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Electric motorbike racing
This was not a project particularly relevant to this forum, but since it involves machining and is generally an exciting project, I think people here might be interested in hearing about it...
Over the summer this year I was involved with building and racing an electric motorbike, for the University of Nottingham PEMC research group. We started with an existing motorbike frame (Suzuki GSXR-600) which had been raced as an electric bike previously, but stripped down so we started off with a heap of parts:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14075&stc=1
1 month later:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14074&stc=1
Our rider was Jeremiah Johnson, a professional rider from Hawaii. He arrived in Nottingham shortly before the first race and stayed for the whole season. The bike was not quite finished when we had to leave for the first race in Assen, so the finishing touches, connecting all the batteries and battery management system, were only completed in the early hours before the first race in Assen. During practice Jeremiah told us that the bike had much less power than expected. We found that this was due to a fault with the motor controllers, which after working late into the night again we managed to fix in time for the race, securing 3rd place.
The subsequent races, in Anglesea, Hockenheim, Donnington and Silverstone were just as eventful. After each race we fixed any broken parts and made improvements. The first upgrade was to lighten parts of the frame, by cutting metal out where not needed and replacing some parts with carbon fibre. Another member of the team put a lot of effort into the bodywork and painted the fairings - something we didn't have time to do before the first race. Later on I added ducted fans to increase the airflow over the motors in the hope that this would let us extract more power from them.
Racing was quite an unfamiliar experience for most of the people involved. Compared with having plenty of equipment in the lab it was a stark contrast to be at a race track with only what we had remembered to take. This meant there was much improvising to keep the bike working whilst at the track. The electric bike racing attracted a lot of interest from some petrol racers and fans. I was frequently asked what the top speed and range of the bike were - about 105mph and 120 miles, though not at the same time! The race at Donington included petrol bikes on the track at the same time as us though in a separate race. It was good to see the electric bikes proving they were competitive against petrol, though less good when a petrol rider blocked Jeremiah on the penultimate corner, preventing him from taking 3rd place.
We achieved third overall in the race series, which was pleasing given the short timescale available to work on the bike and considering also that this was our first racing experience! The race series has given us valuable experience and data which we can use to improve our standing next season.
For next season I have negotiated a sponsorship deal with Parker for the motor and the plan is to race the bike in the Isle of Mann TT Zero in 5 months time. According to my simulation the new motor should get the bike to approach 180mph without much difficulty, for short periods at least.
I have got plenty of pictures of the bike, inside and out, so if people are interested I will post them. There are some videos and interviews featuring the teams that participated, including us, here on the IET website.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14076&stc=1
We're currently looking for sponsorship for the parts required for the upcoming races (TT zero and moto-e), so if you're reading this and works for a company that manufactures something related, please do get in touch.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Cool project. This sounds like something channel 4 would be interested in for their programme about speed with the TT racer Guy Martin.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
I think Cool Project sums it up!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
m_c
I think Cool Project sums it up!
A while ago; whilst visiting Jonathon at his house, he let me have a go at an electric push bike he had made. I would consider myself to be quite a "daring" individual, also overweight.
However, I lost my bottle at half-throttle. this thing went like a scalded cat
The work you have done on this motorbike is a credit to you Jon; I cant think of a better person to be involved in such an exciting project. well done.
Dont "sell out" for an office job like I did!!!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
SACRILEGE BLOODY Sacrilegeeeeee I'm still in mourning for smokers and sweet smell of "Castrol R" and adjusting to those valve murdering strokers was bad enough but if they end up making everyone go to these Silent whinners I'm coming to hunt your lot down and wire your balls to those lithium Ion assassins and drain every last bit of juice into your ball sacks.!! . :livid:
BUT well done and excellent just the same hats off to you all. . :applouse: (Just keep off our noisy smelly bikes we love so much.!)
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Know what you mean Dean, have tried to persist with Formula E but it's S***e
without the whine of an internal combustion engine.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mekanik
Know what you mean Dean, have tried to persist with Formula E but it's S***e
without the whine of an internal combustion engine.
Ye exactly and only so long you can sit in front of TV screeching Wahhh Wahhh as you go thru the virtual gears sniffing josh sticks and candles oaked in Castrol R. . . .Lol
(Ah there's a money making Idea for Us OLD Racers.!! . . . Instead of Yanky Candles company could be called Cranky Yankers. . :hysterical:)
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Here's a Vincent 1000 I converted :whistle:
Attachment 14101
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Thank you for the, er.. varied comments so far...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
(Just keep off our noisy smelly bikes we love so much.!)
It's a bit late for that. In some of the practice sessions and one of the races at Donnigton we were racing at the same time as petrol bikes. They started us off 10s after 600cc (I think) petrol bikes and if you compare the time the electric bike who won our race got with the petrol race, he'd have been in the top 10.
Eddy, I'll see you and your bike at the next race then?
Here's one part I machined for the bike. I didn't actually machine many parts as the health and safety rules prevent me from using the workshops at uni, so I mainly did electrical stuff. The part is a heatsink for the speed controller on the ducted fan that helps cool the motors - one on each side. Wall thickness is 1mm or less:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14147&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14148&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14149&stc=1
Thermal image from after a race and testing batteries:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14150&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14151&stc=1
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
This project is progressing, only 23 days to go until we go to the Isle of Mann so I'm very busy along with the others I'm working with. We now have the new custom frame, but there's still a lot to do.
My bank holiday weekend was busy on one part:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15282&stc=1
I'm currently waiting for the cells to get through customs, then they need testing and soldering into packs.
More info here. Will post more information if there are particular things people here are interested in.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Judging from the videos of the acceleration of the Tesla car / youtube/ i can only imagine what is the acceleration of electric bike with a nice motor.
Maybe that will be the turning stone in car and bike history, when they can really offer something that's better than their petrol counterparts. I see that more difficult done with bikes, cause petrol bikes accelerate really fast. However not having a gearbox will really help.
What is the weight to HP of that bike?
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
Judging from the videos of the acceleration of the Tesla car / youtube/ i can only imagine what is the acceleration of electric bike with a nice motor.
The difficulty with a bike is the tendency to wheelie limits the acceleration obtainable, but still the acceleration will be substantial. We have a fixed gear ratio, so for example if we gear it for a top speed of 160mph we will, according to my calculation,easily get 0-60 in under 2.4s and 100mph in about 4.2s. Compare that with these figures:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
I see that more difficult done with bikes, cause petrol bikes accelerate really fast. However not having a gearbox will really help.
Yes - if we gear it for a torque of just over 1000Nm at the rear wheel, we'll have that torque available all the way up to 180mph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
What is the weight to HP of that bike?
Around 1000W/kg. Compare that with these:
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Hi Jonathan,
.
A bit of metadata mining and found what you were referring to on my Build Log thread. Very nice and I'll be following this one with interest, given some of my parts have also made their way into the motorsport field, although the vehicles in question can "stand up by themselves" ;)
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Thanks for the interest. Co-incidentally I'm also working on a project to self-balance a motorbike for disabled riders, so maybe one day it will fit your criterea!
We're at the TT now - arrived yesterday. All set up in the paddock, so now it's a race to get the bike finished in time and resit the temptation to play with our pit vehicle - a Segway.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jonathan
Thanks for the interest. Co-incidentally I'm also working on a project to self-balance a motorbike for disabled riders, so maybe one day it will fit your criterea!
We're at the TT now - arrived yesterday. All set up in the paddock, so now it's a race to get the bike finished in time and resit the temptation to play with our pit vehicle - a Segway.
How about a few pics.:encouragement:
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
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We're almost ready now. First qualifier is on Friday...
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15449&stc=1
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
How much does it weigh Jonathan.? The squareness makes it look heavy but sure it's not.!
Good Luck to the Team.!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
How much does it weigh Jonathan.? The squareness makes it look heavy but sure it's not.!
Got any scales?
Seriously, we've not had the bike all together yet so it's not been weighed and it doesn't look like there are scales for bikes on this island! We'll weigh it when we can, but I guess about 230-240kg. The batteries are the main weight at ~87kg. The frame hardly weighs anything - it's 7xxx series aluminium.
Can anyone spot the bits I made ;)
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jonathan
Can anyone spot the bits I made ;)
Would that be for hanging onto.?
Don't they have a Minimum weight classification for Electric bike racing.? They do for the smelly versions.!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Brilliant work Jonathan and team!
From an ex superbike smelly racer!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
I've had a mad last two weeks or so - but we did it! The bike survived the TT ... we blew up plenty of bits between races in testing and had problems with the bike cutting out (10 times!) during the race, but were still the fastest university.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15513&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15514&stc=1
Must remember to buy more cooling hoses for next time, or hire the same van :playful:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Would that be for hanging onto.?
Yep, I also made the water cooling block below by borrowing my friend's CNC router. We were nowhere near finishing so we took my mini lathe in the van. Almost everyone who passed our box said 'look, they have a lathe!'... you'd think they'd never seen one before. The lathe proved just as useful to other teams as us - I think I helped out 5 different teams with it, including skimming a shaft from a sidecar.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15515&stc=1
Next we're racing in a series called 'Moto-E' in the UK and Europe.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
That's a beautiful piece of aluminum. Must be fun at the competition.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Congrats to you and the team Jon. Fantastic achievement and enjoy Moto-E!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Well done Jonathan. I have been in Plymouth to celebrate? our golden wedding aniversary since Tuesday, so have only just seen your posts. The pics look fantastic, the bike, ally part and the crew, but why were the others all in shirt sleeves, and you in your winter woolies? Seriously though that really is a great perfomance and I hope that you repeat your success in Moto-E. G.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Excellent stuff Jonathan!
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
well done lads some great shots...jonathan looks to be supervising again:peaceful:
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Thanks for the comments. If any of you are going to be near one of the races let me know and I can show you the bike close up. We'll be at Silverstone, Donnington, Anglesea, Portimao (Portugal) somewhere in Germany and maybe Assen (Netherlands). The first race is in the very beginning of August - ish, dates have not been confirmed yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
The pics look fantastic, the bike, ally part and the crew, but why were the others all in shirt sleeves, and you in your winter woolies?
I think I was still recovering from earlier in the week:
https://www.facebook.com/UoNElectric...8654824299305/
Here are some more parts I machined for the bike - some sprockets:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15525&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15527&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15528&stc=1
They were surprisingly easy - I just used a 6mm cutter for the main profile and a simple V-shaped tool I made from silver steel for the chamfer. Next time I will add some pockets to save weight. For these I was in a hurry so didn't bother.
They worked, but were a bit wobbly as the aluminium plate wasn't terribly flat! The bike has done about 100 miles on the TT course and the 6082T6 aluminium hasn't worn much at all, so it doesn't seem worthwhile splashing out on 7075 grade. I think I'll just order some tooling plate to guarantee sufficient flatness and make plenty.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
We just won at the Nurburgring!!
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15740&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15741&stc=1
Had some weird problems with our motor controller (resulting in us taking the bike to bits 3 times over the course of the weekend), so we had to limit both the torque and speed to 66%, but even so we were still just only 4 seconds a lap behind the superbikes.
For this race I made a new rear sprocket plus some titanium M12 bolts so that we can have data logging of the suspension:
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15742&stc=1
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
well done,and nice work on the parts.makes me miss my mill/router :thumsup::thumsup:
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
About time I updated this...
We won the races in Anglesey and Pembrey, messed up in Cadwell and won all three races in Portimao which meant we won the overall championship. We got a top speed of 145mph in Portimao, though still limited to 50% power output due to issues with the motor controller, so the focus is to make our own now.
In terms of machining, I made several more sprockets - this time from tooling plate and they held up well. Also modified the water cooling block on the motor, as the rider ground it down a bit when leaning the bike over.
Some pictures here:
Attachment 16493Attachment 16494Attachment 16495Attachment 16496Attachment 16497Attachment 16498
... and the obligatory action shots:
Attachment 16499Attachment 16500
Can't wait for the TT next year now - so many things we can work on and improve. The current plan is to make some small changes to this bike and make a whole new bike, so we can take two to the TT. I'm keen to design a frame that could be machined from only CNC milled parts, so no welding and bending aluminium tube. I think it would give some useful design possibilities, in addition to making it easier to replace parts when the inevitable crash happens.
https://www.facebook.com/miquel.gime...6494572616962/
P.S. If anyone has ~£5000 sloshing around, let me know and you can sponsor us :tongue:
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
I must say this is pretty cool, I wish I'd seen this earlier, I live in Derby and Donnington isn't that far, congratulations and I look forward to your success next year.
Cheers, Charlie
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CharlieRam
I must say this is pretty cool, I wish I'd seen this earlier, I live in Derby and Donnington isn't that far, congratulations and I look forward to your success next year.
Cheers, Charlie
I will try to remember to post the dates for next year's races when they are set, so anyone here who is interested can come and see.
Today we found the lazy way to draw your motorbike:
Attachment 16635
Expecting a point cloud soon...
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Really enjoyed reading this thread Jonathan! Keep us posted on any updates and thanks for all the effort with the pics.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
The bike project is getting going again. One of the nice things is getting to machine some more interesting materials, e.g. a £300 piece of titanium bar for the motor shaft:
Attachment 17762Attachment 17763
I chose titanium purely for the 'easy' weight saving. We're getting the motor core length a little longer for more power, so the increase of weight from this will be offset a bit by lightening the shaft. My lathe seems to be coping OK so far. I first made sure the tailstock was properly aligned as the tolerances are pretty strict on this one and spent the rest of the weekend doing the roughing cuts.
More fun than millions of battery terminals:
Attachment 17764Attachment 17765Attachment 17766Attachment 17767
I programmed those using Octave (though just about any language would have done), parametrically so I just have to enter the dimensions and the rest is worked out. It seemed worth it to get an efficient toolpath - probably wasn't, but more interesting!
Next thing will be some parts from aluminium and carbon sheet to make a new tail unit packed with batteries.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quick update, I made some progress with the titanium shaft this weekend. I almost finished the lathe work:
Attachment 17927Attachment 17928Attachment 17929
I used a CBN tip for the finishing as it was able to take extremely light cuts, so no "hand finishing techniques" required. The tolerance on the part measured above was 50.003-50.015, so I made it to 50.010 as the young's modulus of this material is lower than the steel that fit was specified for, so making the interference slightly greater seemed the safe option (though it probably wont matter in reality).
Next weekend I'll do the last bit of turning on the other end, then it needs a few slots miling and some holes drilling to mount the sprocket.
In other news, we should be getting the new bike frame delivered within a week, so watch this space. Race dates have also been confirmed, so I'll be in Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal and the UK!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lachlan
Really enjoyed reading this thread Jonathan! Keep us posted on any updates and thanks for all the effort with the pics.
You should check out the "Voltron" bike on endless-sphere.com, made by someone near you (Australia at least).
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jonathan
I almost finished the lathe work:
Famous last words ... took me most of last weekend to actually finish the turning:
Attachment 17983
I double checked all the diameters now it is off the lathe and it's well within tolerance - e.g. the longest diameter is 0.011mm different from end to end, but the drawing specified up 0.04mm here.
Next step is to mill 3 keyways in it and drill some holes for the sproket.
We also got some new brakes delivered from PFM. Apparently they're really good ... I don't know about brakes.
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
7 days until we leave for the TT...
Attachment 18479
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Re: Electric motorbike racing
