DDSCV1.1 3 and 4 axis offline motion controller

[John S]

I can see these controllers filling a niche market.
They are going to appeal to the home build user with one of a couple of machines. Probably smaller machines that don't need the bumph of having a PC and monitor connected.

As Jazz says you will still need a PC for doing programming but that doesn't have to be in the workshop.
The PC could even be a Mac running Fusion 360 and in this case that computer won't run the machine anyway.

As long as all you need is 3 + 1 axis, no slaved axis or provision for tool change then these will run fine. Especially if all you want to do is produce parts.

Anything else then at the moment the PC is king but this will change as does most things. Speaking with Art Fenerty the other week he mentioned that there have been issues with Mach 3 running on later computers not being able to read some of the system files as late machines don't use these files and they don't bundle them with them.
Not an insurmountable problem at the moment but it could be later on.

Mach 4 is a work in progress and it makes me wonder if it will ever be a plug and play program given that it can't stand on it's own and requires a 3rd party controller to run and Brian has no control over these.

Because my current area of interest is lathes and threading at the moment I have done a lot of research. With mach 3 CS Labs can thread, it's the only one that can but the thread always has a big run off groove which on small threads is not acceptable. They say Mach 4 if they do a plug in will be the same.

Mach 4 can now thread with the Pokeys 57CNC and Dan Maulch over in the States has literally spent 6 months of his life getting it to run. Why ?

Why hasn't this been done by Mach4 working with Pokeys and released by them?

This was one reason I went with the NEW990TD-b because it can thread straight out the box and was the best option for me.

Note the ME bit because we all have different agenda's.

There isn't one controller option out there be it PC or stand alone that ticks all the boxes. Eaach has it's own niche market and you have to look and see what you want and what's available.

These DSCV controller are cheap and they will fill a gap in the cheap end of the market, it's that simple but they won't do everything and if you can accept that and live with it then I can't see any problems.

[Ger21]

Mach 4 can now thread with the Pokeys 57CNC and Dan Mauch over in the States has literally spent 6 months of his life getting it to run. Why ?

Why hasn't this been done by Mach4 working with Pokeys and released by them?

I seriously doubt that Mach4 will be anywhere nearly as successful as Mach3 was. I don't think that Brian really knows what his customers needs are.
I bought a license two years ago, but haven't downloaded any updates in over a year. I've given up on it, after waiting over 5 years.
It's still far from finished, riddled with bugs, and dependent on 3rd parties, some of which don't exactly have a good track record.
Brian likes to say that he's been making parts with Mach4 for years, but the reality is that it's not usable for most, even after all this time.
It's also incredibly complex to setup and customize, which imo will be a support nightmare for them.
As of right now, it seems like most of their customers are beginners, who have never used Mach3, but by Mach4 because it's Mach3's replacement, so it must be better, right ?

Yes, I agree, that these controllers are great for people with low budgets, and basic needs.

But sorely lacking if you want to do any type of customization.

My eggs are now all in the UCCNC basket.
Developers that listen to their users.
Constant updates, quick bug fixes.
Nearly as flexible as Mach3, and getting better all the time.
Better motion than Mach3, especially at higher speeds.
The downsides?
No lathe support at this time.
No "Industrial" controllers, but is that really necessary? They were working on one a while ago, but put it on hold due to time constraints. Hopefully it will re-appear at some time.
http://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewto...=2&t=169#p1039

[magicniner]

I don't think that Brian really knows what his customers needs are.

It's a classic case of buying a company that could make you a fortune and killing support for your best product before you have anything new, that isn't broken, to sell.

He could make a really good start with a fully functional 4-axis product in exchange for a license fee rather than his current Subscription Vapourware Beta Testing Scheme :D

Brian has lost my custom, I bought Mach3 but won't be buying Mach4.

The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

- Nick

[Ger21]

the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

Yes, Imo, most people using (or attempting to use) Mach4 are not Mach3 users, but people that know Mach3 was used by everyone, and think that Mach4 must be better.

[m_c]

The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

But what support do you get with the Chinese controller?
.
I can kind of understand the direction Brian has taken NFS/Mach4.
Mach3 was ultimately developed by a hobbyist, for hobbyists, but it grew far bigger than anybody imagined, and was used for things Art has even admitted, he never even thought it would.
Brian on the other hand knows the potential of the industrial market, and he is providing that market what they want. A highly customisable solution with full support. In doing so I think it's fair to say he hasn't given the hobbyist market as much support as he could have.
Mach 4 is a better product than Mach 3, however it doesn't have anywhere near the same community or vendor support, and there are lots of other options available now that simply weren't when Mach 3 was the defacto hobbyist option.
Certainly now that KMotionCNC has a screen editor, I don't see me switching to Mach 4, but I'll still keep running my little probing machine on Mach 3, just for the Probe-It probing plugin.

[Ger21]

but I'll still keep running my little probing machine on Mach 3, just for the Probe-It probing plugin.

I believe that the author of the Probe It is porting it to UCCNC.

[m_c]

I believe that the author of the Probe It is porting it to UCCNC.

Not much use to me though, as my probing machine runs a KFlop+KStep with linear scales to close the loop, to get as much accuracy as possible. :-/
.
Ger, do you happen to know the Macro/program refresh rate for the UCNC software?
I know Mach3 is 10Hz, Mach 4 is fair bit quicker but depends on system load, and KFlop depends entirely on how you program it but can potentially be 90uS.

[Ger21]

UCCNC has 48 macroloops, which are similar to mach3's macropump. These apparently run independently, and can be any speed you want. There's an example in the manual for running at 20Hz. Apparently, the faster they run, the higher the CPU loading?
They don't mention the screen refresh, but it's independent of the macros, and appears to be much faster than mach3, as the DRO's are much smoother. The toolpath display is different, so hard to compare. But the entire interface seems much faster.

[Ger21]

According to Ron everyone left the workshop with a working lathe but only one person has posted since then about their machine and that was to say that due to issues with Mach 4 he couldn't get his machine running and so far it still isn't running.

Not one person posted a video? and Ron will not show a finished thread?

A friend of mine has one of those lathes, but hasn't had time to use it. Last time I talked to him, he said there were still issues with the speed control due to either the Pokeys or the speed control board they are using, from CNC4PC I think?

[John S]

But what support do you get with the Chinese controller?
.

.

A very good question and a very valid one.
This depends on controller.
If we are talking about the DSCV cheap controller then none, all the vendors want to do is take your money and pass the buck.
What will happen in time though is there will become a users self help forum or forums where people can share problems. This happens now over the internet with any product. I have just had problems with my central heating boiler and all the help came from outside of the manufacturer.

The more expensive ones like the 990 series is a lot better.
For a start these are not new. they have been used in China for the domestic market for 8 plus years so by now the rough edges should be missing ?

If you pay more and buy from Adtech or GSK then you can expect good support but that's why you pay more.

For most psrt it's not support but understanding the controller.
In my case on a couple of things I wasn't sure off, and the book was wrong but the edited copy is on the internet already, I went down to a CNC place local to me and got one of their guys to explain what was what.

He runs 3 machines, a Fanuc 21, a Haas and a DMG but even though they have three proprietary controllers they all work the same.

TBH I can see the support issues with these stand alones being far less than having to link a PC to a controller to an external controller and probably throw a conversion board into the mix.

The lathes at the CNC workshop has a PC of unknown vintage, Mach 4, Pokeys 57CNC controller and a box from arturo Duncan to connect it all up so when it doesn't work who do you go to ?
Dell / HP ?, Mach 4?, Pokeys?, or Arturo ?

All of whom just want to pass the buck.

Most people want to use a machine, not play with it and they want plug and play. As soon as two components get thrown into the ring it's not plug and play.

I bought a K-Flop a while ago as having been told it can do lathe which it can IF you are able to program in C++

So it stands on the shelf with the rest of the very expensive components that promise the earth but never deliver.