New Build 1000x600x200mm (newbie)

Hi Everyone,

first let me say that I'm a total noob compared to you all but willing to learn if you guys advise me.
I have already bought parts based on recommendations from this forum and have the design in my mind and hopefully will state all my plans here. I'm sorry I'm not a pro in using cad programs so I can't show you any designs but that's something I'm planning working on.

My extent of experience in CNC machines is building up a shapeoko2 (upgraded to 1x1m) with stock parts, though that machine is doing well for what it is, I wan't to make my own rigid machine.

My main aim is to be able to cut guitar body parts from wood like alder,maple,basswood etc.
Being able to cut alum/acrylic/plastic for projects would be a big plus, and achievable I imagine.

based on my requirements I decided on this size as I don't see me needing more than that work area (even less) and would happily trade the extra size for more precision/accuracy,stability and rigidity.


this is just a placeholder, will post more

Thank you!

Hi Noplace

Download Sketchup; its free

there are LOADS of videos all over youtube showing you how to do everything... bit of patience and you'll get there

you'll be so pleased youve learnt it aswell.. its so useful for so much other stuff


keep us posted...

Good luck with the build, always makes me nervous when someone posts that they've bought parts and they've not posted a design for all to critique....

With regards to drawing, Sketchup is free and good for playing about so you can see how things might go together.

Thanks for the Sketchup suggestion, I have dabbled at it before but ill give it a more focused go now.

I kinda thought that buying parts before design is frowned upon here, but I really didn't have a choice unless have to wait until I Become good in designing software, but I had no patience for that and was eager lol.


Material/Parts so far:

• 2x HGR 35mm Rail : 1000m & 2 x 35mm Bearing Block, Square
• 2x 40mm x 80mm T-Slotted Extrusion : 1000m
• 2x 80mm x 80mm T-Slotted Extrusion : 600m
• 4x 40mm x 40mm T-Slotted Extrusion : 600m
• Assorted brackets, nuts and screws for the above
• 2x 1610 Ballscrew : 900mm & 2x Housing Bracket
• 2x BK12 & BF2
• 2x Flexible Coupling Coupler 6.35mmx10mm shaft
• 2x NEMA 23 Stepper Servo Motor Mount Bracket
• 4x SY60STH86-3008B Nema 23
• 1x Leadshine EM806
• 1x C35S - QUICK SETUP BREAKOUT BOARD (C35S)
• 1x RPS608 Power supply

Once I get all the items I will lay them out and take photos of how I plan on building and hopefully you guys could contribute on any required adjustments

you would notice I still didn't buy anything for the gantry as I have still not designed it (in my mind lol) and have to procure the side plates which I really need help with.

I'll get more drivers once I configure the first one, would need help with the wiring with the power supply,is it enough to drive 4 of them?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noplace

I'll get more drivers once I configure the first one, would need help with the wiring with the power supply,is it enough to drive 4 of them?

Thanks!

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Probably not big enough for the job 10 amps would have been better, read this; http://www.geckodrive.com/support.html
Now you have it I would give it a go and see how it performs.

• 2x HGR 35mm Rail : 1000m & 2 x 35mm Bearing Block, Square

Now you have got me here. Quite big, don't you think? Normally 20 size is enough.


By the way i have always wondered:what is the size router the guitar makers need? It seems you can clear that question now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silyavski

• 2x HGR 35mm Rail : 1000m & 2 x 35mm Bearing Block, Square

Now you have got me here. Quite big, don't you think? Normally 20 size is enough.


By the way i have always wondered:what is the size router the guitar makers need? It seems you can clear that question now.

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I chose that based on what I read from the product document, thought might be better take something better than to be sorry, would it cause any issues?

as router I'm no expert but I know some are using ones like dewalt and bosch colt.

Motors and driver arrived, just waiting for power supply and breakout board to test them out.

Now the big questions:
-what would be the ideal setting for the drivers? amps and microsteps?
-whats the correct wiring for the motor and driver? series/parallel/other?
-what type of connectors and cables should I use to connect motor and driver ? 18awg 8conductor? ethernet cables?? please point me to a site that sells good ones or is normal cat5/6 sufficient?

edit: sorry I kinda felt dumb asking the last question, now I understand that the 8 wires from the motor would be paired so the cable should be 4 core as stated in other posts. and I guess ethernet is ok for connection between stepper driver and breakout board?

however what would you recommend to connect the motor cable? straight up soldered into the long 4-core or connectors?

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14493&stc=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noplace

I chose that based on what I read from the product document, thought might be better take something better than to be sorry, would it cause any issues?

as router I'm no expert but I know some are using ones like dewalt and bosch colt.

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i mean the working area needed for guitar making ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silyavski

i mean the working area needed for guitar making ?

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guitar body blanks are around 482x355x45mm so I should have plenty of space, even for the necks but I think thats more advanced

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silyavski

i mean the working area needed for guitar making ?

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If you want to make a through neck bass or 8 string guitar without having to move the blank in between machining, the work area needs to be 1200 mm long, the 600 wide is okay.
But because the neck would need to positioned more carefully it makes sense to move the blank into a different position than the body was in, so 900 mm long would be okay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noplace

however what would you recommend to connect the motor cable? straight up soldered into the long 4-core or connectors?

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Yes, solder then cover each joint with heatshrink sleeving. Then solder a piece of wire about 200mm long, of the same thickness as the core wires, to the screenm then cover the whole area with a larger piece of heatshrink. Now you should have all the joints covered and that 200mm piece of wire coming out from under the large heatshrink sleeving and that wire is used to earth the screen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Yes, solder then cover each joint with heatshrink sleeving. Then solder a piece of wire about 200mm long, of the same thickness as the core wires, to the screenm then cover the whole area with a larger piece of heatshrink. Now you should have all the joints covered and that 200mm piece of wire coming out from under the large heatshrink sleeving and that wire is used to earth the screen.

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Just for completeness I would suggest 4 core CY 1mm or 1.5mm cable as http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html .. Clive

Just started learning solidworks, please bare with me I'm a total beginner in this thing but somehow managed to design the frame as I intended based on the parts I bought:

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14528&stc=1

Here is my design of the gantry side plates, the hiwin blocks are actually longer and would be mounted at both ends and not like the design below, I just couldn't find the right CAD model for the HGH35CA

the plates are 10mm thick and they would attach from the bottom outside to the ballscrews ( again sorry I couldn't find the proper CAD models, really new to this and self learning)

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14537&stc=1

Guys I could really use some advise and guidance at this stage, really appreciate it.

Also if anyone is a solidworks expert, I couldn't figure out a way to mate the left and right linears, maybe it will show in the photo that they are not exactly aligned.

If the gantry side plates are aluminium then 20mm thick is the usual advice.

use parallel mates to hold the bearings on the rails ... then use co-incident mates to hold the 10mm plates onto the bearings
you also use a coincident mate to keep the front faces of the two bearings aligned, so when move the one gantry arm, the other will follow

Updated with 20mm plates and a bit of the gantry, do you think it would need more support or can i stick with just the two 40x40 extrusions?

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14578&stc=1

Hi Noplace, your frame needs a lot of bracing and strengthening as does your gantry. Have a look through some of the build logs and you'll see what I mean....these are two sililar to what I think you're aiming for?

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6988-routercnc_MK3

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8206-...Axis-CNC-Build

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Originally Posted by njhussey

Hi Noplace, your frame needs a lot of bracing and strengthening as does your gantry. Have a look through some of the build logs and you'll see what I mean....these are two sililar to what I think you're aiming for?

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6988-routercnc_MK3

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8206-...Axis-CNC-Build

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Hi many thanks for your comment, yea the 2nd link looks more or less like what I'm aiming. as you see in my design the frame ends consist of 80x80 extrusions but I left out 3 pieces of 40x40 which I will attach through out the empty space, I do think that would be enough support and I hope I'm not wrong hehe, otherwise I could get more and enforce further?

for the gantry I guess I still didnt settle on a design in my mind, maybe instead of the 40x40 extrusions I would replace them with 80x80? I apologize I'm not a mechanical engineering just going by my own logic so not sure what else I could add to it to make it better

The most common configuration for a gantry is the L shape. Mostly others use either 80x40, 90x40 extrusion or 100x50 rectangular box section aluminium. There are any number of threads showing this examples such as any of Kingcreaky's 3 builds, Eddy Current's build etc. etc. have a look at these and you'll see the type of thing.

Hi, what do you think of this brother?

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14589&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14590&stc=1

What Z axis height /work piece/ you are trying to achieve? The gantry seems too high, not sure, may be the perspective on the drawing. For this type of machine 100mm is reasonable, 120mm is best compromise, 150mm is on the limit and more than that is just wishful thinking. Without further reinforcing the gantry with say - a steel plate.

Hi yeah I think you are right it does look way too high, I have reduced it by 100mm which would look like this now :

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14595&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14596&stc=1

changed to perspective projection that might look more realistic I hope.

I was really hoping to achieve more than 100mm z-height, but if I can stretch it to 150mm I guess that would be okay.

The best and stiffest way to achieve height is to have the L shaped gantry sitting on the carriages and raise the frame up on legs. If you have an adjustable bed then you can cut deep items but for 90% of cutting have the bed as near the cutter as possible to keep cutter flex to a minimum. What will you be mostly cutting?

Hi Neil, mostly wood with occasional aluminium

hey guys I could use your help on designing the Z axis to complete the machine, I have made it 200x240mm but I don't know if that is the best size given my machine overall design.

and am thinking of mounting the hiwin blocks on the stationary part and the rails on the second plate which will move up and down, should the second plate and the rails be also 240mm ?

last thing i need help with (for now lol) is what HIWIN rail and block size should I use for my x axis ( gantry left and right ) and z axis? HGR the heavy duty ones or will EGR be good enough?

thanks !

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14770&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14771&stc=1http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14772&stc=1

I forgot to mention that I'm planning on using 2.2kw Chinese spindle and won't be changing that in the future for this machine, the bracket for that is 150mm I think, so should I reduce the Z plates width to 150 or stick to 200?

In terms of width of Y axis plate then 200mm is reasonable to reduce racking of the Y/Z axis assembly as this spreads the Y bearings apart a bit. Some people make the plate have 'ears' where the Y bearings mount which can help with clearance and assembly. Not mandatory as it depends on the other details of the design, but worth a look.

I went with less than 200mm spacing to get more working space as it is primarily a wood cutting machine. There is no problem with mounting a 150mm wide plate to this to hold the spindle. You can use the real estate at the sides to mount DTIs, laser pointer, dust shoe etc.

In terms of height of the Y axis plate only needs to be as high as the Z ballscrew, fixed and floating bearing, and stepper connection dictates. You need to draw these to see how tall it has to be to give the required travel on the Z ballscrew nut. In practise this could be close to 240mm but there is no specific requirement to match the moving Z axis plate in height.

Bearing sizes - I used 15mm on the Z (but wish I'd used 20mm as they are much stiffer), 20mm on the Y (which I'm happy with) and 16mm SUPPORTED rail on the X (wood cutting machine). If I was to use profile Hiwin style rail then I would use 20mm as a minimum.

The way you have mounted the gantry to the X bearings looks poor, as seen in the front view picture. A very long cantilever plate which is OK for wood, but not ideal for aluminium. You should redesign this, or add a further connection up to the gantry, or raise the X axis to meet the gantry directly.

Well with the Y axis rear plate(across gantry) you have room to have it wider than the front plate because it will over hang the bearings which the front plate can't or will crash into bearings. This will make Y axis much stiffer and be easier to access the bearing bolts. Yes put the bearings on the rear plate, rails on front moving plate.

For the Z axis you want hi-win HGH20CA Z0 which are the slim type and for the other Axis you want HGW20CA Z0 which are the wider bearing and will give a bit more support. Don't use 15mm the bearing blocks are too small and fiddly making building a Z axis more difficult due to clearences etc.

With the design I feel you are a little low on the height as it won't leave much room for cutters but then again I don't know what your cutting so may not matter.
Neils suggestion about X bearings looking poor is valid and has it is will need some bracing to help stiffen which is easy enough. But there's another change that I would make which will lessen the cantilever but more importantly allow for easier adjustment of the ballnut and allow some protection for the screws.?

Make the Gantry sides drop to the inside of the ballscrew not the outside.? This will shorten the gantry width and reduce bearing plate width and cantilever making it stiffer.
It allows access from the outside to the ballnut for adjustment and greasing etc.
Another important and often overlooked thing is screw protection, Your way makes it harder to protect the screw with a cover because of the gantry side being on the out side. If it's on the inside if the screw you can make a cover using C channel with a brush strip on top that covers any gap and wipes the gantry. This makes a very easy way to cover and protect which you'll want to do if cutting aluminium or wood even with screws on outside. (see pic)
Attachment 14782Attachment 14783

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Make the Gantry sides drop to the inside of the ballscrew not the outside.? This will shorten the gantry width and reduce bearing plate width and cantilever making it stiffer.
It allows access from the outside to the ballnut for adjustment and greasing etc.

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Make sure that you also think about how you are going to mount things like the ballscrew housings on, for example, the gantry sides.....(cough....don't ask me how I know!!) I'm using MGD16 ballnut housings which you can mount from the outside of the gantry endplates instead of some lower profile aluminium ones that I got from Aliexpress which I would have had to mount to the gantry side and then put the side on the gantry..............:victorious:

gents thanks a lot, I'm going to change a bit to make it more rigid, I have an idea on my mind I'll work on, I just hope its good enough :black_eyed:

I made a quick change to the gantry sides , reduced the width since its just going to be a waste with unnecessary cost and also hindering rigidity. gantry sides are now inside, will have to figure how to design the ballscrew holders with this design, but at least its not compromising (hopefully)
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14790&stc=1

Try and keep the gantry sides all one piece like Jazzcnc first pic. Clive

Just have the sides going straight down like Jazz showed in his last post, you're making it uneccessarily complicated. To make the gantry really stiff ideally you'd drop it so it sits on the plate the X axis carriages...

(Clive beat me to it...)

What Profile are you using that those rails sit onto because the rails look nearly as wide as the profile which if 20mm or 30mm the profile it is far too weak.

That or things are very much out of scale which makes designing very difficult.!

Your change is weak and complicated so I wouldn't take that route.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

What Profile are you using that those rails sit onto because the rails look nearly as wide as the profile which if 20mm or 30mm the profile it is far too weak.

That or things are very much out of scale which makes designing very difficult.!

Your change is weak and complicated so I wouldn't take that route.

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It's 40x80mm

How does this look?
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14793&stc=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noplace

How does this look?

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Much better but again you don't have much clearence between base and lower gantry so just becareful you don't limit your options.
What size are those rails.? They must be 30mm if profile is 40 and 30mm is massive OTT.

You havent shown a view with how the bearing plates fit with regards gantry cross piece, don't get caught out with common Gotcha of not beaing able to get to bearing bolts.!!

With you have such short travel distance then I change my statement about having Z rails on front plate. With this short stubby design you'll be better with them on the rear plate as you will hardly ever extend below the bottom of the rear plate when spindle is attached. In this case you'll need to go up more than down for tool clearence so you may need longer rear plate.

I suggest you continue with design and draw in the rest of the Z axis with spinlde to get an idea of what cut travel you'll have available.

unfortunatly like an idiot i bought the rails 2 months ago while having a vague idea of what I want, so I have to work it in.

working on the design, just a quick update on the side showing how the rails and ballscrew work together, i had to redesign a bit:

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=14813&stc=1