Interesting - thanks guys I will call them.

Ref the vice, the reason I dont want to drop 500+ on one is I have such little Z height I wont be using for most jobs, as I plan on using alu fixture plates for most of the stuff (as I will be doing very small batches) so it sucks to drop so much on something that is there just for the odd adhoc job.

Yes its a drill press vice - wasn't aware that made a difference? Just wanted something low profile for a decent ££ - imagined it would at least have a flat bottom