact sizes)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-SBR20-se...#ht_942wt_1087

That's a bit bigger than you're after however you can ask the seller for different lengths if that's a problem.
Add to that 3Nm stepper motors, drivers, breakout board, PSU, wire and 50V drivers and you'll easily get good feedrates fort around £210 in total as long as you don't get all that from England. Once you add on the price of a spindle and the frame it's over £700 and probably more like £1000. However since the machine has supported rails, ballscrews and a good control system so it will be out perform the CNC3040 by much more than that price difference implies. Plus from making the machine yourself you will learn, as I did, a lot more about how it works and be able to troubleshoot it much more easily.

I have cut acrylic on a similarly small low power machine and obtained a good finish. So long as the chipload is correct and the depth of cut is not so high as to cause significant tool deflection the finish should be good.

One thing that helps here is single flute tools:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-157-Car...ht_2855wt_1037

(That's just the first one I found, shop around for the cheapest and get the smallest flute length you can safely use as that reduces the tool deflection, resulting in a better finish.)

Since the feedrate is proportional to the number of flutes on the tool, the rpm, diameter and chipload, if you use a single flute tool the feedrate is proportionately lower than with 2 or more flutes. Similarly if the rpm is low, which it has to be as your spindle on that machine says it only goes up to 9500rpm the feedrate is also low. The relatevely low rpm is not so bad as the surface speed is lower, causing the cutter to heat less reducing the chance of melting the acrylic. Chipload is the 'width' of the chips, or put another way the distance the tool moves per revolution divided by the number of teeth.

According to Gwizard feedrate calculator (google it) the chipload for a single flute carbide tool in acrylic is about 0.1mm for 6mm tool and 0.06mm for a 3mm tool when limited to 9500rpm. That gives 600mm/min for 3mm or 1000mm/min for a 6mm tool. If you got a better spindle and used a 6mm tool at the reccomended rpm (12700rpm) the feedrate is 1400mm/min, still well within the 2500mm/min reccomended in the eBay listing, assuming that rating can be trusted!

So in conclusion I'm confident the machine is capable of cutting acrylic with a good finish, but still I would not let that persuade you the machine will do you need. You will have to take shallow cuts, so the overall time to cut a given thickness will be greater than for a more rigid machine. If you really want a good finish on acrylic then get a laser cutter, but that'll cost a teensy bit more than £700 and is not as versatile! Alternatively look into other ways of finishing, such as buffing the edges to get an optically clear finish.

It would cut aluminium, but nowhere near fast enough for it to be worthwhile so it's hardly worth mentioning. Similarly I cut titanium sheet on the router at school (roland camm PNC2300A, probably weaker than the CNC3040) and yes it worked, but prematurely wore out the machine and took forever! It was worth it as a one off as I really wanted the part but it would be foolish to try it regularly.

Saying 'the machine can cut material x' isn't saying much, whatever the material is unless you know how fast it can cut it (i.e. material removal rate, often measured in cm^3/min).

A bit selfish Jonathan making a school loose there cnc machine because you WANTED a part made :redface:

Shame on you

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Originally Posted by 2e0poz

A bit selfish Jonathan making a school loose there cnc machine because you WANTED a part made :redface:

Shame on you

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It was my friend who did it actually, was just more convenient not to mention that in the last post but I should have. The teachers were fine with it as I guess they didn't expect it to be a problem, and my friend paid for the tool. The part was a 0.7mm thick titanium undertray for a model car to protect the Texalium (also cut on that machine). I made one too, but I did it with the guillotine and cutting with a dremel at home, then anodised it...so he naturally wanted his to be better than mine! This was about 5 years ago. If he had known what we know now he probably wouldn't have done it. Apparently it finally stopped working last year due to electronic faliure. I wish they'd asked me before dismantling it for parts as I'd have happily got it going with mach3.

Interestingly the machine is 'cable driven'. There's steel wire/rope wrapped round drums and attached to the gantry, so no backlash (I think). After dismantling it some time later and adjusting the belts it was OK.

Thanks Jonathan, good points and some more information for us to digest :)

I love it when these ijit's at school wreck these machines.
Got a Roland PNC 2200 and a PNC3100 mill for £160 the two a few months ago :whistling:

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Originally Posted by John S

I love it when these ijit's at school wreck these machines.
Got a Roland PNC 2200 and a PNC3100 mill for £160 the two a few months ago :whistling:

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I remember...

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showth...-hall-millgrav

Wish I knew how you find these things!

Wreck is going a bit far considering it was used for several years after...just needed a bit of TLC and was a bit noisier!

Well that Mill Grav belongs to Roger and he has torn it apart already to improve it :naughty:

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Originally Posted by 2e0poz

Well that Mill Grav belongs to Roger and he has torn it apart already to improve it :naughty:

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:joker:..........

I've recently bought this one:

http://www.ebay.es/itm/230685740094?...84.m1497.l2649

I asked the buyer for the item location, and he answered this:

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dear friend
please do not worry ,we have this item in UK warehouse ,i have shipped theitem from UK warehouse already
and i will send you the trackingnumber later ,then you will beliive we ship theitem from UK warehouse

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I hope he is not lying...

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Originally Posted by modcube

I've recently bought this one:

http://www.ebay.es/itm/230685740094?...84.m1497.l2649

I asked the buyer for the item location, and he answered this:



I hope he is not lying...

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LOL, We have just ordered the exact same unit (ebay uk) but not had any response from the seller yet....i doubt tho that it would cost nearly another £300 or so to deliver from Portsmouth to Nottingham!

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Originally Posted by modcube

I've recently bought this one:

http://www.ebay.es/itm/230685740094?...84.m1497.l2649

I asked the buyer for the item location, and he answered this:



I hope he is not lying...

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1 POST.!!!. . . . .Sniff sniff sniff. . . . . Erm Cod.. .:rofl:

The other reason for the high postage is to so that the do not have to pay Ebay loads of money on the sale price of the kit. Makes sense but does confuse a bit but that is why it looks so cheap.

yes I believe ebay doesn't get a penny from you for postage charges and I think it's the same for paypal.

But for £300.00 I would collect it my self

James