retrofit Boxford vmc mill 260 Info needed on Yaskawa contactor relay and VFD choices

Hi,

I’m currently in the process of a Boxford VMC 260 mill retrofit and have hit a problem that I cannot confirm without possibly killing myself! Images of my dismantling and rebuild are at: https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7Yuqzf


Background: I was given a Boxford mill working (sadly they couldn’t give me the 'pc' with it) a VMC 260mill with tool turret which I am converting to use 3x MA860H stepper drivers and the control board which came with it, so no smooth steppers here... (this is the controller which came with the package (but bought through eBay from savebase - cannot find link) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FreeS...496345231.html

As I had the full working machine, I have decided to change the controllers but keep the Gemini speed controller for the spindle.
I drew out the circuit diagram down for the bits I need including the lighting and mist coolant pump, but in my haste, I didn’t write down the voltages of any logic side – I didn’t probe about before taking it apart.

The yaskawa relay contactor is something I am going to use to switch the directions of my spindle, and this works by just switching the poles over for the spindle. (Or I suppose I could just have it going forwards if I cannot figure it out)

I have worked out which of the pins are the input pins to switch and how it works, but have not worked out the input voltage for switching. Is it 18/22v or is it a mains input? I have a feeling its 18/22v (from the massive transformer) but don’t want to wire it up and get it wrong.

If someone can send me a wiring diagram for this or let me know how to wire up the switching correctly, that will be fab.

I’m going to hopefully end up with a switch that switches the relays on the existing relay board which controls the voltage going to the input pins of the contactor relay thing. but there may be an Arduino controlling timings etc.
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Another question I have is what suitable VFD can I use to control the Gemini? I know its 0-8v so was thinking just a potential divider would do, but others seem a bit more sophisticated. I'm thinking of using this http://www.diycnc.co.uk/spindleV4.pdf, would this be suitable?

The power would then go through a relay connected up to the main controller board so that the emergency stop would disconnect power to the spindle and the steppers.

I have been reading through the many links and pages for the Boxford threads, but not much luck on wiring the relays. I have the wiring diagram from the Boxford lathes but it doesn’t help with the voltages.

Any help or direction is appreciated (I hope this makes sense!)

Nathaniel Poate

Nathaniel I'm not sure your fully understanding some things.?

First what your calling a controller is actually just a Breakout board and does nothing but provide an interface to the Motion control device or Parallel port.
Also The Gemini speed controller is for controlling spindle speed so you don't need a VFD. I'm not familiar with these machines but I'd take a guess that it's also using a DC motor for spindle and the Gemini is a DC speed controller.
VFD is Three phase motor speed control and often used to convert single phase input to three phase output.

I'd also take an educated guess and say the Contactor is 24V but it could be AC or DC. I recently stripped a Boxford Lathe and that used Yaskawa 24Vac contactor with power taken from the transformer which provided multiple outputs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Nathaniel I'm not sure your fully understanding some things.?

First what your calling a controller is actually just a Breakout board and does nothing but provide an interface to the Motion control device or Parallel port.
Also The Gemini speed controller is for controlling spindle speed so you don't need a VFD. I'm not familiar with these machines but I'd take a guess that it's also using a DC motor for spindle and the Gemini is a DC speed controller.
VFD is Three phase motor speed control and often used to convert single phase input to three phase output.

I'd also take an educated guess and say the Contactor is 24V but it could be AC or DC. I recently stripped a Boxford Lathe and that used Yaskawa 24Vac contactor with power taken from the transformer which provided multiple outputs.

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Thank you for replying, yes I know it's a BoB boar, not the controller, sorry I got a bit confused with words there.

the spindle is dc and does receive an ac input for power direct from mains, so there is ac going through the yaskawa relay. I guess what I'm needing is a, a dictionary to confirm the terms I'm using, b a spindle controller which outputs 0-10v (although 8v is max speed )
i will look into the 24v ac contractors online and see if it matches anything in the wiring diagrams I have.

If you wanted to use Mach3 to control spindle speed with 0-10v you would need a different BoB like this one -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-3x-5-A...item462f035560

Ok well please don't think I'm being OFF or clever with you but getting the terms correct is very important when trying to help.

Regards the Spindle then you need either a BOB with analog or PWM 0-10v speed control OUTPUT built into it. Or a separate Analog 0-10v speed control that uses an Axis Output like DIYCNC SpindleV4 board. The term VFD refers to Variable frequency drive and is differant animal.

The Gemini is converting AC into DC and doing the controlling so you just need to feed it a reference voltage for the speed, eithier thru Analog 0-10v control or manual Rotary Pot.(potentiometer)
Yaskawa Contactor is just a switch in affect controlled with a lower voltage from another source, most likely an output from the motion control board or BOB which again will most likely control a 24v source which turns the contactor ON/OFF.?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Ok well please don't think I'm being OFF or clever with you but getting the terms correct is very important when trying to help.

Regards the Spindle then you need either a BOB with analog or PWM 0-10v speed control OUTPUT built into it. Or a separate Analog 0-10v speed control that uses an Axis Output like DIYCNC SpindleV4 board. The term VFD refers to Variable frequency drive and is differant animal.

The Gemini is converting AC into DC and doing the controlling so you just need to feed it a reference voltage for the speed, eithier thru Analog 0-10v control or manual Rotary Pot.(potentiometer)
Yaskawa Contactor is just a switch in affect controlled with a lower voltage from another source, most likely an output from the motion control board or BOB which again will most likely control a 24v source which t

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thank you, no I don't think that, It is very helpful if in get the right terms.
sounds like it is the spindle v4 I need, so will order one of them, just wanted to confirm if that was what other people thought.

the yaskawa contractor switches poles to give forward and reverse direction on the spindle, so I can just use the relay on the BoB to switch the contactor into the on standard direction drive, all my controls will be done that way as I don't have reverse cutting tools nor the software side to specify direction change unless mach3 does this and I havnt seen it, but cambam wouldn't output the code anyway.

a little background on me, I have 2 cnc mills and several 3d printers, and studied masters in robotics so I am looking at this from a ground of understanding. And a mechanical a ginger as a job.

the original electronics did have a series of 4 relays which is wired into the contactor and is used to select forward or reverse in the contactor so I will investigate the power lines. And try to draw the diagram.

sadly that's at work and I'm home suffering a bout of food poisoning so I guess it will have to wait! But for now spindlev4 is going on order!

thank you

nat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roboteernat

all my controls will be done that way as I don't have reverse cutting tools nor the software side to specify direction change unless mach3 does this and I havnt seen it, but cambam wouldn't output the code anyway.

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You obviously Don't control spindle thru software with your other 2 Cnc machines then.? . . . To reverse spindle direction thru software use M4 G-code command, M3 is Clockwise M4 Anti Clockwise M5 spindle Stop.

When you get your V4 spindle board you'll need to set Mach3 up in (ports&pins/spindle Setup) for turning ON/OFF Output for Direction in relation to each Commnand. Ie M3= Output #1
You'll Also have to set up the Output # to a Output pin on your BOB. This is done in (ports&pins/Output signals). Often this is relay on the BOB which is assigned an Output Pin.

I don't that's true, I have a small aluminium cnc mill with seperate spindle on off, and a converted Bridgeport mill with cnc retrofit.
the pin setup will be easy for me as I have done that before, but with reverse I'm not going to be doing any climbing so direction is something I can add later if needs. Thanks for the info on the spindle control tho

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roboteernat

but with reverse I'm not going to be doing any climbing so direction is something I can add later if needs.

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If your talking about Climb milling then you don't reverse spindle anyway. Reverse is mostly used for things like tapping etc or special use cutters.

So, i have taken the yaskawa apart to determin the wiring for this thing, and it looks like its just needs to be connected to live for the opposing side to actuate. Therefore i am wiring up my spindle controller and will see how it goes! I need to install MACH3 onto a new pc as the old one keeps crashing now so that will be a job for tomorrow! This will allow me to have directional control, but not manual speed control from the unit - only through mach3. It would be interesting to fit the speed feedback sensor into the system, but unsure if i can atm...

It seems that the issues have gone away now.

I have bought a spindlev4 board to control my spindle, then powered up my BOB with a PSU, and blew the microcontroller on the BOB handheld controller. The spindle board is fine as wasnt connected.

I then bought a new BOB which comes with the spindle output control and relay so im just going to fit that instead.
The Yaskawa relay will be bipassed for the time being (or maybe not depending on if i want to use it in the end). I am wiring in the new BOB and tested it.

Another thing i knew but forgot to remember was that mach3 doesnt like 64 bit machines, nor vista running 64bit, so a few days of tinkering and it was just the PC!
windows 7 32bit now installed and all running ok on a test motor.

Progress will be reported on in my blog, which i will link here when i have done it (although im sure i should rename this post to reflect it as a boxford 260 vmc retrofit)