Advice on converting my VMC

[JAZZCNC]

I am not sure about what you say Dean. Part of me agrees, part of me thinks differently. I am not defending anything here, just my cold reasonable thoughts /of a traitor who sometimes out of frustration is secretly working for the enemy /

Not quite sure what your meaning here with words like Traitor.?

This is how i am thinking.I am just proposing.Anyone should decide for himself. Only the facts:

-you can not skip machine setup with either controller

-that mr H. or sb else has made his machine ATC work with Mach3 or 4 is Not = support from sb if you start going the same way. Even if someone that knows will have the desire to help you, these people are busy, so lack of time will make that impossible.

No it doesn't and how can you say that. I've helped many many people and know of others that do all with differing experience levels. Many of them on this forum you included. How the hell did you get started.? ? ? . . . I'll tell you With help from others.

I have still fresh memories about 2x expensive Galil boards in my possession,you know there is a plugin for them and Mach3. Even a support forum. fresh memories come to mind how nobody could help me when help was needed. So- No, don't rely to support or help if doing anything specific.

You bought an out of date controller that wasn't fully supported anymore. It's also controller that is aimed at Professional usage and as such expected the person fitting as required knowledge. So Again it's case or workman blameing the tools.!!

-an expert in Macros will have no problem programming any controller or software and making an ATC work.

Exactly the users isn't an expert and those with the skills don't often give it away for free. So your cheap controller suddenly isn't so cheap or easy.!

-Windows is crappy, PC even a cheap one could become quite expensive when starts to waste your time. Especially if you value it. You need right away to change the disk to a flash drive to avoid reliability problems, reinstall windows and so on,

-exchanging a dead controller is 1/2 hour. changing a PC-combo could take days . I know that for a fact, even that i am a Pc geek. What about the people that are not?

Complete rubbish on both accounts. PC's are very reliable these days and if correctly backed up simple to restore. Also any PC controlling machinery should be dedicated PC and will be minimal re-install if required at all. Also doesn't need to be high end PC when used with decent motion controller so no great expense required.

- i am sure the user database on the Chinese controllers is much bigger in volume than any typical one or even the whole Mach user database. These controllers are sold in the millions and i know that for a fact. Its known for a fact that they are fitted on ATC machines, have seen enough videos on the net and that some companies silently retrofit them here in Europe.

Ok well then go find me somebody who's very competant and willing to freely share there knowledge of these controllers.? The simple truth is you won't or can't because while many maybe fitted to industrial machines they won't give there hard learnt expensively come by knowledge away. Even if they would share it they will charge hefty price for it.

-if you hire sb from west expect >50-60 per hour for that job. I know at least of a couple of companies that could sell you the controller a bit more expensive but know what they are doing and speak English. So presale questions could be asked and even they could do the heavy lifting with the ATC setup.

Yes so do I and sure just about anyone on here could find company to do this but then it's not DIY is it. May have well just gone out and bought machine with controller fitted.
This is like comparing apples with oranges. Completely different things.

at the other hand:

-Chinese are extremely unreliable, cheat like monkeys, haggle like old gypsies and pretend to be dumb like donkeys. Like every other Asian they think they are superior to us - in trade, intelligence and cunning. Its a fact that any Asian is better in trade.

-Chinglish manuals are serious challenge to anyone's intelligence

-Chinese don't care what they sell here, they have enormous market

-Chinese don't have a hacking idea what we need, what functions are needed for DIY machine of any type or for a retrofit.

-Whatever they sell to us they seriously overcharge for it compared to their real price for Chinese market and meanwhile having the self satisfaction that they are hacking us

Sorry Boyan but that's shamefull attitude. It's Disrespectfull and verging on Racist.
I've dealt with Chinise for many years both with CNC and other non CNC related business dealings and can tell you with hand on heart I've never been ripped off by one of them. Which can't say to be true by companys in EU.
I can also say I've never had supplier from Uk or EU send me unrelated gifts they are not trying to sell for free. I've had several such gifts from chinese sellers.!! . . . . Infact I'm drinking one of them Now.

Lets just say we are not going to agree on this one.!! . . I won't be replying to anything you post on this matter, I've said what's needed saying so don't waste your time and lets leave the OP thread alone.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Ok dokey. Will not say a word more here. Was just being helpful and Objective. Sorry for hijacking the thread. Was feeling the need to say my opinion on subject and respond to accusations or misinterpretation of my words, but just while there was somebody to listen to.

[Chaz]

Well, at least the OP now knows all the options ...

Seen your email JazzCNC?

[Proteus]

Chaz. Choose to look at it with a smile :-)
But in all honesty, a simple questions doesn`t require more than a simple answer

[Proteus]

Ok, so far i have to deside on the following options(all being Nema34 With original gearing ration and belted):
X/Y axis Option 1: KL34H260-42-8A Stepper Motor – 465 oz in 6A With KL-8070D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP from Automation Technologies
X/Y axis Option 2: KL34H260-35-4A Stepper Motor - 465 oz/in 3.5A With KL-8056D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP from Automation Technologies
X/Y axis Option 3: 34HS7840 Stepper Motor - 567oz/in 4A With DM860A Stepper motor driver 7.8A 256micsteps 24~80VDC from longsmotor666 (eBay)

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Z axis option 1 : KL34H295-43-8A Stepper Motor – 906 oz in 6.1A With KL-8070D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP from Automation Technologies
Z axis option 2 : KL34H260-42-8A Stepper Motor – 465 oz in 6A With With KL-8070D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP from Automation Technologies
Z axis option 3 : 34HS9805-37B2CNC Stepper Motor 880oz-in 2A 8wires With DM860A Stepper motor driver 7.8A 256micsteps 24~80VDC from longsmotor666 (eBay)

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A/B 4&5 axis cradle : Belt driven og geared Down Nema 23 465-650 oz/in with KL-8056 or DM860A Drivers that will be decided later.

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Controller Option 1 : CSMIO/IP-S 6 axis Ethernet Motion Controller (STEP/DIR)
Controller Option 2 : C11 – R9.6S751-9 6 axis, Multifunction CNC BoB with Relay and Spindle Control
Controller Option 3 : Suggestions ?

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Considering the old Nema34 steppers delivered (a stunning ) 212,4oz/in, the new steppers will deliver twice as much for X/Y and even mor for the Z axis.
The new drivers will all be compatible with new controllers and Mach3 or 4, deliver a bit more cirrent, AND will have microstep option.

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I have 3 questions i was hoping i could get some quick reply on before i purchase these parts.
1. Will C11 handle 6 (in reality 5) axis at the same time when 3D milling parts on my 4&5th axis cradle considering the BoB itself, and the fact that it utilizes the parallel port?
I mean, the CSMIO/IP-S is NOT cheap(for a good reason) at nearly 5X higher price compared to C11.
However i do want to utilize my ATC in time(which the C11 can`t handle without a PLC). Both will handle my existing DC milling motor and driver

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2. Any good reason why i shouldn`t by from longsmotor on eBay instead of Automation Technologies Inc ?
My brief experience with Automation Technologies is very positive, but my impression is that longsmotor seemingly delivers good quality and service. AND somewhat lower price.

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3. Should i keep my existing 220VAC/60-18-12VAC tranformer or og for a solution with tripple 24V/8.3A Switching CNC Power Supply, or dual 48VDC/12.5A Switching CNC Power Supply.
Have no idea about the Power output from the existing Torodial PS, but if they did the job when constructing the VMC, it should be able to handle the drivers at max 5 Amps.
That should be 60Vac x 5Amp x 3 drivers = 900W +10% = Approx 1000W. Could try loading it to find max current at axeptable voltage drop, but thta would mean a powerful regulator should be used.
Keeping it at 24V with New PSU means lower noise and should perhaps be considered.

-*-

Appreciate swift advice and suggestions gentlemen.

(By the way, old bearly used and functioning electronics and motors will be sold if anybody should be interested).

[Proteus]

Sorry about the messy layouts Gents.
Tryed to get some spacing between the paragraphs, and not quite used to this editor yet.

And i came across the HiCon Integra6 axis Controller afterwards.
Any experience With this one anybody ?

[JAZZCNC]

Proteus you need to make it easier for us by giving links not just model numbers. We could search etc but then so easy to be looking at wrong stuff then be at cross purposes. Also me personaly I've not got time to sit searching for you.

Looking at what you wrote then If it's the board I'm thinking then your mistaking what the C11 board does.? It's Just Breakout board and does nothing but route signals along with few relays and spindle control. You'll still need motion control card.
The Cslabs IP-S is everything in one package and much higher quality so can't even be compared.

Provide links and I'll gladly look at these for you but I suggest you back off buying anything until you know what your buying.!

[Proteus]

My apologies Jazzcnc. I assumed most of you guys knew these steppers and drivers already. My fault.
I do know the difference between the C11 and the CSMIO/IP-S. Just tryed to reduce cost. Besides i was curious about your experience with the DM860A drivers
and 34HS9805 steppers from Longs-Motors vs European or US "made" drivers and steppers.(Link below).
Did take a look at the Hicon Integra as well, but i have already decided on the CSMIO/IP-S. It`s more expencive, but it pays off in the long run.
As for drivers, i have 3 KL-8056D drivers in house and will make use of them. As for steppers, i have chosen 3 KL34H260-35-4A.
These are 3,5Amps 465oz.in steppers and 5,6Amp(peak) drivers. Will choose 2(maybe 3) x 24Vdc/8,3Adc Switch mode PSU to keep noise down.
I do beleive i will have a good system with this choice, but please feel free to comment if you see something wierd :-)
Links:
KL-8056D driver: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...nk-is-included
KL34H260-35-4A stepper: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...nk-is-included
Hicon Integra: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...ler-industrial
KL-201-24 PSU: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...pply/kl-201-24
DM860A driver: http://www.longs-motor.com/productin...12_80_137.aspx
34HS9805 stepper: http://www.longs-motor.com/productin...12_25_120.aspx