DDSCV1.1 3 and 4 axis offline motion controller

[John S]

Also not a lawyer although most on the internet are BUT these could fall into the low voltage directive and be exempt ?

[bikepete]

I've had some dealings with CE marking (via a completely different industry). As has been said it involves a declaration of conformity issued by the manuf or importer, but that really needs to be backed by technical documentation in case of challenge (the possibility is remote that this would occur, sure...).

For sale within China there's clearly no need for any CE marking.

But if the controller had been developed with the intention of export to EU markets, then the manufacturer would likely have designed it with that in mind (e.g. using lead free solder) and conducted the relevant tests (e.g. EMC) etc. to ensure that it will comply with the relevant EU directives.

An importer (other than for personal use) can self-certify the DoC as you say (and must also place a CE mark on the product before placing it on the market in the EU), but they should have sound grounds for stating it complies with the relevant directives, and would need evidence of this compliance if ever challenged by the authorities.

(Not an expert) but I think the controller in question falls under:

- EMC Directive (electromagnetic interference)

- RoHS (covers things like lead in solder)

Just possibly the Machinery Directive if it controls safety logic e.g. e-stops.

Also presumably the General Product Safety Directive if selling to end users. Not sure if that applies to B2B sales.

I don't think it's affected by the Low Voltage Directive as despite the name that's for 50V AC or 75V DC upwards.

For enthusiast importers supplying it for DIY shed use all this may not matter much, given it's a pretty low risk sort of item all in all.

But if these were to be imported commercially by e.g. one of the main model engineering suppliers, they'd probably want to make sure it was all above board. And if the manufacturer can't provide the necessary evidence/assurances, that could prevent such suppliers taking it on. Which might keep sales numbers down and reduce the manufacturer's incentive to improve it...

Re the larger £400ish jobbies - not looked too hard but didn't see anything on the web pages saying they are CE-ready & EMC/RoHS compliant either.

None of this will stop me getting one (£140 job initially) when my machine eventually gets finished enough to be ready for it - am just waiting until the last possible moment before ordering to ensure I get the latest version.

Cheers

Pete

[John S]

Dean is correct up to a point in that these controllers are still a work in progress and until they have some time under their belt there will be a question mark over them.
This is the DDSCV controller I am talking about.
This doesn't apply to the higher end one as GSK has been making these for about 8 odd years and they power the majority of Chinese CNC's used in China to product what we buy in the west and as such are proven.

Now to muddy the waters further and this is the cheaper DSCV controller.
Modern electronics are quite good these days. Take the average DRO reader. I have had DRO's for well over 20 years, had the odd scale go down mainly due to crap and age but NEVER had a read head go down and how many out there. ?

They are powered by an ARM processor which is what is in the majority of mobile phones which have been made in the billions. In fact Intel and AMD have announced that this last batch of processors for PC's and laptops will be the last batch as both are moving over onto ARM processors as better and more powerful.

From someone far more knowledgeable than me who has been inside one they are running Debian as an operating system so basically it Linux at the core of this and being open sourced means it can be hacked or modified.
Whilst playing around with this Joules managed to wipe the operating system but as he'd backed the files up previously he was able to restore the OS. So that isn't the problem that Dean feels it is.

As regards reliability I feel that isn't the problem that Dean feels it is. I am in exactly the same boat in the mill conversions I do but so far all my problems have been computer related, a few mach related but by far the most problems have been with third party controllers and breakout boards etc.

Two trips to Hull to replace two blown up System 3 boards on separate occasions plus two drivers that took took out.
Two trips to Darlington to replace Spindle 3 boards that didn't work right.
One trip to Bristol for another breakout board problem and other trips for roughly the same problems.

TBH I got real fed up of acting as unpaid R&D for certain manufacturers especially when they didn't listen to what the problem was and just ran out the same old "well we have sold 100's and you are the first person " etc, etc, yada, yada.

Like most projects out of those 100, 90 are still on the bench as a work in progress. You test a job, cut sample parts etc, send it out and it doesn't work because one model HP computer cannot generate the charge pump signal.

OK Deans customers are mom and pop operations and can't afford the downtime which I except but in a case such as this when I spec a job out, knowing that drivers are always the weak link once a system is up and working I cost a spare driver into the job and send it out with the job. It's all about piece of mind.

In a case like this and when the Oxford jobs comes off then i will have costed a spare controller into the sum. At the most it's 15 to 20 wires to swap over. Even though about fitting them on plug in headers but 15 v 1 isn't good odds so they are skilled enough to swap one over inside 1/2 hour, no having to send spares or run 200 - 300 miles.

I will have less components into the mix that at the moment when I'm shipping Mach3 with a computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, breakout board and possibly an external controller.

Will it change overnight ? no it won't but change will come. I am good friends with Art Fenerty who wrote Mach 3, we talk for about an hour every couple of weeks on the phone. I have immense respect for Art and what he can do.

Only last week he said that a problem had come up where W10 couldn't read one of the ocx files required by Mach3 as it was old technology and his concern was that up to W10 would be the end for Mach 3.

Now we all know that older computers will be around for years but it proves that change will have to come about or more problems will surface as all computers are different.

Dean has his concerns and is right to have them whilst he's supplying a service but not everyone can afford Deans services and anything that can simplify setting up the controller side of a CNC will help the hobby.

For me on 3 / 4 axis mill I'm happy to take the chance, not a big outlay, in fact over a PC it's a saving on equipment and licenses and I can always go back if necessary.

On lathe then for me only the NEW / GSK type £400 controller will work as no one has yet to show me anything that can thread correctly with the minimum of setting up and not having to rely on at least two vendors of hardware / software who most of the time don't talk to one another.

[John S]

Pete, Very grey area but controllers fall into the exempt area for lead free as they are controlling critical equipment unlike say a washing machine or radio.

However I know what you are saying.

Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.

Both Zapp and Arceurotade have stopped selling ball screws as everyone is going direct and it won't end there.
Arc is to stop selling drivers and steppers when the current stock has run out for the same reason.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.

Exactly my findings, though i stubbornly looked for the supplier. But as i said i looked with the idea to make them change this and that so it fits better to our needs. For the price they wholesale it, it has to be sold sth like 250 euro to be worth the effort. Even so it will be a great deal. But with the said changes and updated manuals, plus direct contact with the programmer so if bugs found to be immediately removed and software updated.

The way it is now, its better bought directly from China for 160 euros shipping included.

[JAZZCNC]

Ok got one of these on it's way I'll torcher it to death then jump in with my two penny's worth.!!!

[Gary]

We have not stopped selling ballscrews, but we are discontinuing the C7 range and this is not because we cant compete, its more to do with stocking both C7 and C5 is a logistical nightmare and requires a lot of stock holding.
There is big difference in the ballscrews we offer and what you find on the Chinese market, all of the dirt cheap Chinese ball screws are the rejects from TBI or other manufactures (Not meeting C7 lead accuracy, non complaint root diameter and a number of other issues) and are dumped onto the chinese market at near scrap value. We stopped selling the Chinese ballscrews and nuts due to these problems.

The ballnuts are made in china and that is why they fit them to the screws and if you need a new nut two years later, good luck, because you may need to reball it to fit correctly.

Regarding importing and selling the low cost controllers, i have absolutely no intention, till they are CE, have real documentation and some form of technical support.
Also what is important is that there is some money to be made from selling them and at the moment, we would only be able to sell them at a loss.
Adding them on a machine is another matter though.

Pete, Very grey area but controllers fall into the exempt area for lead free as they are controlling critical equipment unlike say a washing machine or radio.

However I know what you are saying.

Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.

Both Zapp and Arceurotade have stopped selling ball screws as everyone is going direct and it won't end there.
Arc is to stop selling drivers and steppers when the current stock has run out for the same reason.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Real life scenario today. Electricity stopped for a sec today, something with the fuse box or whatever. Flipped back the main interrupter at home, went to machine, hit "all go to 0" and after 3 min it was operational. It had not lost exact machine position .I had just to check if Z height is there correctly to be sure, as i have loaded 60 euro tool, All was there as it should be on place.

Went back to my PC to brag here about that. Mehh. 15 days in a raw , windows 10 attempts and fails to install updates. Read in internet, fixed registry, attempted manual update, fixed once, repeats with next updates without being able to fix. So in fact had to wait 10 min to update and 15 min to repair itself from inability to update. So half an hour later was operational. And have in mind that it does that twice a day and does not let me postpone or disable automatic update.On my pc. The one who invented that feature is N1 in my bad person list

Meanwhile machine was working at least half an hour doing steadily its job. For that time it made 6 parts . You tell me now what are you conclusions. I am not trying to convince anybody here.




Some people ask me on Youtube about macros. I dont know anything but lets see what the controller has in its memory. There is a file called "probe"

here is what "probe" is made of:

G04P0;ÔÝÍ£0s£¬ÎªºóÐø³ÌÐòÕýÈ·¶ÁÈ¡µ±Ç°»úе×ø±êλÖÃM5 ;¹Ø±ÕÖ÷Öá
(¶ÁÈ¡µ±Ç°µ¶¾ß»úе×ø±êλÖÃ)
#20=#864
#21=#865
#22=#866
IF#571EQ0GOTO1;Åбðϵͳ²ÉÓù̶¨Î»ÖöԵ¶Ä£Ê½»¹Êǵ±Ç °Î»ÖöԵ¶Ä£Ê½
(¹Ì¶¨¶Ôµ¶Ä£Ê½Ï£¬Çó³öX¡¢Y¡¢ZµÄ½ø¸øÁ¿)
#1=#572-#20
#2=#573-#21
#3=#574-#22
GOTO2
(µ±Ç°¶Ôµ¶Ä£Ê½Ï£¬X¡¢Y¡¢Z½ø¸øÁ¿ÇåÁã)
N1#1=0
#2=0
#3=0
(Òƶ¯µ½¶Ôµ¶³õʼλÖÃ)
N2G91G00Z#3
G91G00X#1Y#2
(ÒÔ100ËÙ¶ÈÏÂ̽100mm¼ì²â¶Ôµ¶ÐźÅ)
N1M101
G91G01Z-100F100
M102
G04P0;ÔÝÍ£0s
#402=#400;±£´æ×ø±êϵZÖáÁãµãÆ«ÖÃ
#403=1;ÉèÖÃ×Ô¶¯ÐÞÕý×ø±êϵ±êÖ¾
#404=-#870;±£´æ¶Ôµ¶¿éºñ¶È£¬Èç¹û֮ǰ¶Ôµ¶¿éºñ¶È²ÎÊýΪ0£¬Ïµ ͳ½«²ÉÓøñäÁ¿ÐÞÕý¶Ôµ¶¿éºñ¶È²ÎÊý£¬ÒÔÍê³ÉµÚÒ»´Î¶Ôµ¶
G91G01Z#575F#578;¶Ôµ¶Íê³É£¬ZÖá»ØÍË

I think that is Chinese, thats why the strange characters. So obviously things could be done



Also there is a file called "eng" which contains the specific machine settings, which could be altered on PC, loaded to say 100 controllers, if you a fitting it on a same machine. Which is great, so you don't have to program by clicking 100 controllers


inside its something like that:

&&#5 -t1 -s1"minimum log radius of 4axis machining" -s2"mm" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=999.999
#6 -t2 -s1"A axis rotate reference axis" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=3.000 -i0"X axis" -i1"Y axis" -i2"Z axis" -i3"not rotate"


#104 -t2 -s1"A axis optimal path when G0 run" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"No" -i1"Yes"


#34 -t1 -s1"X axis pulse equivalency" -s2"pulse/mm" -m2 -min=50.000 -max=99999.000
#35 -t1 -s1"Y axis pulse equivalency" -s2"pulse/mm" -m2 -min=50.000 -max=99999.000
#36 -t1 -s1"Z axis pulse equivalency" -s2"pulse/mm" -m2 -min=50.000 -max=99999.000
#37 -m0
#38=1280 -t1 -s1"A axis pulse equivalency" -s2"" -m0 -min=50.000 -max=999999.000
#39=0 -t2 -s1"A axis pulse unit" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"pulse/deg" -i1"pulse/circle"
#40=0 -t2 -s1"AB axis Selection" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"A axis" -i1"B axis"


#390 -t2 -s1"X axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#391 -t2 -s1"Y axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#392 -t2 -s1"Z axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#393 -t2 -s1"A axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"


#418 -t2 -s1"X axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#419 -t2 -s1"Y axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#420 -t2 -s1"Z axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#421 -t2 -s1"A axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"

[magicniner]

My CNC PC is W7, you'd need your bumps felt to think W10 is a good idea, I'd use Windows 10 if my intention was to develop an unreliable system to prove a negative, ditto unproven external controllers :-)
My CNC System mains supply is via a huge UPS, I bought it with no batteries for £40 and it now runs off a couple of external car batteries ;-)
I haven't had a job stop unexpectedly for 6 to 8 months, the last issue was a broken limit switch wire :D

I believe these boxes offer the huge advantages of not needing a PC/OS/CNC Software, new users will be able to buy one, connect it and simply use it - that's great! It will enable the "Maker Generation" without requiring them to read around the subject and understand their system before they use it.

Reliability improvements will be realised by the unwise and unwary who don't already follow best practice with existing PC/OS/CNC Software/Hardware solutions, all the required information is in the manuals and on the support forum sites, just waiting to be read,

- Nick

[Boyan Silyavski]

My CNC computer is win7 32bit. I was talking about my main PC.

I had before 2x 1500W HP UPS, one here at home, other in the garage. Well, i payed extra 30-35 euro per month on top of my bill . Sold them for good price / new one was 500euro/ and 2 years without UPS. 24 months x 30 euro =700 euro less money wasted last 2 years.


As i said i am proving nothing Nick, just telling you the story as it is. I live in year 2016, so i have win10 on all my PCs including the laptops, my phone is Edge7 and if i had the money i would have been driving Tesla. What i am saying is i like latest stuff. That's one of the reasons i hated Mach3. It made me keep that nasty winXP.